67 68 Convertible Wanted

[69ISH]

http://www.mustang.org.au/forum/index.php/topic,22759.0.html

link above is t the for sale Ad of the blue car.

[daddywalrus]

Here is an update on proceedings so far.

I have been in contact with Classic Speed. I emailed them and they responded within hours. We then bounced some emails back and forth with comments, ideas questions. I have since filled out their build sheet and they will be generating a costing on my wish list soon. I guess I will see the result within this week.

My first impressions are that they are good at communicating and respond quickly. Every question asked is responded to and not forgotten. My initial feeling is that some of the customisations I am looking for are probably not going to be able to be accommodated. I think that they have been doing their thing for some time and found their comfort zone, and asking them to work outside that comfort zone may not be possible. This is not to say they would not be able to do what I am asking, I am sure they would be, but because I am asking for an independent rear suspension and a coyote motor with possible shock tower delete these are A: using vendors they don't already use and they would prefer to use their own, current vendor base (working outside their vendor base and installing items they don't usually install would mean they could not guarantee providing warranty) and B: Could raise potential compliance/registration problems when importing and registering in Australia. Fair enough, both issues are completely valid. Therefore I am taking a compromise and sticking with their current engine supplier with a traditional windsor block. They will supply fuel injection but still retain the traditional distributor/points with an MSD ignition. This is not what I really wanted (I wanted one coil pack per cylinder and an electronic ignition like the modular engines have) but I'm not going to rock the boat. This will also mean no shock tower delete necessary so less potential issues with "modifications" when trying to import and register in Qld.

On pricing, I can feel it in me waters that it is going to drop out somewhere around 140K USD. At current exchange rates that's close enough to 195K AUD. Along with delivery, LCT, GST and whatever the hell else I think it is going to end up becoming a 210 to 220K AUD project once on the road in Australia. That said, I think this option is starting to out-price its effectiveness. Perhaps three years ago when exchange was closer to 1.00 this option could have been effective. However now with exchange at 0.72, I am struggling to see how this is going to be the cost-effective option. If the cost was more like 100 to 110K USD at current exchange rates, perhaps I could see the value as landed, on-road cost would be more like 170K AUD, but knowing what I want, I think there is no chance of the final price dropping out at 100 to 110K USD. 

I have also had some emails with Layne at Restored Classics in Brisbane. His communications have been good, quick to respond, answering questions, giving comments etc. Today I also had a long phone call with him so we could learn more about each other, my ideas, the project etc. I feel confident with what I was able to learn from what his business is doing today, where it has come from, what he personally has come from. He seems to be a very likeable character. I was happy to learn they don't get involved in smash/insurance or general work like this. All in all I get the feeling his business is more of a personal affair and something driven by passion, not just a bottom line. He has a team of three so with him at the helm that is four people working on projects. He farms out some of the services within the project to other providers, so in his words they are doing project management in ways. No conclusive statements have been made about costs, except to say my wish list and assumed costs (which I made in an earlier post) didn't seem out of the ordinary. We have committed to continue to communicate in the coming weeks to generate a build list, plan etc, and from there perhaps get closer to understanding costs. He has done IRS and Coyote's before and getting them successfully registered in Qld so no issues there. I will visit him for a face to face when I am in Brisbane in three weeks time.

I have not had any response at all from RestoMod Performance in Melbourne off the back of my email I sent them last week. I have just sent them a message from their "contact us" page. Let's see if that works. I hope they will respond because it would be good to visit them when I am in Melbourne in three weeks.

I had a phone call with Ervin at Roadster Shop in Chicago. After some brief discussions I think these guys are going to be well out of my price range. Some of the builds mentioned are in the order of 250 and 300K USD all up. I just can't justify such a budget.

My trip to US next week for work now has me routing through Dallas. I was hoping to get a stopover by an additional day so I could try and visit some builders in Dallas/Fort Worth area, but it seems this may not be possible. Does anyone have any suggestions for good builders in this area? Perhaps I might get lucky and can delay the return flight for 24 hours? Oh and I will also be in Miami for a few days, so any builders in this area would be good to know if any of you have any opinions.

My gut feeling for now is Classic Speed is going to out-price themselves. An Australian based builder will (due to exchange rates) likely be able to do a better job for the same (or less) coin, have a better chance of getting compliance on the exact drive train I want and with less unknowns (and give me a better chance of follow up if things don't go my way). Roadster Shop in Chicago is beyond my budget and until I have some more options to investigate in the US then I still don't know if the US idea is out or not.

Cheers.

[teacherspet]

Going by what I know about Layne, I would be getting him to build the car. He has a great reputation for building real nice cars. As for Classic Speed, for that sort of money you could buy something far far better  & much more desirable than a mainstream Mustang convertible. 

[daddywalrus]

Going by what I know about Layne, I would be getting him to build the car. He has a great reputation for building real nice cars. As for Classic Speed, for that sort of money you could buy something far far better  & much more desirable than a mainstream Mustang convertible. 

What's your idea of far better and more desirable?

[scedd1]

Dont forget to contact Classic Recreations. I believe they have built a couple of cars for OZ customers, so would be up to speed on our import requirements.

[daddywalrus]

Dont forget to contact Classic Recreations. I believe they have built a couple of cars for OZ customers, so would be up to speed on our import requirements.

scedd1 Thank you for the tip. Will do!

[Dwayne]

Scott66, Thank you very much for this information and link. I will try and get my hands on a copy of that issue. That 69 Boss 302 definitely looks like my cup of tea, but just pull back a few years and make it convertible and I'll be in heaven.

I will also get into contact with Restomod performance in Melbourne. I will be in Melbourne for work in two weeks (and get there a few times a year) so it will be easy enough for me to use a builder in this location for this project.

Thanks!

Street Machine's facebook page had the full article on this car a couple of days ago.

[daddywalrus]

Street Machine's facebook page had the full article on this car a couple of days ago.

Just found it....

http://www.streetmachine.com.au/features/1605/restomod-performance-1969-ford-mustang-fastback-boss-302/

[daddywalrus]

Just finished reading the article. I can't really tell from the pics, but I think I would be wanting a little bit better fit and finish for a 200 - 240K project like this.

Also it is interesting to see they sourced a second hand transmission. I would have thought for the budget they could buy new?

Oh well, they gotta make a buck somehow I guess. They aren't there just to perform a charity for me and my dreams...

[teacherspet]

What's your idea of far better and more desirable?

Seriously, if you have that much money to sink into one car, why not buy 2 or 3 that will, down the track, have better investment value. You could have a coupe, convertible & a fastback & still have change to build a nice shed to store them in.

[unilec5544]

If it was me, I would be looking for a decent mustang vert first and then while you are enjoying the car now, then look into upgrades. Fitting a late model Falcon XR8 drive line into the car will make an awesome car.

[daddywalrus]

Seriously, if you have that much money to sink into one car, why not buy 2 or 3 that will, down the track, have better investment value. You could have a coupe, convertible & a fastback & still have change to build a nice shed to store them in.

I know I don't have 200 to 240K to spend on such toys.

I am grimacing at the thought of spending 150 on something as it is. This amount is already beyond what I was wanting to spend.

[teacherspet]

I know I don't have 200 to 240K to spend on such toys.

I am grimacing at the thought of spending 150 on something as it is. This amount is already beyond what I was wanting to spend.

Go onto the carsales.com website & have a look at all the Mustangs they have for sale, put the ones you like into your watch list (you have to open an account) be prepared to do a bit of travelling or you could contact MOCA members if you see anything that takes your fancy in another state. My '66 convertible was imported from the US in 2014 just before the AUD went south & my '641/2 coupe was bought through carsales. If I was to ever buy another Mustang it would definitely either be through carsales, or by contacting MOCA as it is just so much more convenient & there are a lot of decent cars to choose from. Most importantly, do not rush into buying a car until it is thoroughly checked out as there are a lot of "polished turds" out there also. Good luck!

[daddywalrus]

Go onto the carsales.com website & have a look at all the Mustangs they have for sale, put the ones you like into your watch list (you have to open an account) be prepared to do a bit of travelling or you could contact MOCA members if you see anything that takes your fancy in another state. My '66 convertible was imported from the US in 2014 just before the AUD went south & my '641/2 coupe was bought through carsales. If I was to ever buy another Mustang it would definitely either be through carsales, or by contacting MOCA as it is just so much more convenient & there are a lot of decent cars to choose from. Most importantly, do not rush into buying a car until it is thoroughly checked out as there are a lot of "polished turds" out there also. Good luck!

teacherspet, yeah have been looking on there. There are certainly some nice examples from time to time.

The problem I have is that I can't really take possession and start on the project until another 18 months or so from now. Also knowing the kind of person I am, I'm always going to be picky and choosy by not being satisfied that what I find already in the marketplace satisfies all angles of my idea of the perfect car. For example, the colour I want is a non-factory colour, so I know I'm not going to find one the exact perfect colour. But then I will find one with perhaps woodgrain panelled dash, which I don't want, or an auto trans, which I don't want, or LHD, which I don't want. The list could go on, but I am probably going to start saying to myself "why buy something I know I already think is not perfect?".

I know this makes me selfish, and perhaps it doesn't bode well with some of the members on the forum. Perhaps some would read my comments and think "Don't be such an ungrateful so and so, half the fun is the rebuilding, the maintenance, the customising to make it exactly how you want it". I appreciate that position, but as per my previous comments I get most enjoyment from the using of the perfect final product, the looking and gazing and gushing over what it looks like at the end of the line. Fortunately for me, being later in life I do have a few more dollars than in my youth. No, I don't have 200 to 250K to spend on this project, but I think I would be happy to spend 100 to 150. Considering I want the result and not the journey, I understand and agree with you that your suggestion is logical and will help me save money in the long run whilst also being able to do things along the way to build towards the final dream as more money comes along each month, but I just don't have the facilities, abilities or time to be doing so in the next 18 months. Sure, I would love to have the facilities, abilities and time, but I'm poor on those things for the foreseeable future.

All these thoughts are what leads me in the direction of "Get someone else to do it, to my desired spec, and hope for an 18 to 24 month from now delivery date".

Thank you for your comments, it definitely gives me food for thought. I really appreciate everyone's input here.

[teacherspet]

I hear what you are saying. I have had my convertible for just over 18 months & have only driven it once as it is a work in progress & something for me to tinker with, whereas the reason I bought the coupe was that the hard work had already been done so I could enjoy it straight away. I guess I am lucky I am retired & have plenty of time to tinker with my cars & I also have a reasonable amount of mechanical knowledge having spent most of my younger years (& money) doing up various cars. When the convertible arrived back in 2014 it had a few minor issues which we fixed but then I decided that while it was pulled apart I would take it up a couple of levels & tipped a whole bunch of money into it. It is now a much nicer car & about 95% complete so hopefully I should get it on the road within the next couple of months once I get around all of my other distractions.
Having said that, have a solid plan about what you want to do with your car & how much you are prepared to spend otherwise it gets out of control very quickly. I spent a lot of time on Google looking at images of 1965/'66 Mustang convertibles to get an idea on how I wanted my car to look & I am happy to say that I achieved my objective. There is an absolute wealth of knowledge on this forum site & the people who frequent it are very personable so someone will always give you their 2 cents worth (except for Barnett where his knowledge in measured in $USD) 

[SXTY8]

I can understang where you're coming from. 100 to 150 grand is a lot of money for most people to spend on a car, so if I were in your position I would make sure that the car was everything I wanted and didn't need more money spent on it.
I still reckon you could find a RHD 5 speed manual convertible out ther in the $50K range and then spend another $80 - $100K changing everything else on it that you don't like. Aftermarket fuel injection and MSD ignition would go a long way to making it a reliable every day driver, and a good paint job in the colour of your choice would only be about 20 grand.

[teacherspet]

I can't see what the problem with carburettors is. I would much rather have an old school car with an old school engine than muck around with fuel (fool) injection & computers. It just keeps things nice & simple in my opinion. I would dare say that unless it is a later model Mustang, most of the members would have the original type of engine that came with their car & not having any, or very little, problems whatsoever with reliability. Correct me if I am wrong.

[67fasty.sm]

if was to spend that much kanga i would get a nice early model driver and order a brand new one cause , at the end of the day its still an old car with new bits can see the sense in that much on a build and wouldnt pay that anyway .

[R_Beckhaus]

I can't see what the problem with carburettors is. I would much rather have an old school car with an old school engine than muck around with fuel (fool) injection & computers. It just keeps things nice & simple in my opinion. I would dare say that unless it is a later model Mustang, most of the members would have the original type of engine that came with their car & not having any, or very little, problems whatsoever with reliability. Correct me if I am wrong.
[/quote
Is it just me or isthe throttle rsponse better with a carb.?

[SXTY8]

I can't see what the problem with carburettors is. I would much rather have an old school car with an old school engine than muck around with fuel (fool) injection & computers.

The thing is, I have half a dozen Honda bikes from the late seventies and early eighties. The carby ones take a bit of starting if they've been sitting for a while, but I have 2 fuel injected turbo bikes (82 and 83 models) that can sit for a couple of months and all I have to do is turn the key and press the starter button and they start instantly and idle straight off.

[daddywalrus]

I think it also comes down to whether or not I really see this as a long term proposition.

If I think I am going to take this thing in, enjoy it, love it, and in 10 years from now still be as happy and nostalgic as what I am today, then it could be a worthy 'investment'.

If I were to buy a brand new cayman for 160k, how much could I get for it in 5 years? 70K? If I spend the same coin on this project, would I also only get 70k in 5 years? Probably. However I reckon in say, 20 years I could still get decent money for the mustang at that time. The Porsche would be a little worn and tired and close to the scrap heap by then (not to mention the money it cost in the meantime).

What am I going to get more enjoyment from?

Option 1
Buy new mustang now, 80k. In five years sell it for 30k. Lose 50K.
Then get the latest one at that time, 90k. Sell it five years later for 30K.
Then again buy the latest one for 100K. Sell it five years later for 30k.
In this plan, I would have lost about 180k on cars in around a 15 year period and own the latest of three generations along the way. I am sure the owning and enjoying would surely make me happy.

Option 2
Buy 'new' 67 mustang now, 180K. In 15 years sell it for what, 50k? Or drive it until I die? Do any of us really adhere to the "I promise it will be the last car I ever own"...???
In this plan, I would have lost about 130 on cars in the same period of time. BUT, I will have only owned the classic in all that time, not the latest three generations.

To help try and work out which way to go, perhaps I should also consider the phase of life I am in and what I am going to be able to afford, in time. Right now I earn good $. I can foresee that in a few years my income will be scaled back greatly. At that time, will I still have the money to spend on cars? Will I want to? Sure, I could take the argument that if I have 180 to spend now, just put 100 in the bank to wait for the next phase of life and the next purchase and still get a shiny new 2016 model right now for 80K which will happily see me through the next 5 years.

I don't know what to do, I really don't.

BUT, maybe that in itself is an answer?. If I REALLY was so totally passionate about something wouldn't I just say "I don't care what it costs, its what I WAN'T so that's what I'm going to have". Problem is, I can't say I REALLY want a 2016 GT either, but that's because they don't sell the V8 convertible in manual (and don't tell me it's not possible, because it's sold that way in the US).

Part of me also wants to be realistic about not being a greedy pig, and also getting value for money. However that sense of wanting value also only goes so far. For example if I think the perfect 67 convertible dream is going to cost 180, but I found some way of getting it for say, 100 to 120, I would probably jump right on it and never look back. But if I found out I could get a 2016 GT for say, 35K driveaway, I probably wouldn't even bother even though its half price.

Decisions, decisions...

[GLENN 70]

Sounds like you want like a guy built in QLD some years back ..  This guy built a 69 I think  ?  fastback  and grafted the body onto a BA I think  sedan complete ,motor box ,floor pan well the whole bloody thing    . Looks like a classic mustang but is not one only looks like one . 

[nhmustang]

Never buy a car as an investment (only if you had the chance to buy an old Ferrari years ago). Whenever I buy a car, I know that money is just gone. If I sell later on and get some money back that's a plus. A bit hard to look 5, 10, 15 or 20+ years down the track with the way governments in the west are embracing socialist authoritarianism. The car as we know it will be politicized out of existence!

If you have the money now just buy the one that puts the biggest smile on your face. Don't worry about it's worth in 10+ years time as our overlords will probably have found a way to take it from you by then!

[daddywalrus]

Never buy a car as an investment (only if you had the chance to buy an old Ferrari years ago). Whenever I buy a car, I know that money is just gone. If I sell later on and get some money back that's a plus. A bit hard to look 5, 10, 15 or 20+ years down the track with the way governments in the west are embracing socialist authoritarianism. The car as we know it will be politicized out of existence!

If you have the money now just buy the one that puts the biggest smile on your face. Don't worry about it's worth in 10+ years time as our overlords will probably have found a way to take it from you by then!

I hear ya! And no point leaving the money to my super fund because that will be all but gone if the govt has its way.

I'm beyond smiling. My yardstick is what is it going to take to get weak at the knees and break down and cry when I see it, touch, drive it, feel it, hear it, smell it. I reckon a brand new car with some mods is going to make me smile ear to ear. But a classic with the right bits has the potential to bring tears to my eyes.

[Dwayne]

Could get a new supercharged mustang and a bag of onions.