Author Topic: Do you have to degree a new cam ? (Read 489587 times)

barnett468 · « **Reply #1525 on:** May 13, 2016, 05:57:50 am »

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Hey Fitzy, I just had an epiphany . We need to determine how big the chokes inside your carbs are . This is metal insert that determines the actual size/cfm of your carbs . Since everything else on this thing has been so fkd up, I'm guessing they left the original ones in that came with the carbs . If so, they are likely too small for your engine . If they are smaller than they should be, you will actually have decent throttle response and performance in the lower rpm range which you seem to have now, however, they will reduce peak rpm and peak power . This is fine for a street engine, however, since you have a "race" engine and you do "race" the car, you would be better off with the larger chokes providing you rev the engine to the max rpm frequently like a real race car driver would.

If you change these you may need to rejet the carbs . We won't know until you actually do it however, but if you o, it "shouldn't" be a problem getting them jetted correctly.

barnett468 · « **Reply #1526 on:** May 13, 2016, 10:18:49 am »

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ok xlnt . this will only take two minutes.

take a bronze spring and a copper spring and pull them apart slightly to see which is stonger.

the lighter colored spring "should" be lightest.

remove both silver springs from distributor

install two metal limiters with no paint as shown in the photo below after putting a tiny tiny bit of heavy grease on the back side of the bent tab where the advance weight will contact them . position them to look like the photo below.

install just one of the silver springs you removed.

install the lighter spring in place of the other silver spring.

you should now have one silver and one bronze or copper spring and two limiters

set idle timing to 280, not 282.

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barnett468 · « **Reply #1527 on:** May 13, 2016, 11:10:48 am »

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I just noticed that your webers are not new so i hope you knew that.

Fitzy1980 · « **Reply #1528 on:** May 13, 2016, 12:46:52 pm »

Quote from: barnett468 on May 13, 2016, 11:10:48 am

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I just noticed that your webers are not new so i hope you knew that.

Say what now ?

Fitzy1980 · « **Reply #1529 on:** May 13, 2016, 12:57:50 pm »

Quote from: barnett468 on May 13, 2016, 05:57:50 am

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Hey Fitzy, I just had an epiphany . We need to determine how big the chokes inside your carbs are . This is metal insert that determines the actual size/cfm of your carbs . Since everything else on this thing has been so fkd up, I'm guessing they left the original ones in that came with the carbs . If so, they are likely too small for your engine . If they are smaller than they should be, you will actually have decent throttle response and performance in the lower rpm range which you seem to have now, however, they will reduce peak rpm and peak power . This is fine for a street engine, however, since you have a "race" engine and you do "race" the car, you would be better off with the larger chokes providing you rev the engine to the max rpm frequently like a real race car driver would.

If you change these you may need to rejet the carbs . We won't know until you actually do it however, but if you o, it "shouldn't" be a problem getting them jetted correctly.

barnett468 · « **Reply #1530 on:** May 13, 2016, 01:04:29 pm »

Quote from: Fitzy1980 on May 13, 2016, 12:46:52 pm

Say what now ?

well, your idle mix screws are all chewed up so unless you did that, someone did it and it is pretty hard to chew them up like that unless its just the photo which i doubt . but hey, look on the bright side, they seem to work ok,

hey, you should be grateful its not your "thoroughbred" mustang some guy asked me about that im picking apart on another thread.

barnett468 · « **Reply #1531 on:** May 13, 2016, 01:05:15 pm »

Quote from: Fitzy1980 on May 13, 2016, 12:57:50 pm

Hey...don't shoot the messenger.

Fitzy1980 · « **Reply #1532 on:** May 13, 2016, 01:14:11 pm »

Quote from: barnett468 on May 13, 2016, 01:04:29 pm

well, your idle mix screws are all chewed up so unless you did that, someone did it and it is pretty hard to chew them up like that unless its just the photo which i doubt . but hey, look on the bright side, they seem to work ok,

hey, you should be grateful its not your "thoroughbred" mustang some guy asked me about that im picking apart on another thread.

Yes the first screw on no # 1 was all busted up. Made it a pita to turn it far enough to seat.

Fitzy1980 · « **Reply #1533 on:** May 13, 2016, 01:15:29 pm »

No 1

20160513_131057 by , on Flickr

No 2

20160513_131126 by , on Flickr

barnett468 · « **Reply #1534 on:** May 13, 2016, 01:25:33 pm »

SPARK PLUGS

Ok, Fitzy . the plugs look killer compared to what they were before and they should not load up providing you do not let it idle very long . Also, don't forget what I told you . You need to rev the crap out of it before you shift . Do not shift early and lug the engine . Even though it does run fine if you do that, it is not good for it as I previously mentioned.

The MSD box will clean them up even more.

They will also not get so black at idle after we use the Colortune.

After all this is done, we will try another set of the 5 heat range plugs and see how they look after a while.

JETTING

From what I can tell by the plugs and the new video, you may not need any jetting but the AFR meter will help determine that.

Here is what I had you do.

The timing test didn't work out too well because you don't have a tach and can't read your timing during the test, so I GUESSED at what it should be and had you set the distributor up so you now have the following and we will see if she blows . The total timing before this was around 46 at 3500 rpm.

It only idles smoothly with supposedly 20 thru 22 initial, so we will use that range . No audible difference in rpm between this range . Since it runs rough at idle with only 2 more degrees of advance above 22, I didn't want it advancing at all right off idle, and luckily Pertronix has springs that allowed us to delay the advance by a few hundred rpm which works out well since it already has 20 thru 22 initial.

363 ci
fast burn aluminum heads
236/240 @.050 cam
weber carbs

1 Silver and 1 Gold spring purportedly provides this much advance at the crank, but I will call Pertronix to verify since you can't check your timing.

2000 ......................... 6.5
2500 ....................... 11.5
2600 and above ........ 12.0

12 degrees max mechanical using plain limiters/stops

Final theoretical timing spec

base/idle ................ 20.0
2000 ...................... 26.5
2500 ...................... 31.5
2600 and above ....... 32.0

barnett468 · « **Reply #1535 on:** May 13, 2016, 01:40:43 pm »

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VALVE ADJUSTMENT

Before you drive it much you need to recheck the valve lash then properly torque the nuts . I do not know what they should be so I will have to call T&D.

ENGINE OIL

See how it looks . If it has a water leak you will see it by now.

Look at the inside of the valve covers when you check the valves.

barnett468 · « **Reply #1536 on:** May 13, 2016, 01:44:32 pm »

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Here's today's drive test,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdRtCIIzg6E&feature=youtu.be

Here's the test quiz with answers . I had him mash the pedal to the floor fast to see if it would hesitate or burble etc.

The cam is a stock billet steel Howards cam I had him get based on his info . The other cam was a "semi" custom cast iron cam selected by his professional engine builder.

ok . answer all these one at a time please.

1, Is that as far as it will rev?

No it will wind out further, just not the best stretch of road.

2. does it rev farther than the previous engine?

I think it will, feels really strong. New cam pulls a lot harder

3. is it faster, slower, or about the same as the last cam?

Definitely feels a lot quicker, as i said a longer drive on some different roads will help

4. do you like it better or worse than the other cam?

A lot better, night and day i think

5. how high did the water temp get?

Water temp was 170-180 never moved

6. how fast was that?

I didn't take much notice but would easily be 80km/h+ ( 50-60 mph)

7. how did it idle afterwards?

Idles ok, takes a little to settle down but was ok.

8. did you see any black smoke when you looked in the mirror?

Couldn't see any black smoke, it doesn't dump any black shit anymore on start up and doesn't smoke at idle either.

Fitzy1980 · « **Reply #1537 on:** May 13, 2016, 01:56:02 pm »

http://www.tdmach.com/05850.pdf

Part 3

Fitzy1980 · « **Reply #1538 on:** May 13, 2016, 01:59:09 pm »

Oil is perfect still very clean and no signs of water

barnett468 · « **Reply #1539 on:** May 13, 2016, 01:59:51 pm »

Quote from: Fitzy1980 on May 13, 2016, 01:56:02 pm

http://www.tdmach.com/05850.pdf

Part 3

Well unfortunately there is no such thing as 5/25 ft lbs.

"After all of the rockers have been tightened down, set valve lash and torque the adjuster screw jam nut to 5/20 ft-lbs."

barnett468 · « **Reply #1540 on:** May 13, 2016, 02:00:40 pm »

Quote from: Fitzy1980 on May 13, 2016, 01:59:09 pm

Oil is perfect still very clean and no signs of water

Thank God.

Fitzy1980 · « **Reply #1541 on:** May 13, 2016, 02:01:30 pm »

Quote from: barnett468 on May 13, 2016, 01:59:51 pm

Well unfortunately there is no such thing as 5/25 ft lbs.

"After all of the rockers have been tightened down, set valve lash and torque the adjuster screw jam nut to 5/20 ft-lbs."

Yeah thats what i thought, thats a big spread

barnett468 · « **Reply #1542 on:** May 13, 2016, 02:02:26 pm »

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I will send you my bill . I need a vacation.

Fitzy1980 · « **Reply #1543 on:** May 13, 2016, 02:06:23 pm »

Quote from: barnett468 on May 13, 2016, 02:02:26 pm

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I will send you my bill . I need a vacation.

You live in CA your life is a vacation..

Are we running with 22 lash hot same as cam card ?

I think we set it at 20 on assembly.

barnett468 · « **Reply #1544 on:** May 13, 2016, 02:48:23 pm »

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Quote from: Fitzy1980 on May 13, 2016, 02:06:23 pm

Are we running with 22 lash hot same as cam card ?

I think we set it at 20 on assembly.

'We" are not doin anything . You are on your own now.

If it was me, I would be happy with anything between .020" and .022" with the engine cold or mildly warm . I hate doing them when the engine is blazing hot.

They don't all have to be exactly the same . As long as they are within a tight .002" of each other or less it is fine in YOUR particular case.

Quote from: Fitzy1980 on May 13, 2016, 02:06:23 pm

You live in CA your life is a vacation..

I get tired of the clear skies, warm weather and hangin out at the beach and looking at girls wearing g strings.

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Fitzy1980 · « **Reply #1545 on:** May 13, 2016, 03:14:40 pm »

All over it..

Yeah looks like a tough place to live.

I have family that live in Trousdale, Beverly Hills. I feel sorry for them, they have it really, really rough up there..

barnett468 · « **Reply #1546 on:** May 13, 2016, 03:22:03 pm »

Quote from: Fitzy1980 on May 13, 2016, 03:14:40 pm

All over it..

Yeah looks like a tough place to live.
I have family that live in Trousdale, Beverly Hills they have it really, really rough up there..

Yeah, people think that just because the weather is great here 364 days of the year and you can surf in the morning and snow ski in the afternoon on the same day, that we have it made.

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