260 Windsor Rebuild

[birdman]

Additive is shit really, it fowls the plugs around town makes them idle rough, waste of time, I wont use it,anymore day to day and I tried it in many cars, Only time I put it in a car is for a high speed running. I dont see the point of not spending the money on hard seats, if you rebuilding it, I really don't, its just something less to worry about. I'm not sure why he dosn't want to do it.
It adds about $200 to the price of the job, its just silly.

Also      with shaunp

[birdman]

Compact while i do feel sorry for your lack of knowledge, which will come with time, youve really got to grow some balls mate.
once your engine is done you wont be his customer again nor on his Christmas card list. youre the one spending the money so act accordingly with all of the overwhelming advice.
i'll say it again, grow some balls son.   

Very true griff. I wonder what kind of warranty the builder will give our fellow member?

[griff]

his advice about the valve seats is seriously floored mate, it'd be game over for me.
i consider the advice given by some of the guys on this forum as top shelf and i havent seen anyone agree with your engine builder on this topic.
you cant see something is wrong with this?

[birdman]

his advice about the valve seats is seriously floored mate, it'd be game over for me.
i consider the advice given by some of the guys on this forum as top shelf and i havent seen anyone agree with your engine builder on this topic.
you cant see something is wrong with this?

True again griff,no one on here agrees with the builder. Then again we don't know who he really is.

[Ford Compact 1963]

his advice about the valve seats is seriously floored mate, it'd be game over for me.
i consider the advice given by some of the guys on this forum as top shelf and i havent seen anyone agree with your engine builder on this topic.
you cant see something is wrong with this?

I can griff but stuffed now

[birdman]

I can griff but stuffed now

Sorry that's the wrong attitude. You have the wallet so you (should) have the upper hand.

[birdman]

We are all trying to steer you in a forward direction not backwards!!!!

[barnett468]

I know I'm was hoping he would do it but said run 98 octane and additive and it will run forever ...

What is the EXACT NAME of the additive he told you to use?


aside from the incredibly bizarre suggestion to run additive instead of installing har seats the suggestion to run friggen rocket fuel that costs a zillion dollars a liter in a tiny box stock 260 ci engine that only has 160 hp is extremely suspicious to me . .the only logical reason in the world to do this is if your engine has a lot of compression . . the only reason your engine would have a lot of compression is if he milled the shit out of your heads . . the only reason to mill the shit out of your heads is if it has a huge cam and it has 300 hp but your engine does not have either of those things, so if it were me, i would ask him exactly what the cc [volume] of the heads is . . i would also ask him why he suggests you use rocket fuel instead of 95 octane like it should because  this is an extremely concerning issue.

if he is suggesting to use 98 because he thinks it will make the valves last longer, than simply ask him exactly why he thinks that, because in the usa, the higher octane would have absolutely no affect on the valves, so unless you have some incredibly shitty 95 octane, or some incredibly magical 98 octane, the only reason to do this is because he milled the shit out of your heads without telling you or asking you first, which i would consider a problem.

also, if he milled the shit out of your heads and did not 0 deck your block, this is shear incompetence and could explain why he says you need 98 octane.

Also, for him to knowingly use a cam that is bigger than stock and not pin the rockers like i said you should as insurance around 3 months ago shows that he is either negligent or simply has no experience with these engines because next to the valves getting burnt which is simple, natural wear, studs lifting in the heads is the NUMBER ONE problem with these engines.

[barnett468]

.
HERE'S SOME MATH

Ok one common lead substitute additive is from red line . . it is around $12.00 usd a bottle . . it is 12 us ounces . . it takes around 6 ounces per 10 us gallons so it costs you a little more than $6.00 usd every time you fill up.

Lets say your car gets an average of 12 miles to a gallon when combining both street and highway driving so that’s 120 miles per tank or per 10 gallons to be more specific.

250 us gallons or around 25 tanks of gas will get you 2,900 miles or 4,667 k's and cost you $150.00 usd which is around $200.00 aud which is how much shaunp said it “should” cost to have hard seats installed and he should certainly know.

So…after you use 25 tanks of gas, you could have had seats installed and not had to runs this shit thru your entire top end of you newly “rebuilt” engine.

Now…we are not done yet . . you now have to add the additional cost of the 98 octane vs the 95 and after doing that, you will likely have been able to pay for seats after maybe only 20 tanks of gas.

Now, I use 1 tank of gas every few days . . if you only use 1 tank of gas a month, you could have paid for the seats in a little over 1 ½ years but I’ll use 2 years to be generous . . now if say that you will keep the car for 10 years, then you simply multiply 8 years times 80 more tanks of gas at 6.00 for the additive plus the additional 1.50 per tank for the 98 vs the 95 octane to see that it will cost you around an additional $610.00 usd or $768.162 asd . . now, if you use MORE than 3/4 of a tank a month, the cost will increase proportionately.

perhaps if you mention this very simple 8th grade math formula to your builder, he will gladly reduce the price of your engine by that amount since it was his idea to do what he wanted and not what you, the paying customer, wanted.

I do believe I could nearly by me a lifetime supply of cold, tasty, fosters lager for $768.162 asd.

[boofhead]

    with Glenn
While I'm at it is he fitting a one piece rear main seal or two piece? If he (the builder) doesn't know how to fit the 2 piece seal properly it WILL leak.

He might be using a rope seal as per the original engine.

[barnett468]

He might be using a rope seal as per the original engine.

for some i am totally incompetent with those . . every single one i have ever installed has leaked . . i would really like to know how they did it at the factory.

[boofhead]

for some i am totally incompetent with those . . every single one i have ever installed has leaked . . i would really like to know how they did it at the factory.

Agreed. I am not sure you can purchase a new rope seal. I would pull the locating pin, fill the hole with RTV and install a two piece. I admit my comment was a little flippant - though it could be possible.

[GLENN 70]

The engine is built now guys ,so it is what it is .  He had enough advise about a rebuild ,in the end he left it to the engine builder ,so be it .  Yes I can't believe he didn't do the hardened seats for the heads and its not like you can buy leaded fuel anymore but , it must have come down to cost . Give the young guy a break and let him get the engine back into his car and go for a nice drive .  Just use the additive on long road trips and not on short in town driving .

[peter9231]

The engine is built now guys ,so it is what it is .  He had enough advise about a rebuild ,in the end he left it to the engine builder ,so be it .  Yes I can't believe he didn't do the hardened seats for the heads and its not like you can buy leaded fuel anymore but , it must have come down to cost . Give the young guy a break and let him get the engine back into his car and go for a nice drive .  Just use the additive on long road trips and not on short in town driving .

I agree Glenn,
This is becoming a joke to the point of bullying.
Back off people.

[Stimo]

  Well said Glenn.

[barnett468]

.
If you want to run an additive, the one below is the best, period . . There are no comparisons . . It does in fact contain real liquid lead called TEL . . TEL is the exact same chemical that they put in leaded gas to make it leaded . . It also has other octane boosters . . This will allow you to run at least 1 grade lower octane gas than you normally could.

I have no idea if its legal in oz.

http://www.overkillgarage.com/octane-supreme.html

[66 Stang]

I agree Glenn,
This is becoming a joke to the point of bullying.
Back off people.

  time to move on people.

[scollist]

aside from the incredibly bizarre suggestion to run additive instead of installing har seats the suggestion to run friggen rocket fuel that costs a zillion dollars a liter in a tiny box stock 260 ci engine that only has 160 hp is extremely suspicious to me .

Barnett - in Australia 98 is just your standard premium unleaded as we use the RON (Research Octane Number) - this is the equivalent of 93 on your side of the pond using the AKI rating (Anti-Knock Index).  So he isn't suggesting Rocket Fuel, and probably hasn't milled the heads too much.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating.

And yes I think that we should leave him with what he now has!

Cheers
Shane

[barnett468]

Barnett - in Australia 98 is just your standard premium unleaded as we use the RON (Research Octane Number) - this is the equivalent of 93 on your side of the pond using the AKI rating (Anti-Knock Index).  So he isn't suggesting Rocket Fuel, and probably hasn't milled the heads too much.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating.

And yes I think that we should leave him with what he now has!

Cheers
Shane

.
thanks for the info . . i actually use the chart below . . my the point is that all the windsors run just fine and dandy
with no pinging on us 91 octane which is generally equivalent to your 95 . . in fact, many can be run on 89 which is between your 92 and 95.

the static compression on his engine if it is bored .30 over is 9.1 which means that it will run in 100 degree heat on us 91 octane, therefore the builders recommendation for 98 which is us 93, is at least 1 grade higher than it needs to be and there s no benefit whatsoever from running higher octane gas than is necessary . . it wont hurt to do this but it wont help at all and in some cases, it can will reduce power depending on the brand of gas.

also the other point is that the additive the builder is recommending is going to increase the octane rating by at least 1 which means that even under the worst circumstances, he could easily run your 95 and this is why i  think he should have the builder tell him exactly what cc's the heads are . . If the builder did not measure the heads then it;s certainly more likely that he could run lower octane gas to save a few dollars.

Also, if his pistons have valve reliefs, his compression would e around 8.5 with un-milled heads and .030 over bore in which case he could easily run your 92 even without the booster which might save him around $3.00 a tank by itself . . That alone should be more than enough to buy liter of cold, tasty, fosters lager and get change back.


EURO RON    US (R+M)/2

. 90...................    85.9
. 92...................    87.8
. 95...................    90.7
. 96...................    91.6
. 98...................    93.5
100...................    95.5
105.................    100.2
110.................    105

[peter9231]

Just let it go Man let it go!!!!!

[Ford Compact 1963]

I want to say to all people involved that me and my father have appreciated all your advice and feedback and yes it was considered carefully. I had trust in builder and engine is now back with us and looks very well presented and documented. I will post pic and specs next day or two.

I'm honoured to be part of this club and the wealth of knowledge you guys have. Looking forward to the next journey of this build.

We all feel confident when we know what we are talking about and well I'm learning but like anything will get there..

 

[GLENN 70]

Every day we and you learn something new ,some know more than others and some don't ,that's life .  I am no mechanic and  have only learnt about cars  from listening to others and giving it a go by my self ,  as you are doing right now ,so good luck in the future . 

[Ford Compact 1963]

Hi Guys for all following here is a pic of engine after manifolds sandblasted and painted ceramic.The 260 is looking great dad and I are doing all the detailing bits of engine so more pictures to follow soon 

[barnett468]

.
yup, looks good and you will stay a lot cleaner putting it together . . just remember to put anti seize on the exhaust studs in case you ever have to take them off again . . i dont think you want to have the same prob you did removing them previously, lol.

did he break it i for you?

[mustang_talk]

Those exhaust manifolds looks great  mine are all rusted. It's good to see an after photo to compare. Cheers