Engine question and advice

[Pash]

Hey guys,

The sagar continues with my vibrating engine but I believe the light at the endo of the tunnel can be seen l!?! Well theres a few lights depending which one I go towards.

So on the weekend I pulled out the "302" engine and c4 out of my 67 convertible. I bought the car thinking it is a 289 original motor only to be shocked it's a 302. now I wasn't to worried a I was planning to stroke the 302 to a 347 and achieve about 400+ hp.

All was going good until I pulled one head off and measured the bore being 4.040 :( too big for what I want to do.

I'm sure I can source a virgin 302 somewhere but what I wanna know is it thebest option?
Maybe I should just drop a 351w in it. I'm chasing 400+ hp which I think is a great street occasional strip car.

Further to the choice of engine, legally what engine can I have in the stang with the new laws without an engineering cert. if anyone is more familiar with the new scheme and can provide some advice that will be greatly appreciated.

Oh and I need a new  block!!

[Ash]

With a 67 you could even put block in couldn't you? They came out with them from the factory so you should be able to do a conversion. I don't mean that's the way you should go, just that you have more options as the 67's came out with a wide range of motors.

I guess it would all come down to how much you want to spend and just how much you want to change. Dropping another 302 in means everything else you have will bolt straight on. Changing to a different block could mean different heads, intake, exhaust etc etc.

[Pash]

Thanks ash. What kind of a block.

My plan was with the 302 that I have To bore it to 4.030, probe forgies, scat crank, h beam eagles, alloy head, hedman extractors. Preped to spend 10k.

But now that I need a fresh block I don't know should I still stick with a 347 build or a 351.

67 mustangs only came with 289 or 390 where as the 68 came with the option of a 302.

So I'm more inclined to go 302 stroked.

Are the new modifying laws going impact putting In a motor that wasn't standard for the year model??

[Ash]

Sorry, typo, my fault. BIG BLOCK I meant (capitals because they are BIG, haha).

I'm sure someone here would be able to give you a definite answer on the new regs. Otherwise give the RTA (RMA?) a call on the tech line just to verify. You may get 3 different answers from 3 different mechanics, the RTA will be the definite answer on what you can and can't do.

[Ash]

Also, I have a mate with a 68 Fastback who was not questioned when he brought in his car and went through rego with a 351W.

[GLENN 70]

Not up to date with nsw laws,but a 351 should be no problem its less than factory fitted 390. Go with  351W , if you build a 347 a new block is a must,347 stroker 400 hp is easy but so is 351 /400 hp plus with std ford crank and rods .10 grand will just build a desent 347 ,and will build a 351 and auto .Dont use procomp parts .You will need to reco your c 4,fit shift kit and hi stall to make it right .Have a look in cars 4 sale at my engine combo .my 347 is 440 hp and had no problems .

[DUNRITE66]

forgive my ignorance on 67's but if they came out with a 390 then you should be able to put one in without engineers.... we have a couple at the shop which are ready for build to customers needs..... if it was me then there is no substitution for cubes.... go 390 and stroke it.... dont have to make big hp but you will have heaps of torque.... if you want the number to the shop to have a chat with Joe.... they are just finishing up a 390 in 69 fastback and a 347 in a 67 hard top.....

[GLENN 70]

I am a mustang guy and i say no to a big block in a mustang,they just dont fit nice,1st too heavy,2nd plugs are a night mare to get to,3rd extractors a real pain ,4th parts are very expensive .Big blocks drink  the juice .A 351 with say 400/430 hp just nice ,but extractors are a real pain in a 351w to get to the rear plugs on drivers side.Yes a big block stroker will make more power but you are only after 400/450 max. My 66 coupe has a 351w stroker with more hp than most can handle so why go big block .

[DUNRITE66]

I am a mustang guy and i say no to a big block in a mustang,they just dont fit nice,1st too heavy,2nd plugs are a night mare to get to,3rd extractors a real pain ,4th parts are very expensive .Big blocks drink  the juice .A 351 with say 400/430 hp just nice ,but extractors are a real pain in a 351w to get to the rear plugs on drivers side.Yes a big block stroker will make more power but you are only after 400/450 max. My 66 coupe has a 351w stroker with more hp than most can handle so why go big block .

like i said....you dont have to make a heap of power out the 390 coz you will have the torque..... again depends on what he is chasing and what he wants to do with his engine combo.... your 351 would be no less a  tighter fit than a 390 in a 67.... the 390 at the shop has some stainless pipes that came from the USA over the counter which fit beautifully..... you would of had to custom make your pipes in the 66... even a 351 in the 67 you can buy pipes over the counter to fit.... it's not like you pull the plugs out every week.....

[Shihan B]

So true Dunrite , spot on !

[Pash]

Thanks for all your replies guys. I appreciate it.

I know there is no substitute for cubes but it depends on the use. I'm building my car to be a tough street cruiser hat might see the 400m track one day.

So I'm 90% sure that I'll go with a 302. 351 required a lot more mucking around with extractors and so forth.

I'm now Considerind an old block bored and honed I think may cost me $1000 OR
Dart shp 302 finished 2300.

With the dart I'll be able to get 363 out of it.
 

[phaseautos]

Thanks for all your replies guys. I appreciate it.

I know there is no substitute for cubes but it depends on the use. I'm building my car to be a tough street cruiser hat might see the 400m track one day.

So I'm 90% sure that I'll go with a 302. 351 required a lot more mucking around with extractors and so forth.

I'm now Considerind an old block bored and honed I think may cost me $1000 OR
Dart shp 302 finished 2300.

With the dart I'll be able to get 363 out of it.
 

most windosor stuff is poor for big power but 400hp aint big

4060 bores have been used successfully in racing for years when block is sonic tested

save your money use your block get it tested first

then with the money saved buy 2 closed chamber clevo 2v's and a new funnelweb or etc manifold and a roller cam more torque than a 10k 390 conversion more power and better fuel consumption if both tuned right

pash call me and ill tell you a quick easy package set up you can chase prices for up there

[HEVEN67]

For my 2 bobs worth, going with anything over 60 thou on the bore is likely to stress the head gasket between the bores, only cause they are so close, and this goes for the 363 too, a 347 is an ideal size and more power than you could imagine,I know a bloke out Windsor way whom will be able to help you with choosing the best combo if you like.
luvheV

[mert]

390 stroked to 445....

http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/engine/mdmp_1007_building_survival_motorsports_445_block_engine/index.html

[phaseautos]

For my 2 bobs worth, going with anything over 60 thou on the bore is likely to stress the head gasket between the bores, only cause they are so close, and this goes for the 363 too, a 347 is an ideal size and more power than you could imagine,I know a bloke out Windsor way whom will be able to help you with choosing the best combo if you like.
luvheV

thats fine you can't buy pistons over 060

look as i tell my customers:
.020" = .25 mm each side of the bore
.040" = .5 mm each side of the bore
.060" = .75 mm each side of the bore

now if going from .5 to .75 mm is gunna cause you problems then you had them to start with!
.25mm more is nothing over 102mm (or in context from 4000" to 4060")

ohh and i suggested mls (multi layer shim) head gaskets

[GLENN 70]

Ford racing only do a 363 now, but must use a new block ,347 new block or near  new and sonic tested for sure ,old ford  block std bore try boring that out ,they are pretty thin may be ok ,but not for a stroker .347 stroker are ok but a 331 is safer. I would go later block ,hyd roller cam etc ,just like mine now mild but good power ,very good on fuel starts 1st time every time and goes fairly good ,3.25 ratio.26 inch tall tyres ,so good on hwy,makes it a bit slow off the line for drag racing but is my cruise car  and still runs 12.5 at 114 mph . with a 670 vac holley.  Bigger carby,lower diff gears ,bigger hi stall would run 11.9, i would think . My stang is a total sleeper std inside and out just a little lop out the back . Running a 351w the only thing you have to change is the extractors ,depending on your water pump ,for radiator side left or right .

[shaunp]

bit slow off the line for drag racing but is my cruise car  and still runs 12.5 at 114 mph . with a 670 vac holley.  Bigger carby,lower diff gears ,bigger hi stall would run 11.9, i would think . My stang is a total sleeper std inside and out just a little lop out the back . Running a 351w the only thing you have to change is the extractors ,depending on your water pump ,for radiator side left or right .

If you go back to the 80's 12 sec pass was a quick car. One of the Guys on this site who now has a nice 66vert, had a big dollar clevo with boss 302 heads in an XB GT hardtop, it did 12's on 295 Kelly Springfields, that was a quick car then now a 302 Windsor can do that with standard stroke. I've seen them do sub 10 with some bottle in a full body XW. The thing is you buy really good windsor heads now, in the old days you only had Clevo heads that would flow, now you can just buy them in a box.
Windsor stuff is cheap, you can build a whole egine now for what those Boss 302 heads cost to buy build & port in the 80's and money is worth less then it was then. Speed is cheap now.

[Ash]

390 stroked to 445....

http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/engine/mdmp_1007_building_survival_motorsports_445_block_engine/index.html

Hell yeah!! 501 torque at 4500rpm

[GLENN 70]

Who was that not LOU

[shaunp]

Yep with 411 gears from memory.

[GLENN 70]

See i have been around a while ,x street racer ,raced him back then .

[shaunp]

I'm from Wynnum so we raced at the Fishermans Island Port at Lyton. I had 2 Torana's and an Fj then. My best mate Gav had a HQ ute with a 400 chev glide, fuely heads Preditor carb, it would run 12's as well. Use to win some money with that ute at Fishy's and down the coast. He also had an Ej with a meth engine out of an Altered Bucket drag car in it. I made a copper head gasket to drop the compression, so it would run on supa

[GLENN 70]

I did not have anything too fast ,i would not spend the money ,i always wanted to make money out of my cars and still do .Rember the HP  shop . The fastest car i have ever owned 7 years ago big block camaro 9.8 @ 136mph natural .

[shaunp]

Lou had a Cortina before the Falcon from memory. I remember a bloke Gav used to know had, at the time the nicest Xy Gt I can remember, think his name was Phillip Caparuss ?

[GLENN 70]

That name rings a bell just cant remember the gt ,it was a long time ago ,i see Lou at munchies when i go .