Do you have to degree a new cam ?

Mustang Australia

Author Topic: Do you have to degree a new cam ?  (Read 356833 times)

Offline GLENN 70

  • GT 500
  • *********
  • Posts: 8555
  • Location: Gold Coast .
Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #50 on: February 22, 2016, 11:24:00 am »
Was a solid roller ,now is a solid roller ?  Solid roller  :thud: .

Offline Fitzy1980

  • Blue Printed
  • ****
  • Posts: 1254
  • I'm new here
Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #51 on: February 22, 2016, 11:52:22 am »
so in other words, you would be perfectly happy with the same performance you had before it blew up and you dont want a hydraulic or roller cam?

you can just order that same cam if that's what you want.

Dart does not list any heads for a cleveland.

Well apart from the "blowing up " part i didn't have any issues.

I can only guess it was more my lack of attention that caused the cam and dizzy failure.

But im open to other sugestions of course, but id like to keep costs down as much as possible. I'm hemorrhaging cash with the reno, $40k over budget  :lmao: :ouch: :ouch:

So i figured replacing the cam with the same one was the simplest and cost effective solution.

Offline GLENN 70

  • GT 500
  • *********
  • Posts: 8555
  • Location: Gold Coast .
Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #52 on: February 22, 2016, 12:01:55 pm »
I don't like solid rollers cams for street use ,hyd roller all the way BUT a bit less HP

Offline barnett468

  • Cobra
  • *********
  • Posts: 7157
Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #53 on: February 22, 2016, 01:17:57 pm »
.

ok, once again, we need to know EXACTLY what your heads are . as i mentioned, dart does not list them.

who makes them?

what is the model?

are they plastic or aluminum or prefabulated amulite?

need to know how far your cam would rev.

need to know how far you want to rev a cam.

since you were perfectly happy with the one you had, i would be hesitant to vary too much from its specs.

that schneider cam is $374.00 usd . Most of the solid cams from other companies are less than HALF that price, . Below is just a partial list.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/camshafts/make/ford/engine-size/5-8l-351/engine-family/ford-cleveland/cam-style/mechanical-flat-tappet?N=4294891642%2B4294951343%2B4294951338%2B4294948110%2B4294891005&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 01:22:39 pm by barnett468 »

Offline GLENN 70

  • GT 500
  • *********
  • Posts: 8555
  • Location: Gold Coast .
Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #54 on: February 22, 2016, 02:15:44 pm »
Isn't he talking 363 Windsor here  .?

Offline Fitzy1980

  • Blue Printed
  • ****
  • Posts: 1254
  • I'm new here
Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #55 on: February 22, 2016, 02:29:54 pm »
.

ok, once again, we need to know EXACTLY what your heads are . as i mentioned, dart does not list them.

I'll pester the engine builder again. I moved not long after the car was built so a lot of miscellaneous paperwork etc went walk about.

who makes them?

what is the model?

I have a very vague recollection that they maybe Dart Pro 1 Aluminium heads. I emphasize vague.


need to know how far your cam would rev.

I was told 8,000rpm as that was what the car was going to be used for. I had the pill to limit it to 6,000 on the street and another for 8,000 on track days.

need to know how far you want to rev a cam.

Well, i don't think i've ever rung its neck to 8,000 on the street, generally run out of road by then. Happy to just leave it as is i suppose

since you were perfectly happy with the one you had, i would be hesitant to vary too much from its specs.

that schneider cam is $374.00 usd . Most of the solid cams from other companies are less than HALF that price, . Below is just a partial list.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/camshafts/make/ford/engine-size/5-8l-351/engine-family/ford-cleveland/cam-style/mechanical-flat-tappet?N=4294891642%2B4294951343%2B4294951338%2B4294948110%2B4294891005&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending


I assume that's expensive for a cam ? I don't mind paying the extra money if it's worth it for added quality and most of all durability.

I'd rather pony up the extra coin for a better product than run the risk of another cam failure or worse complete engine failure for the sake of a few dollars.

I just haven't heard of Schneider before but they seem to have been around for awhile.

Offline barnett468

  • Cobra
  • *********
  • Posts: 7157
Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #56 on: February 22, 2016, 03:16:48 pm »
Isn't he talking 363 Windsor here  .?

I have no friggen idea, however, the cam he has is listed for a Cleveland . Perhaps some day he will let us know.


Offline barnett468

  • Cobra
  • *********
  • Posts: 7157
Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #57 on: February 22, 2016, 03:20:38 pm »
I assume that's expensive for a cam ?
:lmao:


I don't mind paying the extra money if it's worth it for added quality and most of all durability.
Well that cam is already twice as much as all the others, and is by far the most expensive flat tappet one you can buy, so how much more could you possibly spend on one .  :lmao:
 

I'd rather pony up the extra coin for a better product than run the risk of another cam failure or worse complete engine failure for the sake of a few dollars.
Well, you definitely can NOT possibly spend more money on a flat tappet cam than that one if that means anything .  :lmao:


I just haven't heard of Schneider before but they seem to have been around for awhile.
I think it is a German Deli that makes camshafts out of left over Bratwurst.  :lmao:

...
.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 03:30:42 pm by barnett468 »

Offline Fitzy1980

  • Blue Printed
  • ****
  • Posts: 1254
  • I'm new here
Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #58 on: February 22, 2016, 04:01:22 pm »
I have no friggen idea, however, the cam he has is listed for a Cleveland . Perhaps some day he will let us know.

Ahh, i was going off some specs on the dyno sheet and thats the closet thing on there site.

Once i pull the cam give them the number ill know more.


Todos a entender ?

Offline Fitzy1980

  • Blue Printed
  • ****
  • Posts: 1254
  • I'm new here
Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #59 on: February 22, 2016, 04:06:22 pm »
:lmao:

Well that cam is already twice as much as all the others, and is by far the most expensive flat tappet one you can buy, so how much more could you possibly spend on one .  :lmao:
 
Well, you definitely can NOT possibly spend more money on a flat tappet cam than that one if that means anything .  :lmao:

I think it is a German Deli that makes camshafts out of left over Bratwurst.  :lmao:

...
.


Right,

I get it, Mucho dinero.

I'll pull the cam, get specs. Look for potential alternative here if possible.


Barn i hope you google those images because it's a worrying thought that you just happen to have a bun with a big sausage hanging out of it on your computer.  :thumb:

Offline barnett468

  • Cobra
  • *********
  • Posts: 7157
Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #60 on: February 22, 2016, 04:24:56 pm »

Barn i hope you google those images because it's a worrying thought that you just happen to have a bun with a big sausage hanging out of it on your computer.  :thumb:

It's better that I posted a photo of it hanging out of those buns instead of the other buns it was hanging out of before that one .  :thumb:

« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 04:28:50 pm by barnett468 »

Offline Fitzy1980

  • Blue Printed
  • ****
  • Posts: 1254
  • I'm new here
Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #61 on: February 22, 2016, 04:37:54 pm »
 
It's better that I posted a photo of it hanging out of those buns instead of the other buns it was hanging out of before that one .  :thumb:

 :lmao: :lmao:

 :sick:

Offline barnett468

  • Cobra
  • *********
  • Posts: 7157
Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #62 on: February 22, 2016, 04:47:11 pm »
.
.......................................................... Snausages...yumm!

..........................................................
............................
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 04:53:51 pm by barnett468 »

Offline mert

  • Supercharged
  • *****
  • Posts: 2038
  • Location: Brisbane
Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #63 on: February 22, 2016, 04:50:01 pm »
8R01S, 8R03S, 8R01C-Cal Special, 8F01X - EXP500 Repli-bute

Offline Fitzy1980

  • Blue Printed
  • ****
  • Posts: 1254
  • I'm new here
Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #64 on: February 22, 2016, 05:00:10 pm »
Comparing apples to oranges, you listed mechanical flat tappets against the Schnieder solid roller... if you compare like-to-like the Summit cams of a similar style are about the same price.

http://www.summitracing.com/int/search/part-type/camshafts/make/ford/engine-size/5-8l-351/engine-family/ford-cleveland/cam-style/mechanical-roller-tappet?N=4294891642%2B4294951343%2B4294951338%2B4294948110%2B4294891440&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&retaillocation=int


I think ive confused myself and everyone.

It's definitely a solid roller.


I'll just get the thing out so everyone isnt guessing due to my ineptitude  :thud:
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 05:09:22 pm by Fitzy1980 »

Offline barnett468

  • Cobra
  • *********
  • Posts: 7157
Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #65 on: February 22, 2016, 05:14:25 pm »

I think ive confused myself and everyone.

It's definitely a solid roller.
I'll just get the thing out so everyone isnt guessing due to my ineptitude  :thud:

He was referring to me comparing the price of the BOSS290R cam, which appears to be a to
roller, to the non roller cams.

When I did a quick search for the Snausage cam, below is where i got the info which does not say roller . Their non roller cams are much less.

Schneider Racing Cams - Solid Roller Lifter Camshafts
schneidercams.com › Camshafts › Ford › Ford V-8s › Ford 335 Series V-8
Results 1 - 6 of 6 - BOSS 290R 351C Solid Lifter Camshaft. Your Price: $374.99. BOSS 290R 351C Solid Lifter Camshaft RPM Range: 2500-6500.


What do your lifters say on the cross bar?
.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 05:30:14 pm by barnett468 »

Offline GLENN 70

  • GT 500
  • *********
  • Posts: 8555
  • Location: Gold Coast .
Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #66 on: February 22, 2016, 05:20:27 pm »
I hope you don't tell us  the lifters failed ( needle rollers and flattened the roller)  then damaged the cam lobes . Please don't tell us that .

Offline barnett468

  • Cobra
  • *********
  • Posts: 7157
Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #67 on: February 22, 2016, 05:39:43 pm »
I hope you don't tell us  the lifters failed ( needle rollers and flattened the roller)  then damaged the cam lobes . Please don't tell us that .

I'm still waitin for him to tell us if it is a Windsor or a Cleveland....or a Chevy .  :lmao:

Offline Fitzy1980

  • Blue Printed
  • ****
  • Posts: 1254
  • I'm new here
Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #68 on: February 22, 2016, 06:21:15 pm »
I'm still waitin for him to tell us if it is a Windsor or a Cleveland....or a Chevy .  :lmao:

Hey, i almost bought a 545ci 64 Galaxie a few months ago.

Imagine all the stuff i could've broken with that...  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Offline barnett468

  • Cobra
  • *********
  • Posts: 7157
Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #69 on: February 22, 2016, 06:28:09 pm »
Hey, i almost bought a 545ci 64 Galaxie a few months ago.

Imagine all the stuff i could've broken with that...  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Sorry...only one repair thread per customer .  :lmao:

Offline Fitzy1980

  • Blue Printed
  • ****
  • Posts: 1254
  • I'm new here
Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #70 on: February 22, 2016, 10:18:29 pm »
Here's an initial dyno sheet i found i do have others somewhere that were from further tuning.

Offline shaunp

  • GT 500
  • *********
  • Posts: 8496
  • Location: Brisbane
Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #71 on: February 22, 2016, 10:24:35 pm »
Though it would have made more power then that. 363 will normally make that with a Holley.

Offline Fitzy1980

  • Blue Printed
  • ****
  • Posts: 1254
  • I'm new here
Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #72 on: February 22, 2016, 10:35:07 pm »
Though it would have made more power then that. 363 will normally make that with a Holley.

It does, im 99 % sure that's the first dyno run after the build.

I'll try and find the others.

Once its all back together ill get it back on the dyno
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 10:39:29 pm by Fitzy1980 »

Offline barnett468

  • Cobra
  • *********
  • Posts: 7157
Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #73 on: February 23, 2016, 05:34:33 am »
ok, without more info, it is impossible to suggest a cam.


ENGINE

We have no idea what your engine is . 363 could be a Windsor or a Cleveland.


DYNO

If you have the heads below, there ain't no way your engine makes that much hp.

Was this on an engine dyno or a rear wheel dyno?


CYLINDER HEADS

We have no idea what your cylinder heads are . Dart does not make a "BOSS 302 head, therefore, if your head is from Dart, and it is cast iron and not aluminum, it is a total pile of crap for a $15,000.00 engine and you will get probably 60 more hp by simply bolting on some AFR 195's and it will haul ass.

http://www.dartheads.com/products/aitdownloadablefiles/download/aitfile/aitfile_id/74/


EXHAUST

We have no idea what size your headers or tail pipes are . The dyno sheet says 1.75" pipes . You need to measure the diameter of your tail pipes . If they are 1.75", they are incapable of making the power numbers the dyno sheet says.


CAM

You do have the Snausage 290R cam . They make one for the Windsors and one for the Clevelands . Both are the same solid rollers and the same spec but are designed to fit two different styles of engines.

If you have the heads mentioned above, that cam is around the biggest I would can run because those heads don't flow nearly enough to use a bigger cam with.

Also, I would NOT even use that cam if you have those heads because of the incredibly bad exhaust to intake flow ratio . I would use a dual pattern cam.


GEAR RATIO

Block the front wheels.

Jack the rear up by the center of the diff.

Rotate a tire and see if the other tire turns in the SAME direction.

If both tires turn in the same direction, turn a tire until the valve stem is exactly at hr bottom.

Put a dot on the side of the drive shaft near the u joint.

Count how many times the drive shaft turns as you turn the tire exactly on full revolution.

It will most likely not turn an even number of turns . It may turn 3 1/4 turns [3.25 ratio] or 3 1/2 turns [3.50 ratio] or 3 3/4 [3.73 ratio] or almost 4 turns [3.91 ratio].

« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 07:52:08 am by barnett468 »

Offline GLENN 70

  • GT 500
  • *********
  • Posts: 8555
  • Location: Gold Coast .
Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #74 on: February 23, 2016, 08:56:02 am »
Is this the same problem engine as before ? . 363 Windsor ,dart  pro 1 alloy heads , 11.5 comp , solid roller  ,webers , top loader etc,etc .   It had running rich problems ,dizzy problems ,cam problems and built by a well known engine builder .  Unless its going to be a track car  I would toss the solid roller and run a hyd roller but you will loose maybe 40 HP and limit your revs down to around 6500 rpm .  I see so many failures of solid roller cams on street used engines unless they are checked and reset every week and when not in use the rockers backed off till race day . Valve springs have to be spot on 100% of the time , oil system has to be 100% as does the oil .  If you want to pull more revs than 6500 rpm without all the mucking around maybe go old school a flat tappet solid cam   :thud:   I will most likely get a  :kickass: for saying that . 
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 05:39:30 pm by GLENN 70 »