'66 power steering conversion

[FickleLife]

I'm about to convert my RHD '66 from manual to power steering. It was a 6cyl, now a v8 with discs but it still has the 6 cyl style drag link in it. I have been reading up on the forums and XF variable seems to be the way to go

What I have:
- Power Steering pump http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/371031364677
- Power steering pump bracket https://www.borgeson.com/xcart/product.php?productid=1656
- XF variable power steering box & idler arm

What I need
- Welded, xrayed, custom drag link https://www.mustang.org.au/forum/index.php/topic,25564.msg262933.html#msg262933 
- XF steering column or http://www.ebay.com/itm/Borgeson-Universal-990040-Steering-Shaft-Steel-Alloy-Ford-Mustang-Ea-/331391786705?fits=Year%3A1965%7CModel%3AMustang&epid=110340052&hash=item4d287d5ed1:g:FWkAAOSwBLlU~6AB&vxp=mtr
- Hoses to run from pump to box

Is there anything else I need or need to consider before I crack on?

 

[USA066]

My friend has just installed a Borgeson power steering conversion in a 66. Good result.

[cap70]

I had an xf setup in my 66 when I brought it, but the steer column was on a bad angle steer wheel had to be small 1 and still was rubbing on my knees.
I ended up putting in a retro rack unit. it was a straight bolt in setup and was able to get the steer column angle back to original.
the retro rack unit comes in a frame that bolts to all the original steering mounting points.

[cap70]

http://retrorack.com.au/rhd-retrorack-kits/65-66mustang-rhdkit
Hmm the price has gone up a lot in 2 years, I paid just over 2k

[FickleLife]

I have all the xf parts so am going to give it a go - I have read a lot about this conversion on the forum so it seems common and the result is good. The rack is $3.5k, I’ll probaby do this for around 1K with xf parts, I guess the only thing that could blow the budget is the custom drag link, I’ll call John at probe engineering today but I’ve seen $400 mentioned for the X-ray weld inspection alone so am a bit worried about that cost there!!

[boofhead]

public holiday today

if done well xf is great

[FickleLife]

Ah that's right, thanks.

[Reklaw]

I'm in the process of converting my RHD '66 from manual to power steer at the moment, using an XF P/S box. Thought it would be a direct replacement, just remove the manual box and replace it with the P/S box, but not so. The subframe rail had to be modified to accept the P/S box, which meant the engine and trans had to come out. Had to buy a P/S Pitman Arm also because the output shaft on the P/S box is bigger diameter than the manual box. Not sure yet what effect that will have on the steering geometry but will just have to suck it and see.
BobW

[Reklaw]

In my case, I also have to switch to a RH water pump because the P/S belt fouled on the lower radiator hose. This leads to changes in the radiator, either buying a different type of having the outlet moved to the other side. This might all depend on the bracketry you are using for the P/S pump and the positioning of the groove in the lower pulley for the P/S belt.

[FickleLife]

Reklaw is there anything "special" about your setup? I have read that everything fitting largely depends on how the car was converted to RHD. ShaunP seems to be The Man on XF power steering conversion knowledge - he says here https://www.mustang.org.au/forum/index.php/topic,32455.msg311831.html#msg311831 that it should be a swap apart from shortening the inner column shaft....

The pump will fit, I've already had it in with a belt so it's looking good there.

I'll have a closer look before I begin, last thing I want to do is take the engine out.

[FickleLife]

Going back to the drag link, big Al says he uses a slightly modified 66 manual steering link - https://www.mustang.org.au/forum/index.php/topic,24105.msg240270.html#msg240270 I'll give him a call tomorrow and see what he uses....

[Reklaw]

As far as I know, there is nothing special about my setup. I bought the car about 8 months ago It was converted a couple of owners ago (in 2000) using a manual XA box. Won't go into detail about drag links etc. at this stage. I wanted to go to P/S so I bought a reco'd P/S box and thought it would fit right in. When I got into it I found that it simply wouldn't fit. Here are some pics.

This pic shows the subframe rail with the manual box removed. The horizontal and vertical surfaces are flat / square. You can see the three holes where the bolts go through the rail to secure the box.



This pic shows the sub frame rail after it had been modified but before closing it up



This pic shows the completed item. The P/S box now fits snugly in there.



So, in my experience, the P/S box won't just fit in place of the manual box. I also had to modify the coupling. not sure what you have but just be aware that you may have a similar issue.

Hope this works, first time using different image hosting site.

[Reklaw]

One other thing about the P/S box. I had to cut off two of the threaded bosses that were probably used as supports for something on the Falcon.
Here's a pic. You can see the shiny bits where the cut off was done.

[shaunp]

As far as I know, there is nothing special about my setup. I bought the car about 8 months ago It was converted a couple of owners ago (in 2000) using a manual XA box. Won't go into detail about drag links etc. at this stage. I wanted to go to P/S so I bought a reco'd P/S box and thought it would fit right in. When I got into it I found that it simply wouldn't fit. Here are some pics.

This pic shows the subframe rail with the manual box removed. The horizontal and vertical surfaces are flat / square. You can see the three holes where the bolts go through the rail to secure the box.



This pic shows the sub frame rail after it had been modified but before closing it up



This pic shows the completed item. The P/S box now fits snugly in there.



So, in my experience, the P/S box won't just fit in place of the manual box. I also had to modify the coupling. not sure what you have but just be aware that you may have a similar issue.

Hope this works, first time using different image hosting site.

You don't have to do that at all, the original conversion is the issue here. All you need is 3 of the thick washers ford use on the bolts, welded on the inside and the top of the rail doesn't need to cut either. The way they originally mount the box is the issue, having said that I assume they made drag link to suit, does the flex joint clear the fire wall that is normally the next issue you will have

[FickleLife]

I hadn't read anywhere that you'd have to modify the subframe.... I'd probably be sticking with manual steering then...!

I managed to get some images that ShaunP posted in this thread https://www.mustang.org.au/forum/index.php/topic,32785.0.html off photobucket, Shaun I hope you don't mind me reposting your images here:




Looks like it should sit "on" the subframe, and also bolt to it....

Here's another pic I found of an XF conversion, but this is in a falcon... looks very similar to ShaunP images above

[shaunp]

That's actually my own 67 with an XF power box, That drag link is an XY one with the ends shortened to make it the correct width. The centre tie rod holes on an XY are the same distance as a 67+ car but the link is too wide overall. For 65 you use the original center piece and weld falcon ends to it. If you look in the pictures on Face book page there is a 65 link on there prior to Xray with dye check on it. It takes a about a day to make a link, the welding is a slow process. You'll notice the box is mounted at the top of the rail on my car, ie the one with the black engine bat the front bolt is right at the top

[Reklaw]

I'm sure you're right there Shaun, depends on the initial conversion. That's what I had to do to get the box to bolt up using the existing through sub frame rail tubes and get the input to line up with the hole in the firewall for the column and shaft.
I guess the problem that FickleLife has is, how was his converted in the first place? There's probably only one way to find out.
Regarding the coupling on mine, no it fits OK. Had to modify it to have two of the wider coupling to shaft "stalks" not one wide and one narrow. The steering shaft was probably from a manual steer vehicle.

[Reklaw]

FickleLife, have a look at the rail in front of the box on that Falcon. It's not flat, it dips down, it's been modified.

[shaunp]

I'm sure you're right there Shaun, depends on the initial conversion. That's what I had to do to get the box to bolt up using the existing through sub frame rail tubes and get the input to line up with the hole in the firewall for the column and shaft.
I guess the problem that FickleLife has is, how was his converted in the first place? There's probably only one way to find out.
Regarding the coupling on mine, no it fits OK. Had to modify it to have two of the wider coupling to shaft "stalks" not one wide and one narrow. The steering shaft was probably from a manual steer vehicle.

Yep that's right, what happens is they put the box too low and too far forward, because they make the drag link pretty straight some just turn them backward. If you make a pre 67 one with falcon ends you can get the box higher and back, and also the steering wheel higher off the floor.

[shaunp]

FickleLife, have a look at the rail in front of the box on that Falcon. It's not flat, it dips down, it's been modified.

Yep because it will be pre XA, the box mounts in a different place. Pre XA the manual box is different as well. The only other way to fix this is to bend the pitman arm.

[FickleLife]

Well, I've spoken to a few people who have done this conversion many times at a couple of specialist early mustang places... and I'm a bit confused now in what direction to go. One theme was that it's not a straight forward thing to do, it would be best to get someone to do it who has done conversions before.

XF is an option, but one reputable specialist said that he would do everything you have done Reklaw -  take the engine, booster out and take a nick out of the chassis, make any modifications needed to the shaft, make a custom drag link and put it all back together....  He also said that for a lot less hassle and maybe the same money after all the labour associated with an XF above you could get a bolt in RSS power rack and pinion and have modern/better steering. http://www.rrs-online.com.au/gt-rack-and-pinion.html

I rang RSS. For the rack kit it's $3095, excl pump, brackets and hoses. I have the pump & bracketry and will get hoses from somewhere, if you want to add RSS pump and hoses it's 700 and 385 respectively, bringing parts to $4180 - a lot of money.....

My thinking at the moment it it's beyond me to do the XF "right" without a lot of messing about. A rack is probably not beyond me and it will be "right", but for $3095...... plus whatever hoses cost. Ahh I'll sleep on it I think.....

[shaunp]

Get a price for TCP rack.

[shaunp]

http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com/

[USA066]

I have an RRS power rack & pinion coversion in my 66. Yes, a bit pricey but the result is really great. I could have used my old rebuilt pump, but, to ensure consistent pressure for smooth turning I decided to buy a new pump. Don't really like the falcon style reservoir but there are probably other options. I compared the RRS and TCP racks, and the RRS appears to be better - rod ends are heavier. Can get some pics and put up if you like.

[Reklaw]

The other option I looked at ('cause I was adamant that I wasn't going to modify the rail. Ha!)
was the electric steering kit. Looked like you leave all the steering as is, cut the shaft in the appropriate place join it with the supplied uni's, wire it up and it's done. There's even a tilt version. Don't know what traps there are and , of course, would have to be Engineered / Complianced. There's a video of the installation on the net. Cost was about $3.5k from memory.