Wanted - T5 gearbox

[mod66]

Hi looking for a T5 gearbox to fit a classic mustang. Please let me know what you have.

[flatchat]

Give Mal Wood a call --he has everything that you need

[shelby_mustro]

I've got one out of my 65 mustang located Gold Coast

[GEOFF289]

If I was doing it again I would just get one from Mal Wood too.

You may know all this but a few things to consider:

- they have been produced in a range of torque ratings over the years, more or less the later the box the higher the torque.
- however they were fitted behind all sorts of engines including local 6 cylinders and four cylinder and V6 Mustangs and those ones aren't as strong
- they have been produced in a wide range of input shaft lengths and therefore bell housing depths and shifter locations
- you want to give some consideration to rear end ratio and tyre size and have an overall plan. Everyone focuses on the overdrive but doesn't consider the other end of the equation. Many of them have quite low first gears (3.35 is common but some of the non V8 ones are even lower) and unless you have a pretty tall rear end first can be rendered pretty much redundant and of course if you have a tall diff ratio the benefit of the overdrive is reduced considerably. I would advise getting one of the 2.95 first gear ones or getting it changed to that. On this site http://www.allfordmustangs.com/Mustang_Tech/Calculators___Decoders/index.shtml the third from bottom RPM calculator is good for modelling revs and speed in each gear with tyre size and diff ratio factored in
- if using a clutch fork and conventional throw out bearing that travels along the bearing retainer get the retainer changed to a steel one. The original aluminium ones get scored and burred and makes the action less than smooth

Mal would sort out these aspects for you. Good luck with it.

[GEOFF289]

No worries. I am a complete mug when it comes to matters mechanical but I researched the nuts off this subject before I did mine. In the past I have posted a fair bit of info about my experience and what I learned on this forum that you should be able to find by searching my posts. Otherwise happy to provide any info I can as you proceed.

[flatchat]

Well said Geoff 
Q are you price driven or quality driven ? ---its just as easy to do it right as it is to do it wrong

[HAMBURGLAR]

Hi mod66 , i went through the same idea of buying a second hand box and sourcing all the bits needed but ended up buying the kit from Mal Wood. If you read on this is a breakdown of everything supplied by Mal.  First you send him your pedal box and he sends it back with the under dash hydraulics installed. Then this is a list of parts and costings as of 2015.  (1) " T5 with 2.95 1st gear as Geoff recommended $2450 (2) sandwich plate $75 (3) bell housing t5 $550 (4) B/S flywheel 157th 10.5" $435 (5) ACE clutch kit $690 (6) under dash hydraulics $690 (7) hydraulic throw out bearing kit $360 (8) braided hydraulic clutch line $160 (9) hurst set back gear stick $120 (10) hurst 5sp white knob $65 (11) speedo cable $78 (12) 19th pink gear $39 (13) flywheel bolt kit $53 (14) spigot bearing $22 (15) cross member 65-66 $175 (16) gearbox mount - toploader $43 (17) 31 spline slip yoke - 1330 no charge (18) freight to Ulladulla $170 . TOTAL COST including GST  $6175. This was quite an easy install over a weekend , but i do have a hoist. Hope this helps with your decision. Food for thought. Mark.

[GEOFF289]

Mark's information about his list of gear and costs is great.

Mod66, what is your starting point? As I said, I reckon you need an overall plan. What year is your car? Are you replacing a top loader or an auto? I it going behind the original 289 or what. How much torque does it need to  handle? LHD or RHD? I ask these questions (and others that haven't come to mind this early in the day) because while I know that list of gear from Mal Wood is quality stuff and a comprehensive kit , I think it could be done for less than that depending on your requirements.

I got my trans along with a 5.0 bell housing, sandwich plate, flywheel and yoke from a guy on the Gold Coast on Ebay the US.  Obviously this involved a gamble on it's condition. I took it to a trans place and got it stripped and inspected and it was pretty good but it might not have been. They replaced the first gear with the taller one and the bearing retainer and the total cost of the box ready to go in the car was less than Mal was selling them for at that time but not by a lot. As noted, if I was doing it again I would just get the trans from Mal.

I got a lot of my components from Modern Driveline - hydraulic actuation mechanism including internal slave, cross member, shift lever, knob and boot. I got a clutch locally and had the flywheel I got with the trans machined. I got a driveline shop to put the yoke on my tailshaft.

I would say that unless you have a pretty stout engine you don't need a $690 clutch and a more economical one like the one I got from Sunbury Brake and Clutch here in Victoria would be fine as mine has been behind a 300 odd flywheel hp roller cam 5.0. You can get a quality Yella Terra flywheel direct from them for about $350. If your trans mount is in good nick you don't need a new one as its the same as the C4/top loader one. If you are replacing a C4 or a 3 speed top loader you don't need a new speedo cable but you do need the shorter one if replacing a 4 speed top loader. Obviously if you're replacing a C4 you're going to need a manual pedal set up. If you go with the internal slave you don't need to get the steel bearing retainer as the slave doesn't travel along it, just sits still and telescopes (I didn't realise this until I'd already got the steel retainer).

Unless you use an original top loader bell housing with an adaptor plate you're going to need a new starter motor too. The old clapper one won't fit a 5.0 bell housing.

So while getting it all in a kit from Mal has a great deal going for it, I reckon depending on your engine and what you're replacing it can be done for less than Mark's cost with a bit of judicious parts selection and shopping.

Good luck with it.

[GEOFF289]

Hmmm, your stroker is going to have a fair bit of twist. A '91 T5 if good for 300 ft/lbs of torque and I think you might be packing more than that, up towards 400. It would be fine in normal street driving but dumping the clutch at 5,000 rpm on the sticky start line at Sydney Dragway might stretch the friendship.

They can be made plenty strong with internals from G Force but that would involve $.

Manuals are way more fun in my view but an auto will go better on the strip in a street car. I guess you have to decide what's most important to you - the fun of shifting it yourself every time you take it out or quicker e.t.'s and enough strength for really attacking the track in occasional strip action.

[Dwayne]

Manualised AOD box instead?

[shaunp]

I wouldn't use a T5 behind a good 347 you'll dust it, A TKO is much stronger but a tight fit. The best fit in an early mustang is actually a 6 speed T56. Or just run a Toploader, if OD is not a priority

[flatchat]

 

[Husky350]

There is a guy on gumtree that is on the central coast who has a few new ford t56's that were in the later model mustang cobra. He wants about 1800 bucks for them. They are rated around 450ft lb I think. They are a 10 spline input, so apart from the bellhousing(which quicktime make), the rest of the parts are the same as you would need for a T5(apart from the tunnel mods).
Either that or go to a t56 magnum. If you want a manual, do it once properly.

[GEOFF289]

Fairly major tunnel surgery needed to get a T56 in one of these cars and keep the driveline angle correct as they are physically larger than a T5 which is a pretty tight fit anyway. See here for instance

http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/mod-custom-forum/662682-t56-magnum-1966-coupe.html

As I said before, a T5 can be made to be happy behind an engine like your's with Gforce internals

https://www.gforcetransmissions.com/tran_gt-5.asp

but it all comes at a price

[Husky350]

The tunnel work is not really that bad for someone that knows what they are doing. I mean, all you're doing is making the tunnel a bit larger. It will look the same as stock under carpet.
I know you can get the stronger internals for the T5, but i've been following lots of guys that have blown the g force and astro T5's in the states. Granted, they were running a fair bit of power and not taking it easy on the street. But for the price of what a rebuilt T5 with the g force or astro gearsets, you'd go a t56 or tko in a hearbeat. I reckon it would work out cheaper too.

[GEOFF289]

The tunnel work is not really that bad for someone that knows what they are doing. I mean, all you're doing is making the tunnel a bit larger.

Well that would exclude me but sure, I know it can be done, just trying to ensure the OP knew a T56 won't just slide in there in case he shares two things with me - doesn't know what he is doing and doesn't want to cut his car up.

I know you can get the stronger internals for the T5, but i've been following lots of guys that have blown the g force and astro T5's in the states. Granted, they were running a fair bit of power and not taking it easy on the street. But for the price of what a rebuilt T5 with the g force or astro gearsets, you'd go a t56 or tko in a hearbeat. I reckon it would work out cheaper too.

The Gforce gear is supposed to be good for 600 hp and 500 ft/lbs of torque in a 3,300 lb car (early Mustang is about 2,500?) on drag radials. Not impossible I guess but unlikely his 347 is packing that much mumbo. Nevertheless I take your point, a t56 or TKO could be cheaper if he does the tunnel surgery himself. As I said earlier in this thread, he needs to work out what's most important to him and how much he wants to spend, but I'd say he's already realised it isn't as straight forward as his initial inquiry.

Been fitting up my new short shifter to mine today so my car is going to be way faster and cooler now.

[Husky350]

The Gforce gear is supposed to be good for 600 hp and 500 ft/lbs of torque in a 3,300 lb car (early Mustang is about 2,500?) on drag radials.

From what I've read on other forums, the T5 case can flex under high torque, which is what can kill the box. G force make a stronger case they sell, so you'd need that also if you are going to upgrade the internals.

I was probably a bit optimistic with the cheaper comment. I just had a quick look, and the g force internals and case are around 2800aud delivered. Then you need a cheap t5 box and someone to install it all. So maybe 300 for a local t5, and 500 for the labour(not sure on this cost), so around 3600 for the box. The T56 magnum you can get for about 4800 delivered. The rest of the parts needed are similarly priced. The magnum is rated at 700ft lb's of torque, the upgraded T5 will be 500ft lb's. The new T5z's you can buy are rated at 330ft lb's. All of these are conservative for normal street driving.

On that price, I would definitely rebuild a local box with the stronger g force internals than get a new t5z, if you wanted a t5. If you want to future proof yourself(we always want more power), don't mind raising the tunnel, have an extra gear and have the extra $$, go the t56.

Ps. The Ford Cobra T56 I mentioned earlier is rated at around 450ft lb's I believe. It also has a 10 spline input, the same as a t5, which isn't as strong as the t56 magnum input. But for 1800 bucks I'm actually looking at buying one too