Quick Fuel Carbie Choice

[bank1957]

Would appreciate which Quick Fuel carbies to install into my old girl's new heart.
Looking at 600HR or 650 HR series dp carb. Windsor engine block having 306 cub inc, roller rocker,solid lifters, comp cams flat tappet camshaft approx 240 deg @ 50 duration,Edelbrock E street alumin heads with 1.9" intake valve 60cc chamber, aiming for a 11:1 compression;all to achieve a mild 300 hp at the rear wheels.

[barnett468]

Would appreciate which Quick Fuel carbies to install into my old girl's new heart.
Looking at 600HR or 650 HR series dp carb. Windsor engine block having 306 cub inc, roller rocker,solid lifters, comp cams flat tappet camshaft approx 240 deg @ 50 duration,Edelbrock E street alumin heads with 1.9" intake valve 60cc chamber, aiming for a 11:1 compression;all to achieve a mild 300 hp at the rear wheels.

that cam is WAY too big for those heads . who in the world suggested that setup?

also, you must use different valve springs with that cam and check spring retainer to valve guide clearances at full lift . you will be much better off with a much smaller roller and/or much  better heads like AFR 185's.

you also need to mill the heads and use flat top pistons with 2 valve reliefs to get decent compression.

for a carb, a quick fuel 680 cfm is a decent all around carb for most builds.


one suggestion is the following

afr 185 heads

11.0 compression

.037" squish/quench

morel hyd roller lifters

this cam http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=1057&sb=0

quick fuel 680 carb

weiand dual plane track warrior intake

3.91 gears

overdrive trans

3000 rpm stall

[GLENN 70]

I would worry about the 11.1 comp  the way fuel is these days . Even with 98 it seems to be a problem at some servos . Would be safer at 10.1 to 10.5 .1   Just my thoughts that's all .

[GLENN 70]

300 HP at the wheels is a bit of an ask with those heads and they would not have been my choice .  It also depends on if it's an auto or manual  ? .  Getting away from your original question I know and sorry about that I don't mean to carry on .

[bank1957]

It's an original 4 speed top loader manual gearbox. Rear end ratio is 3.0 to 1. The set up is what the engine builder suggested and guaranteed the figures and the durability of his work. Wouldn't the 680 be too big,since I only had a choice between a 600 &650. All parts are new.

[shaunp]

I'd forget the flat tappet solid and put a roller hydraulic in it, like a comp cams XE274, Airgap intake and some 165/185 AFR heads. 650 double pumper and a 3.25-3.5 truetrack behind the toploader, there is no point in flat tappet cams anymore other then to save a couple of bucks, haven't used one in years. A roller cam makes for a much nicer engine to live with and faster, more reliable to boot. E street heads are an inexpensive entry level head, dont flow that well cheap valve parts that need swaping out.

[shaunp]

Also consider an AED HO 650 DP. Great carbs

http://www.aedperformance.com/

http://www.aedperformance.com/component/com_virtuemart/view,productdetails/virtuemart_category_id,24/virtuemart_product_id,26/

[shaunp]

Here some pictures of a set of AFR's too big for your engine but 165-185 would suit it, If you can afford a little more this what I would use they are much better, CNC ported better hardware move more air, will get you closer to your 300 at the wheels.

[barnett468]

The set up is what the engine builder suggested...

 

[barnett468]

Wouldn't the 680 be too big,since I only had a choice between a 600 &650. All parts are new.

You go to an engine builder and believe what he tells you but you come here to ask what carb you should run . Something doesn't add up here.

Your carb size isn't very important since unfortunately it's going to run like crap anyway.

[GLENN 70]

Hey if you have those parts well they are the parts you have . Carby wise it depends if you want to go a DP or vac sec carb .  650 in DP or go 680 in vac sec .

[barnett468]

Hey if you have those parts well they are the parts you have . Carby wise it depends if you want to go a DP or vac sec carb .  650 in DP or go 680 in vac sec .

No point in living with an incredibly crappy combo if it only requires changing the cam to vastly improve it.

If I was going to build the worst combo in the world, this would be at or near the top of my list.

That combo needs a comp xe262h or similar

[GLENN 70]

Hey he might want to go old school for that solid cam sound

[barnett468]

Wouldn't the 680 be too big,since I only had a choice between a 600 &650. All parts are new.

Your cam is what is WAY too big.

A 65 and 66 shelby had mildly ported crappy stock heads and 10.0 compression and at least 3.50 gears and high rise intake and headers and it had a 715 carb and worked just fine.

[barnett468]

Hey he might want to go old school for that solid cam sound

That's easy, just use comp cams hydraulic lifters. 

[barnett468]

Hey he might want to go old school for that solid cam sound

ok, these are noisy with .022" lash

this with 1.7 rockers, stealth street warrior and 3.50 gears, 10.5 compression.

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=824&sb=0


or this with 1.6 rockers and performer or street warrior and at least 3.43 gears, 10.5 compression

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=819&sb=0


or this

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hrs-212342-10/overview/make/ford

high quality lifters with the oil hole on the bottom.

[GLENN 70]

Think he might be running 14 inch wheels so 3.00 would be ok . If 15 inch a 3.25 is ok in a manual .

[GLENN 70]

If you want it to go you will need to do something about the heads .

[barnett468]

Think he might be running 14 inch wheels so 3.00 would be ok . If 15 inch a 3.25 is ok in a manual .

not with a 240 @ .050 cam.

i only gave fitzy a 236 cam for his 363 ci with 195 heads, 3.73 gears and friggen webers.

[barnett468]

If you want it to go you will need to do something about the heads .

.........

[GLENN 70]

Well Barney Banana  , it is what it is , Lumpy and loud 

[bank1957]

Hey he might want to go old school for that solid cam sound

Absolutely correct. Lumpy and real loud. I have electronic exhaust cutouts, so at the flick of a switch it can go from quiet to insane and anywhere in between. My view is old school. The 'ol mate Barnett is always worth a read!

Now that Barnett being a knowledgeable male member of society, what do you guys have to say about when a dyno test could be run on the car, since payment is dependent on 300+ rwhp. If it fails to reach this number, then the builder is up for all extra costs to get it there (without adding NOS)

The cam is a  282 S Comp Cams solid,he syas he's used them in heaps of Windsors that he has built.

[barnett468]

The problem is that cam is way too big for those heads AND for 3.00 gears . that cam absolutely positively must have at least 3.73 gears to not get beat across an intersection by a 3 legged dog . Yes it may be loud but its also going to be humiliating when your obnoxiously loud car gets smoked off the line by some old lady driving a whisper quiet Lincoln Town Car with the a/c on and the only possible hope you have of avoiding this type of situation with 3.00 gears is to install a 6000 rpm stall converter.

Jjust because it may make 300 rwhp, does not mean that it will make more OVERALL power than a different setup . What it sounds like the guy is trying to do is is over ride a set of average flowing heads with a cam that is too big for them to get the power instead of spending more money on the correct heads for this type of app which is absolutely positively the wrong way to do it, and he is giving you a cam that really needs around 3.73 gears unless you simply don't care about acceleration and are only after something loud . This guy seems to be absolutely clueless or at least irresponsible for using that cam with the other parts you have, and I project that you will soon be making a post that says "Why is my 300 rwhp car slower than a 3 legged dog and an old lady driving a Lincoln." 

[barnett468]

...what do you guys have to say about when a dyno test could be run on the car, since payment is dependent on 300+ rwhp. If it fails to reach this number, then the builder is up for all extra costs to get it there (without adding NOS)

I think that if you run it on a Mustang Dyno, he will be buying you a set of AFR heads. 

[barnett468]

The cam is a  282 S Comp Cams solid,he syas he's used them in heaps of Windsors that he has built.

That cam has 282 advertised duration and 236 @ .050.

Fitzys engine makes around 500 hp with a cam I got him that has the same duration at .050" but only 264 advertised duration and his engine is only 57 cubes bigger than yours and he has 3.73 gears and he says it is now scary fast.