Wilwood non power master cylinder 7/8"

[zlat347ci]

Has anybody used this master cylinder kit for early mustang?
They claim direct bolt on, and recommend the 7/8" as being suitable for non boosted brakes? 


http://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylinders/MasterCylinderKits.aspx
Product code: 261-13272

just wanted to see peoples experience with install and brake feel?

thanks.

[birdman]

I've heard they work well just make sure you get the correct bore size for your application and i am pretty sure it's illegal to have the prop valve accessable the way it is on this master cyl...

[zlat347ci]

ive purchased the Wilwood 4 pot calliper front and rear kits:

Front - Type:   Dynapro Dust Boot
Piston Count:   4
Piston Area (In²):   4.80
Brake Pad Plate:   7812
Brake Pad Area (In²):   6.36
Brake Pad Volume (In³):   2.1

Rear -  Type:   Dynapro Dust Boot
Piston Count:   4
Piston Area (In²):   3.00
Brake Pad Plate:   7812
Brake Pad Area (In²):   6.36
Brake Pad Volume (In³):   2.1

they recommend the 7/8, wanted to see if members here are using the 7/8 or 5/16?

[HAMBURGLAR]

Hi zlat , I use that exact 7/8 wildwood m/c with prop valve with ssbc front disc 4 piston calipers with drilled and slotted rotors with ebc green stuff pads and I still cant get the bugger to lock up. Also tried with a booster. No one can figure this one out for the last 2 years. 

[zlat347ci]

Hi zlat , I use that exact 7/8 wildwood m/c with prop valve with ssbc front disc 4 piston calipers with drilled and slotted rotors with ebc green stuff pads and I still cant get the bugger to lock up. Also tried with a booster. No one can figure this one out for the last 2 years. 

Thanks mate, that setup looks really nice and clean in the bay. intresting why they wont lock up though, not enough line pressure?   

[barnett468]

Hi zlat , I use that exact 7/8 wildwood m/c with prop valve with ssbc front disc 4 piston calipers with drilled and slotted rotors with ebc green stuff pads and I still cant get the bugger to lock up. Also tried with a booster. No one can figure this one out for the last 2 years. 

should be a piece of cake . . exactly what is the problem?

what brake pads are you using?

[HAMBURGLAR]

Hi Barnett I think you tried to help me with this a while ago. A couple of brake joints have had a look but no joy. In a nut shell , 66 fasty had drum brakes V8 spindles. Now it has  factory drums on back completely overhauled and on the front ssbc 4 piston calipers , drilled and slotted , EBC green stuff pads , brand new lines from wildwood 7/8 M/C non boosted to calipers. I have a very firm pedal which feels great. When I jump on the brakes hard the front wont lock up but the back drums grab enough to lock them up but not like they should. I want to hit the brakes and lock up all 4 wheels, otherwise this is a dangerous vehicle.  Pretty big nut shell hey.

[barnett468]

Hi Barnett I think you tried to help me with this a while ago. A couple of brake joints have had a look but no joy. In a nut shell , 66 fasty had drum brakes V8 spindles. Now it has  factory drums on back completely overhauled and on the front ssbc 4 piston calipers , drilled and slotted , EBC green stuff pads , brand new lines from wildwood 7/8 M/C non boosted to calipers. I have a very firm pedal which feels great. When I jump on the brakes hard the front wont lock up but the back drums grab enough to lock them up but not like they should. I want to hit the brakes and lock up all 4 wheels, otherwise this is a dangerous vehicle.  Pretty big nut shell hey.

ok, it might be better to start another thread . . there is no reason this cant be fixed . . i vaguely remember the other thread but i can fix any friggen brake system so i have no idea what happened . . i was busy for a period of time so its possible i didnt follow up but if you have the time and the money, i'll tell you how to make it stop.

if you have the link to your previous thread, please post it here and i will review it.

your pads are ok.

basically, all you "should" need is a smaller master ehich will increase your pedal travel.

if you are trying to stop fast from 100 mph, your current brakes may not do it.

[HAMBURGLAR]

ok, it might be better to start another thread . . there is no reason this cant be fixed . . i vaguely remember the other thread but i can fix any friggen brake system so i have no idea what happened . . i was busy for a period of time so its possible i didnt follow up but if you have the time and the money, i'll tell you how to make it stop.

if you have the link to your previous thread, please post it here and i will review it.

your pads are ok.

basically, all you "should" need is a smaller master ehich will increase your pedal travel.

if you are trying to stop fast from 100 mph, your current brakes may not do it.

Cheers mate , but since the last threads I have installed the wildwood M/C and removed the booster. The master that came from SSBC was a 1 inch bore and now I'm running the 7/8. How much smaller do you think I should go on the master.

[barnett468]

Cheers mate , but since the last threads I have installed the wildwood M/C and removed the booster. The master that came from SSBC was a 1 inch bore and now I'm running the 7/8. How much smaller do you think I should go on the master.

ok your brake system sucks for some reason . . sounds like something aint right . . 7/6" master is the smallest anyine needs on a properly working system.

did you notice much of a change with the 7/8" master.

how large are your rotors?

exactly which calipers are they . . i am looking for the piston size?

what brake fluid is it?

is it silicone?

if you push your brake pedal hard, how far does it travel before it stops?

how far from the floor is it when it stops?

how far from the floor is it when it is in its normal position?

how far does the rod on the master travel befor the pedal gets hard?

 
 

[HAMBURGLAR]

ok your brake system sucks for some reason . . sounds like something aint right . . 7/6" master is the smallest anyine needs on a properly working system.

did you notice much of a change with the 7/8" master.               No not really.

how large are your rotors?          Little  11.25 in 

exactly which calipers are they . . i am looking for the piston size?               43mm

what brake fluid is it?             DOT 3

is it silicone?                Cant tell you , threw bottle away.

if you push your brake pedal hard, how far does it travel before it stops?          80mm

how far from the floor is it when it stops?         80mm

how far from the floor is it when it is in its normal position?         160mm from front of pedal to floor.

how far does the rod on the master travel befor the pedal gets hard?            Between 15 to 20 mm.

Hi Barnett , I have added to your questions but not sure if it will show up.

[barnett468]

Hi Barnett , I have added to your questions but not sure if it will show up.

ok, xlnt .

your master cylinder is not bottoming out.

are the fronts 4 piston?

are the rears drums?

do you have a proportioning valve?

if you push on the pedal a few times in a row while you are parked, does it pump up a little?

you should have definitely noticed at least some change going from 1" to 7/8"

exactly what happens if you mash the pedal really hard with two feet from 50 - 60 kph?

does it lock up?

does it stop fast?

does it just keep going?

[HAMBURGLAR]

ok, xlnt .

your master cylinder is not bottoming out.

are the fronts 4 piston?     Yes

are the rears drums?         Yes

do you have a proportioning valve?     Yes came with Wilwood  master .

if you push on the pedal a few times in a row while you are parked, does it pump up a little?     Yes

you should have definitely noticed at least some change going from 1" to 7/8"    It was a while ago and the brain doesn't work that well anymore.

exactly what happens if you mash the pedal really hard with two feet from 50 - 60 kph?

does it lock up?

does it stop fast?

does it just keep going?

     I will have to get back to you on the testing as I have no doors and no hood on at the moment and the boys in blue wouldn't appreciate it. Cheers

[barnett468]

     I will have to get back to you on the testing as I have no doors and no hood on at the moment and the boys in blue wouldn't appreciate it. Cheers

well how did it stop before?

can you not drive it because it doesnt stop at all?

you dont need to drive it to tell if the brake pedal pumps up or stays the same height.

[littlejohn]

Im interjecting, barenett, i still owes ya a bear hug for helping sort my brakes ! 
Us Greeks have a nick name for you...a TZAMPION !!
Hamburglar, this guy knows his sht bro! 

[HAMBURGLAR]

well how did it stop before?

can you not drive it because it doesnt stop at all?

you dont need to drive it to tell if the brake pedal pumps up or stays the same height.

          I added to your last post about the pedal when pumped and a few other things. I should of mentioned that. My bad. The car will stop eventually but if someone walked out in front of me 60mtrs away and I'm doing 60kph there dead.

[HAMBURGLAR]

Im interjecting, barenett, i still owes ya a bear hug for helping sort my brakes ! 
Us Greeks have a nick name for you...a TZAMPION !!
Hamburglar, this guy knows his sht bro! 

Hope your right littlejohn. By the way champ your car looks awesome in those photos.

[littlejohn]

Thanks bro, yeah he helped me via this forum from  go to woe with my brakes,
I had none, barely....
 He had so much patience with me,
My car brakes frigging amazingly!
He asks very direct questions, to give you direction to a solution.
You are in very safe hands

I for one am  very gratefull he is a member here,


Enough talkin about  him in front if his back ! Lol's

[barnett468]

          I added to your last post about the pedal when pumped and a few other things. I should of mentioned that. My bad. The car will stop eventually but if someone walked out in front of me 60mtrs away and I'm doing 60kph there dead.

ok you have air in your lines or your rear brakes are way out of adjustment.

the rear brakes need to be adjusted until the drag then step on the pedal and adjust them until they drag again then back the adjustmant off 1/2 of a turn.

you shoould have a regular proportioning valve, not that wilwood valve by itself.

if your brakes dont work well once the air is gone you can install front calipers with bigger pistons if you cant find a smaller master . . you could also cheat a little and relocate the brake pin on your brake pedal upward around 15 mm . . the brake pedal pin mod is the best option in your case providding the brake rod is either currently perfectly horizontal or it runs uphil from the brake pedal . . this mod will increase your pedal traavel by around 1 inch.

if your rear brakes are not adjusted tight enough, adjusting them will reduce pedal travel.

also, installing 2 lb residual valves in each front brake line will reduce pedal travel by maybe 8 mm inch.

 the more you can reduce pedal travel with these changes, the more room you have to increase it by changing the leverage ratio of the brakes . . leverage ratio and brake pad mateerial is everything.

if you have cheap rear shoes you neec ebc green there alsoo . . if your rear drrums arent perfectly smooth you need to surface them.

if you do all these things it will seem like you almost have power brakes.
.

[barnett468]

.
hey hamburglar i just looked at your caliper  . . i can see that a f'n idiot designed that crossover location.

you may never get all the air out of it because the bleeder is below the cross over line . . i cant believe no one noticed that if you had it at a brake shop.

i actually called SSBC this morning and told a tech guy about the problem . . of course he said no one ever complained before but saw the problem after i brought it to his attention . . he said they do all their own machining on the raw castings so they could easily put the crossover line on the opposite end of the caliper and that he would bring it up to their engineering group [clowns] and see if that is feasible.

you need to have someone help you bleed them.

1. stuff some paper towels in the top of the caliper to keep the brake fluid off of the pads . . you could also try to seal them off with high quality masking tape.

2. use a line wrench to break the inside fitting on the crossover brake line loose then quickly retighten it so it is just snug but not super tight . . if you dont use a line wrench the nut might round off . . this would be unpleasant.

3. pump your brake pedal 3 times and hold it down moderately hard on the third time.

4. have your helper loosen the fittng QUICKLY 1/4 to 1/3rd of a turn . . the brake pedal will start to go towards the floor fairly quickly so you may need to reduce pressure on it a little but keep pushing on it until the fitting is closed . . the idea is to push the fluid through fast enough that it might remove any air that is in the line above the fitting . . either way, this will remove at least a little of the air that is trapped in that line.

5. when the brake pedal is around 50 mm off the floor, tell your friend to close the fitting quickly . . keep pushing on the pedal untill the fitting is closed.

6. clean up oil . . remove paper towels . . install new paper towels and repeat process one more time.

7. bleed the rears again using the bleeder valve.

[barnett468]

Thanks bro, yeah he helped me via this forum from  go to woe with my brakes, I had none, barely....  He had so much patience with me, My car brakes frigging amazingly! He asks very direct questions, to give you direction to a solution. You are in very safe hands

I for one am  very gratefull he is a member here,

Enough talkin about  him in front if his back ! Lol's

Hi littlejohn;

Thanks for the very kind words, and I'm glad your brakes worked out ok, but now the pressures on me to perform another miracle.


Hey Barn...can you turn some water into wine for me, cuz after reading that, I need a drink!.

. .

[HAMBURGLAR]

.
hey hamburglar i just looked at your caliper  . . i can see that a f'n idiot designed that crossover location.

you may never get all the air out of it because the bleeder is below the cross over line . . i cant believe no one noticed that if you had it at a brake shop.

i actually called SSBC this morning and told a tech guy about the problem . . of course he said no one ever complained before but saw the problem after i brought it to his attention . . he said they do all their own machining on the raw castings so they could easily put the crossover line on the opposite end of the caliper and that he would bring it up to their engineering group [clowns] and see if that is feasible.

you need to have someone help you bleed them.

1. stuff some paper towels in the top of the caliper to keep the brake fluid off of the pads . . you could also try to seal them off with high quality masking tape.

2. use a line wrench to break the inside fitting on the crossover brake line loose then quickly retighten it so it is just snug but not super tight . . if you dont use a line wrench the nut might round off . . this would be unpleasant.

3. pump your brake pedal 3 times and hold it down moderately hard on the third time.

4. have your helper loosen the fittng QUICKLY 1/4 to 1/3rd of a turn . . the brake pedal will start to go towards the floor fairly quickly so you may need to reduce pressure on it a little but keep pushing on it until the fitting is closed . . the idea is to push the fluid through fast enough that it might remove any air that is in the line above the fitting . . either way, this will remove at least a little of the air that is trapped in that line.

5. when the brake pedal is around 50 mm off the floor, tell your friend to close the fitting quickly . . keep pushing on the pedal untill the fitting is closed.

6. clean up oil . . remove paper towels . . install new paper towels and repeat process one more time.

7. bleed the rears again using the bleeder valve.

         Hey Barnett , went through all those steps with my son  and thought I might see some air bubbles come out of the crossover tube but didn't notice any. Reset the back drums which were pretty much spot on.  After doing all of this the pedal felt pretty much the same to both of us. Soon as I get the panels back on I will do some brake tests at speed and get back to you. Thanks for your help.

[barnett468]

         Hey Barnett , went through all those steps with my son  and thought I might see some air bubbles come out of the crossover tube but didn't notice any. Reset the back drums which were pretty much spot on.  After doing all of this the pedal felt pretty much the same to both of us. Soon as I get the panels back on I will do some brake tests at speed and get back to you. Thanks for your help.

ok, do the pedal pump up test and see if it still pumps up.


after you do that test, you need to wait maybe 4 hours before you can do it again because it might take that long for them to bleed back down.