'69+Coyote Ground-Up Build: initial research

[Lorik_Quiin]

Hi guys,

First off - First post, nice to meet you all :)

I'm an engineer, and I'm now coming to a point in my life where I have money to spend on things I want, not things I need to get by. My work is also steering away from the hands-on engineering that I love towards a more paperwork based certification role. And I'm fine with that, but I need to keep getting my hands dirty or I'll go mental.

I've loved classic mustangs for as long as I can remember. Particularly the '69. I have no particular interest in the history / spirit of mustangs - I grew up in the wrong country, and the wrong time, I just have no connection to it - but god its a beautiful machine! I've wanted to own one for a long time.

After having seen a number of articles on Coyote engine swaps, I'm hooked on the idea of taking an excellent modern engine, and putting it in (what I think is) the best mustang body in the last 50 years. I'm thinking that this will be my project for a good few years to come.

I don't plan to start from a decades-old machine. I want to take a brand new shell from Dyancorn, and build my mustang up from nothing. Hopefully this'll be the closest thing to a 69 mustang built in 2015+ as one can possibly get.

I know this will be a LOT!! of work, time, and money - even taking into account Hofstadter's Law.

I have some acceptable mechanical skills with my job, and from wrenching on my and my wife's motorbikes, but I know I'll need to develop a lot of new skills. It will also be more difficult and expensive because I'm doing this in Australia, not the states so shipping and lead times will be a pain.

Here's my skeleton plan for the build. Very "Big hands, Small maps" but i have to start somewhere:
1. Set up work space
2. Get the Dynacorn shell, prime it, prep it for a long build time
3. Get VIN number etc. sorted out
4. Shock tower removal / Independent front suspension kit / Steering install
5. Engineering Certificate for modified chassis
6. Complete rolling chassis (and front seats + basic controls)
7. Crate engine, transmission, control kit
8.  Power train integration
9. Sort out auxiliary systems - intake, radiator, fueling etc.
10. First test drive
11. Complete exterior
12. Interior design / Fabricate / Install
13. Strip down, paint, and upholster
14. Re-assemble, Additional Eng. certificates,  legal hurdles for road Registration

That's what I've got so far, I'm going to be doing a lot of reading, but from what I've seen, this project is feasible-albeit-costly.

I'd love as much wisdom from you guys as you're willing to provide. On just about anything you can thing to enlighten me on. Things that I'm missing, things that I'll need to research in particular depth, details about registering custom vehicles in Aus, good suppliers of parts and services, both in Australia and the US, anything.

I don't know what I don't know, so please fill my brain :)

Thanks

[skip70]

Nice challenge you have set yourself and boy sounds like a nice combo when completed.
 
A couple of things that come immediately to mind;
 
1) The bodies I believe come pre-painted with undercoat so working on them should pose no immediate rust issues,
2) You want to register this at the end, so from the start consult an engineer who knows the regulations in your state, and can follow the build through and answer or (navigate) through the regulations to avoid costly errors.
3) a packaged factory engine drive train with controls would be ideal but a cheaper way may be to buy a low mileage donor wreck and take out what you need.
4) With your changes to the front suspension you will probably want to change the rear as well. I would choose a supplier for both and purchase a pre-engineered package that works.
5) nice vision, get that ginger beer (engineer) on board now and tell them what you want to do.

have fun!

[Lorik_Quiin]

1) The bodies I believe come pre-painted with undercoat so working on them should pose no immediate rust issues,
2) You want to register this at the end, so from the start consult an engineer who knows the regulations in your state, and can follow the build through and answer or (navigate) through the regulations to avoid costly errors.
3) a packaged factory engine drive train with controls would be ideal but a cheaper way may be to buy a low mileage donor wreck and take out what you need.
4) With your changes to the front suspension you will probably want to change the rear as well. I would choose a supplier for both and purchase a pre-engineered package that works.
5) nice vision, get that ginger beer (engineer) on board now and tell them what you want to do.

1) awesome :) good to know
2) this is really helpful. I'm unfamiliar with the process for engineering certificates so yeah having someone qualified following my build process is a great idea.
3) apparently there's a lot of gremlins with getting stock electrical system integrated into a new vehicle, so FRPP actually make a kit specifically for engine swaps: http://www.americanmuscle.com/frpp-coyote-engine-control.html
4) Knew about the front, didn't know about the rear, thanks. Looking at Heidts, Total Cost Involved, or Griggs Racing at the moment.
5) Ginger Beer -  never heard of that one. I've always been a Pretengineer.

[R_Beckhaus]

Using a Dynacorn body MAY, and I repeat, MAY mean registering it as a Kit car, and will need to comply with 2015 ADR's (Australian Design Rules) with reference to emission control etc. Good Luck with what sounds like an amazing build. Please keep us in the loop, with pics please.
Cheers, Ron B

[whitewun]

You might want to get in touch with Ray Spence.
He is the guy that engineered my 1970 pony and took it through rego.
He should be able to advise you on  the Kit car and ADR issues.
Talking to him now could save you some big dollars and / or heartaches

He is canberra based and a very switched on guy.

Regards some of your other questions try talking to Darryl Foster aka Nuts
should be able to find him through the Mustang Tech forum
He is Canberra based and does a hell of a lot of mechanical work
on the ACT mustangs.

Cheers
Whitewun

[littlejohn]

All i can say is Welcome to the forum.

Ps. Better offbuying a wrecked 69 with vin,AND a dynacorn body etc..
And keeping in mind, the dynacorn body is a " part" that you changed!!
Get my drift?
If you dont, you will only be able to register that car as a kit car,
In Any state in OZ, and you will never
And i do meannever....
See the  true value of your large investment, ie time and or money.

Money value may be of no concern initially,
Yet replacement value might, re: insurance etc

Small outlay in the begining, large amount of pure pride everafter!!
Less headfks along the way.

Once again..... Welcome

Cheers
John

[MachAttack]

There are a couple of '69 Coyote build threads on the Mustangs To Fear forum. One a RHD Aussie car. You'll need to register to view the threads though. One is titled - First Coyote 69 Mustang FB in Australia. The other is titled - Steve's Dark Dream (should be wet dream...... it's one sexy bitch). That one is 50 pages long.

[Salthorse]

This is hard to see but the engine in this '69 is a modern v8 . . . Coyote? The car was at the Clayton's gathering in Bayswater on Australia Day. I don't know the owner. It is/ was registered in NSW. Perhaps another member knows the owner who might be able to give you some tips.

http://vic.mustang.org.au/clubphotos/20150126_Bayswater/imgpages/image037.html

[MachAttack]

That's the one on the MTF forum Salthorse.

[littlejohn]

That thing is Hot! What a beast!

[unilec5544]

I would be looking for a 69 fastback roller with a decent body and even if it needs maybe new floors, they are cheap to buy and relatively easy to install as are most panels for Mustangs. That way you will save heaps more and have the import permit,  if sourced from the states and an original vin number. That way you can register the car as a 69 Mustang and not a kit car. I have heard stories about panel fitment issues of the Dynacorn bodies as well.
You can contact Matt Shermatt one of the forum sponsors on this site, very helpful guy and I am sure he will find what you are looking for.

[mwizz]

Welcome to the forum. Sounds like a great build project.

[Clubman7]

Here's a starter to transplant your Dynacorn chassis to.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MUSTANG-/181722838533?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item2a4f867605

[Lorik_Quiin]

There are a couple of '69 Coyote build threads on the Mustangs To Fear forum.

Once the admins okay my forum registration, I'll take a good look at these.

I would be looking for a 69 fastback roller with a decent body and even if it needs maybe new floors. You can contact Matt Shermatt one of the forum sponsors on this site, very helpful guy and I am sure he will find what you are looking for.

Yeah I'm starting to feel that's gonna be a better way to go. I got quoted AU$33,000 +GST to get a '69 Dynacorn shell. Could buy a decent-quality AU road-registered car for less than that, and I could re-use a swag of parts when it comes to doing the interior, body panels, electrical and accessories.
In order to belay structural integrity fears with an older shell, would it be worth a full replacement frame like this one from  Schwartz Performance: http://www.schwartzperformance.com/1964-1973-mustang-chassis-full-frame/
Includes a stack of useful goodies including the necessary front suspension changes to fit a 5.0 engine, rpgraded rear suspension, disk brakes all round, and new beefed up rear driveline. Not cheap, but I'd be getting all of those parts eventually, the single structure looks solid rather than welding to sheet metal of potentially dubious quality, and the simplicity of it all appeals to me :)

Some other things I've identified to look into:
1. Climate control - apparently people have had luck with Classic Auto Air - but would that work with a Coyote compressor?
2. Power steering - I'm clueless here, any tips? I assume I'd have to nail down exactly what front suspension system I'd be going with before can head down that pathway
3. RHD - wouldn't mind. Apparently its doable, but is it gonna be a nightmare dealing with the Coyote?
4. ABS brake system - since Im building the brake system more or less from scratch would it be feasible to include a basic ABS system? has this been done on a) a 69 mustang, and b) a coyote engine swap in anything?
5. Powered seats - neat!

[R_Beckhaus]

FOR Aussie use it would need crash test certification, performed to Australian standards. Since you are going to modify the bejeezus out of this car, look for a good bodied basic 6 or 302, rather than higher dollar mach 1's etc. Even an unfinished project, with a good rolling shell. If you go down that route, bear in mind new front and rear frame rails are reasonably cheap, and for added stiffening, weld in some good quality connecting rods, effectively making your frame rails full length. A heap of real good bits can be got with what you save.Just a thought.
Cheers, Ron B

[littlejohn]

RHD is a pice of piss when you go the steering rack route......

[MachAttack]

See if you can find out some info on this one, '69 body on a BA Falcon:

http://www.ausmustangandford.com.au/contents/item/40-hey-true-blue-1969-mustang-sportsroof
I actually have the Australian Mustang and Ford Magazine edition featuring the car right in front of me, lots of work involved but he got it registered as an ICV. QLD car, engineer's name was Earl Gilchrest.

If you want to read it then send me a PM with your phone number, I can SMS you photos of each page.

[69candy]

Welcome. Look forward to the build. I wanted to do something similar, but ended up with a Cobra Jet!! So I'm still looking for a cheap shell. Parts are cheap to fix them up, and will be a lot easier to register at the other end

[crikeyrob]

Firstly, good step asking plenty of questions and planning it out before jumping right in. I wish I would have done a bit more of that before starting my project.

When you customize things it gets expensive. It's not the modifications to fit the engine and box that's too hard, but it's the endless list of flow on effects that each modification causes as you do it. And sometimes it's not the $$$, it's having the time, materials or people to help. This will cause the project to blow out time wise so be ready for this.

I'll send you me details via PM if you wanted to chat through my cars build (engineering, IFS setup, power steering box, a/c setup to new engine). It won't be exactly the same but similar.

[Pinto Pete]

If your looking for powered seats a lot of people have used AU/BA ute seats which can be fitted with electric bases or you could find something out of a late model asian or euro coupe with electrics but are that bit smaller and would fit slightly better.

[Lorik_Quiin]

Hey guys, just an update on my research progress.
From your comments and other sources, I'm liking the Dynacorn shell less and less, so I'm doing away with that idea, plus the hassle of the ICV process is more pain than its worth. I'll get a donor car preferably Australian registered, and maybe I'll be able to salvage a bunch of interior parts too which'll save me money at the end of the build.

You might want to get in touch with Ray Spence.

Thanks whitewun, I've gotten in touch with him, and it'll be great to get advice from him. Though I wont be doing the full build with him, as I'll be moving to QLD in 18 months, and I don't see much point in starting until after then.

You can contact Matt Shermatt one of the forum sponsors on this site, very helpful guy and I am sure he will find what you are looking for.

This guy sounds great! I'll try look for a donor car that's already registered in Australia, but if I cant find one I'll absolutely go through Shermatt :)

Here's a starter to transplant your Dynacorn chassis to.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MUSTANG-/181722838533?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item2a4f867605

The Coupe-to-Fastback conversion looks way above my skill level, I'm happy to fix up some old dodgy panelling here and there, but I'm not gonna be able to graft two halves of a car together.
I am considering the convertible though, opens up more options for cheap shells in Australia. Can anyone comment on how refurbished soft tops go for the Australian climate? (surviving the sun, staying waterproof in the rain, etc)

I'm planning to swap over to 1970 bolt-in mirrors as opposed to the '69 glue-in ones.

There is also a bunch of neat stuff made by MustangToFear that I'll probably end up getting:
- Power window regulator
- hood hinges with shocks not springs
- pretty much their entire swag of coyote swap parts including air intake, radiator, accelerator pedal bracket and exhaust

Does anyone know where to find some good resources on the original car's wiring? Looking to get my head around the original vehicles electronics and what i'll need to do for the build.

Cheers :)

[BossKraft]

I would never use a dynacorn shell and we work on Mustangs everyday of the week. I very much dislike the way they're built, too.

Yes, they come primed, but with every panel that comes in that primer, which is supposed to be electro-coat, we sand it back to bare metal and start again with EP, as the paint they use is NOT electro-coat. You'll usually find surface rust under their primer/s, too, or at least we have on many occasions, making it impossible to give warranty for our work unless we remove it first.

We recently did the engine bay of a '69 sportsroof, to accommodate a coyote 5.0, installing Boss 429 shock towers in it, so that it didn't have the typical 'Mustang II" front end, which is the easy option, I think. It looks tough with the Boss 9 front end in it and also like the factory made it.

[D0ZX]

I saw a thread on another forum on a Dynacorn body re-shell. Bit of googling should find it. Just make sure you do your research and know what you're getting yourself into.

I think a lot of people think a new Dynacorn body will be sweet not knowing the amount of re-work they actually need.

There were way too many issues, panel fit that bad having doors, the hood and cowl having metal added to the edges. Mounting points and holes in the wrong spots ect ect.

Regarding your rear suspension, Total Control; Products make great kits. I have their 4 link in my '70 Mach 1.

http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com/

Good luck with your project.

Chris

[D0ZX]

This is the post, it's the '67 but should give you an idea of the issues you may encounter.

http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/1967-dynacorn-fastback.858956/

[scedd1]

For wiring questions, hop on the Stangfix forum and look for Midlife. He is Florida based and does refurbished wiring looms for all mustangs. A mountain of knowledge.