4 bbl Carby on 289 C Code

[NWB1955]

Want to fit a 4 bbl, intake manifold and headers to get a bit more power from 289 C Code - whats the best brands/sizes and/or combination of the above to achieve a result ?

[GLENN 70]

  A duel plain intake manifold ,weiand action plus good for 0 to 5500 revs ,or a edelbrock performer 0 to 5500 revs also ,a 465 holley square bore vac sec ,headers, what ever you can get that fit well with a twin system  .Electronic dissy also and reset the timing to todays specs .

[Meaty0]

Edelbrock recommend this one (at the top of the page), but it is a high rise manifold so check hood clearance.  http://edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/manifolds/ford/perf_rpm-289.shtml

They also give recommendations for the correct Edelbrock carby - but opinions run hot and cold on their carbs.

[mert]

No real need for an RPM, a standard Performer as noted should do Ok, as I doubt you would be revving it much past 5000.... let alone to 6500...

+1 on a vac sec 465 Holley.

[Troy_H]

be aware of potential clearance issues with carb, spacers etc, especially if you want to run standard air cleaner.  I had to go with a flatter unit as the bonnet clearance was tight.

I was told to go the air gap manifold but didnt due to clearance, ended up with the edlebrock unit mentioned above. 

[66 Stang]

Im running the edelbrock performer, my brother inlaw is running the air gap, both are 66's and both run a 3 inch recessed base air filter, no clearance issues when using a holley Carb, niether car runs a spacer, as with the air gap, the air gap is supposed to act in the same manner as a spacer, hence the name...air gap.

Edelbrock carb, you will need the flatter GT 2 inch air cleaner, with both manifolds.

Mine runs the performer intake and hooker headers from Rocket, drives nice and sounds nice.

[birdman]

I'm running a Cobra manifold with 1 inch bakerlite spacer,465 Holley,3 inch dropbase aircleaner...No issues with clearance at all...Runs smooth with no issues...

[66dreama]

I run an edelbrock dual plane manifold 570 Holley street avenger carb
Headers from larrys mustang plus elec dizzy
Very happy with all (I did back the primary jets off one size from fact standards )

[GLENN 70]

 66dreama ,you have a nice combo ,the 570 holley is a bit big but is a great carby .A 465 would have worked a little better but the 570 is a better carby to work on and tune than a 465 .Its easier to rejet and set the float levels than the 465 and 600 holleys . Hope you redid your timing and set it around 10 deg and 32/34 total .

[ajaye01]

Hi Neil,

Regarding your initial request....I'm also running a stock 289 and have also been thinking of adding a bit more power without going overboard insofar as diveability, looks and (of course) cost.

I've pretty much narrowed down my best options as being the replacement of the old points with a set of electronic points and upgraded coil from Pertronics, replacing my stock exhaust with a set of mild, tuned headers (from the likes of Pacemaker of Hedman) and finally replacing my intake manifold and carb with an Edelbrock 600 and matched manifold.

The total cost looks to be around the $1,500 mark which isn't too bad for the expected HP gains.

Much of the stuff can certainly be sourced cheaper from the US so if you'd like to talk about sharing a shipment to save costs I'd certainly be interested.

I see you're relatively new to the forum, so welcome. 

Anthony.

[Veronica]

The best 4bbl carb ever built at any time by anyone anywhere  in the galaxy  is the Autolite 4100. With everything else being equal, your car will run better, get crisper throttle response, require far less tinkering, and get better fuel economy than it would with any other carburetor. The difference is actually striking. A Holley requires regular 'tweeking' sessions, especially the new ones. An Edelbrock is difficult to get right, and doesn't seem to stay right for very long. You get it set right, the season changes, and you have to get it right again. If the idle fuel mixture is slightly off, the car performs poorly on the transition circuit, and the rebuild kits are waaay more expensive than they need to be, which is always an issue on cars that aren't driven daily. Demons just straight up drown a 289. The 4100, on the other hand, represents the pinnacle of carburetor research and development in the United States. It was before emissions regulations started choking carbs to death, fuel prices started making people shy away from 4 bbl carbs, and actual research started leaning more towards various systems of fuel injection instead of carburetors. The 4100 is as good as it gets for 4bbl carbs. It stands head and shoulders above anything else. In case you haven't noticed, I like the 4100s. 

[ajaye01]

Veronica..... In the worlds of a great Aussie..."you're dreamin' "   

I'm sure the R & D guys at Edelbrock, Holley, Weber etc. etc would be thrilled to think that the past 50 odd years have yielded no improvement whatsoever over the carbie designed and installed back in the 60's.   

[66 Hertz]

Careful ajaye01.......your dreaming..........the humble 4100 is regarded very highly in Carburetor circles, It is simple, efficient and rarely ever plays up. I agree with Veronica. Most people change them because they think something will be better than their old one and simply end up with a Holley or something similar which is usually way too big for their application.
Take a look here.

http://classicinlines.com/autolitecarbs.asp

[IGALOP]

 
Sorry to say Ajaye but the 2100  &  4100 Autolite Carby's are well known as extremely reliable in performance terms, to many different car manufacturers.
The Windsor V8 engine family is also a very old design, but still powers millions of cars around the globe exceptionally well.

[Veronica]

Veronica..... In the worlds of a great Aussie..."you're dreamin' "   

I'm sure the R & D guys at Edelbrock, Holley, Weber etc. etc would be thrilled to think that the past 50 odd years have yielded no improvement whatsoever over the carbie designed and installed back in the 60's.   

How thrilled the R&D people at Edelbrock, Holley, Weber, etc....  might or might not be with me is not really my problem.  According to my husband, pissing people off is what I do best. And, if you catch one of those folks half drunk and leaning towards honest, they would tell you the same thing that I did. About the 4100, that is, not about my proficiency at pissing people off. 

[shaunp]

Autolites are great carbs on a mild engine, I really think though the best larger carb is actually a Rotchester Quadra jet, GM I know but these are one wickered carb, just not many people understand them. For anything like a 6  or 4 cyling engine weber or SU are the only carbs to have.

[evan]

Seven years ago, I swapped my very sick Autolite 4100 for a Holley 600 & had it jetted to suit. It runs great apart from minor hot start issues due to heat soak. A good friend in the US, restores Mustangs & is on the same page as Veronica. He's been pushing me for years to fix the 4100. A couple of weeks back, I stripped, cleaned & completely rebuilt it. I bolted it back on, turned the key & she fired. Ran as well as the Holley although if I had to pick, I'd say the Autolite was smoother through acceleration. Unfortunately, things deteriorated rapidly & it started running a little rough followed by randon severe flooding from both primaries & secondaries. I have a few theories & maybe Veronica & others can offer some advice:
1. The new brass seats were taller than the old ones & limited float travel (see attached pic). Because of this, I used the new needles with my old seats.
2. My floats never had the dampening springs fitted & they're rare as hen's teeth.
3. Fuel pressure too high? When cold, pressure is 6.75 & when warm, drops to 5.5.

For now, the Holley stays but ideally would like to get the 4100 right.

Evan.

[Veronica]

If, by severe flooding, you mean that fuel was gushing out of the vent tubes, that is caused by the needle not seating properly, which is almost always the result of a fuel problem of some sort, like some little chunk of crud in the fuel got stuck in the seat and is blocking the needle from closing. Some variation of the 'float stuck' theme. Your fuel pressure is a bit high. It should never exceed 6 p.s.i. and ideally would be below 5 at idle. The buoyancy of the float is all that there is to resist the fuel pressure, so if the pressure coming in exceeds the pressure exerted by the buoyancy of the float, the fuel will keep coming in, and it has nowhere to go except for out the vent tubes. The bottom line, though, would be if that carb was running fine and started going south pretty quickly, that is most likely a fuel problem, like a batch of bad gas, or the car sat too long with gas in the tank, possibly the fuel filter had figured out a way to let some crud through, or something like that. That would be where I started my investigation. 

[GLENN 70]

If it was running fine then flooding, it will have something in the needle /seat .This happens quite often when changing carbs ,the rubber fuel line crumbles on the ends when refitting and that goes into the carby and causing flooding .Fuel pressure should be between 4.5 lbs and no more than 6.5 lbs max , unless running hi pressure needle and seats . 6.5 lbs  is only for hi revs, race car engines ,you need volume not hi pressure unless fuel injected .

[evan]

Thanks for the input Guys.

I was having a chat with somebody tonight & he also agreed that the pressure seemed high. I have a Speco adjustable pressure regulator I can try. I've read alot of negative comments about these units but this Guy's been using one for years without issue.

The other thing he pointed out was that I shouldn't be using mismatched needles & seats. I need to track down a suitable set or do some serious bending of the floats to get more travel. I might just have to grind the tops of the seats down.

Evan.

[GT Sally]

I bought my 289 A code (C4 auto) with stock manifold & original headers fitted with a 6oocfm holley rejetted & a pointless dizzie, pretty sure the motor is stock...ran well....I've since fitted PaceMaker extractors, 2 1/4 pipes with Lukey mufflers, without tuning & it runs really well for a stocker, & good economy on the highway

[GLENN 70]

Its more likely the needle and seats ,fuel pressure will change with heat .What fuel pump are you running ,because most pumps wont pump that high unless they need a regulator from factory .

[evan]

You're right Glenn, the fuel pressure drops with heat but may still be a little high.
My dilemma is finding the correct needle & seat. As you can see in the photo, the new seats are too tall. I'm hoping somebody else has seen this before & can shed some light. I don't know where to get the correct ones for my carb.

Evan.

[Veronica]

Part of the problem with this carb could be because neither one of those seats is correct. The seat for a 4100 is removed and installed with a 3/8 wrench, not a flat-bladed screwdriver, and they don't have that slot in the side of them. 

[evan]

Can you recommend anybody that might carry the correct ones? The one on the left was fitted to the car when it left California. I believe that the previous owner had just kitted it before sending the car to me. The right one came in a rebuild kit I bought in Australia but I've seen these exact kits advertised in the US.

I came across this which looks like an interesting alternative: http://macsautoparts.com/ford-thunderbird-carburetor-needle-seat-for-ford-autolite-4100-series-4-bbl-carburetor-b7a-9564/camid/THU/cp/JS0R3CHL1142932/

Evan.
P.S. Apologies to NWB1955 for the thread hijack!