Think its time for new engine

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Author Topic: Think its time for new engine  (Read 9637 times)

Offline cap70

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Think its time for new engine
« on: November 11, 2012, 09:27:13 am »
My Engine has started to burn oil badly, had planned on rebuilding it or replacing eventually but looks like it will have to be sooner than anticipated.
Has anybody used the ford racing crate engine http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=11752.
eagle autos have 2 in stock for 5,600.
im pretty sure all need to fit this to my car would be the 50oz balanced flywheel and a 4 bolt lower pulley.
the rest of my parts should just bolt on.
altho im also thinking of  getting a new inlet manifold currently have edlebrock torker, i think a performer or air gap would be better suited.
not sure about the headers, i was told the gt40 heads still have normal spark plug angle and standard headers will fit.

Offline shaunp

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Re: Think its time for new engine
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2012, 05:40:47 pm »
GT40 P have a different plug angle. You will need 50oz balance and flywheel. If your car is a manual you can get your flywheel rebalanced, if an auto just buy a new 50oz flex plate. Airgaps are a good manifold but they run a bit cold at start up if you live down south.

Offline Frank70

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Re: Think its time for new engine
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2012, 06:08:59 pm »
The engine in the link has the 'X' heads - so has the normal SBF plug angle.

Cheers,
Frank.

Offline Petey

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Re: Think its time for new engine
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2012, 01:20:36 pm »
Hi cap70,
Why not rebuild the one you have? A rebore, balance and blue print plus a decent stroker kit and mild cam you could probably get out of it for the same money as a new engine block. At least you will know what you have and not risk buying something unreliable, or worse, poor performer. Keep your old flywheel, harmonic balancer and inlet manifold as well, if they don't need replacing due to wear.
Unless you are looking for really big engine performance gains, but I guess that's not really where you are going. 
From my research, the high HP engines will set you back over $12,000.00 up to $20,000.00 and that becomes an exercise where you need to consider things like 4 bolt mains, new block, forged rods/pistons, big camshafts, etc. Not really good value for a weekend cruiser.
I rebuilt my old block (after chemical clean, sonic test & x-ray) had the whole rotating assembly balanced and blue printed, then fitted Edelbrock Performer heads with Air gap manifold and a good Crane camshaft. I did go a little heavy with shot peened rods and hypotech pistons, but that was because the old stuff was not worth re-using in a high compression engine. Just for insurance, ARP bolts throughout and a main stud girdle fitted. The lot cost me less than $8,000.00 and although I am just running it in, the torque improvement and responsive high rev performance is staggeringly better than before.
My mechanical knowledge is self taught and I love a challenge, so this engine was completely assembled at home.
Save your money with an engine rebuild and put it into better brakes, suspension, transmission, if any of these items are not up to scratch.
PT

R_Beckhaus

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Re: Think its time for new engine
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2012, 01:48:17 pm »
 Even the cost of a late model (90's) reconditioned engine to replace the old 289 can get up there in price. I recently did just that- 5.0L roller cam motor, fully recon with warranty for 4.7k, gearbox o'haul at 1.2k, installation costs and an electronic power steer upgrade and a pinion seal in the diff. All up cost was 15.5k. I am happy with that as I know I can drive it anywhere without the worry of a major meltdown. I might add, I'm never selling this car, so over capitalising on it is not a concern of mine as it already owes me 20k more than it's market value (what with it,s new paint, too  :evilone: ). who cares, cause I don't!  :thumb:
cheers, Ron B

Offline cap70

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Re: Think its time for new engine
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2012, 06:46:45 pm »
Hi PT,
well a rebuild would cost more than 6k and thats only if the block is up to it, i know it has been re-bored at least once and when i changed the water pump
i could see the water journals where badly corroded.
the stang is pretty much a daily driver so didnt want to go the 347 route which every engine builder i have spoken to is trying to sell me

Offline shaunp

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Re: Think its time for new engine
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2012, 09:51:25 pm »
From what I hear most engine builders seem to be clowns, having said that, never been to one so have no first hand experience. I've always done my own engines anything form Jag V12s to Holden red motors. If you are not keen to ,have go  though, something like a ford racing create is probably as safer bet as any, more likly to honour the warrenty. They are nothing special, GT40 heads are better than stock, 302, but nothing like some of the other  beter aftermarket heads.

 Heads and cam is what makes the power, the rest just has to hang in there, stock crank and rods are fine for most applications, as long as you fit ARP bolts as Petey has suggested, mainly the rod bolts are the issue here, these bolts are not expensive & good insurance.
 AFR & Trickflow are about the best Windsor heads out there, for most fast street / very fast street applications, if you can stretch to them. These heads are good for a large HP gain as soon as you bolt them, even with nothing more than a small cam, but with an agrressive roller cam a 302 with some AFR 185s or Trickflow twisted wedge heads, is good for well over 400hp. Both of these heads hve good flow with small ports to keep up gas speed, they are very effective.  AFR's a fully cnc ported, they will do them with larger exhuast port for a blower, or Nitros, if required. The stock springs are fine for most flat tappet cams, but you need to swap them for a steep roller.


« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 10:02:51 pm by shaunp »

Offline cap70

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Re: Think its time for new engine
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2012, 10:31:50 pm »
Hi Shaunp,
Its more about not wanting the stang off the road long, and also my shed isnt built yet so dont have anywhere to work on a motor.
I had been looking at getting a dart block and building an eng with mild cam and using the afr or patriot heads.
eagle have a couple of cheaper remanufactured engines but as you said i think the ford racing one would be less likely to have any warranty issues.

Offline Petey

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Re: Think its time for new engine
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2012, 07:06:45 am »
If a quick turnaround is your primary concern, a crate engine is the best option. Definitely go with a brand name product for the sake of warranty.
PT

Offline Frank70

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Re: Think its time for new engine
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2012, 11:27:41 am »
... I recently did just that- 5.0L roller cam motor, fully recon with warranty for 4.7k, gearbox o'haul at 1.2k, installation costs and an electronic power steer upgrade and a pinion seal in the diff. All up cost was 15.5k. .

Gee Ron , sounds great, but how did you jump up from under $6k for the crate engine and tranny rebuild to $15.5 k ? 
Must be some fancy electronic p/s you got there !

I am looking at a 351W crate from Eagle - 400hp is just the right number - for $7k or so.  Manual tranny that probably needs a freshen up and prob diff too.
Will install myself with the help of a friend who is a mechanic. I was originally looking at building a motor but not confident enough to figure out stuff like pushrod length and breaking it in properly etc.

Cheers,
Frank.

R_Beckhaus

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Re: Think its time for new engine
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2012, 12:08:04 pm »
Those costs didn't include shipping, installation,match balancing of flywheel, removal of heater install p/s unit (from an Astra) to fit my XB steering box etc. relocating underbonnet furniture, desert cooler radiator...Bits n pieces add up, and as I cannot do this work myself,I paid for quality workmanship. The results are excellent. Motor has 32 valves, roller cam, single plane hi rise manifold, Holley Performer 600vac sec carb, pacemaker tuned length long pipe headers, electronic ignition and a hi output water pump and I kid you not when I boast that it goes like all stink! It's away now being air conditioned for my summer cruising comfort.   :burnout: CPU just added my signature pics with car in it's new viper red paint.  :thumb: 
cheers, Ron B

Offline Frank70

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Re: Think its time for new engine
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2012, 12:18:17 pm »
Those costs didn't include shipping, installation,match balancing of flywheel, removal of heater install p/s unit (from an Astra) to fit my XB steering box etc. relocating underbonnet furniture, desert cooler radiator...Bits n pieces add up, and as I cannot do this work myself,I paid for quality workmanship. The results are excellent. Motor has 32 valves, roller cam, single plane hi rise manifold, Holley Performer 600vac sec carb, pacemaker tuned length long pipe headers, electronic ignition and a hi output water pump and I kid you not when I boast that it goes like all stink! It's away now being air conditioned for my summer cruising comfort.   :burnout: CPU just added my signature pics with car in it's new viper red paint.  :thumb: 
cheers, Ron B

Yeah , the extra bits and pieces add up ... sounds great, but what motor did you get ? 32 valves ? The modular motor with a carby ?

Cheers,
Frank

Offline shaunp

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Re: Think its time for new engine
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2012, 12:41:58 pm »
Yeah , the extra bits and pieces add up ... sounds great, but what motor did you get ? 32 valves ? The modular motor with a carby ?

Cheers,
Frank

Mistake I think. It won't have a modular engine with out some extensive mods like notched towers etc. It's running pacemakers, has to be a windsor. 302 roller engine I'd say.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 12:47:07 pm by shaunp »

Offline ponyride

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Re: Think its time for new engine
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2012, 01:18:16 pm »
FWIW in answer to your initial question, I've had a '66 with a 5.0L Ford Racing Engine in it. I don't know the specs of it but it was a magnificent engine, it revved freely and was very fast. The alloy heads are a huge improvement. I can't comment on longevity and reliability etc because I don't have it now but it certainly was a performer!
Rick

R_Beckhaus

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Re: Think its time for new engine
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2012, 01:19:42 pm »
I believe it's a late 90's early 2000's 5.0l windsor mustang engine. It did come from the states, via a supplier to Phil Whickham, who did the work.
Cheers Ron B
PS, the heads are cast iron I think as the whole thing was painted black (now blue)
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 01:21:21 pm by R_Beckhaus »

Offline shaunp

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Re: Think its time for new engine
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2012, 01:42:18 pm »
FWIW in answer to your initial question, I've had a '66 with a 5.0L Ford Racing Engine in it. I don't know the specs of it but it was a magnificent engine, it revved freely and was very fast. The alloy heads are a huge improvement. I can't comment on longevity and reliability etc because I don't have it now but it certainly was a performer!
As for longevity. a 302 roller engine looked after and not flogged too much will do 300k+ km no trouble. We put one in a mates 65 FB that came out of a NC Fairlane, fitted it complete with the 4 speed electronic auto, and it is like new, it's done well 200K

R_Beckhaus

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Re: Think its time for new engine
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2012, 09:16:05 am »
I owe all an apology. I revisited my reciepts last night and realised my engine swap etc was a bit over 9K, the repaint was 15.5. sorry if I misled anyone.
Cheers, Ron B

Offline Petey

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Re: Think its time for new engine
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2012, 07:56:10 am »
Always a bit scary when you go back over old receipts. I try to forget how much has been spent on mine and concentrate on having a good time just driving!
PT

R_Beckhaus

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Re: Think its time for new engine
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2012, 08:54:35 am »
yeah, you're not wrong there, PT. , but mine's away again and I can't drive it till it gets back next week  :cry:

Offline cap70

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Re: Think its time for new engine
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2012, 04:25:20 pm »
Ok well i was going to get the 306 from eagle but they had none left in stock, have instead ordered a bottom end from pavtek.
Using a dart shp block with scat crank and probe pistons will be a 347 as they had the parts there ready to assemble.
Im going to put an edelbrock E-Street top end kit on, trying to keep it streetable going to have a lot more power anyway with the extra cubes.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2012, 04:27:13 pm by cap70 »

Offline DUNRITE66

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Re: Think its time for new engine
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2012, 11:53:02 am »
A DART SHP 302 BLOCK IS AROUND $1700 BARE.... SCAT STROKER FROM $1100 FOR CAST CRANK/I BEAM/ HYPER PISTON COMBO OR  UPTO $1700 FOR STEEL CRANK /H BEAM /FORGED PISTON.... BLOCK YOU CAN BUY IN STANDARD 4.00" BORE OR GO 4.125" AND GET 363 CUBES OVER 347... SAME MONEY BUT YOU GET A BIT MORE TORQUE..... THE BLOCK REALLY ONLY NEEDS A LIGHT HONE FOR RINGS AND IF YOU ARE CHASING POWER THEN DUMY UP ASSEMBLY AND WORK OUT DECK HEIGHT TO GO ZERO DECK AND CYLINDER HEAD COMBO FOR COMPRESSION ..... PERSONALLY WOULD GO AFR'S OVER E STREET EDELBROCKS.....  E STREETS ARE GENERALLY FOR STOCK REPLACEMENT .... AFR'S CHEAP NOW ANYWAY..... 185'S FOR AROUND $1600..... EDELBROCK PERFORMERS ARE ABOUT $1500 AND E-STREETS $1100..... 58CC HEADS WITH A FLAT TOP PISTON SHOULD GIVE YOU ABOUT 10.5 - 1 COMP ...... GOOD FOR STREET WITH A HYDRAULIC ROLLER.....