Author Topic: Windsor or Cleveland? (Read 20668 times)

JT_1994 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 22, 2012, 05:27:16 pm »

Oh, So with a Clevo it doesn't matter what you start with 302/351 you can still get it to 393 anyway? the only difference between 302C and 351C were the internals / Heads ?

shaunp · « **Reply #26 on:** February 22, 2012, 08:38:49 pm »

That's right but there a few different heads, 4v 2v open chamber, boss 302 etc. The main reason why clevos have a rep for big power is the factory heads breath way better the factory windsors, with the canted valves etc. Windsor aftermarket heads are very good now, AFR and Trickflow, work very well, but with better low torque than a 4v clevo.
You'll more power than you need from a windsor, and all bitts are cheaper and pipes etc are easily purchased. Leave the clevos for the Xys and Mach 1s. I've got one in a XY GT faker.

DUNRITE66 · « **Reply #27 on:** February 22, 2012, 11:31:29 pm »

why dont you message Steph/BLKPNY..... he has a 418 stroked Windsor in his coupe i think.... he will tell you what is good and what is bad about it all.... it's the torque that you want.... anyone building tuff engines is going for cubes or twin turbos.... a standard 289 had 200hp and approx 280 ft pd torque.... my 347 stroker has made 430 ft pd torque... i have taken it for one drive around the block so far as i haven't sorted it yet but what a difference.... i could imagine what another 61 cubes would do if i stroked a 351 windsor.....the pulling power is awesome.....

JT_1994 · « **Reply #28 on:** February 23, 2012, 08:02:44 pm »

What kind of setup are you running on your 347? Is it a clevo or windsor?
I don't think I want to go as serious as 393 (I still want to be able to put fuel in it.. LOL)
so something like 347 - 393. Is there a middle ground (excluding 351) that would still offer loads of torque but not its weight in fuel an hour?

Good feedback,
Thanks

:gpost:

evan · « **Reply #29 on:** February 23, 2012, 08:28:26 pm »

The 347 is a popular stroker option for the Windsor 289 & 302, not the Clevo. There's no point making a 347 Clevo considering the fact that 351 cranks exist.

Have you considered the extra size/weight of the Clevo? Did your model Mustang ever come out with a clevo? Will you have rego issues? Will it overheat in traffic? (sorry, had to slip that in. I've had both a 302C & 351C & both hated traffic. Ran cool as once you got moving though). I find my little Windsor runs cool all the time.

Evan.

JT_1994 · « **Reply #30 on:** February 23, 2012, 08:39:07 pm »

My car is a T code, and it won't be driven in peak hour traffic... I hadn't considered the weight of a clevo but is it really that much difference anyway? The brakes, suspension and front end components have mostly been swapped in for slightly newer falcon parts to cope with a V8 (other than the motor, which the PO was going to be swap out for an 8 but didn't get a chance to...)

"Theres no point making a 347 Clevo considering the fact that the 351 crank exists."
Thats probably true, but what other options are there other than a 393? Or would a 351 be better?

Ash · « **Reply #31 on:** February 23, 2012, 09:31:15 pm »

What state are you in and what rules do they have for putting a Clevo in?

More then likely if you drop a 302W block (wont matter what internals) you'll just have to get an engine number change over done as your car came out with a Windsor from factory. If you get a Clevo put it, you'll have to go through engineering and that is a whole big can of worms I'd be doing anything to avoid. Why go through all that when you can use the Windsor with no hassles and no engineering costs. That's the rules here in NSW anyway.

A tickled 347 Windsor is going to leave enough stains on your drivers seat anyway. And if the day comes when you want more power, supercharge it!!:burnout:

JT_1994 · « **Reply #32 on:** February 23, 2012, 09:43:59 pm »

Im in Victoria and being a T code never even had a V8...
I have just read the vic roads site and it says...

2. Replacement engine is not of a type offered by the vehicle manufacturer as an option for that vehicle or where alterations, or changes to the vehicle's frame or structure are made, and/or specially fabricated supports or structures are used
You will need to attend a VicRoads Customer Service Centre for an inspection of the vehicle to confirm the new engine details. You will also need to complete a Change of Vehicle Description form and provide VicRoads with:
a VASS Approval Certificate from a VicRoads Vehicle Assessment Signatory
an original receipt for the purchase of the engine as proof of ownership of the engine
- Vicroads website (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/PermitsModificationsAndDefects/Modifications/NotifyingVicRoadsOfChangesAndModifications.htm)

Anyone had experience in this area (registering an early stang with a clevo?)

Ash · « **Reply #33 on:** February 23, 2012, 10:03:46 pm »

Even though it was a T-code, it should be the same process as for example, converting a 6cyl XE to a V8. The V8 was offered that for that model, as was your car, so all you do is use all the V8 components that were available from factory.

evan · « **Reply #34 on:** February 23, 2012, 11:04:21 pm »

Quote from: Ash link=topic=17171.msg172050#msg172050

Even though it was a T-code, it should be the same process as for example, converting a 6cyl XE to a V8. The V8 was offered that for that model, as was your car, so all you do is use all the V8 components that were available from factory.

Although the early Mustangs came out with V8's, they didn't come out with Clevo's. I think you're asking for trouble.

Evan.

Ash · « **Reply #35 on:** February 24, 2012, 07:26:59 am »

Exactly Evan, I think it is not worth considering. The modification path is getting harder and harder. At the moment here in NSW I think getting anything signed off by an engineer is near impossible.

Best to stick to what came out in the car that year from Ford. Who cares what internals it has, stroke the crap out it. Just use the right block to breeze through inspection.

As it has been said already, both Clevo and Windsor have their pros and cons. But for this car, or any pre-70 Mustang, I think the Windsor is the only choice in a small block.

IGALOP · « **Reply #36 on:** February 24, 2012, 07:40:36 am »

Quote from: evan link=topic=17171.msg172057#msg172057

Quote from: Ash link=topic=17171.msg172050#msg172050
Even though it was a T-code, it should be the same process as for example, converting a 6cyl XE to a V8. The V8 was offered that for that model, as was your car, so all you do is use all the V8 components that were available from factory.

Although the early Mustangs came out with V8's, they didn't come out with Clevo's. I think you're asking for trouble.

Evan.

:agree:A slightly warmed 347 Windsor will give you heaps of smiles, both on the road and at Vicroads!:thumb:

JT_1994 · « **Reply #37 on:** February 24, 2012, 04:18:06 pm »

I have done a bit of reading about the install of the stroker kits into a 302 block, and that there is extra stress on the cylinder walls because of the stroke as well as the notching of the cylinder skirts so the rod bolts don't foul on the block are any of these issues?

shaunp · « **Reply #38 on:** February 24, 2012, 08:08:59 pm »

No issue with this.

JT_1994 · « **Reply #39 on:** February 24, 2012, 08:40:36 pm »

I know I could spend thousands getting it built professionally but would it be easy enough for me to do myself. With the exception of any machine work I would like to do as much as I can to both keep costs down as well as to learn about the motor that will be in my car so if something goes wrong I would have a better chance of fixing it...
What kind of things are people running in their motors? (If you don't mind sharing)
- heads
- ignition system
- carb
- rotating assembly
- intake
- headers (to suit a '67 preferably)
- cam
and what kind of C/R would be best for a motor such as this?

Thanks,

JT

DUNRITE66 · « **Reply #40 on:** February 24, 2012, 10:14:15 pm »

what are you planning on doing with the car.... sunday cruiser... friday/saturday night special or strip car.... how fat is your back pocket.... anything you want to do costs.. that's when it's done properly and with the right parts.... where are you located... if you are local then come down to the work shop... we have about 4 windsors on stands that have all been rebuilt with different power options to give you an idea... stick to the windsor... if my car is finished then i can take you for a run and you can make up your mind if you want to spend the money on a stroker.... if you have a six banger in it now then even a stock 289 will feel different.....

JT_1994 · « **Reply #41 on:** February 24, 2012, 10:46:25 pm »

I have driven a 289 before... big difference (although it doesn't have p/steering and mine does). The car (for the most part will be a daily driver) and I expect to be able to put a few $1000 over a few years although I don't have boatloads to spend on it...

JT_1994 · « **Reply #42 on:** February 26, 2012, 04:02:20 pm »

OK then,

How about 351W vs 347 stroker, what would the preference be there??

Even though I don't really want to spend 10s of thousands of $$$$ on it I would definitely be doing the heads, intake and a 4bbl carb. (something similar to a 600cfm)

JT_1994 · « **Reply #43 on:** February 26, 2012, 05:03:26 pm »

Quote from: moe link=topic=17171.msg172283#msg172283

If comparing a 351W to a 347 stroker, why not look at stroking the 351W to over 400cubes?

400 cubes is A LOT. Too much in fact, I don't want to make it a ridiculous build, just a high torque small block V8...

DUNRITE66 · « **Reply #44 on:** February 26, 2012, 05:16:29 pm »

Quote from: JT_1994 link=topic=17171.msg172280#msg172280

OK then,

How about 351W vs 347 stroker, what would the preference be there??

Even though I don't really want to spend 10s of thousands of $$$$ on it I would definitely be doing the heads, intake and a 4bbl carb. (something similar to a 600cfm)

351 windsor will be cheaper than setting up a 347 stroker ... you can buy a 351 windsor as a stocky or modified and run with it till you make up your mind if you want more power and torque...then build it into a stroker.... will just have to buy custom pipes or steph/BLKPNY i am sure will steer you in the right direction for those.... if you are in melbourne then i would say come down to my shop as the guy across the road from me has a 65 with a mild 351 windsor and i have just finished my 347 stroker.... he drives his car every where... if i had seen how nice it sits in there and doesn't seem any tighter than a 289 then i would have stroked a 351 to 418.. i am sure some would disagree once it comes to changing spark plugs.... only thing is then you have to get it engineered but technically your supposed to do that to a 347 as well....

Macka · « **Reply #45 on:** February 26, 2012, 05:18:37 pm »

JT, I put a stroker in my 351W and put a girdle on the bottom end and opened the head ports a bit, electronic dizzy and suitable stroker cam, the torque produced is amazing. It's the lightweight way of producing big block power.

You'd never go back.

JT_1994 · « **Reply #46 on:** March 06, 2012, 04:13:35 pm »

http://www.dragzine.com/tech-stories/engine/top-10-tips-for-building-for-your-first-351w-stroker/

found this a few days ago... I am assuming most of it would apply to 347 vs 331 stroker?

Macka · « **Reply #47 on:** March 06, 2012, 04:28:37 pm »

JT, No.. its pretty basic stuff which will carry right through all sizes.

Mine started as a 351W but now has the size and power of a sporty big block and its far lighter. Make sure you use good quality components though and remember the rest of your driveline.

JT_1994 · « **Reply #48 on:** March 06, 2012, 04:47:50 pm »

I don't really need to worry about the rest of the driveline... It has a 6cyl at the moment and I will probably have to swap it all out to suit a V8 anyway... with the exception of suspension components and brakes (they have already been swapped over to suit a V8) it will be all swapped over...

stangLover · « **Reply #49 on:** March 06, 2012, 05:06:06 pm »

My 2c worth:
I was umming and arring about clevo, windsor 351 or even big block etc...
What I ended up with after purchasing a clevo 351 then selling it, then purchasing a 351 windsor and selling that too.....
I ended up with a brand new DART block with AFR 225 Heads, MSD ignition......but I also had to change the gearbox to Tremec TKO600, 9" inch diff, hydraulic clutch conversion.....I'm sure I've left a lot out, but you can see how changing one thing leads to a whole lot more change.:violin:
Now that it's done I'm :redpepper:

Windsor or Cleveland?

News:

Author Topic: Windsor or Cleveland? (Read 20668 times)