Am I the only one sick of American con men?

[Mustangpaul]

here is a paste of my last reply to a thread on an American Mustang Forum, Just wondering if I am the only one who feels like this? Does anyone have any thoughts on a petition to someone who cares? Maybe a club letter to the President of America, listing as many grievances as we can? Please provide your grievances here

.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ************* View Post
lot of americans are complaining of the condition of cars they buy sight unseen here in america. people look at fotos of a nice car, buy the car and a junked out rustbucket arrives. i understand its hard to look at a car in person when you live in a different country. a professional appraiser is worth hiring.

My Reply:

Either that or we could ask that people become liable for being lying, cheating, worthless con men and sue some of their ar**s, meanwhile being able to rely on any sort of law when we need it.

It is not a lot to ask, if someone says something we should be allowed to believe them. When were the licenses given out to con anyone who makes the mistake of believing us?

If any lawyers read this constant plea for some sort of justice could you please PM me?

[67fasty.sm]

You Know its funny , we humans are a strange lot we will buy a car from overseas sight unseen other than some pics to save a $1000 bucks for an inspection , so then when it arrives it costs $5000 to fix but having said that it still didn't help me
When I brought my 67 fb I sort of knew it was a junker but thats what I wanted but I still didn't bank on what I got .
After inspection its was described as good solid body and thats all I wanted. WWWEEEELLLLL




all hidden under 2 ton of bog but on the same token it was cheap and cause I am doing all the repair work its not cost much and that what i enjoy doing

[IGALOP]

I'm sorry to say this, but "buyer beware" usually applies to this sort of deal.  
You just have to do heaps more homework and get it checked FULLY by a truly trusted source before importing.
There are very few, if any, shortcuts you should take to save money. This is just purely, false economy.
Every year there are poor souls on here who get absolutely smashed, by these shysters and then need real cheap, quick and expert repairs done as they have spent their whole budget on getting a bucket of bog in from the states.
Please guys and girls, do your homework more diligently and thoroughly.:comp:
A lot of these sellers don't give a continental about what happens here in Oz. They have their moolah and will not be held responsible for any comeback...........period!
It will be hopelessly expensive to try to pursue any legal claims.
In saying all of the above, you will at least get some sympathy and good advice on this forum, to remedy your bad investment.
Just be prepared to swallow a little pride and ask for assistance and help, but be warned.......................you are not the 1st in this situation, and will not be the last! Good luck!

[JimNiki]

judging by those few photos alone, if that car was a horse ...

[StephenSLR]

You Know its funny , we humans are a strange lot we will buy a car from overseas sight unseen other than some pics to save a $1000 bucks for an inspection

It can be even cheaper than that, it can pay to ask around the US car forums, you'll usually find members living near by and I know one guy who had a car inspected for $50.

It was a brief inspection of a dealer's car, he wanted flawless paint and it saved him buying a car with a 10 foot paint job.

s

[Mustangpaul]

judging by those few photos alone, if that car was a horse ...

One thin I hate more than getting shafted is supplying the grease for them to shaft me with.

It is still hard enough to make a correct decision when someone is genuinely trying to tell the truth. There are 6 essential elements to a contract.

Intent  Genuine Consent
Legalities of objects
Formalities and consideration
Cotractual Capacity
Agreemnet Offer and Acceptance
Certainty

If one party to a contract knows the other party is making a mistake and does not voluntarilly tell that other party they are causing a Unilateral Mistake an d the contract becomnes voidable at the other parties option. Under these circumstances a contract lacks Genuine Consent.

All of this means nothing after the conman has your money in America it seems?

Fraud is present when False statements of fact accompanied with Reckless actions that the person knows will be Acted upon as well as knowing the statements are Untrue and are likely to cause  Damages.

What good is knowing this while the conmen know it doesn't matter?

The squeaky wheel always gets the grease. I still believe we should try and Get USA to realise the cons are happening and ask that country to settle their dogs down.

Will we next have to test any gold or diamonds, will unqualified doctors be allowed to operate because we didn't check their degree, lose our superannuation, eat poison because we don't check that either?

If a thief steals from an unlocked door does it exonerate the thief?

Today I checked the feedback history of a man who prides himself of owning over 200 Mustangs and selling spare parts for 15 years. He was the person who purchased the car from the person whos name is on the Title Paper I was presented with when I purchased my Mustang. {He has told me he was not however the person who sold the car to me}. When I checked his feedback profile he had good feed back as a buyer 6 pages of parts and cars etc. but no mention of anything sold under that name on ebay. He says he does not know the seller of the car to me but has not provided any information to help me find out why the seller of the car to me forged the Bill of Sale. I have to wonder how he sells his cars, or does he still have the 200 of them?

[StephenSLR]

I still believe we should try and Get USA to realise the cons are happening and ask that country to settle their dogs down.

Fat chance, we can't even get our govt. to stop it happening here.

There's bound to be loopholes where they find the seller did mention things that are ambiguous but has him covered all the way.

You may have a chance if it's a dealer but I'm sure they've got their arses covered as well.

'Caveat Emptor' is in latin for a reason - it's been used in countless court cases.

s

[IGALOP]

Unfortunately Mustangpaul1, it is usually assumed that the buyer exercises due diligence, both legally and physically.
Legal ownership is a very grey area here.
Neglect or purposeful understatement by the seller, particularly in another country is a common occurance in private person to person transactions. Legal challenge is also hugely difficult.
Who was the legal owner in the USA? Who gave approval for exporting from USA/importing to Australia? Who's opinion of condition will stand up in a court of law? etc. etc.
Gee there are so many questions unanswered with this transaction, by the looks of it.
I reckon your only means of retribution is to pursue the legal owner angle and export approval process.
It would be nice to nail one of these "gentlemen"! Good luck and keep us informed.

[StephenSLR]

Keep in mind you're buying a 2nd hand product, it doesn't fall under the same jurisdiction as new products with warranties, etc.

If the seller has the line 'sold as is' in their ad they're covered completely and it's up to you to make sure you've checked it thoroughly to satisfy yourself before buying.

s

[soc123_au]

If it walks like a duck & quacks like a duck.......

We all know what a quality example of each model is worth. If we buy a car at well under it's market value, then we roll the dice and take our chances. Sadly most of the duds that arrive in Australia are purchased at dud prices. Our greed is nearly as bad as the con artists. There is a few cases of people being genuinely shafted. Rock65 is one example. But many have walked right into it, myself included.

[StephenSLR]

Getting back to the question of settling down the dogs, if it's a case of genuine fraud I believe you can contact the FBI online and report it. If the guy is a repeat offender you could have a case against him but whether you get compensated afterwards is another issue.

Who gave approval for exporting from USA/importing to Australia? Who's opinion of condition will stand up in a court of law? etc. etc.

We have to be careful, too much problems and we could see a ban on imported 2nd hand vehicles or further ludicrous restrictions where we can't import project cars, etc.

s

[Mustangpaul]

If it walks like a duck & quacks like a duck.......

We all know what a quality example of each model is worth. If we buy a car at well under it's market value, then we roll the dice and take our chances. Sadly most of the duds that arrive in Australia are purchased at dud prices. Our greed is nearly as bad as the con artists. There is a few cases of people being genuinely shafted. Rock65 is one example. But many have walked right into it, myself included.

Yes and when I was young I trained boxing. Got the ears boxed off me at times but never compained. I knew the risk but stepped into the ring.

I trusted someone here. He took my money. I will be happy when the American Police finish their investigations and I find out more about that forged signature on the Bill of Sale.

[Ausjacko]

Hi MP
Looks like your car rebuilder was actually a carpenter and not a sheet metal person - note the use of expanding foam, MDF and radiata pine inserts in the frame.  Makes a change from teh bog and newspaper and ocassional firearm.

[soc123_au]

MP, I don't know enough about your exact situation to comment on what catagory you fall into. Although forged documents are a worry. I still stand by my comments re price vs model. If it's cheap there is a reason. At least your car is on the road to recovery & it appears you have the resources & people on board to make it happen. Take a breath, have a cup of tea & a biscuit & relax. What is done is done. Look forward to what you will end up with.

[Mustangpaul]

MP, I don't know enough about your exact situation to comment on what catagory you fall into. Although forged documents are a worry. I still stand by my comments re price vs model. If it's cheap there is a reason. At least your car is on the road to recovery & it appears you have the resources & people on board to make it happen. Take a breath, have a cup of tea & a biscuit & relax. What is done is done. Look forward to what you will end up with.

Yata Yata Yata,

At the end of the day that seems to be all we can do, til the fat lady sings.

Thanks and I look forward to displaying my finished project.

[JimNiki]

I'd love to give back that 2x4 to the guy who sold you the car ...right on the back of his head!

[Sprint72]

I'd love to give back that 2x4 to the guy who sold you the car ...right on the back of his head!

He'd probably just pack the dent in his ugly boof head with chicken wire and Bondo and be out conning his next victim within a day or two...

[Mustangpaul]

I could probably sell it to the Americans If I wsn't going to convert to right hand drive, took another couple of photos of restoration this morning

[Mustangpaul]

I'd love to give back that 2x4 to the guy who sold you the car ...right on the back of his head!

He'd probably just pack the dent in his ugly boof head with chicken wire and Bondo and be out conning his next victim within a day or two...

No Brain No Pain

[mark.wright]

What we all need to remember is that what is acceptable in the states is not acceptable over here or most other countries come to that. I lost count of the cars I inquired about that had huge holes in the floors or had frame rails that looked like swiss cheese but were evidently in every day use. It is just deemed acceptable to drive cars in that condition, so not all 'pieces of junk' are from rip off merchants.
I paid for a few inspections on various cars before I settled on mine, and whilst some said I was lucky to get exactly what was described I'd like to think it was because I dotted the i's and crossed the t's. Having said that the former may be more accurate. I would like to import another one (this time a fastback) but with hindsight you would be better investing your money in a return flight (that's about what I paid in various inspections) and tying it in with a holiday. You could then go shopping for all your parts while your there and save a fortune with that too.
Doing a good job of convincing myself to book a flight now! LOL

[Mustangpaul]

What we all need to remember is that what is acceptable in the states is not acceptable over here or most other countries come to that. I lost count of the cars I inquired about that had huge holes in the floors or had frame rails that looked like swiss cheese but were evidently in every day use. It is just deemed acceptable to drive cars in that condition, so not all 'pieces of junk' are from rip off merchants.
I paid for a few inspections on various cars before I settled on mine, and whilst some said I was lucky to get exactly what was described I'd like to think it was because I dotted the i's and crossed the t's. Having said that the former may be more accurate. I would like to import another one (this time a fastback) but with hindsight you would be better investing your money in a return flight (that's about what I paid in various inspections) and tying it in with a holiday. You could then go shopping for all your parts while your there and save a fortune with that too.
Doing a good job of convincing myself to book a flight now! LOL

My brother who is a spray painter is about to move there. After he does I can stay there, to holiday and ask him if he's not too busy to inspect with me. Just a shame I went solo and trusted this conman. He was so good, phoning me after hours say my mechanics phoned to say they couldn't be there to do the inspection, next day mechanics phoned to say the owner had phoned them to delay the inspection.

[mark.wright]

They were pretty much the exact excuses I had on one inspection. from experience, its time to walk away when they keep cancelling.

On the flip side I had a 67 vert inspected in NY and the guy must have had a bad day because he condemned the car to hell, only for me to see it advertised again by who ever bought it, it turned out to better than the original seller described it and I've been gutted ever since!

[Mustangpaul]

They were pretty much the exact excuses I had on one inspection. from experience, its time to walk away when they keep cancelling.

On the flip side I had a 67 vert inspected in NY and the guy must have had a bad day because he condemned the car to hell, only for me to see it advertised again by who ever bought it, it turned out to better than the original seller described it and I've been gutted ever since!

bluck and bler to them, I say, bluck and bler