Restomod front suspension from CCP

[Glen68]

Just to ask if anyone has had anything to do with Classic Performance Products? Mainly the front end kit for early mustangs.??

From all the research I have done, they seem to be the go without going over the top!! Price is good to.

http://www.classicperform.com/NewProducts/2006/NewFiles/NovaSubFrame.htm#mustang

Cheers Glen

[boofhead]

If we had rules that were more open such as the US has then I would have tried out few approaches but I have not. Staying with the standard gear with spring / shocks and a Shelby drop is about the best we can do wit minimal hassles.

The issue all of the after market kits have in AU (certainly QLD) is that you will require an engineers certificate for the gear and modifications (if any) to the cars structure.  You need to find one that will sigh off on it. So step one is find the engineer then review the various kits based on what can or cannot be approved. Naturally you need to add in these extra costs to the project.

I have gone down the engineers route once before and would rather not go there again. Well at least not on a project with larger implied changes. I had three certificates to cover the car last time.

Good luck and keep us informed.
 

[Glen68]

Well one thing I do know that Auslayne (Layne of Proj-x) has been down that track and is now the only dealer /importer of Heidt's gear and equipment into this country that has Australian compliance. So my Heidt's 4 link rear end is now QLD Dep trans approved. :)

I just did not want to go the route of full front end removal so I was just looking around for some valid options that were just an improvement over the standard setup.

TCP, RRS, Global West and others are a complete suspension upgrade/redesign replacing all components and costing thousands$$$$$$.  None of which has Australian compliance as well.

The CCP upgrade just removes the lower strut bar ($##%) replaces it with an arm and turns it into a lower a -arm. Therefore correcting all the front end flaws and retaining most of the original front suspension. Cost is around $400 up to $700 depending on how far you want to go??

I will continue to follow up the CCP product as it looks and sounds still very good.

Still waiting on Stub tech to get back to me on the 2" dropped stubs as well. So I will keep you guys informed.

Cheers Glen

[derwin66]

Glenn I got my Heitdts rear end blue plated without a worry in the world.  HOw is the motor coming along?

[Glen68]

From what I understand, and don't take my word on this...The Blue plate is for the installation of the product.. But if the product is not Australian complianced, then it is still not legal on the roads.

Why don't you give Layne a call? He knows all the facts!!!

Yeah Darryl, The motor is coming along well, as is everything else!!!! SLOWLY though!!! :) MONEY..... And this rain is not helping :(

I will be at the all Ford day (no car) but just making a nuisance of myself

[boofhead]

Has either of you really noticed any significant difference with the behaviour of the car with the rear 4 link installed?

You have me very interested.

[derwin66]

I have noticed the difference straight away, I feel like the power is going straight to the road and I am hitting corners better.  But at the same time I put the chassis stiffner and brace in as well.

[Glen68]

Can't say for myself Boof, but Derwin66 knows, the little blown 302 of his certainly puts the power down well.

I just started out to fix a few little problems that I had with mine and now it has turned into a massive mechanical marathon with brakes, suspension, chassis strengthening, steering, heads, exhaust, electrical, fuel system, wheels, tyres, dash, clutch, cooling system, door glass etc....

You see Derwin66 (Darryl) why I am still off the road?? hahahahaha

[derwin66]

I didn't think ADR rules applied to pre 69-70 vehicles anyhow.  I always thought the blue plate was basically a plate saying the changes were engineering wise sound  for the street to a standard that made the vehicle roadworthy?  

[Glen68]

Well the CCP stuff for my model anyway (68) is junk. They have a lower ball joint alignment problem that they won't fix. There customer service is rubbish and you can get only minimal caster out of the setup once installed. The price was cheap and you get what you paid for.

So back into front end stuff! Upper and lower control arms, strut bars, stub axles, spring perches and other goodies :)

[roro]

Think u will find the Rrs gear has full australain compliance....

[boofhead]

derwin66   - Thank you and very interesting. I would like to see your set up one day. I assume you have engineer certificate(s) to cover all of your modifications?

I am not an expert and I have had many an argument with boffins at the RTA over the ADR rules over the years. I am less inclined to push the limits these days as the added stress is just not needed in my life. There is a lot of very nice gear around though most of it is not so easy to legally apply and use it.

[derwin66]

Sure do boofhead, it will be at the all ford day at Kedron tomorrow providing it doesn't rain all day if you want to have a look.

[shaunp]

Blue plates means your sweet, to drive and reg it. Plenty of Engineers to comply them. Thing is with aftermarket suspension is, much of it i just for show. Ei if you take out factory double wish bone and fit strut suspension you are just plain crazy. Strut suspension has  constant camber, where as double wishbone has an altered camber curve as it needs it when you load it up, that's why V8 supa cars, Formula 1 etc etc use double wishbone. Even the after market double wish bone stuff is really a waste, in most cases, gives you some extra adjustment and some extra Shelby drop that's it really it and most alignment blokes can't adjust the stock stuff so why bother, AS for strut frontends, VB commodores were crap when new so why put a copy of it in the front of a Mustang, cause that's what it's based one along with a Camira rack. As for the rear,  look out for rear ends that use a Watts link, most are wrong, look at an old XE falcon and look at how Ford did a Watts link, thats the correct way, not  many /most of the retro fit rears dont do it right. The issues they cause are called "features" so they can sell it. Mostly the diff wanderds all over the track as the suspension travels up and down. If you want to put power down buy some cal tracs or fit a Jag rear end. Ford and Holden still can't build a rear as good as Jag which was built in the early 60's for an E type. $500 best rear you can buy

[boofhead]

Shaun you bring up a lot of good points and I agree mostly with them all. As far as a Jag rear end fitted to a Mustang - I like the idea. So had a hunt a found this

http://home.bresnan.net/~dazed/JaguarIRS1

Not sure if the process is what you have had experience with. Interested in your view. Any way, as the article states 'Sometimes you just cannot leave it alone'.

 

[shaunp]

I'll have a look later at the link, a 420 compact or 3.8 S would be a good width for a mustang (hard to get those now as they are all in hotrods)but you can narrow an XJ rear. The V12 XJS diffs are often a DANA LSD  as well. you get good brakes, good suspension and Murray at Jag & Rover spares Kelvin Grove will probably sell you one for a few $100. I'm really temped to put one in my car. Marshell has one in his Red 66 vert with the XR6 dash etc, he didn't shorten his, just got custom off set wheels.

[Glen68]

Shaun,

How do you go with running a large twin exhaust system through a jag rear end?

Is there any issues with the mustang fuel tank being where it is?

Cheers Glen

P.S. Nearly sorted out my front suspension......

[shaunp]

Hmm Jags run the pipes through the cage near the brakes as this stuff is botled to the floor none of it moves unlike a live axle,. E type jags run the pipes below the cage. Tank won't be an issue. See if you can find some picts of Marshals 66 vert build he made a nice job of bolting one in and he was puting one in his son's car as well. He lives at Buderim now I think, he be happy to show I'm sure. Mike Roddy down south also has caliper spacers so you can fit vented rear disc, in place of the solids. But even the solids will pull up a heavy car from 250k
This is the car at the 07 Concours
http://qld.mustang.org.au/photos/2007/qldnat090907/pages/34.htm

[Glen68]

Okay guys,
Just an update on my front suspension and steering upgrades.
Over the last couple of months I have spent countless hours on the phone and hundreds of emails to many suspension places.
Just to name a few http://www.rrs-online.com.au/ , http://www.globalwest.net/ , http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com/products.html , http://www.moneymakerracing.net/ , http://www.rosehillperformanceparts.com/ , http://www.opentrackerracingproducts.com/ , http://www.maecomotorsport.com
My criteria was Design, quality and construction of products, Cost of the product, Cost of shipping and Customer service.
Not only do some of the companies sell over priced, poorly made and designed products, have over the top shipping charges and no customer service.
Ash Milne of Opentracker OZ sales@opentracker.com.au is great. But by far the best in all areas is Shaun at Street or Track http://www.streetortrack.com/ in my opinion END OF STORY!!!!

[shaunp]

That stuff looks ok, pretty much anything that is a copy of stock should work better than a strut front end, which is why the open tracker stuff is ok it's just stock stuff reinforced. You get no camber gain from struts. My only concern is the rollerised stuff will brinell and the bearings will fail, but it will take some time, this happens with Jag rear ends in time as well, but the jag stuff is easy to change, not sure about the opentracker ones as I think the weld them in which is an issue as well.The street and track stuff looks ok as well. My only concern is they say their stubs fit all model, this is cr#p, this is the same as putting xy-xf brakes on a 64-66 car it makes bucket loads of bump steer, I asume they fix it with their bump steer kit, which you realy can't use here, as far as I'm aware. I don't mind that watts link set up, may look at that some more. At the end of the day a stock front end is a double wish bone which is what you want, this stuff is stronger, and depending on the top ball joint you can drop the top arm more, I guess. Personally I'd weld gusets to the stock stuff, fit some wedges to the top joits, and fit those drop axles, use quality stock bushes or make some from Luberon. I have luberon in my MGA been there for 20 years, still fine but they shake every thing loose!:banghead:

[Glen68]

Hey Guys,

Well I spoke to Shaun (at Street or Track) today as some of my order arrived. I asked about the late model stub axles and he knows about the differences and the bump steer issues which they can correct but he is servicing track cars and the early model stubs don't handle the track abuse.
 Now if only someone made some stubs with a 2" drop and correct geometry how good would that be??? Let’s hope!!!
I went the roller perches and the upper and lower arms. The Opentracker gear is good but very overpriced " I guess its labour intensive to do. These UCA’s and LCA’s are awesome. Detail, construction, welding, finish, design are excellent. I am very very happy. For the amount of driving my car will get it will last me 10 life times :).

By the way his service is excellent and he has gone to great lengths to save me money on shipping. Above and beyond what I have come to expect from any other business. Very Happy to recommend.
Cheers  Glen

[shaunp]

Strongest stock stubs you will get here are XF, you could use these till you find some drops,  1/2 as strong again from a stock mustang. Just change the springs when you find some drop axles.

[Glen68]

Thanks Shaun,

 I am not after any stronger stubs. I won't be seeing track work every weekend. Maybe the odd hill clinb and laps around Lakeside and Queensland raceway and a few trips down the quarter mile at willow bank show suffice.

I just might have to do that. These dropped spindles are taking there time to arrive.

[shaunp]

In real terms its a set of springs and a wheel alignment, outer tie rods may  be a larger taper as well, XFs are pretty heavily made.

[Glen68]

Well have pretty much sorted all the front end out now and steering,  just waiting for a few parts to arrive (kind of like Christmas :) )

I will post a picture of all the stuff and list it once it all arrives.

Now onto the next issue Brakes???? Hahahahaha lots have been said on this topic!!! I think it comes to personal preferences I think and what you want and need :)

Glen