Author Topic: the best 302 performance options (Read 14788 times)

Frank70 · « **Reply #25 on:** September 24, 2010, 12:50:47 pm »

Thats a good price for that kit I reckon.

Definitely not worth importing from the US.

Very interested to see the results.

Cheers,
Frank.

donoauto · « **Reply #26 on:** September 25, 2010, 02:18:19 pm »

:banghead::banghead: Just learnt what "rail" rockers are cause I've got em & they're not suited to 60229 edelbrock heads. The rails on the sides of the rockers hit the top assembly of the valves before the actual bit that's supposed to rock them ( yeah , tech talk or what :rol: ). So , a quick $400 odd bucks spent this morning at Rocket for a set of Scorpion roller rockers that will f#^%ing fit. Get them Tuesday & see then what else will stop us. :banghead:

shaunp · « **Reply #27 on:** September 25, 2010, 03:44:37 pm »

Post mid 66 windsors have them., Your rollers may not fit under your rocker covers.

donoauto · « **Reply #28 on:** September 25, 2010, 04:12:05 pm »

Quote from: shaunp link=topic=10980.msg130245#msg130245

Post mid 66 windsors have them., Your rollers may not fit under your rocker covers.

well then that'll be the next thing stopping us......

donoauto · « **Reply #29 on:** September 28, 2010, 06:07:42 pm »

Scorpion 1.6 to 1 ratio roller rockers showed up today. Just trial fitted a couple to check rocker cover clearance. Was fouling on oil splash guard fitted to underside of rocker cover. Just unscrewed it & fits a treat! Can't see a problem with not using them.

shaunp · « **Reply #30 on:** September 28, 2010, 07:24:29 pm »

If you can don't have a splash gaurd under the PCV they can suck some oil and burn it. See if you can mod it to give some protection. Also you can buy alloy rocker cover spacers to lift them.

benzo · « **Reply #31 on:** October 01, 2010, 09:01:14 pm »

Hey Boofhead or anyone else in the know:

Would I HAVE to change the valve springs/timing chain on my stock engine if I was to put the Comp Cam 268h in?

shaunp · « **Reply #32 on:** October 02, 2010, 08:06:29 am »

Springs for sure, timing gear just beacause you have it off the car buy an Austalian Rollermaster, with the adjustable crank gear. are you doing to the rest of the engine. If you are not changeing the heads I'd use a Comp cam, Dual energy, for some extra exhaust duration.

boofhead · « **Reply #33 on:** October 02, 2010, 09:30:06 am »

Stock springs are very generally to soft for a performance cam. You should always purchase the correct springs for the cam. Naturally this applies to the lifters as well. If your installing the springs yourself you should measure the install hight and use shims if necessary so the closed value load will be correct. Its necessary to stop (or at least reduce) value bounce at the higher RPM levels.

If you have a factory timing chain change it out (as it is likely to be cracked and broken anyway). I would suggest even if you have a standard engine change the stock one out - the nylon coating does not last 40+ years. Note: This comment applies to the early engines that used this style of timing chain.

I always choose a double roller and get a model with multiple crank slots to allow the CAM to be advance or retarded as is appropriate during the installation. Do not just throw it in - set the cam install position as per the CAM instructions.

It might sound hard but it is not hard at all.

shaunp · « **Reply #34 on:** October 02, 2010, 05:50:21 pm »

You can do the springs and new guide seals with the heads on as well, no drama, as long as you have an air compressor. Other wise you need a ball of string, not my preferred method really you need to just ensure that at the higer lift of the new cam, the springs don't lock up, valve float is a function of lift of the cam, spring tension and the followers you are using. Ie standard springs will float at a higher rpm if you fit a higher lift cam. You need just strong enough springs for the RPM you want to run to, so in the case of a stock engine like yours a bit over 5k at best, any stiffer is wastin hp.

boofhead · « **Reply #35 on:** October 02, 2010, 06:31:01 pm »

Shaunp is talking about making up a fitting that goes into the spark plug hole that you hook up to the air compressor. The idea is that the air pressure keeps to value closed while you change the spring. It does make it easier.

The other technique he has mentioned is the string (or rope) method. This works by lowering the piston a little - feed the thin rope (nylon is better) into cylinder to fill the space. Obviously you need to make sure the rope is continuous and it is not complete pushed into the cylinder. Then move the piston up so the rope keeps the value up by occupying the chamber space.

Shaun did bring up a very good point. It is a very good opportunity to replace the valve guide seals. The old ones can get rather hard over time and hence not control the oil back flow down the (possibly/likely) warn guide. This is cheap and very easy to do at the same time.

Be careful to try not the knock around the CAM bearings when putting the CAM in - just go slow and it will be fine. Do make sure you use generous amounts of CAM lube on the CAM lobs. This is important as is the CAM brake-in period.

Blown66Mustang · « **Reply #36 on:** October 02, 2010, 06:53:11 pm »

Grimbo,
you forgot number (6) as this should assist with a few extra HP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAMNEdLdeUQ

boofhead · « **Reply #37 on:** October 03, 2010, 09:48:49 am »

The suggestion of the Dual Energy Cam is worth considering. Here is the details of one of the grinds.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-35-409-3/

or the slightly milder

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-35-416-3/

The longer duration and lift on the exhaust side does provide a benefit as the exhaust port of the standard Windsor heads is rather poor.

If it is getting to much then read this as it will provide an overview of the Comp CAM family of grinds.

http://www.cpgnation.com/forum/simple-guide-comp-cams-camshaft-families-1424.html

----

As far as option (6) above - yes go for it

shaunp · « **Reply #38 on:** October 03, 2010, 01:24:07 pm »

On the topic of CAM lube, I always, paint flat tappet cams with Molybond 122L prior to putting on the cam lube, buy it in a spray can, one tin lasts a life time. This was the only thing that kept Holden Blue 308/304 cams alive, when they changed to oiling splash from the crank in the 80's, we used to put tube of Molybond 2.5 in the oil as well for the bed in. There was no roller cams then, just flat tappet, I used to buy my cams from Ivan Tighe, in Montague Rd West end. I used to love his 402 grind for redmotors, 7000 rpm solid grind in a 186/202, it was a sorcher
http://www.molybond.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=46&Itemid=104

66pony · « **Reply #39 on:** October 08, 2010, 03:38:46 pm »

Quote from: shaunp link=topic=10980.msg130098#msg130098

Quote from: jbrucem1 link=topic=10980.msg130074#msg130074
comp cams 268h??

I used to recomend Comp Cams Extreme energy, but I've few fail now. What they are is a cam with wide .050" duration, but tight overall duration in comparsion, so in real terms you are buying a quieter cam than you think, so the engine makes good torque. To achieve this .050" / overall duration mix, they have very steep flanks off the quieting ramp. This means they carry alot of load as a flat tappet, and wear easily if mis treated. Got 262H on the bench now from a snappy low mile 289, 2 lobes missing, bottom of a lifter
gone, cr#p chucked into one front bore, now scored, not sure if I can clean it up with a hone, and it's at .040" so it's a new block or a sleeve perhaps, or I'm stuck with the this engine. Look at the Dual energy Comp cams I reckon.

Shaun is a roller cam a better option if so how do they fit in the older blocks?? Is a spider all that is required or are there other issues that need to be considered??

With the AU$ so high at the moment I am thinking of getting some more parts together for a full rebuild of my '66 289W.

Steve

shaunp · « **Reply #40 on:** October 08, 2010, 03:51:32 pm »

For sure but more expensive. No issue fitting them to an early block. Just some holes to drill and tap to botl the spider to. A roller takes a lot of heat out of a windsor, plus the the profiles for a roller a better due to not neeeding quietening ramps like a flat tappet does. A roller cam is steel billet not cast iron like a falt tappet.

benzo · « **Reply #41 on:** October 16, 2010, 11:10:46 pm »

I've got my car booked in for Thursday to have all of the goodies I've got installed. Ended up going with the Comp Cam 268h kit that came with lifters, timing set, springs, seals, retainers etc.... from Summit Racing.

Only problem now is that I've noticed that although the Summit website said the kit suited all 302 engines (excluding the HO versions), the Comp Cams website states that there are two different timing sets: one for pre 1972 engines ("one piece fuel pump eccentric") and one for post 1972 engines ("two piece fuel pump eccentric"). I don't have a clue what this means, but the version they included in my kit was the post-1972. I'm not sure what year my block is (will have to find the serial tomorow), but is this going to be a pain in the arse if my block is pre-1972?

Does anyone have any idea what sort of torque and horsepower I should be expecting from:

302 that runs rather nicely already (stock heads)
Aforementioned Comp Cam 268h kit
600cfm Holley vac secondary
Weiand Street Warrior intake
Electronic ignition
2.5" Magnaflow system with tri-y headers

Any advice is most appreciated!

donoauto · « **Reply #42 on:** October 17, 2010, 06:25:21 am »

Finished installing the ED2091 edelbrock package & got it on the dyno yesterday to calibrate the carby air fuel ratios. Need a couple of more metering rods to get it right under light cruise. Power stage & WOT is great at around 12.6/1 - 13/1. Thing goes like a stabbed rat now. Very impressive. Will inform of Dyno figures when finished but don't hold your breaths for any staggering figures. For edelbrocks stated 367HP - I'll make a guess at 300 rwhp if I'm lucky. But geez it goes hard!

66ROX · « **Reply #43 on:** October 17, 2010, 11:15:22 am »

Quote from: benzo link=topic=10980.msg131974#msg131974

I've got my car booked in for Thursday to have all of the goodies I've got installed. Ended up going with the Comp Cam 268h kit that came with lifters, timing set, springs, seals, retainers etc.... from Summit Racing.

Only problem now is that I've noticed that although the Summit website said the kit suited all 302 engines (excluding the HO versions), the Comp Cams website states that there are two different timing sets: one for pre 1972 engines ("one piece fuel pump eccentric") and one for post 1972 engines ("two piece fuel pump eccentric"). I don't have a clue what this means, but the version they included in my kit was the post-1972. I'm not sure what year my block is (will have to find the serial tomorow), but is this going to be a pain in the arse if my block is pre-1972?

Does anyone have any idea what sort of torque and horsepower I should be expecting from:

302 that runs rather nicely already (stock heads)
Aforementioned Comp Cam 268h kit
600cfm Holley vac secondary
Weiand Street Warrior intake
Electronic ignition
2.5" Magnaflow system with tri-y headers

Any advice is most appreciated!

I will do a simulated dyno run for you on Dyno 2000 when I get a chance late tonight.

The stock heads will be your limiting factor.

66ROX · « **Reply #44 on:** October 18, 2010, 11:39:24 pm »

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/9783/268hgraph.jpg

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/149/268htable.jpg

Ignore the xe256 cam heading, its got the 268h specs inputted and stock head flow figures.

benzo · « **Reply #45 on:** October 18, 2010, 11:45:06 pm »

Legend, thanks a tonne! Only problem is that my car just blew its high pressure steering hose (2 months after having a new one fitted) and I don't know if I'm going to be able to get her to the engine shop......oh the joys of my only car being a 40 year old Stang!

the best 302 performance options

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Author Topic: the best 302 performance options (Read 14788 times)