Yes you right

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Author Topic: Yes you right  (Read 46653 times)

Offline soc123_au

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« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2010, 05:15:21 pm »
Honestly, I think this issue is causing far too much conflict. From what I have observed the majority of users on here that have businesses whos services are of interest to Car enthusiasts are on here because they are passionate about Mustangs. Any trading that is done is secondary. I am the first to admit I am happy to take any work that comes my way through the forum BUT if I was on here purely to promote my business & this was my primary focus I would have gone bust about a week after I joined. Most of the "work" I get is free advise which I am all too happy to give. Thats the idea of a forum, the exchange of knowledge & ideas. I would like to have my details in my sig along with a photobucket link, one reason obviously is if someone is looking for someone in my area they have a point of contact. The other is when answering a question it adds some credibility to my answer. I personaly never bothered with the commercial sellers threads as I didnt feel comfortable with it. I also was on here for about 6 months without any contact info in my sig for the same reason. The only reason I added it was many forum members asked me to. Allow it, Ban it, whatever, I am getting to the point I couldnt care less either way. There is plenty of "hidden" advertising on here anyway
which I must say I find very amusing.

Either way I am glad I found this forum as it has been & I hope will continue to be a great resource. Also I enjoy the banter & have made some good mates out of it, even if I havent met some of them face to face.

Offline mussy65

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« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2010, 06:15:39 pm »
I would not be saying the Administrators are not watching and taking notes!

We do hear you folk out in Forum land but we also have to give the state clubs an opportunity to express their views and thoughts.

Top of my list of "to do" is to ask the forum members their thoughts and to gauge reactions as I for one have always found there is always an abundance of opinion worthy of serious consideration.

Unfortunately, it is true that not all state executive committee members are taking full note of activities on the forum so it is up to members to ensure their views are made known to the respective state executive committee members.

Nobody on here is totally right nor totally wrong but between all of the views, we should be able to produce something that is totally acceptable.

Offline Rock65

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« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2010, 07:42:41 pm »
What % of  the MOCA forum users are MOCA members?

Offline mikes68

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« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2010, 07:50:07 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by peterp
Definately not floating and no popups.

peterp


:a :p :a :p :a
Cheers,
Mike

Offline Rock65

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« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2010, 09:45:47 pm »
Just asking the question Lee. If all 2008 forums users were MOCA members ,would this subject even get a mention?

Offline nassi

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« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2010, 10:13:33 pm »
Thanks Grumpy, you managed to say what I feel.
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Offline mussy65

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« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2010, 10:18:59 pm »
Membership of MOCA is not a prerequisite for a gurnsey on the Forum.

We do not ask the question on membership so we cannot tell who are members of MOCA and have no idea on the percentages on members vs non members ...

Offline BLKPNY

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« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2010, 10:33:06 pm »
I know that my 4x4 forum refuse to get into advertising, simply because it makes the site commercial, and everyone knows it's a cash grab. They allow advertising in sig lines, they allow "Involved" businesses to advertise in the classifieds, and they have no problems. Owning a Forum doesn't cost very much at all, it's really a non event.
The Jeep forum I'm on, does run advertising, from anyone and everyone. Who would jump on a Jeep forum, and want to know what Vodaphone or Commonwealth bank deals there are going? But the advertising they do have, for Jeep related shops, is useful. I know that forum provides it's owner with a very nice wage.

I'm not fussed anymore, as Steve said, it's almost causing too much conflict, to bother proceeding with.

But if Lance and Kerry are worried about me telling people that what they are after, is in fact available here, and that I have it, and that that is against the rules, then that would mean that a ban on all referals would need to be in place, which helps no-one, especially the newer owners.

No-one has complained about having to pay to advertise...... in fact, all I see are posts enquiring about the opportunities, with out answers.

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Offline tim_morrison82

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« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2010, 10:41:29 pm »
maybe a good idea would be for an administrator to send an email out to all registered email addresses and poll them on if they are or aren't a member. just to get an idea of who's out there.

Offline BLKPNY

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« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2010, 10:46:18 pm »
I'm a Member... Look!














<<<<<
<<<<<
<<<<<
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Offline mikes68

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« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2010, 10:55:19 pm »
Why not create an additional optional field for their branch membership in the user profile?
Cheers,
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Offline Macka

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« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2010, 11:01:17 pm »
Thats a brilliant idea.  Those that are proud to be financial, already do it.  

As for having "paid for" advertising on the site, I'm not so keen but then again I don't make a living from it.

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« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2010, 11:21:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by tim_morrison82
maybe a good idea would be for an administrator to send an email out to all registered email addresses and poll them on if they are or aren't a member. just to get an idea of who's out there.  



All 1,977 (at last count), of them? ;+ ;)  ;]

Sorry, not practical

Kind Regards
CPU




Quote
Originally posted by mikes68
Why not create an additional optional field for their branch membership in the user profile?




The software has no settings for extra fields.  A hack would have to be done and we avoid doing hacks.  Reason, every time a software up grade is done the hacks have to be manually transferred to the new upgrade.  This always causes problems, so we avoid hacks.

Kind Regards
CPU



Offline FatBoy66

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« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2010, 11:26:05 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by soc123_au
Honestly, I think this issue is causing far too much conflict. From what I have observed the majority of users on here that have businesses whos services are of interest to Car enthusiasts are on here because they are passionate about Mustangs. Any trading that is done is secondary. I am the first to admit I am happy to take any work that comes my way through the forum BUT if I was on here purely to promote my business & this was my primary focus I would have gone bust about a week after I joined. Most of the "work" I get is free advise which I am all too happy to give. Thats the idea of a forum, the exchange of knowledge & ideas. I would like to have my details in my sig along with a photobucket link, one reason obviously is if someone is looking for someone in my area they have a point of contact. The other is when answering a question it adds some credibility to my answer. I personaly never bothered with the commercial sellers threads as I didnt feel comfortable with it. I also was on here for about 6 months without any contact info in my sig for the same reason. The only reason I added it was many forum members asked me to. Allow it, Ban it, whatever, I am getting to the point I couldnt care less either way. There is plenty of "hidden" advertising on here anyway
which I must say I find very amusing.

Either way I am glad I found this forum as it has been & I hope will continue to be a great resource. Also I enjoy the banter & have made some good mates out of it, even if I havent met some of them face to face.


If it wasnt for the businesses that regulary add content to this forum it wouldnt really be much of a forum.

Having banners and stuff like that just moves away from what this place really is. I thought that if a business wishes to advertise they can do so by having a "Small" logo or contact info in there signature, if they chose not to add any content to the forum they didnt really advertise, the more they contributed to the forum (which 90% of them do) it helps others that frequent this site for answers and looking for that same "maybe" business or info they wish to share

Its a win win for all. Have the busineses (or others) that want some sort of business name (or pic) in there signature pay an annual fee to use it. No difference from what the forum was like 8 months ago and no one would have to deal with banners etc. As soc123 says, it adds validity to a post having that signature of a business backing the answer and all of the businesses on here are allways happy to offer advice. For a newbie asking a question without the signatures in place they really arent to sure there getting correct information from the user/business giving the info (its just another username ranting on a forum)

want a signature for your business? pay the annual fee

limiting the amount of banners for all the businesses that wish to contribute may be seen from a different angle from its users and like someone else said...without the users, there is no forum. If the forum becomes political or policed by people that dont even have the time to visit it (regardless they donate there time in other areas) whats the point of having a forum that discusses MUSTANGS that you have to read between all the lines to get the info your coming there for in the first place

Next thing you know, theres a NEW forum thats popped up without all the BS and half the users start going there instead. Theres allready a few new good ones out there that are growing daily and I recognise a few user names from this site that post in the other more often

want a signature for your business? pay the annual fee. Its that simple. Site stays unmolested with no banners and the user can determine where they wish to get their advice from

thats my 2 bobs worth, do with it as you wish

Offline non member

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« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2010, 11:34:40 pm »
Steff,

I am not "worried" about you telling people that you have this or that. It is the advertising that is the issue. You will notice that I have told people to contact you & others that are listed on the forum.

Unlike some others here, I can see both sides of the issue & have always worked towards what I would see as a compromise. The rule at the moment is, A. Commercial Advertising is strictly not allowed. That is easy to understand.

As has already been posted by the administrators, the answers will be known after the June meeting of the national delegates, so now would be a good time for lobbying them.  

My idea has always been to change the rule to allow paid advertising that is not intrusive, IE; a banner at the top & bottom of the page. I believe that would be the best of both worlds for all concerned. What I would not like to see is advertising in the signature or avatar as it becomes more repetitious than any banner ever will. However that is only my opinion & not that of the club or administrators.

Like everything that is decided by committee, esp one that is national in it's makeup, it takes time. Once again, these people are volunteers that also have lives outside of the Mustang world.

If you all want to burn me at the stake, go ahead. I feel I am only doing this for the good of the forum & am happy to leave if you all feel I was vindictive or destructive in my approach. I can always go back to playing with my cars.



Offline mach70

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« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2010, 11:36:11 pm »
My 2c,

I do not see a problem with someone saying "I have that in stock". Hidden Advertising? Maybe but at least it isnt an annoying pop up or floating PITA!

Keep advertising either Mustang specific or at least from a Financial Member ie an Accountant.

I would rather buy from someone that either supports MOCA or the forum (preferably both), where possible.

This is my solution an advertiser pays a yearly fee like most do for the state club mags then they get a small....yes SMALL section within their signature (Side Note Please PLEASE stop the big pics from being in the signature it is so much a PITA) and start or resurect the "Commercial Advertising section" and thats it for advertising.

or

Have a SPONSORS Section/page where you "buy" a space of predeterimined size for a yearly fee.

Opps sorry I think that was 3c worth....:+

Offline mikes68

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« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2010, 11:59:31 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by CPU

Quote
Originally posted by mikes68
Why not create an additional optional field for their branch membership in the user profile?




The software has no settings for extra fields.  A hack would have to be done and we avoid doing hacks.  Reason, every time a software up grade is done the hacks have to be manually transferred to the new upgrade.  This always causes problems, so we avoid hacks.

Kind Regards
CPU


 


I fully understand and appreciate the hesitation in creating hacks however how frequently are updates sent and applied?

I wouldn't have thought it particularly difficult to include an additional step to either execute a script or copy and paste a couple of lines of code for deployment in a simple application?

With that said, I guess we (I) need to ask what real benefit would be gained...

Thanks for your response...:(

Cheers,
Mike

CPU

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« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2010, 12:00:22 am »
Quote
Originally posted by mach70

.......(Side Note Please PLEASE stop the big pics from being in the signature it is so much a PITA)

 


We will be attending to this when the new upgrade is implemented. Signatures will be re sized to more of an appropriate size.

We will be offering a service that does this for the signatures for those that would like to have it.

As an example


[marquee] [/marquee]


Offline Foresight

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« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2010, 12:04:33 am »
Are they really going to scroll like that?! Thats even worse :w

Offline BLKPNY

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« Reply #44 on: May 19, 2010, 12:05:37 am »
I never said I didn't want to pay, or that I shouldn't. I have asked many times "How much" and never been answered, both recently, and at the start. The reply was always contact your club, which was for the Magazine.

I feel, that if I paid for a line in my Sig, then if I were contributing to the forum, that would get out, if I were just paying, but not contributing, then no-one would see it.
If I contribute, I get seen, if not, I don't. Simple.
Anyone can pay for an ad, and not contribute, but that isn't what the forum is about, IMHO.

If users abuse the (paid) privelidge, then give them a rap over the knuckles, but I don't think I, or any other regulars, were Spamming.

If this were truly not a cash grab excersise, I'm sure this is the best solution.
Why should someone who never even logs on, get the same advertising exposure as someone who sits on here every day?
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Offline BLKPNY

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« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2010, 12:13:53 am »
I've said it once, AFAIK....


Peace out.
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CPU

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« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2010, 12:18:01 am »
Quote
Originally posted by mikes68

......however how frequently are updates sent and applied?


Thanks for your response...:(

 



My pleasure

It's the security updates.  Our biggest problem is staying just that one step in front of the hackers and security updates are quite frequent.  There are times when a hack is done but we try to avoid them where we can.  About the only analogy I can give you is that putting a hack in is like adding a modification to your car.  Move a bracket here from there and it affects something else down there.  Next thing you know your chasing your tail.

Rest assure we down here in the engine room of the forum are listening and taking notes and will do what we can from our end to ensure that forum runs as smooth as possible. Including changing the server, because if this one goes down one more time I'm personally going to put a bomb under it :_  :+

Kind Regards
CPU




Quote
Originally posted by Foresight
Are they really going to scroll like that?! Thats even worse :w
:_ :_ :_  LOL!! ;{


Offline ponyride

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« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2010, 12:33:39 pm »
All I can say is mussy65's (abbreviated) post is the most sensible thing I've read.  I respect everyone's opinion that has been aired but give it time and I'm sure it'll all work out. Change is never easy when there are lot of people with differing views and ideas. Keep the faith!

Quote
Originally posted by mussy65
We do hear you folk out in Forum land but we also have to give the state clubs an opportunity to express their views and thoughts.

Top of my list of "to do" is to ask the forum members their thoughts and to gauge reactions as I for one have always found there is always an abundance of opinion worthy of serious consideration.

Nobody on here is totally right nor totally wrong but between all of the views, we should be able to produce something that is totally acceptable.
Rick

Offline HEVEN67

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« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2010, 06:09:28 pm »
Is this still going?....
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Offline jas24zzk

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« Reply #49 on: May 27, 2010, 07:46:40 pm »
Vewy Vewy Vewy interesting..  :f

Like several other 'commercial members' here, I began using a signature that reflected what I do for a living to qualify the answers to forum members queries.  It was never intended to be advertising.  My original 'commercial signature' did not even have a contact number.

I changed that when i recieved a u2u requesting my number for some adivce, as the member hated typing, and he still doesn't post here, simply reads :)   As a result, I get roughly 1 call per month, from a forum member asking advice. Advice that is given freely and cheerfully.

I originally joined this forum, some 6 years ago when I began working on a mates mustang, like many others for advice.  That has evolved to become a relaxing hour or so on the PC giving advice to other people who have a passion for stangs.

So today we stare at this issue of paying to advertise.. hmmm  this generates a mixed bag of thoughts.

a) Banner Advertising.
I HATE banners!  As suggested above, check out a few other car sites with banner advertising, just make sure you book in to see a good opthamologist first.

b) Unpaid Signature Advertising.
As stated elsewhere. If you don't post, you don't get seen.   You contribute your advice freely, and if you're lucky you might pick up some work out of it.

Someone suggested that this form of advertising makes the forum harder to read.  I question how it differs from someone that posts a sig that contains 20 lines on their cars specs,  or they have a mini banner with a photo of their pet dog or whatever?

c) Paid Signature Advertising.
Hmm, so now we PAY to give FREE advice, in our SPARE time.  (for the purpose of the discussion, we shall assume this to be acceptable, as it will generate enough work to cover the expense)
If we don't post, our ad isn't seen.  Provided the cost isn't ransom money, this is would be fine, as you are paying for the privilege of being 'recognised' should you wish to contribute.

As an interesting exercise, I ran through my customer list of work completed that has been generated directly through this forum simply to see how much it generates for me.  Given that no dollar value has been put forward as to what advertising here might cost, i chose an arbituary figure of $100 per year.

For the work received, if I was paying that amount, I would have to face the commercial fact that advertising here is not viable for my business.  For the record, the total amount spent with me by forum members over the last 6 years totals $6837,  including parts.  At $100 per year, it would bring new meaning to the expense column on my balance sheet.

d) Paid Forum Membership.
Sorry to whomever it was that suggested this, but it would be the end of this forum, as you would be lucky to get 10 people to pay, as there are so many other free alternatives.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I find it intriguing that with the length of time this discussion has been going, that there has been no contact from MOCA.  Tell me I'm stupid if you like, but given the nature of the discussion, and its implications, I would have thought MOCA would have made formal contact with those here that clearly have commercial interests a long time ago.  To me, that would force an 'official' response from the businesses here, that would give substance to the discussions held at the MOCA meetings, good hard solid data with which people can make decisions.

I look forward to my future mail from MOCA :+

Cheers
Jas