Mustang Owners Club Australia Forum
Technical & General Discussion Area => General Chat Room => Topic started by: dead66 on March 21, 2019, 02:24:57 pm
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Under new Federal import laws after December 2019 your car may never get full rego and will only be able for club rego that is if they get in. No matter what US seller tell you the government is about to stop many imports.
You are advised to check with you Australian importer before paying your money also get your restoration finished ASAP if it is made retrospective for this year.
Read on and enjoy the future of collecting.
LCT
A case has submitted for the abolition of the Luxury Car Tax on imported historic vehicles to the Treasurer in the hope of having it considered for inclusion in the April budget. It is an impressive document and I hope to be able to circulate it to all clubs in the near future.
RVS
The Road Vehicles Standards Acts were passed by parliament in December 2018 and will come into effect in December of this year. The rules that determine how the acts will work were “made” two weeks ago. We supported the efforts to gain some amendments to the rules. These are very detailed and complex laws so this brief description is intended to help in understanding the general principles involved. Further clarification will no doubt be necessary in some areas.
These new laws will affect all vehicles being imported to Australia from December 2019 onwards for many years to come. The reality is that over a million new cars are sold in Australia every year and with no local manufacturing, that means over a million new vehicles will be imported. By comparison, we rarely import more than 4,000 historic vehicles in a year and in recent times with a weaker Australian dollar and difficulties such as the LCT and the asbestos laws the number of imports of vehicles over 30 years of age are very small indeed. It has been difficult to get a good hearing when we are such a minority part of the overall picture. However with persistence and with some skills and experience the person representing the car movement did achieve some concessions.
The new laws will replace the existing arrangements for all types of vehicles. At the end of this year we lose our automatic right to import a vehicle that is over 30 years old.
Under the new laws all vehicles that enter Australia are required to be entered on a new on-line Register of Approved Vehicles (RAV). There are two main pathways to registration on the RAV.
“Type Approved” vehicles (which in practice will include all new or near new imports) will be the main group.
“Concessional” for vehicles that do not enjoy type approval. That group will include Older Vehicles which will be the main category for historic vehicle imports.
The age cut-off for the Older Vehicle Pathway (OVP) is 25 years so this does open the door to some more eligible vehicles but conflicts with the 30 years adopted by most states in Australia for Historic vehicle registration. Such 25 yo vehicles could of course be registered on full registration at the time of entry.
A vehicle entering Australia has to be proven to be roadworthy before it will be entered onto the RAV and in practice that means it will have to be registered.
There are two big issues in respect of this OVP that were left unaltered despite our representations:
There is a limit of 3.5 tonnes GVM on vehicles using this pathway and
It is an offence to “provide” a vehicle entered on the OVP until it is entered onto the RAV.
That means that a vehicle cannot be sold until registered so in the case of an owner’s death during a long restoration the vehicle would be permanently in limbo unable to be sold or included on the RAV.
The good news.
Given that no concessions were gained on the rules discussed above a solution to the two major problems was sought through other sections of the laws.
There is a provision for the importation of vehicles that are not for road use except under exceptional circumstances. These vehicles would not be required to be entered on the RAV and are free from the other restrictions of weight or sale. Approval to enter such vehicles for non-road use is subject to Minister’s approval on a case by case basis. However we have assurances that historic vehicles over 25 years old could enter by this route if they are restricted to registration on schemes that limit their use by time or distance. The various Historic Vehicle Registration Schemes in Australia differ from state to state but in principle, if the state registration authorities cooperate it will be possible to register vehicles entering this way on schemes such as our HVS and CVS.
Vehicles entering under this provision could never be fully registered in Australia.
While many of our clubs would not be concerned with the importation of vehicles, most have members who purchase vehicles that someone else has imported. After the new laws come into operation it will be important to establish the status of any recently imported vehicle before purchasing. We will all need to understand the new laws.
There will be a further meeting of “stakeholders” in Sydney this month where the Dept of Infrastructure will explain the entire package of laws and rules and there may be more clarifications to pass on from that and subsequent publications. It is unlikely that there will be any changes to the position explained above.
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Hi Folks
Someone tell me its a hoax!
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Sorry mates its very real, I got the report on the weekend and Im checking with my importer. Im waiting on the full details to come out.
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Just to play devil's advocate for a minute: if I understand the gist of these amendments correctly, there should be little to no change in the eligibility of classic cars to be imported for limited use as part of a historical vehicle/club permit scheme? If that's the case, how many people are there with classics on full rego currently using them as daily drivers that will be affected?
If VicRoads down here fall into line with these new rules, as I understand it we will actually be better off as we should have access to anything over 25 years old on a rolling basis rather than forever being stuck at 1989...
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At this time is it any coming in now so I have been informed but we will have to wait and read it. cars on club or full rego should be ok but the major motor companies want any vehicle over 8 years off the road so you will have to buy a new car off them.
However we have assurances that historic vehicles over 25 years old could enter by this route if they are restricted to registration on schemes that limit their use by time or distance. The various Historic Vehicle Registration Schemes in Australia differ from state to state but in principle, if the state registration authorities cooperate it will be possible to register vehicles entering this way on schemes such as our HVS and CVS.
This one is the bad one.
Vehicles entering under this provision could never be fully registered in Australia.
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Brian, it depends on what mustang you want, a real first to 1970 or from 1974 to now. I my self would only want the early cars as the later ones hold no attraction for me but thats peoples choice and how much money they have to spend.
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If that's the case, how many people are there with classics on full rego currently using them as daily drivers that will be affected?
I have my classic on full rego and potentially I could use it on a daily basis, and I use it almost every day when off work. If I understood correctly from above mine can stay on full rego.
I don't want to register under club permit, car use seems very limited to me.
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Thats what I have been told
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So a classic mustang currently on club rego will, under the new rules, still be able to switch over to a full rego after the new rules come in?
But a classic mustang imported post new rules will most likely only be able to go on club rego?
I've just bought a 67 fastback out of Queensland to WA, so right now it is unregistered.
I was going to put it on club rego, but if my first sentence above is incorrect and that means it can never go on full rego I will rethink that.
If we have some classic vehicles able to achieve full rego, and others that can't, well there may be 2 different market values applied.
Any thoughts anyone?
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I asked this last question of a Sydney dealer and he thinks that the club plate car will be worth less than full rego car, I want mine finished by September for full rego.
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i totally agree also and with the number of people using club rego for daily drivers including a tow truck i saw the other day , i wouldn't be surprised to see vic roads tighten or alter the club reg scheme
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Hopefully the final decision is that it only applies to recent imports.
My project has import approval from 10yrs ago but hasn't been registered in Australia yet.
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Hopefully the final decision is that it only applies to recent imports.
My project has import approval from 10yrs ago but hasn't been registered in Australia yet.
+1 to that. I still have 2 years left in my 56 f100 build , so not happy Jan.
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David, the problem with the Vic red plate is the people who are using it to not pay full rego, I have seen camper vans with those plates in north Queensland and in WA so we have some low life grey nomads stealing your club plates for their cheap use. I have seen some auto parts and full time swap meet vendors doing the same thing from Vic but it goes on in each state and only takes one good screw up to kill it for all clubs.
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So this only effects cars imported post 2019.?
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We hope so, will not know till final draft is released in the coming month.
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David, the problem with the Vic red plate is the people who are using it to not pay full rego, I have seen camper vans with those plates in north Queensland and in WA so we have some low life grey nomads stealing your club plates for their cheap use. I have seen some auto parts and full time swap meet vendors doing the same thing from Vic but it goes on in each state and only takes one good screw up to kill it for all clubs.
Isn't that a completely different matter from what you started this thread with?
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David, the problem with the Vic red plate is the people who are using it to not pay full rego,
Isn't that what we're all using it for?
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Mark, the info I get is from the controlling body for car clubs in Canberra and the SMA which is a big group. What we are now waiting on is the next draft or white paper with more details as Im sitting on two cars in the USA and is it going to work bringing them over as daily drives cars or club cars or make racing cars out of them. The diversion with David was my comment to him on how so many people abuse the club system, can you tell me where I have made a mistake please. Ray
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David, the problem with the Vic red plate is the people who are using it to not pay full rego, I have seen camper vans with those plates in north Queensland and in WA so we have some low life grey nomads stealing your club plates for their cheap use. I have seen some auto parts and full time swap meet vendors doing the same thing from Vic but it goes on in each state and only takes one good screw up to kill it for all clubs.
I don't have a problem with people having their campers on the permit scheme if the vehicle qualifies for the scheme which is there for private and recreational use. Obviously they can only use it for the 90 days per year, but my beef is with people using the vehicle for commercial use which isn't allowed, or like one guy I met who was filling his log book in pencil and erasing it when he gets home. It's a terrific scheme, especially for people who have multiple cars or bikes, and I would hate to see it abolished because of a few selfish morons who don't follow the rules.
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like one guy I met who was filling his log book in pencil and erasing it when he gets home.
This practice is illegal and if a cop ever pulls him over to check his book (this has actually happened to me) then he's in trouble. That said, I'm sure there's quite a few getting away with it as there's heaps of people obviously using their club permit cars as daily drivers.
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I don't have a problem with people having their campers on the permit scheme if the vehicle qualifies for the scheme which is there for private and recreational use. Obviously they can only use it for the 90 days per year, but my beef is with people using the vehicle for commercial use which isn't allowed, or like one guy I met who was filling his log book in pencil and erasing it when he gets home. It's a terrific scheme, especially for people who have multiple cars or bikes, and I would hate to see it abolished because of a few selfish morons who don't follow the rules.
I think we can all agree with that.
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This practice is illegal and if a cop ever pulls him over to check his book (this has actually happened to me) then he's in trouble. That said, I'm sure there's quite a few getting away with it as there's heaps of people obviously using their club permit cars as daily drivers.
That's right. Page 1 of the logbook has this: "All entries must be made in non-erasable blue or black pen". I have been pulled over too and, while my logbook was all in order, the young walloper did very politely suggest that I get a new biro as it was a bit faint. He also endorsed the book himself (and his biro was in full working order)
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Hi Guys, Im waiting on more updates but here is one for the NSW club members.
The Trial of 60 day Log Books for HVS and CVS will conclude in September
From then, RMS will decide whether Log Books should become a permanent arrangement, and if
so, whether any changes need be made.
Prior to this, RMS will be conducting an online survey relating to the Log Book Trial.
The Survey will be conducted in the last weeks of May,
CHMC has provided RMS with Affiliated Club’s digital contacts for this purpose.
It is understood that both Clubs and individual members may take part in the survey.
CHMC will be hosting an open forum at the Griffith AGM to gauge members input to its response to
the Survey and to elaborate if needed in a separate and formal Council response to the RMS.
Clubs delegates to the AGM should be aware of, and be prepared to provide, all aspects of their
Club’s views to the Griffith forum.
We encourage Clubs and members to take part in, and make carefully considered responses to the
RMS Survey.
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What an amazing bunch of crap you guys have to put up with.
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What an amazing bunch of crap you guys have to put up with.
Don't you live in the country of California?
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Don't you live in the country of California?
oh yeah, you have to have wear special underwear here so when you fart, it can catch the green house gas coming out of your ass, HOWEVER, they will in fact register anything here as long as you have enough money, and they couldn't care less if it has huge holes in the floors irregardless of the year, or no fenders as long as it is a vintage car, which includes the early mustangs. They also don't care how modified the engine is as long as it will pass the emissions test which is only applicable for 75 and newer vehicles.
Also, we can drive to Arizona around 3 hours away, and get a car registered there and not pay any sales tax, and the plates and tags for 1 year are only around $50.00.
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they will in fact register anything here as long as you have enough money, and they couldn't care less if it has huge holes in the floors irregardless of the year, or no fenders as long as it is a vintage car, which includes the early mustangs. They also don't care how modified the engine is as long as it will pass the emissions test which is only applicable for 75 and newer vehicles.
Also, we can drive to Arizona around 3 hours away, and get a car registered there and not pay any sales tax, and the plates and tags for 1 year are only around $50.00.
Love it! :cheers:
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Love it! :cheers:
:thumb:
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I bought an 88 Corvette from a guy in Cleveland which was on Historic plates, and from memory I think he told me he only had to pay a one off 20 dollar fee.
Wish we had the same system here.
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We will never have the same system here. Think about it. Australia is not only a country...it is a continent also with vast distances between major cities and population less than 10% of mainland USA we simply don't have enough taxpayers to fund millions of kilometers of roads.
USA mainland has 50 states. Australia has 8 to cover the same distance of roads......
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What an amazing bunch of crap you guys have to put up with.
The log book thing is just you can get cheap rego Barnett, in some states on old cars, limits how many times you can drive them. Not sure what full V8 reg is in other states but in Queensland it would be over $1000 a year. I get scammed here on my Ford Ranger, its 5 cyl turbo diesel, so because there is no 5 cylinder reg format I have to pay for a 6 cylinder.
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Just got my rego renewal for the 67. It's a tad over $1100.
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Just got my rego renewal for the 67. It's a tad over $1100.
Just got my Concessional for Frankenstang in QLD. Its gone up from $183 to $223 for the year
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I am a Australian Army officer in the USA. I have been driving my 65 Coupe for the last three years as a daily driver, had the asbestos removed this year, ready for shipping home. I know of at least three others that are doing the same as I am with cars returning to Australian sometime in December 2019 to February 2020.
From your post, it appears that we need to ensure that I need to have the car back in Australian before 01 Dec 19, so any further updates would be appreciated.
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OK Folks, lets make this a bit more interesting, this is the log book questions from the RMS as to see if they close the it or change it. only clubs can answer it as they had the idea to let owners but then changed it NSW only on this.
LOG BOOK TRIAL REVIEW 2019
The RMS is undertaking a review of the Classic Vehicle Log Book Trial. Clubs are able to have
input into the review in two ways, through a survey and/or by participation in Focus Group
Sessions.
The survey is designed to collect feedback from RMS recognised Historic Vehicle clubs and
Classic Vehicle Scheme Approved Organisations that are participating in the Log Book Trial. Clubs
are asked to collate feedback from members and submit ONE response per club.
The objective of this survey is to identify:
1. Stakeholder experience with the use of the log book.
2. Whether stakeholders support the log book being made a permanent feature of the Historic
and Classic Vehicle Scheme.
3. Any safety risks associated with the additional road access enabled by the log book trial
and how these should be mitigated.
4. Whether there are appropriate compliance and enforcement measures in place to identify
misuse/non-compliance of the log book
Survey Questions:
1. Please provide the name of your Club
2. How would your members rate the experience with RMS through Service NSW when
obtaining or renewing a log book and responsiveness to questions/concerns relating to the
log book trial? (1-5)
3. Why did you provide this rating? What could be improved?
4. Has your club experienced additional administrative burden as a result of the log book trial?
5. Please provide further information regarding this administrative burden.
6. Has there been an increased interest in club membership since the log book trial
commenced?
7. Has your club membership grown as a result?
8. Please provide further information regarding club membership levels.
9. Is there a need to enhance eligibility and compliance of the Historic and Classic Vehicle
Log Book Trial to deter misuse?
10. What additional actions can be taken by RMS to enhance the Historic and Classic Vehicle
Log Book Trial and prevent misuse?
11. Have your members had any difficulty complying with conditions or using the log book?
12. Please provide further information regarding the difficulties experienced.
13. Has communication from RMS to update clubs on the status of the log book trial been
effective?
14. How could RMS manage this better? (i.e. email, forums, surveys, mail)
15. How easy has it been to manage the physical log book?
16. Please provide your reasons for this rating.
17. Would a digital or other option be preferred? (e.g. a mobile app)
18. Should Roads and Maritime Services make the log book trial a permanent option?
19. Why? What alternatives could be considered?
20. Please select all registration types that apply to your club:
21. If you selected other, please indicate the type of vehicle:
22. Where is your club based? (Metro is considered Newcastle to Wollongong to Katoomba)
23. Are you happy to participate in further RMS questionnaires or to be contacted further
regarding the Historical and Classic Vehicle Schemes?
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Reply to Geoff, that was the last I have heard so far but I would get it here by November.Takes 8 to 10 weeks to ship so take that into account.
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I think there is a lot of misinformation flying around on this topic. Just had a bit of a wade through the actual implementation of the new legislation (Road Vehicle Standards Rules 2018) and came across this section:
"36 Eligibility criterion—older vehicles
(1) A road vehicle satisfies the eligibility criterion set out in this section if the Minister is satisfied that:
(a) the vehicle is in one of the following vehicle categories:
(i) Passenger Car (MA);
(ii) Forward‑control Passenger Vehicle (MB);
(iii) Off‑road Passenger Vehicle (MC);
(iv) Moped ‑ 2 wheels (LA);
(v) Moped ‑ 3 wheels (LB);
(vi) Motor cycle (LC);
(vii) Motor cycle and side‑car (LD);
(viii) Motor tricycle (LE);
(ix) Light Goods Vehicle (NA); and
(b) the vehicle has a relevant build date that is at least 25 years before the date of the application."
Based on the above, any passenger car more than 25 years old should be eligible for private importation, just as the current situation is for vehicles manufactured before 1989. I also read somewhere that the registration requirements for such vehicles will be left in the hands of the states, again as is the case currently.
Can't see what all the fuss is about... :shrug:
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I think there is a lot of misinformation flying around on this topic. Just had a bit of a wade through the actual implementation of the new legislation (Road Vehicle Standards Rules 2018) .......
I agree. I've read the legislation and it doesn't actually state rego requirements that I can see... Happy to be corrected however. As this Act replaces the current Act in full it's hard to comprehend and to see if this Act covers registration. Without spending hours I don't have dissecting it all, I think this Act covers bringing the car in and the States will determine what can and cannot be registered.
I just spoke to the NSW RMS and they advised me (Colin was the bloke if it goes to court) that the Federal Government has no say in States determining rego. So as I suspect, the new laws are dealing with the ability for people to bring in new cars that are not offered here, rather than us hoons bringing in old cars for fun.
As long as your Mustang complies with the section quoted above by BAC you then have to comply with the State you are registering it in laws.
For me and my '70 I need to have the indicators changed to the reverse lights (you must have 2 x stop/brake lights showing when in use) and VSCC certification for the seat belts.
I did find this however:
What's new
Extension of commencement of Road Vehicle Standards legislation
The Australian Government has extended the commencement date of the Road Vehicle Standards legislation to ensure that governments, manufacturers and importers have sufficient time to prepare for the transition to the new arrangements.
The Government will continue to work with all affected stakeholders to agree on and set a new commencement date, which will be no later than 1 July 2021. Further updates on matters related to the Road Vehicle Standards legislation will continue to be posted on this website.
This was off https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/vehicles/rvs/index.aspx so I gather we are safe for a few years yet?