Mustang Owners Club Australia Forum

Technical & General Discussion Area => Technical - General => Topic started by: GT/CS68 on May 03, 2017, 12:18:21 am

Title: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: GT/CS68 on May 03, 2017, 12:18:21 am
Hi all,

I'm new here,so excuse me if this has already been posted.
I've got a 68 California special and am considering resting the 289 and replacing it with something a little more powerful.

I'm after a streetable/driveable engine without wanting to break the bank if not necessary for my needs.

From those with more experience, is a 351w a good upgrade choice over the 347 stroker? Any other input would be appreciated.

Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: ND69 on May 03, 2017, 01:20:34 am
Hi, I've always liked the CS,

331,347, lighter, which is better for your front end, and car balance

Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: GT/CS68 on May 03, 2017, 01:52:24 am
What do you think of crate engines? Or can anyone in the forum recommend an engine builder whose credible ?
Hi, I've always liked the CS,

331,347, lighter, which is better for your front end, and car balance
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: Dwayne on May 03, 2017, 07:58:04 am
Fataz Competition Engines are regularly recommended on here, particularly by people who know what they're talking about.

Crate engines are pretty hit and miss by the sounds of it. Sometimes you get lucky and get a good one.
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: shaunp on May 03, 2017, 08:04:59 am
What do you think of crate engines? Or can anyone in the forum recommend an engine builder whose credible ?

So 347 is great combo, particularly if your early block is ok as they are stronger then the later 302 block, a good 347 will make mid 400hp and be perfectly street-able. The rotating assemble is lighter then a 351 and the mains bearings are smaller so less heat and friction than a 351. 351 is bigger heavier and stronger but I wouldn't consider one unless going to a 408 stroker. You could make a 347 look almost stock in the bay. Talk to Ian Woodward at Fataz racing in Brisbane tell him Shaun sent you. Or if you want talk about what to build I'm happy talk about options. Boofhead on this forum has 347 kit for sale as it happens.

below is my 347, which is likely more than you need, you could get away with cheaper heads depending on the HP you want

(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn64/shaunp289/IMG_0866_zpsrysd0fjm.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/shaunp289/media/IMG_0866_zpsrysd0fjm.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: GLENN 70 on May 03, 2017, 08:37:48 am
The 347 is a good option and is a good choice for your mustang . Your model mustang only comes with the small Windsor so you could make it look std looking if that's what your after or look like a hi performance engine also . My 66 has a 347 that to the untrained eye looks stock except the dizzy and extractors ,and that's the way I want it .. It depends on the HP you want also ? A nice 347 could be 400 to 470 HP but if you go a 351 stroker to a 408 your looking at 450HP to 550 HP  .  Either way your auto trans will need an upgrade and the diff centre and exhaust system . It s  a catch 22 when getting more HP ,it doesn't stop at the engine . Your old 289 might have around 200 HP so you might be happy with 350 ish HP  :shrug:
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: boofhead on May 03, 2017, 09:12:54 am
Unless your after more than 500hp the 347 is the best engine. Otherwise a 351 stoked to 408 is the go. I would personably never build a plain 351w performance engine as a 347 will be better in all areas.

I do have a 347 kit plus cam plus heads I was going to build for my mustang but change of circumstances so willing to sell it off. PM if serious.
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: GT/CS68 on May 03, 2017, 12:58:02 pm
So 347 is great combo, particularly if your early block is ok as they are stronger then the later 302 block, a good 347 will make mid 400hp and be perfectly street-able. The rotating assemble is lighter then a 351 and the mains bearings are smaller so less heat and friction than a 351. 351 is bigger heavier and stronger but I wouldn't consider one unless going to a 408 stroker. You could make a 347 look almost stock in the bay. Talk to Ian Woodward at Fataz racing in Brisbane tell him Shaun sent you. Or if you want talk about what to build I'm happy talk about options. Boofhead on this forum has 347 kit for sale as it happens.

below is my 347, which is likely more than you need, you could get away with cheaper heads depending on the HP you want

(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn64/shaunp289/IMG_0866_zpsrysd0fjm.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/shaunp289/media/IMG_0866_zpsrysd0fjm.jpg.html)


Sounds good,thanks for the info...I didn't know about the block strength. Has boofhead got the kit advertised on another forum? Sorry I'm new to the whole forum thing,so need a bit of direction.
Fataz seems to be the common recommendation,so I'll go with them by the sounds of it
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: GT/CS68 on May 03, 2017, 12:59:38 pm
Unless your after more than 500hp the 347 is the best engine. Otherwise a 351 stoked to 408 is the go. I would personably never build a plain 351w performance engine as a 347 will be better in all areas.

I do have a 347 kit plus cam plus heads I was going to build for my mustang but change of circumstances so willing to sell it off. PM if serious.

Sorry boofhead,only just read this after I sent.
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: boofhead on May 03, 2017, 01:20:12 pm
I have not officially advertised it at all. Just mentioned it - Shaunp and I have build engines and played with cars together.  We are friends.
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: shaunp on May 03, 2017, 02:02:55 pm

Sounds good,thanks for the info...I didn't know about the block strength. Has boofhead got the kit advertised on another forum? Sorry I'm new to the whole forum thing,so need a bit of direction.
Fataz seems to be the common recommendation,so I'll go with them by the sounds of it

Yep Talk to Woody I know him well, they build not only street engines but much of the business is propper race engines.
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: GT/CS68 on May 03, 2017, 02:20:17 pm
So if I use my standard block,no need to change headers ? Will the 4 speed need anything more than a stronger clutch?
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: GLENN 70 on May 03, 2017, 03:36:37 pm
Header change ,depends on what you have .  If your going to build a 347 that's great but what HP are you chasing ? Mild to wild ?  You did say just some more HP . Your top loader will be fine but yes the clutch might be a problem . With a good HP increase you will spin one wheel unless you fit a true trac diff .  My 347 is around 430 HP at best and that's plenty on the street .
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: shaunp on May 03, 2017, 03:59:57 pm
What headers do you have now is the question. You would balance it with a new clutch anyway
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: GT/CS68 on May 03, 2017, 04:49:21 pm
Header change ,depends on what you have .  If your going to build a 347 that's great but what HP are you chasing ? Mild to wild ?  You did say just some more HP . Your top loader will be fine but yes the clutch might be a problem . With a good HP increase you will spin one wheel unless you fit a true trac diff .  My 347 is around 430 HP at best and that's plenty on the street .


I'd be going for a mild setup, not chasing crazy hp
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: GT/CS68 on May 03, 2017, 04:55:55 pm
What headers do you have now is the question. You would balance it with a new clutch anyway

Not sure,I'll take a look
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: shaunp on May 03, 2017, 06:26:57 pm

I'd be going for a mild setup, not chasing crazy hp

mild 347 is twice what you have now.
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: GT/CS68 on May 03, 2017, 07:16:34 pm
Exactly shaunp, and it gives me a decent base to improve on
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: shaunp on May 03, 2017, 07:46:53 pm
Exactly shaunp, and it gives me a decent base to improve on

You'll be surprised how quick they are, with the right diff an average 347 is a 12 sec 1/4 car, a better one is and 11 sec car, so you can scare Clubsports with them pretty easy.
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: GLENN 70 on May 03, 2017, 08:01:01 pm
Your car being a manual ( factory) your diff ratio might be ok . Might be a 3.00 :1 ratio or even a 3.25 type ratio .   Do you know what it is ? . Going from around 200 HP to around 400 HP will put a smile on your dial  :grin: .
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: GT/CS68 on May 03, 2017, 08:12:35 pm
Your car being a manual ( factory) your diff ratio might be ok . Might be a 3.00 :1 ratio or even a 3.25 type ratio .   Do you know what it is ? . Going from around 200 HP to around 400 HP will put a smile on your dial  :grin: .

It was actually an auto converted to 4 speed top loader with a 9" diff,
Only got the car delivered last week so will have to check out the ratio
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: GLENN 70 on May 03, 2017, 08:27:52 pm
Ok you need to check that out because that is a huge factor . What part of the coast you in ?
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: GT/CS68 on May 03, 2017, 08:36:58 pm
Broadbeach waters, I've got the car at my mechanics at the moment as I'm overseas...still havent even sat in it...can't wait to get back
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: Pinto Pete on May 03, 2017, 09:12:02 pm
  Your model mustang only comes with the small Windsor so you could make it look std looking if that's what your after or look like a hi performance engine   

The only engine that wasn't on the books was the 427...
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: GLENN 70 on May 03, 2017, 09:26:55 pm
Pinto Pete really ,I didn't know the CS had so many engine options . I thought they were all small blocks . I must admit I don't know a lot about the California Special mustangs .
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: GT/CS68 on May 03, 2017, 10:16:33 pm
You could pretty much order whatever spec combo you desired for the model...however the majority ended up being 289s
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: GLENN 70 on May 03, 2017, 10:33:28 pm
I suppose I haven't taken much notice of the CS mustangs and to be honest all the ones I have seen were all small windsors and no big blocks .   You learn something new every day hey  :grin:
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: GT/CS68 on May 03, 2017, 11:44:59 pm
I suppose I haven't taken much notice of the CS mustangs and to be honest all the ones I have seen were all small windsors and no big blocks .   You learn something new every day hey  :grin:

I didn't know much about them either until I bought one lol
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: Pinto Pete on May 04, 2017, 07:51:13 pm
One of the members on here had a big block one... :thumb:
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: ND69 on May 04, 2017, 08:11:44 pm
 Bumblebee's red CS has a factory 390 in it, it was at the Nationals last year,

Red with Vinyl roof,

 
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: ND69 on May 04, 2017, 08:22:51 pm
Pic 153

http://qld.mustang.org.au/images/photos-2016/qld-nats-250316/pages/DSC_0635.htm
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: GT/CS68 on May 04, 2017, 08:24:19 pm
That's beautiful
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: barnett468 on May 06, 2017, 04:17:56 pm
Pinto Pete really ,I didn't know the CS had so many engine options . I thought they were all small blocks . I must admit I don't know a lot about the California Special mustangs .

you could get a 390 as well as a 2 or 4 barrel small block.

he only way to know if it is a real cal special is to have the orig paperwork or get a marti report or ford report.

if you want it to look stock you need to use iron heads and an iron intake . you can get decent performing iron heads but the iron intake will limit power.

 
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: GT/CS68 on May 06, 2017, 06:09:10 pm
you could get a 390 as well as a 2 or 4 barrel small block.

he only way to know if it is a real cal special is to have the orig paperwork or get a marti report or ford report.

if you want it to look stock you need to use iron heads and an iron intake . you can get decent performing iron heads but the iron intake will limit power.

Luckily I got both original paperwork and marti report...I was originally going to put the stock engine to the side and use a later model roller 302 block as the base... but a few of the members have steered me towards using the old block
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: GLENN 70 on May 06, 2017, 06:28:06 pm
Hmm old block I don't know ,they are a little stronger but your not building a big HP engine or revving it's  :shrug: :cool: off . Doing your old engine might be opening a can of worms .
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: GT/CS68 on May 06, 2017, 06:42:04 pm
Do you suggest going for a later model roller?
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: GLENN 70 on May 06, 2017, 07:05:02 pm
You can ask the experts on here .  But here's my thoughts .  A good late model roller engine ,leave it and don't stroke it ,because your not after a high HP engine . 350 HP  ish I would think will be plenty .  670 street avenger Holley carb , edelbrock RPM  air gap intake ,good alloy heads like trick flow or AFR ,good Hyd roller cam etc , MSD dizzy etc  ,double row timing chain set ,extractors and twin 2.5 exhaust . A 302 will rev easy to 6000 and more if wanted .  You may not have to rebuild the bottom end with these late engines if it hasn't done a million Klms .  Your old block may or may not be able to be borded out and the water jackets might be in bad condition . I've seen plenty of old block that are junk . Wait till the others have their say about it .
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: barnett468 on May 07, 2017, 04:00:54 am
Luckily I got both original paperwork and marti report...I was originally going to put the stock engine to the side and use a later model roller 302 block as the base... but a few of the members have steered me towards using the old block

it all comes down to what you really want and how much money you have.

both early and late blocks are fine with 400 hp or so.

if your current engine runs perfectly and you want to put it bavk to stock someday, it might make more sense in your articular case if you get another core to build if you have a place to store your other engine etc.

Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: barnett468 on May 07, 2017, 04:02:28 am
revving it's tits off .

ummm...and just where are the "tits" on an engine?  :lmao:
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: GLENN 70 on May 07, 2017, 08:59:22 am
With the late model engine it's already a roller block / cam engine and are a very good engine . With the right mods it can get 1.2 HP per cu.inch ,so 350 plus HP no problems .  If you wanted a stock looking engine like mine , go stock air leaner modified a little ,a edelbrock RPM intake with a 1/2 inch open spacer ,then grind the markings off it and then paint it blue . Do the same with the alloy heads and a stock looking dizzy and have people scratching their heads wondering why it goes so well  :lmao: .    You must check the diff ratio and you must change the ratio if it's a 3.0 -2.8 or so .
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: boofhead on May 07, 2017, 02:02:37 pm
Hmm old block I don't know ,they are a little stronger but your not building a big HP engine or revving it's tits off . Doing your old engine might be opening a can of worms .

My view is do the old engine - better base and is legal for your car. It can be argued (and has been by most RTAs) late model engine is not due to pollution control laws unless totally original including efi and ecu.

If you find the early block is done then look at alternatives (such as a dart block).

Note: Roller cam is no issue in an early block - I always use linked bar lifters regardless of the block.

Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: boofhead on May 07, 2017, 02:04:01 pm
ummm...and just where are the "tits" on an engine?  :lmao:

You have obviously rev'd them off your engines....
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: barnett468 on May 07, 2017, 02:45:26 pm
You have obviously rev'd them off your engines....

 I guess you are right! :lmao:
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: sms777 on May 08, 2017, 07:38:57 pm
ummm...and just where are the "tits" on an engine?  :lmao:
They are located up top where normally  "tits" are.... :grin:
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: barnett468 on May 09, 2017, 07:16:37 am
They are located up top where normally  "tits" are.... :grin:

ummm...I guess that would depend on whether one has them upside down or not.  :lmao:
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: boofhead on May 09, 2017, 07:57:35 am
Only on 69s
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: barnett468 on May 09, 2017, 12:31:10 pm
Only on 69s

oh my....I think peter may soon scold us if this keeps up.  :lmao:
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on May 09, 2017, 03:38:06 pm
oh my....I think peter may soon scold us if this keeps up.  :lmao:

Too much fun being had in here...  :toetapping:
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: GLENN 70 on May 09, 2017, 04:13:59 pm
What are you guys talking about  :shrug:
Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: barnett468 on May 09, 2017, 04:47:27 pm
What are you guys talking about  :shrug:

I actually believe you don't know.  :kickass:

Just relax, kick back, grab another ice cold "FOSTERS LAGER...Australians Favorite Beer", and watch reruns of last years lawn bowling championships...OR, take some viagra and ask your wife to show ya what we're talking bout!  :lmao:

Title: Re: Engine options 347 or 351?
Post by: barnett468 on May 09, 2017, 04:49:24 pm
Too much fun being had in here...  :toetapping:

That's ok I think the fun police have finally found the many pleasures of Prozac.:bolt: