Mustang Owners Club Australia Forum
Technical & General Discussion Area => Technical - General => Topic started by: mattstruck on December 21, 2012, 10:20:05 pm
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Anyone had experience or know anything about ProComp or these kits?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-FORD-289-302-WINDSOR-CYLINDER-HEAD-TOP-END-COMBO-KIT-/310532860256?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item484d336960 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-FORD-289-302-WINDSOR-CYLINDER-HEAD-TOP-END-COMBO-KIT-/310532860256?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item484d336960)
Cheap easy horse power I guess but im not sure. Don't want to put something in that's going to fail or cause me issues.
Thinking of combining it with a Thump cam kit:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cake31-601-5 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cake31-601-5)
Later look into a 347 stoker kit for down the bottom.... later :grin:
I have a 66 289 (on the ship) :tissue:
Any advice appreciated.
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A quick search on here and a Google of the interweb will tell you the answer is.....no.
Such a big no that you will most likely find it cheaper and more time saving if you threw your money in the bin and run as fast as possible.
Steer clear of anything ProCrap. I read someone's sig on here earlier which says it well, "cheap isn't good and good isn't cheap".
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I fugured as much...
Comp cams Thumpr cam should be good kit though? Its really just to impress my mates :lmao:
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I haven't had a Thumper cam, but have been told that that is what their made for, making a good sound. So you should accomplish that one well :thumb:
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A quick search on here and a Google of the interweb will tell you the answer is.....no.
Such a big no that you will most likely find it cheaper and more time saving if you threw your money in the bin and run as fast as possible.
Steer clear of anything ProCrap. I read someone's sig on here earlier which says it well, "cheap isn't good and good isn't cheap".
A search on here does not produce any result for Procomp.
Just send a message to Paul (LuvHev) and ask him what he thinks but, do make sure he is sitting down and he has had his happy pill before asking.
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A search on here does not produce any result for Procomp.
You sure? I found heaps
Make sure you search the whole site, not just the forum that this thread is in which is what it defaults to if you use the search bar at the top of this page.
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Ahhh! A bit of extra experience helps a lot.
You are right, I searched from the message I think. Anyways, a good hint where I have learnt a little more and for the benefit of others too.
I was somewhat surprised as I seem to remember this product had been discussed extensively and (unfortunately) not always in a positive manner.
My warning still stands in relation to Paul (LuvHev) ... do not be standing too close to him :bolt: when the product name is mentioned :kickass:
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It always makes me think of this example with the MSD ignition units. Towards the bottom of the page.
http://www.mustang.org.au/forum/index.php/topic,18992.msg191681.html#msg191681 (http://www.mustang.org.au/forum/index.php/topic,18992.msg191681.html#msg191681)
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Just send a message to Paul (LuvHev) and ask him what he thinks but, do make sure he is sitting down and he has had his happy pill before asking.
[/quote]
Please, dont het him started on ProComp ( or ProJunk as he likes to call them ). :lmao:
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Pro comp is rubbish ,even the americans are starting to know that now ,its sold at every swap meet over there .Compcams thumper cams are ok ,good for the lumpy sound out the back and able to run without a big hi stall ,but lack a bit of HP .A friend has just fitted the biggest thumper hyd cam in his 460 BB ,should sound good ,but will only make around 520 HP .
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I have seen a 347 make 550hp with Pro Comp heads but would have to agree with the other posts and steer clear of them. They are hit and miss in quality and can cost more than a quality set one you have fixed them.
Be aware the thumper cam range isn't going to give you much manifold vacuum for power brakes.
Very low vacuum can cause issues with fouling spark plugs as well. They get that lumpy idle due to large inlet and exhaust valve overlap.
I'd be inclined to build a decent 347 with a performance hyd roller cam rather than a thumper cam engine just for the idle.
It'll sound better in any case.
Just my .02 worth :-)
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blue oval you are totally right, spot on .My 347 has a comp cams roller ,a very basic engine around 440 HP ,took it to the drags once went ok ran 12.3 @114 mph ,too slow off the line but not set up for drag racing with hwy gearing and a small vac sec carby .Can get it to run 11s all day with a few mods but i am too lazy .
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I used a Comp Cams Nostalgia grind hydraulic cam in my current engine and loved it so much I bought the same one but a solid lifter version for my new engine......when it is running slow it has a great 60's style lumpy sound.....you can hear it here, even though it idling a bit quick it still sounds good.
1966 SHELBY GT350H (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6WDSzSzas4#)
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blue oval you are totally right, spot on .My 347 has a comp cams roller ,a very basic engine around 440 HP ,took it to the drags once went ok ran 12.3 @114 mph ,too slow off the line but not set up for drag racing with hwy gearing and a small vac sec carby .Can get it to run 11s all day with a few mods but i am too lazy .
I reckon you could run an 11 sec there with 114 mph. Presuming your weight is around 3000lb.
I'd prefer your combo to a thumper cam that is all noise and not much go :-)
If people here the lumpy idle they expect it to go.
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I used a Comp Cams Nostalgia grind hydraulic cam in my current engine and loved it so much I bought the same one but a solid lifter version for my new engine......when it is running slow it has a great 60's style lumpy sound.....you can hear it here, even though it idling a bit quick it still sounds good.
1966 SHELBY GT350H (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6WDSzSzas4#)
Sounds good from that clip :thumb:
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With low gears perfect traction ,and no other mods could run 11.5 at 114mph but 11.8 would be more like it .Its a 66 coupe so with me in it should weigh in at around 2800lbs .My 60 foot times were slack 2.1 ,need a tru track and 3.9 gears ,slicks and a 750 holley to wake it up .My 65 coupe has balls 393 stroker around 560 HP .A pro comp cam is ok ,but not much else .
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A pro comp cam is ok ,but not much else .
How much really do you save though over a quality cam? I haven't looked but I guess it couldn't be more then $50 maybe? Even if it were half the price of a Comp or a Lunati or something quality, it's going to be a minimal saving, cams are not dear in the scheme of things. Really don't think that is worth the risk.
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A quality cam is more than worth the extra dollars. Espeically in any sort of performance engine.
Cam failure or the associated components can trash a new engine.
It's really a fairly cheap engine component and I can't think why anyone would skimp here.
If you can't afford to build it right you probably shouldn't be building it at all.
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I've had Pro comp roller rockers in my engine, and I'll never use pro comp again,
after 2yrs the majority of the rollers had siezed and worn flat spots on them, and one rocker had cracked through the body,
not worth taking chances with cheap internal components.
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Thanks lads. I knew it seemed too cheap. Good things cost good money. I should have known better :leaving: :ouch:
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All that pro comp gear is just not finished off as good as brand name stuff. Cheap because of that. If you have to re seat valves and cut seats for springs. Upgrade springs and locks/guides .. Seals etc. by time you pay to do all that properly a set of AFR's or Darts will cost less. No guarantee they are bolt on either as I had to re seat 4/5 valves on my first set of 185 AFR's. .. Boils down to who is building your engine .... Guy who is building my engine at moment built a 355 for a mate of his using only pro comp gear... Tool him 4 times as long to machine everything up properly to his standards. If he was being charged accordingly then maching would have been 5/6k... Crank/rods and heads... All procomp ... Engine went into a Capri an ran 10.20.... Engine still running after 5 years and then hit that with a shot of gas and has gone 9.30's. I asked about procomp gear with first engine but he made it clear what was involved to make it work properly. Even he was surprised it went that quick and its still together.
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. There is a Camaro sponsored by procomp in Sydney that's a drag car. ... Ask them if any bits on their engine are actually pro comp..????? Doubt it.
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ProComp Heads are rubbish. Don't even bother. Pay a little bit more and get the edelbrock heads. You can't go wrong and they are made in America not CHINA.
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Yes, as others have suggested.. Spend that little bit more and get a decent set, then you'll have no probs further down the track.
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AFR & Trickflow are what you want on a Windsor.
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After those, edelbrock rpm heads not E series . F the pro comp stuff .
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AFR & Trickflow are what you want on a Windsor.
Worth getting out of the states or reasonable locally? If so who do you guys recommend?
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Check out your speed shops in vic ,or rocket industries nsw .Go buy just parts mag as well .Really come down to what you are after ,performance wise and the rest of your engine and running gear .You do one thing you have to do other things to match .
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There is someone on the bay selling Ford motorsport "Z" series heads in AUS for around $1300 complete. Probably cheaper than importing Pro Comp.
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There is someone on the bay selling Ford motorsport "Z" series heads in AUS for around $1300 complete. Probably cheaper than importing Pro Comp.
You get some entry level AFRs for $1600-$1700. From Rocket I reckon. They will be better than the Z heads.
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Or you could do what I did and buy fully CNC ported assembled Brodix 5.0 heads from Keith Craft for $1800 landed.
I was just showing there are other options out there other than Pro Comp for around the same money as Pro Comp.
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Ok, so which are the best for a 289?
Who makes the best quality?
Just want a fun reliable mild street engine which goes well (possible 347 stroker later on) which sounds good. RELIABLE being the key word here!
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The more exotic heads generally work better for 347+CI. You won't be able to get a set of heads that will work on both combinations without porting for the 347.
For a mild 289 I would think a rebuilt set of cast iron GT40 (Not GT40p) heads would do the trick.
Otherwise the Edelbrock E street heads probably aren't over the top. They will drop your compression though. The original heads have an approx 56cc combustion chamber.
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These look like good value :
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ford-289-302-351-Windsor-Edelbrock-E-Street-Cylinder-Heads-ED5025-/400381204731?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d389458fb (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ford-289-302-351-Windsor-Edelbrock-E-Street-Cylinder-Heads-ED5025-/400381204731?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d389458fb)
60cc chambers, so they won't drop your compression too much ...
Cheers,
Frank.
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EDELBROCK E street heads are ok but not if your chasing HP .
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Ok, so which are the best for a 289?
Who makes the best quality?
Just want a fun reliable mild street engine which goes well (possible 347 stroker later on) which sounds good. RELIABLE being the key word here!
165 AFRs are a great head for a quick street 302/289, 185 for a 347.
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EDELBROCK E street heads are ok but not if your chasing HP .
Stock replacements Glen I reckon, similar to gt40 heads.
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DID SOMEONE MENTION PROJUNK! :sick:
Quality Parts + Wise combination + Experienced assembler = Happy Camper
LUVHEv
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"E street heads" you will need to replace valves , springs, and rocker studs with something of reputable quality --and the warranty card says 5500 RPM - MAX!
Those components are on a par with procomp.
Good luck with that --and don't ask me how I know :toetapping:
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What about these heads?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AFR-Part-1402-SBF-CNC-165cc-Renegade-20-deg-Street-Head-Emission-Legal-58cc140-/170925841302?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27cbf95b96 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AFR-Part-1402-SBF-CNC-165cc-Renegade-20-deg-Street-Head-Emission-Legal-58cc140-/170925841302?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27cbf95b96)
The business?? :evilone:
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They are good heads and yet there are plenty other good options.
What you need to do before you buy any heads is work out..
1. What size engine is this going to be ? Because the same set of heads isn't going to work for a 289 and then change into a 347. It's not only port flow and valve size but also combustion chamber size.
Those AFR 165 heads will give a 289 around 9.2 :1 comp. Not ideal for a performance engine. It'll be hard to find great heads for a 289 as they just don't make many combustion chambers small enough to get the compression up high enough.
Bolt the same heads on a 347 and you have 11.1:1 compression. Vastly different.
2. You need to know what cam you are going to run as the valve events will have an effect on compression and therefore determine the combustion chamber size of the heads.
3. After knowing the cam then the diff gears/stall converter all must be matched.
4. The you need to match the ignition curve and carburettor etc.
There's lots to it. If you want it to go really well and do all the other stuff you expect like not ping and have vacuum, be driveable etc etc you have to do the homework.
Or, you can just get a set of heads someone says are the ducks guts,bolt 'em on and wonder why the car doesn't go well. Afterall they said they were great heads ;-)
Just my .02 worth.
Success is the combination of parts, not how good a single part is.
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^^ good post. I know you are right!
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When you build a 289, you need to make sure you fit flat pistons, from new only A & K codes had flat tops to get max. compression, but you still may need to face the heads to get the comp you want. AFR use 2 different exhuast valves to alter the chamber size. The valve heads are thicker for the 58cc head, chamber is actually the same. The overal comp will depend on deck height of the block, type of piston and overbore size ect. In real terms a set of 165 AFRs on 289 that is 30 over had the deck hieght checked and faced will getting up toward hi 9's 10:1 without taken anything of the heads, but the face on AFRs is quite thick, no trouble to take a cut off them. If you went to a 347 later 165 heads are not optimum, but they are not that bad either, they out flow simlar Edlebrocks that get bolted on a 347s all the time, and consider that they are way better than what a factory 351 windsor had from new, so it's still going go alright, just not as good as a set of 185's up high, having said we would not talking mega HP differeance here, in a street format. Likly about 20-30 hp in a street packages at around 6000rpm, depend a lot on the cam and rev range
I guess it comes down to what you want out of it. As long as you get the comp around 10 it will be fine, and may not need 98 fuel, due the alloy heads chamber design and the ability to get the heat away from the chamber better than the iron heads. Dynamic compression will depend on the cam. If you put them on a 347 later and want to drop the compression a bit you just change the exhaust valves. The exhaust flow is pretty much the same on 165/185. As is the intake at low lift. The 165's run out of flow at,a bit over 500Thou lift while the 185s keep flowing up to 600 thou, so this is something you need to consider when choosing a cam. no point running a cam with more then 550 lift if the head flow ends around here, it's only the duration that's working then.
The 185 use 2.02" inlet valve and bigger port to get the extra flow, the inlets are 100thou bigger then the 165 heads
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I've got Dart Pro 1 ally heads on my 347, they are 195cc, have been well ported and milled to 55cc Chambers, the engine made 480hp and 417ft/lb [torque] on the dyno, at the flywheel. A really good head at about $800.00 each. And the head work was $800.00, for the pair.
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Dart stuff is good kit, but I reckon they do better SBC stuff then SBF, non the less 480 in a pony is a very quick car, much quicker than any new Falcon or HSV holden. Enjoy! I've used Dart in a few chevs I like it. I reckon the best reasonably priced heads for windsors are AFR & trickflow.