Shelby drop.

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Author Topic: Shelby drop.  (Read 13473 times)

Offline AussiePhil

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Shelby drop.
« on: August 23, 2021, 07:19:00 pm »
Hey all,
I’m going to do the Shelby drop soon!
I got the dimensions for the template of the internet.
I made the template this afternoon.
You can’t believe how hard it is to get the holes exact, even though I’m a fitter and turner and have a mill plate and used centre drills! Two holes were 1/16” short of the 1”
The problem I had was centre popping all four holes, could have scribed the lines better!

I searched Shelby drop and found an old old post about wheel alignment settings.
Thanks to Shaunp I found.
1/8" toe in.
-0.5 deg camber.
min of +3deg caster, if it has PS give it as much caster as you get up to +5. More caster the more stable it is in a straight line.
Thanks for the details, is this still current thinking.
Cheers Phil.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 08:10:20 pm by AussiePhil »
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Two for one is good but four for two is better!

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Shelby drop
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2021, 07:28:58 pm »
Hey, this is my template!
It was a rusty old bent piece i had!
Cheers Phil
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Two for one is good but four for two is better!

Offline Clubman7

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Re: Shelby drop
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2021, 08:23:22 pm »

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Shelby drop
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2021, 01:51:52 am »
Hey, thanks Brett!
I did a bit of light reading, I did some reading some time ago and this article reminded me about the ball joint binding.
I’ll do something about that, may fit the wedge kit anyhow.
I’m always working on my car, but under Covid lockdown I’ve been really getting stuck into it.
Making and fitting engine coil covers, Making and fitting subframe connectors, lifting the mufflers into the body cut away better, fitted a tailshaft loop, modifying 12” AVO coil over dampers to 14” and adapting to fit larger diameter coil springs and soon to fit larger supercharger pulley to slow up the supercharger, it’s spinning to fast, to much torque (705Nm) for my Borg Warner WC T5 gearbox (not that it reduce it dramatically) and raising the engine rpm to 6000 from 5300, will also extend supercharger life.

Cheers Phil.
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Two for one is good but four for two is better!

Offline scollist

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Re: Shelby drop
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2021, 11:15:12 am »
Hi Phil.

I installed Moog balljoints upper ball joints on my 65 when I redid the front.  My understanding is that they are engineered to compensate for the binding that the Shelby drop may cause.  So might be worth looking at instead of using the wedge kit.

Cheers
Shane

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Shelby drop
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2021, 01:14:36 pm »
Hi Phil.

I installed Moog balljoints upper ball joints on my 65 when I redid the front.  My understanding is that they are engineered to compensate for the binding that the Shelby drop may cause.  So might be worth looking at instead of using the wedge kit.

Cheers
Shane

Hey, thanks Shane,
I’m in the middle of the first side, going ok at the moment, I’ll have a look if the ball joints are branded while I’m at it.
A lot of work has been done by the first Australian owner, Lovell springs, Koni shocks and new perches, I’d imagine new ball joints as well!
I thought I read somewhere that 67 on didn’t have this problem, but it may have been something else!
I borrowed my sons spring compressors but they are a bit long and bulky, anyone buying some need to get short slim ones.
I’ll refit the bump stop plate and do the movement test without the spring later and I’ll probably make a set of wedges anyhow! I have a milling machine! I can’t afford to drop much height either, I’ll make a 1/4” shim for on top of the spring insulator or buy a fatter spring insulator.
Cheers Phil.
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Two for one is good but four for two is better!

Offline Megzee67

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Re: Shelby drop
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2021, 02:24:47 pm »
Hi Phil,
I came across these values a few years ago for the 67 Shelby Drop alignment set up.
1. No more than .25 degrees between drivers and passengers side.
2. +2.0 to + 3.5 degrees Caster
3. -.5 to 0 degrees Camber [ No negative camber ] There is no problem having slight variation from drivers & passengers side to account for road surface camber.

When I was doing my Shelby drop, I also fabricated and installed Shock tower gussets, roller spring perches, Passenger side torque box along with the chassis rail connectors.

As a side note, following the blasting of my engine bay, it was interesting to find 4 or 5 hairline [ 1 fairly severe] cracks of both shock towers due to twisting motion over the years.


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They listen with the intent to reply.

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Shelby drop
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2021, 06:09:24 pm »
Hey Michael,
How are you doing, crazy here in Bathurst!
Thanks for the info, I have stripped back the engine bay a few years ago and didn’t find anything unusual.
The car is in pretty good condition.
Cheers Phil.
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Two for one is good but four for two is better!

Offline Megzee67

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Re: Shelby drop
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2021, 07:16:51 pm »
Hi Phil,
All good thanks, but "crazy" with a capital "C" here in Vietnam.....I have been trying to get back to Aus for several months now..... :flag:

Yep, I am sure your lovely 68 is in pristine condition mate.....I just mentioned the shock tower issues for the benefit of forum readers.....probably just one of a thousand issues that can be hidden behind paint....

Also read on another thread you were installing chassis rail connectors......looking forward to your updates and piccies.....seems like you are using your shed time productively mate... :thumb:

Cheers
Michael
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Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Shelby drop - binding upper control arm
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2021, 03:37:45 pm »
Hey all,
I removed my sway bar this morning and tested the suspension movement for binding and it binds a lot before the bump stops! But it’s not the ball joints only, it’s the control arms as well. Binding up against the frame, in the original position the control arms hit the bump stop, but only just, the control arm is very close the the frame as well, and there appears to be witness marks that under some bumps the control arms have hit the frame.
There’s no part numbers stamped on the control arm but there is distinct brand marks on them.
I’m off now to remove the control arms to inspect further and get some good photos.
It won’t be a problem, I’ll just relieve the area on the control arms binding.
Cheers Phil.

Update;
That’s one problem solved, I cut 1/4” off the top lip and a bit of the corner, now the upper control arm hits the bump stop.
Cheers Phil.

« Last Edit: August 25, 2021, 07:44:58 pm by AussiePhil »
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Two for one is good but four for two is better!

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Shelby drop - Binding upper control arm!
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2021, 07:37:19 pm »
Hey all,
This is my upper control arm that was causing my binding problem, the only identifying markings are the three marks at the top.
Does anyone know this brand.
Anyhow I'll refit the ball joints tomorrow and check if they bind, I assume they will!
If so I'll make up some wedges.
Cheers Phil.
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Two for one is good but four for two is better!

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Shelby drop - Binding upper control arm!
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2021, 08:53:33 pm »
Hey all,
Did a bit more time reading on American forums about the Shelby Arning drop, in Australia we talk mainly about the 1" drop, but the Americans really get stuck into it 1 5/8" even a 2" drop, this would necessitate a ball joint wedge for sure to stop binding and realigning the ball joint to sit in the middle of its socket.
Ridetech make a 6° ball joint wedge kit, not sure what amount of drop these would suit.
I spent some time today making and fitting ball joint wedges that turned out to be 5° for that reason and it will also make up some of the  height lost doing the drop.
As it is I'm very happy with th results,  I did a travel test and hits the bump beautifully!
Cheers Phil.
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Two for one is good but four for two is better!

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Shelby drop
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2021, 07:50:09 pm »
Hi Phil,
I came across these values a few years ago for the 67 Shelby Drop alignment set up.
1. No more than .25 degrees between drivers and passengers side.
2. +2.0 to + 3.5 degrees Caster
3. -.5 to 0 degrees Camber [ No negative camber ] There is no problem having slight variation from drivers & passengers side to account for road surface camber.

When I was doing my Shelby drop, I also fabricated and installed Shock tower gussets, roller spring perches, Passenger side torque box along with the chassis rail connectors.

As a side note, following the blasting of my engine bay, it was interesting to find 4 or 5 hairline [ 1 fairly severe] cracks of both shock towers due to twisting motion over the years.

Hey Michael,
I’ve completed the drop and really happy with it. I’ve stripped and repainting under the wheel arches and waiting for a welder to weld the subframe connectors in so I may as well do the gussets, I wasn’t fussed about doing them but under the current lockdown conditions the car won’t be moving for a while.
Cheers Phil.
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Two for one is good but four for two is better!

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Shelby drop.
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2021, 05:36:14 am »
Hey all,
I found this YouTube video showing the effect of the Shelby / Arning drop!
It’s gives a very good visual explanation!
I have 8” x 18” wheels and 235 tyres and has in the past rubbed the guards under descent bumps.
Hopefully the drop I’ve just completed will help.
https://youtu.be/zSwjMLA7EDo
Cheers Phil
« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 08:11:33 pm by AussiePhil »
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Two for one is good but four for two is better!

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Shelby drop.
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2021, 07:15:13 pm »
Hey all,
I’ve completed my Shelby / Arning 1” drop and shock tower gussets, all went well.
I haven’t been able to drop the car to the ground yet, I’ve got it jacked up high waiting for a better welder than me to mig weld in the subframe connectors.
But I’ve noticed it’s got a lot of toe in! Is this what you found when you did yours!
And going back over the photos I’ve taken during the work I’ve noticed the control arms shafts don’t seem to be centred in the control arms, are they supposed centred or slightly offset for caster (you’d think not)!
I’ll investigate, measure further tomorrow!
Cheers Phil.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 08:11:15 pm by AussiePhil »
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Two for one is good but four for two is better!

Offline Megzee67

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Re: Shelby drop.
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2021, 08:31:14 pm »
Hi Phil
The apparent toe in will settle once you get it back on the ground.....gravity may be making it seem severe..
Drop it back on ground, drive it around the block doing full lock to lock steering movements then get the alignment done.
Keep a close eye on steerage and directive feeling over the first month..
Cheers mate
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Offline Megzee67

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Re: Shelby drop.
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2021, 08:41:25 pm »
Should have also mentioned that rim & tyre sizes and subsequent altered geometry will add to your sea trials/ commissioning/ trials....
Bugger me...i sound like a typical Marine Engineer now
Time for another rum .....aye
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They listen with the intent to reply.

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Shelby drop.
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2021, 08:58:43 pm »
Hey Michael,
I’ll do that when I get a chance, cheers.
I’m going to check the control arm shafts are centred tomorrow, one side seems to out of centre backwards, the other side forward. Just going by photos, I may be imagining it!
So to get the right caster each side with the caster rods one wheel would be front of the other, that can’t be good?
But I may be imagining it!
No chance of getting a wheel alignment, we’re going to have our lock down extended in the next few days, 30 covid cases in Bathurst at the moment. Tyre companies doing punctures only!
I’ll be lucky if my welder can make it this week. I could weld it myself but mig would be better. I bought a mig welder this week, but from W.A. so long haul across Aus! I haven’t mig welded for long time!
Any sign of you coming home soon! I’d love to see you able to do something with your car!

UPDATE; Panicked about nothing! Checked centre of the control arms this morning with calipers, as close to centre as you could get them!
Ha Ha Ha, never rely on photos, must have just been at the angle of the photo that they looked out!

Cheers Phil.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 09:01:50 am by AussiePhil »
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Two for one is good but four for two is better!

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Shelby drop.
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2021, 09:03:33 pm »
Ahoy Matey!
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Two for one is good but four for two is better!

Offline Megzee67

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Re: Shelby drop.
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2021, 12:20:12 pm »
Good news Phil..
Glad it worked out with no dramas....always a good feeling seeing projects work out..
Between the Vietnamese lockdown regime and the Australian lockout rules getting home is not possible for a while...but my stang is safely stowed in Brizzy ready for the final 150 hours....so close...yet so far..
Stay safe Phil..


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Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Shelby drop.
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2021, 11:45:16 am »
Hey all,
Job finished and car back on the ground, unfortunately I didn’t measure the height before I started, the Shelby drop was a spur of the moment thing while I was doing subframe connectors and exhaust work.
I reckon it’s 20mm lower, my exhaust used to be legal but now it’s only 80mm. It looks great down low but it wouldn’t travel to well.
I’ll probably add a longer spring insulator to lift it back up a bit.
Cheers Phil.
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Two for one is good but four for two is better!

Offline ag71

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Re: Shelby drop.
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2021, 02:37:12 pm »
Hi Phil I'd be interested to see some pics if you have time.
Cheers,

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Shelby drop.
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2021, 07:40:54 pm »
Ball joint wedges to correct ball and socket angle.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2021, 07:42:35 pm by AussiePhil »
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Two for one is good but four for two is better!

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Shelby drop.
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2021, 12:00:28 am »
Hi Phil I'd be interested to see some pics if you have time.
Cheers,
Anyone interested in more photos Email me at phildrury59@gmail.com
I have trouble making the photos small enough for the forum to take them!
Cheers Phil.
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Two for one is good but four for two is better!

Offline Rayatswan

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Re: Shelby drop.
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2021, 07:05:15 am »
Those wedges look great Phil, any photos of your installed subframe connectors?