289W & BTR 4 speed

[1965muzzy]

Need some info please. Can a BTR 4 Speed from a V8 Falcon bolt up to a 289W? I know this can be done with a 302W as there is a document from BTR Install and Wiring - Hot Rod Handbooks that discusses the transmission module & a third party module from ShiftKits. More interested in the fundimental bolting up at this point.  Any info would be appreciated. Cheers

[barnett468]

us made 289's and 302's have the same bolt pattern.

[GEOFF289]

Unless its a very early 289

[peter9231]

Hi,
Yes it will bolt up but starter motor will be on the opposite side and lower than where it is now.
It all fits ok
You will need to mod the crossmember though.
This is one out of an XD falcon.

[1965muzzy]

Thanks Guys.

Left a little bit of info out. I have a 65 Mustang with an existing 289W with a Cruisomatic. The 289 & transmission are getting tired so this would be the time to do a modification such as this.

Peter, the XD cross member? The 4 speed BTR was not in XD's. Is it that the XD does fit the BTR 4 speed & the 65 Mustang?

Also, with the starter down lower & on the opposite site to my current 289w / Auto, will the headers need to be modified?

Or would it be better to use a 4R70W transmission taking into account the starter will be on the same side as the 289 / Auto I have at the moment.

Down side is that the 4R70W is a bit more exy, but the counter is that there is no need to modify headers & also knowing this transmission swap has been done is an advantage.

Cheers Darren

[Husky350]

Hands down go the 4r70w if you can handle the cost difference. Aftermarket support is great, including the transmission controller which allows you to adjust everything electronic. Again, something there is no support for with the BTR.

[barnett468]

can't you just find a simple aod?

if you are just cruising it there is no need for an expensive exotic computer controlled trans or any significant upside.

[Husky350]

Problem is here a simple AOD ends up costing about $600+ and probably needs a rebuild anyway. Unless you rebuild them yourself, the cost of the rebuild is pretty high also due to the lack of local support for the transmission.
It will still end up cheaper though than a 4r70w, especially if you cant find a 4r70w locally.

A 4r70w will future proof yourself if you want to really increase power later on. Don't be like me and end up spending double the amount because I have to do things twice as I thought "i'll be happy with a cruiser" ha ha...if you have any inkling of a high power motor later on, do it right the first time.

[barnett468]

In the us any decent trans will cost a minimum of $2,000.00 usd as well and many are around $3500.00 usd and this is without mounting parts or installation.

Here's one of our cheapest options.

http://www.bmracing.com/products/114501-bm-street-and-strip-automatic-transmission-1980-to-1993-ford-mustang-with-aod-transmission/

[1965muzzy]

Thanks Husky65.

Hi barnett468. I installed an AOD in my 65 XP 302W Coupe. The TV cable kept going out of calibration & the support in Australia for the AOD is almost non-existent. I could not find any transmission service centre that could do the job &, more importantly, guarantee their work as they don't see many, if any, as they were not installed in any Australian cars. And if the TV cable goes out of sync, & it does not take much, the damage to the AOD is usually sustancial. Detonate an AOD just once & there goes the cost savings. And that's what happened to mine. In the end, my AOD cost me around $4.5-5K with the shotenning of the tailshaft, new cross member & diff ratio change & installation. The rebuild costs were $1,200 so it sat in my garage for 2 years under cover, out of sight, out of mind until I sold it for $100. Almost cried.

So the advantage of the 4r70w is no TV cable, its adjustability & service as I know a few places that service these. They are around $2.5-3K plus $900 for the control unit & the costs shown above.

So the cost benefits are not all that different. If I had not already had my experience with the AOD then I would go that but once bitten, never again.

So important to me is the 4r70w bellhousing / 289W bolt hole arrangement. GEOFF289 did mention they are the same but not the early 289W. What constitutes an early 289W. The rest is cost related & I know its going to be around $5-5.5K.

Cheers Darren

[GEOFF289]

So important to me is the 4r70w bellhousing / 289W bolt hole arrangement. GEOFF289 did mention they are the same but not the early 289W. What constitutes an early 289W. The rest is cost related & I know its going to be around $5-5.5K.

Cheers Darren

Has to a very early 289 to have the 5 bolt bellhousing bolt pattern the 260's had. The 6 bolts commenced in August '64.

[barnett468]

the 64.5 engines had a 5 bolt bell housing

the cable going out of adjustment was not the trannys fault. there are a zillion of those trannies with the cable that don't go out of adjustment and i have had several. i think stephenslr posted the correct bracket for the cable a while back.

[Dwayne]

There's also the gear vendors units worth considering.

[1965muzzy]

Thanks Gents.

Thanks Barnett. Yes, you are correct, it's not the trannies fault but it is an inherent & well known issue with the AOD. Believe me, I did all all the research before I bought an AOD & knew about the TV cable & the correct bracketing as well as the upgrade to the valve body & kevlar bands. What I did not know was that there was a lack of people that knew how to service an AOD.

So the AOD is not on my list for consideration.

I considered the Gear Vendors option but again decided against it.

Cheers Darren

[barnett468]

Thanks Barnett. Yes, you are correct, it's not the trannies fault but it is an inherent & well known issue with the AOD.

No it is NOT an inherent problem. The use of the wrong cable bracket or improper installation of the cable by inexperienced people etc is the problem. It's that simple.

[lukep6470]

There is more to change to go to a 4R70W than an AOD.  I think a BTR would be the cheapest option and handled up to 250KW in the pursuit.  I currently have an AOD and if I change to a 4R70W the only thing I can keep is the flexplate.  Also there isn't an aftermarket crossmember for a 4R70W that I am aware of.

An AODE might be worth looking into but I haven't seen any in Australia.

[1965muzzy]

Thanks for the input gents.

Thanks Barnett468. I understand your comments but lets agree to disagree on the AOD as an option in this instance.

Thanks Luke. Lower down in this thread, Peter9231 mentioned an XD Falcon cross member for the 4R70W. Confirmation that this works would be good. I had not mentioned that I had a 65 Mustang at the time Peter9231 posted his comment.

What I would really like to find is someone who has done the 302W or 289W / BTR transmission installation in a 65-66 Mustang. Not sure how many have gone down this road. Yes, it may be be a less expensive installation but the starter motor location on the opposite side (will there be room for this in a 65 Mustang engine bay) & the knock on affects such as  headers clash & longer starter motor leads, are things that need to be thought through. Peter 9231 did say the BTR would fit but it would be good to see it done if possible.

Cheers Darren

[peter9231]

Hello,
I have a 5.0 efi with the btr trans in mine.
66 convertible.
It did have the old ram assist power steer but I have changed it to a Borgeson box.
It all fits ok
I only have the standard exhaust manifolds as I am after drivability not HP (got something else for that)
Cant see that extractors wouldn't fit.
Don't really have any good photos of underneath sorry.

[peter9231]

Couple more pics.

[1965muzzy]

Thanks Peter.

Well done. That is one helleva piece of technical engineering to get that installation to work. The knock-on effects would have been considerable. Things that you would never of thought of having to be worked through. I put a 302W & C4 into a 65 XP Coupe & that had me scratching my head on many occasions but your install would have made me pull my hair out.

OK, just so that I understand this right, please confirm the following. So the starter motor for the BTR on the opposite side does not clash with either the 289W headers (I cannot see the exhaust headers in your photos) & the standard power steering. I also would like to use a 4-speed B&M Shifters like the Quicksilver, Mega or Hammer.

I am also looking at the Borgeson power steering system. Any big issues you came across? Was it an easy install?
There are Youtube videos on how this done but it would be good to hear from someone who has done this.

Cheers Darren

[peter9231]

Darren,
The starter is no issue to the original ram assist power steer or the Borgeson.
I assume the headers would be OK but sure you could work around any issues.
The Borgeson install is fairly easy but best of all it enabled me to shorten the steering column a few inches.
What a difference it is to get the steering wheel closer to the dash where it should be.
You are correct there were a few knock on issues but all up took me 6 weeks of nights and weekends.
It really wasn't that hard just time consuming.
I must admit it was a relief when I turned the key for the first time and it sat there idling nicely.
Peter.