Mustang Owners Club Australia Forum
Technical & General Discussion Area => Tech Torque Pre 1973 => Topic started by: MILD67 on February 21, 2009, 01:29:53 pm
-
today i got a little bored so i decided to start pulling apart my motor incar to replace my heads and put in larger cam.
iv brought cam, lifters, pushrods, gaskets, coolant, oil, filter, engine assembly lube, timing kit and headbolts.
anything more i should need?
when i disconnect the auto lines from radiator do i just leave them hanging with something covering them to stop fluid pouring out?
by the way all keep a eye on this thread as im sure ill have more questions along the way.
cheers rob
:(:(:(
-
What engine? What heads?
Who's fitting the cam? Do you have a degree wheel, pointer and magnetic base depth guage (can't remember correct name :2)
is there flexi hose from the pipes to the rad/cooler? Run 1 hose from pipe to tipe, the other hose from cooler/rad inlet to outlet. if it is pipe all the way, find some heater hose that slides tightly over the threads, and join them that way.
Otherwise, just tie them up as high as you can, and put a drain tin under, and remember to top up the auto before you finish.
Are you running an iron manifold? Have you got a mate to help lift the iron manifold, and heads, on and off? Espaciall putting the new stuff on, as you don't want the gaskets moving around, and even alloys get heavy when your reaching across an engine bay....
-
Would it be called a Dial Indicator?
Swapping a cam in these engines is dead easy.
You will enjoy/benefit from the experience. :(
-
its just a warm 302, im putting some ported iron heads with roller rockers and a comp cam grind #xe262h.
i have edelbrock performer manifold and 600cfm carby with extractors and twin 3inch system.
i have a degree wheel, and a dial indicator but its metric so ill have to convert.
iv removed the water pump, timing cover, valve covers and balancer.
ill prob remove heads 2moro as im :2 jd now.
thats a good idea about the heater hose thanks blkpny, if your close your more than welcome to give a hand (carrum downs).
should i fit the new heads b4 i dial in the cam or b4?
;{
-
:( good on you Josh give it a go wish i was as game, let us know how you go with it
daponi :(
-
good on you Josh give it a go wish i was as game, let us know how you go with it
ITS ROB!:*
can anyone please tell me if its easier to dial the cam b4 or after the heads go on?
-
Sorry, just got home from the Jazz thingo at the Murdoch Farm in Langwarrin.
If you have the heads off, it's easier, as you put the "Dial Indicator" (Thanks 2223!!) on the deck, and the tip on the piston.
If the heads are on, you need to use an old pushrod or similar thru the spark plug hole, and is less accurate.
Twin 3" with a 302??? WOW! I jst put twin 3" on mine, and it's like an open piped drag car. I'm lucky it is a tuff motor, or is would sound pox.
-
it came with the car (exhaust), its not loud but it burbles a little when backing off.
-
well i took the heads of and removed the camshaft today.
now i just have to wait for the parts to arrive.
time to get back on the jack i think!
-
I'll be kean to see how it goes, as this is similar to what I have except with heaps of compression, and a strong bottom end.
Does it have dished pistons or just cut outs for the valves?
-
just cut out for the valves.
i was thinking of doing bottom end aswell but i just want this one to last till i get the funds for a 347 ;2
but i can never help myself like i wasnt going to touch this motor and go straight to 347. oh well.
-
If its done some miles don't clean the carbon of the piston tops close to the edge, leave about 8mm of carbon. Also if it a bit tired and your new heads more compression you may blow the rings out of it. Just be prepared. Remember that V8 supa cars run 302s, you can get them screeming if you want.
-
what should i use to clean the carbon?
all parts are now ready, so ill clean up all parts and do some assembly on the weekend.
and then ill have to get a radiator.;]
-
Just scrape it off and blow it off with air. Wipe some grease around the edges of the piston you are cleaning, so the carbon gets trapped and doesn't end up down the side of the piston. Once you crank it down the bore just wipe the grease and carbon away.
-
ok, tonight i just cleaned up all the bits to go back on, then got bored and installed the cam, i tried to dial it in but cam out 2 degrees out so i advanced it 2 degrees and ill have to check it again tommorrow to make sure all ok.
-
Advanced will will give more low torque, retarded will push up the Rev band.
-
hey mild 67
what size cam and what brand are u fitting,
i am also thinking doing a cam swap, for my 289 all i have at the moment is intake carb and exhaust, but i like it to idle with a bit of a lumpy sound, i know i should pull the motor out and do it right but i am very impatient person, it has taken me 2 years
to get the car where it is today......
any suggestions from forum members
tom..............
-
Easiest bolt on at this point would be a good set of heads. Of course a bigger cam will help you get the most out of them.
Good thing about heads is that the average handy guy could probably fit them in a day.
Cam is a bit trickier - at least for me.
I guess a good target would be to get the same kinda HP numbers Shelby was getting for a GT350 with the HI-PO 289 - somewhere around 300-310 I think.
Cheers,
Frank.
-
hi a link to the cam as follows
http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/CamDetails.aspx?csid=799&sb=1
i didnt pull motor out just heads off and cam, as it was recoed just before i brought it and im prob going to 347 strocker later when funds allow and this one dies a little.
hopefully the heads on tonight and inlet, dizzy and maybe overheads.
and finish off 2moro night if the radiator turns up 2moro.
-
That cam should make some good Mumbo!
-
Make sure you run it in on some penrite 30 and plenty of cam lube
-
Make sure you don't use the cam lube on the bearing journals, only on the lobes and dissy drive gear. Use oil on the journals.
-
ok radiator arrived today so fingers crossed she'll be running this weekend
:a:a
-
almost done, just have to learn to adjust roller rockers and put in oil additive and water.
;2
-
Dont forget your 20 min cam break in,not below 2000rpm's. :(
-
anyone want to offer there services to help adjust rockers? im having trouble.
:_:_:_:_:_:_:_:_:_:_:_:_:_:_:_:_:_:_:_:_:_:_:_:_:_:_:_:_:_:_:_
-
The question is do you have the proper tool?
Back off the nut, adjust the bit in the middle (mine where an allen key arrangement) untill you have zero clearance and then tighten the nut.
Make sure the cam is on the back of lobe to ensure the valve is completely closed.
-
ill give it another go and see.
-
Have a read of this, might be of assistance.
Rocker adjustment (http://sbftech.com/index.php?topic=317.0)
Gary
-
thanks gary, i think iv done it right.
all finished and filled the water and done a pressure test and found a leak from the inlet, so off it came, cleaned it up and fitted new gaskets only too test again anf find another leak from inlet :_:_:_;];].
so off to get new gaskets 2moro and prey no more leaks, the manifold and heads are all straight by my steel rule.
so for now its back to :2 and sleep on it.
-
I never use manifold gaskets, as they are always prone to leaking.
I use Permatex Blue silastic around the ports, and between them, and around the water jacket, and across the valley. Just make sure 2 people drop the manifold down squarely.
-
thanks blkpny, ill give that a go today and let you know how i go
-
how long before i put water in if it says dries in 1 hour and cures in 24?
-
I the port gaskets but not the front and rear oil gaskets. If the heads have been faced heavily the manifold won't line up with the heads, so just use Blue Max on the ends so the manifold can sit where it wants to. Put blue max around the water ports on the inlet gaskets an it will be fine.
-
all done and ran in YAY! :a:a
but the rollers are still noisey, do i have to adjust when hot or cold?
its all a learning curve for me
-
An how does it go?
-
it has a nice lumpy idle, have not driven until i get the lifters quiet.
and the auto started to leak at the dipstick, so ill have to fix that as well.
-
Lifters should be done cold (was it a solid?) with feeler guage.
-
hydrolic cam and lifters
-
2 ways to do it, with the valve close adjust them till there is no slack in the push rod but you can turn it, second way and most effective is once the cam is bedded, get an old rocker cover,cut the top out and instal it. Run the engine tighten one rocker at a time back them off till they rattle, then down till it misses, then back them off till the cylinder comes back and then a bit more.
-
ok, done rockers again and still a little noisey, never had em before so i dont know how noisey they should be.
serviced the auto and now gotta cook dinner for the children as the missus is at work making money, so ill go for a drive after dinner.
-
went for a little drive and the rockers are to noisey, if i cant fix it i think ill take it somewhere to get done, anyone know of somewhere near frankston?
i was told to try pitlane in rosella st frankston, anyone tried them?
-
CVE Performance in Carrum Downs can do it, Call Paul 0447 351 460
He is in McKormicks RD
www.CVEPerformance.com
-
Mild 67 like I said with the engine running, tighten them one at a time till it misses then back them off till the cylinder comes on and then a bit more.
-
thanks, i found out why they got noiser, two studs broke off causing number 3 inlet and exhaust rockers came off. :_
what can cause this? did i do them to tight?
and what are my rockers called? they are in pairs that bolt onto a stud.
are they stud, pedistal or whatever?
-
where on mckormicks rd? i thought thats all residential?
-
Are they screw in studs? if they are just replace them. It they are press you'll have get them out then tap for screw in's.
-
Did it go ok till it broke the studs. I'm thinking you may have the wrong length push rods.
-
im not to sure, i think they are pressed in, as a screw in one would have a spanner head on the base?
-
You really should have screw ins and guide plates for rollers, some times the rocker are too deep and hit the stud pedastal. I suspect this is your issue. You'll probably need to pull the ehads off and have them fitted with screw ins + push rod guide plates. depending on what rockers you have. You can buy Comp cams magnums that will run with out guide plates, and you could just replcae the 2 studs in place.
-
ok, here we go, i went around to see paul at cve perfomance, and showed him my broken pieces and he said its from the wrong size pushrods,
so, ill be removing the heads and taking to him to be machined and fitted with screw in studs, ill get the heads back, refit and flatbed it to him to see what size pushrods and adjust the rockers.
should be going next week or 2.
-
Thought that may be the case. you need to make sure you have the correct lenght rods so the angle of the rockers is correct and the wipe the stem correctly.
-
oh well live and learn i say, only new to this and ill try anything
-
more updates, turns out they where right lengh pushrods :(
but i had tightened up the rockers to much :*
so paul is fixing them and ill bolt them back on and he'll come around and set them up for me.
-
cool
-
ok, iv got the heads back and will fit again on weekend and then i have to call paul and he'll come around and do the rockers and check pushrods
-
as i thought i need shorter pushrods, so have to wait till tuesday to start it up again.
-
its now tuesday but paul cant come around as he said his missus is dragging him to a taylor swift concert. (i think he's dragging her along:w)
so it should be tommorrow night
-
:a:a:a:a:a
all done, now just got to wait for it to cool down and check adjustment, thanks to stef (blkpny) and paul cve performance for there help.
it goes a lot better but now i need some bigger headers to replace the small pipe standard shorties.
-
Glad he could help :f
-
Have you driven it? what's it like?
-
it goes a lot better but need new pipes to make the most of it:(
-
just a update, it runs a lot better, more power in higher revs and a little better take off, im happy with it atm, new pacemakers coming soon and then start collecting parts for a 347
-
Would you reccomend this upgrade? I have a 289 i am thinking of putting on 302 heads new cam roller rockers and cleaning up the ports on the the new heads. May even pull and and do the bottom end new rods pistons etc i have been told roughy 2-3k if i do myself . Any thoughts opinions thoughts???
-
i think it'll be worth it, but depends on carby, headers and stuff
-
Originally posted by fatso1
Would you reccomend this upgrade? I have a 289 i am thinking of putting on 302 heads new cam roller rockers and cleaning up the ports on the the new heads. May even pull and and do the bottom end new rods pistons etc i have been told roughy 2-3k if i do myself . Any thoughts opinions thoughts???
Why would you use 302 heads? 289 heads prior to may 66 have built in puch rod giudes. Late 302 heads have lower compression and valve/ port size is the same really etc for really early, 289 heads or late heads light GT40 etc. 351 heads have bigger valves but are lower compression when used on a 289. Also standard rods are fine, just reisze them and fit some arp bolts.
-
Originally posted by shaunp
Originally posted by fatso1
Would you reccomend this upgrade? I have a 289 i am thinking of putting on 302 heads new cam roller rockers and cleaning up the ports on the the new heads. May even pull and and do the bottom end new rods pistons etc i have been told roughy 2-3k if i do myself . Any thoughts opinions thoughts???
Why would you use 302 heads? 289 heads prior to may 66 have built in puch rod giudes. Late 302 heads have lower compression and valve/ port size is the same really etc for really early, 289 heads or late heads light GT40 etc. 351 heads have bigger valves but are lower compression when used on a 289. Also standard rods are fine, just reisze them and fit some arp bolts.
If you do go down this path, dont use 69 heads as they have are small volume and may lead to pinging.