Mustang Owners Club Australia Forum

Technical & General Discussion Area => Tech Torque Pre 1973 => Topic started by: Aussie-67 on January 09, 2022, 11:28:53 am

Title: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: Aussie-67 on January 09, 2022, 11:28:53 am
Anyone here done the Shelby UCA drop?

Is it really as simple as drilling the holes and repositioning the UCA?
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: Megzee67 on January 09, 2022, 01:31:46 pm
G'day Aussie
It is a pretty straight forward job but "simple" may not be the correct word.
It is also a good time to do a front end check for ball joints etc.
The steering geometry changes so you will need an alignment as well.
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: Aussie-67 on January 09, 2022, 01:40:12 pm
Thanks mate.  I'm upgrading to the opentracker roller arms, perches etc.  So thought I would try the drop at the same time.  Just wanted to check it was as simple as it sounded.
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: Megzee67 on January 09, 2022, 02:09:34 pm
Great stuff Aussie...
Opentracker is top quality gear...
Combined with the shelby drop you will certainly feel the difference.
Quick tip...when you have your front end disassembled give the shock towers a thorough inspection.
I found a few hairline stress cracks on mine that needed prep and welding....
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: Aussie-67 on January 09, 2022, 02:28:35 pm
Will do.  Thanks for the tip.

Tony
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: AussiePhil on January 10, 2022, 05:33:56 pm
Hey Aussie,
I’ve just completed the Shelby Arning drop.
I had trouble with the upper control arms binding at the top of the stroke, I needed to remove some metal from the inside of the UCA.
I fitted negative chamber wedges as well.
Search Shelby drop and it’s goes in-depth with photos.
Cheers Phil.
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: Aussie-67 on January 10, 2022, 08:16:58 pm
Hey Phil

Binding before or after the drop?  So you took some metal off the arm?  What arm are you using? Standard?
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: AussiePhil on January 12, 2022, 05:02:04 am
Hey Aussie,
Standard upper control arms!
Lots of information!
Shelby drop also lowers your front end, does that suit you, if not check out my coil spacers to obtain your desired road height, don’t buy different springs, you will never get your required road height, buying new springs are hit or miss.
For example if you want to lower your car 1” with the UCA overhang it would lower it considerably more than 1”.
Watch out that your ball joints don’t bind with the different angle of the UCM.
Go to restomod section on 06 October 2021, its all there!
Cheers Phil.
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: Aussie-67 on January 12, 2022, 08:53:24 am
Ok thanks Phil
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: 65 Fastback on January 31, 2022, 06:55:03 pm
Aussie,
I did the drop in my carport in a couple of hours but I had a template that I bolted onto the existing holes leaving the exact locations to drive the news holes.
Tony
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: Aussie-67 on January 31, 2022, 08:10:15 pm
Thanks Tony.  I have the template as well. 

 Just waiting on parts now.  All new suspension going in.
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: ag71 on May 20, 2022, 04:19:20 pm
Hi all I have been doing some reading on doing the Shelby drop and am interested in doing it on mine as to add to the driveability, however I  dont think I would be confident enough to do it myself can anyone recommend a shop in Sydney who could do it for me and possibly a rough price estimate ?
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: Dwayne on May 21, 2022, 08:09:37 am
Hi all I have been doing some reading on doing the Shelby drop and am interested in doing it on mine as to add to the driveability, however I  dont think I would be confident enough to do it myself can anyone recommend a shop in Sydney who could do it for me and possibly a rough price estimate ?

Big Al's Mustangs
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: ag71 on May 21, 2022, 10:14:33 am
thankyou for the heads up,
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: jiffy on May 21, 2022, 07:46:16 pm
Yup, Big Al’s Muscle Cars.

I did the Shelby drop on my ‘69 and tested it with the springs out and the balljoints were binding at the very top of the travel - I had to put in a wedge kit to correct it - especially annoying as I’d had the balljoints riveted in just like they were originally.
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: AussiePhil on May 23, 2022, 02:26:30 pm
Hey ag,
I completed the Shelby (Klaus Arning) drop six months ago.
I’m not sure there is any noticeable benefit, it’s really hard to tell. If you drive your car hard or race your car, yes it may.
Others may disagree, If you can’t complete the job yourself I wouldn’t pay a lot of hard earned to have it done.
One benefit the Shelby drop does if that suits you is it does lower the front of the car around 5/8” without buying new springs or cutting the springs. My car was at the correct road height so I needed to a machine and add 7/16” spring spacers to correct the required road height. I also had trouble with the UCA binding at the top of its travel (a simple job to fix with a burr grinder) and I also machined and fitted negative angle ball joint wedges. (I also increased the 5/16” bolts to 3/8” because if the slightly longer bolts)
All of this may add to the cost of the job.
I have 8” rims on the front and the geometry of lowering of the UCA and a good amount of camber may have slightly helped the tyres scrapping as bad.
I certainly don’t want to take a job off Big Al but these things need to be considered.
If you do drive your car hard, have a modified engine or your car body isn’t as good as it used to be you really also need to add subframe connectors as well.
I’ve attached Dazecars which is a great read.

https://dazecars.com/dazed/suspension101.html#19

Cheers Phil.
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: ag71 on May 23, 2022, 04:37:15 pm
Hi Phil thanks heaps for your input upon reading this I think I may give it a miss as my car is really a cruiser it doesn't get hammered well maybe sometimes but for the costs involved it doesn't seem like it will make a massive driving difference to me and my car is already lowered abit so dropping it a fraction more may cause other dramas maybe tyres rubbing or the like, again really appreciate your input. :thumb:
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: AussiePhil on May 25, 2022, 06:28:03 am
Hey Ag,
Your welcome.
You haven’t mentioned the modifications you’ve already done.
You may benefit by a bigger sway bar and shock tower bracing.
Both these jobs are easy to do yourself.
How did you find Dazecars suspension 101, it’s very interesting reading.
Cheers Phil.
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: 289 vert on May 25, 2022, 08:11:50 am
If you relocate the spring perches 1", it'll give you a better motion ratio, and give you back most of the height you lost to the drop.
It'll also increase spring rate, but roller perches will negate that.
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: ag71 on May 26, 2022, 05:02:29 pm
Phil the previous owner had fitted an updated larger sway bay and front KYB shocks and it sits lower, I think most of the other suspension parts are still stock, I have fitted the shock tower brace.
I agree it was a good read and interesting.
For the moment I think I will leave it as is and look at other things to spend my money on, I want to get some body work done.

cheers,
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: AussiePhil on May 26, 2022, 05:14:35 pm
Hey ag,
Sounds good, Hope you’re happy with your Mustang.
Cheers Phil.
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: AussiePhil on May 26, 2022, 08:24:12 pm
Hey all,
Roller spring perches are a great idea (I do have them) and are far better than vulcanised rubber perches.
But you do need to maintain them, regularly greased! P.S I NEED TO REMOVE THIS, CHEERS PHIL
Bearings versus Bushes:
The load on a bearing is only carried by the area were the balls or needles contact the races which is a very small area were with bushes the contact area is much greater. So the the bush material is very important, noise and wear.
Roller Perch Bearings are not going to rotate enough to keep the balls or needles moved around in them far enough and will start to brinell (Pit in the contact area). Motorcycle rear mono shocks needle bearings suffer the same fate, some have no grease points and dry out fast.
The bushings will also need lubrication, but some of the bronze materials are self lubricating, it all depends on the grade they use.
Bronze bushings can also be "Plugged" with graphite, or spiral cut grooves filled to supply lubrication.

Super pro do a poly Spring saddle.

https://superpro.com.au/find/superpro-suspension-parts-and-poly-bushings-for-ford-usa-mustang-1965-1973-coupe-/cid-999500305

Cheers Phil.
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: seany-boy on June 06, 2022, 11:05:21 am
Hey Phil,

I thought the OpenTracker roller perches used a sealed bearing? How do you lubricate them?
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: Aussie-67 on June 06, 2022, 03:07:18 pm
The open tracker bearings are sealed so they don't need lubrication.  That said the arms still have the grease points fitted so not sure what they lube when used.  Mine seemed to have some grease in there though.

Can anyone else clarify?

Tony

Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: seany-boy on June 06, 2022, 03:22:53 pm
Hi Phil thanks heaps for your input upon reading this I think I may give it a miss as my car is really a cruiser it doesn't get hammered well maybe sometimes but for the costs involved it doesn't seem like it will make a massive driving difference to me and my car is already lowered abit so dropping it a fraction more may cause other dramas maybe tyres rubbing or the like, again really appreciate your input. :thumb:

Ag, I am sure someone has pointed you to Kerry's excellent document https://www.mustangtech.com.au/Content/pa=showpage/pid=10.html  is similar to the Dazecars but maybe a little easier to follow a couple of key steps in. I recently did the shims in the UVCA to increase the caster to over 5 deg and it made quite a difference to the drivability, better return to centre and a bette feel to the steering generally with a less light feel on the road. I did this with the engine and steering still in the car and not replacing the UCA bolt by using cone locknuts. https://forum.mustang.org.au/index.php/topic,36076
Might be worth considering just for street drivability.
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: AussiePhil on June 06, 2022, 07:43:40 pm
Hey Seany-boy,
Yes you are right, the roller carriers are double sealed and basically can’t be greased.
There has been a lot of conversation over the years on forums about coil spring roller vs bush (polyurethane etc.) perches / carriers.
Roller bearings are supposed to rotate, not rock back and forwards.
This is we’re pitting comes into it.

If your car lumbers along the road up and down the roller bearings will have reasonable rotation.
The stiffer and less travel you have the less rotation you’ll get and more chances of pitting.

I’m certainly not saying don’t use them, I have them!
I think there is a lot of extraordinary hype about roller perches.

Cheers Phil.

Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: AussiePhil on June 06, 2022, 08:17:26 pm
If you relocate the spring perches 1", it'll give you a better motion ratio, and give you back most of the height you lost to the drop.
It'll also increase spring rate, but roller perches will negate that.
Hey vert,
I had never heard of this relocation of the spring perch before but I’ve just seen it on the Opentracker website.
It gives you another adjustability to the suspension fine tuning.

One thing I’ve never driven a Mustang without roller perches, on the web site they give them a huge wrap!
Do they make that much difference!

Cheers Phil.
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: seany-boy on June 06, 2022, 09:35:55 pm
Ha, I never noticed any difference on the road Phil, to be honest. Nice to say I have them but..... it may be different if you raced or thrashed around. I think with our Victorian roads, the bearing should rotate given the bumps and potholes everywhere!
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: AussiePhil on June 06, 2022, 09:39:49 pm
Hey all,
With all of this roller perch talk I thought I’d see what brand mine were and note it.
Do you think I could find them, for a start they are cadmium plated.
Only Prothane brand looked possible but they have a grease nipple and are slightly different.
I’ve handled these perches many times not taking particular interest and they just appeared to be roller perches.
It turns out after an hour googling they are POL Performance Online Polyurethane perches. :lmao:
They must have been fitted in the US before the car came out.
Hahaha what a goose!
Anyhow Cheers Phil.

Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: 289 vert on June 08, 2022, 10:03:41 am
The first stangs used a bronze bushing, allowing them to turn freely. Poly and roller perches do the same. To me, they seem to make higher spring rates seem less harsh, making them feel like a lighter spring. Yeah, the relocation is another point of adjustability, can always go back to the original holes if you don't like the feel.
Title: Re: Shelby UCA Drop
Post by: ag71 on June 09, 2022, 03:49:09 pm
Ag, I am sure someone has pointed you to Kerry's excellent document https://www.mustangtech.com.au/Content/pa=showpage/pid=10.html  is similar to the Dazecars but maybe a little easier to follow a couple of key steps in. I recently did the shims in the UVCA to increase the caster to over 5 deg and it made quite a difference to the drivability, better return to centre and a bette feel to the steering generally with a less light feel on the road. I did this with the engine and steering still in the car and not replacing the UCA bolt by using cone locknuts. https://forum.mustang.org.au/index.php/topic,36076
Might be worth considering just for street drivability.

thanks yes I will have a read