converting EFI windsor to carb and installation into early mustang

[65 Fastback]

Hi all,

Probably a common topic so looking for some general advice.

From my research, to convert EFI to carb on a 90's Windsor, I have pulled off the EFI intake and associated parts and installed an early windsor intake and carburettor.

I have also removed the serpentine belt and related pulleys (including power steer and AC motors) and will use conventional pulleys for crank, water pump and alternator. I assume I can't re-use the alternator that came with the motor if I just change the pulley on the front (I don't want to use the gigantic alloy bracket that previously held it).

I am aware that I need to change the water pump to a conventional one that rotates in the opposite direction to the one on it and need a conventional timing cover that provides an opening for a mechanical fuel pump (I don't want an electronic fuel pump). Please confirm this is true as I would prefer to use what I have to avoid spending unnecessary money. This goes for the alternator also, if anyone has used the late model one with a traditional bracket, let me know!

As far as engine mounts are concerned, I have read the roller Windsors have the same mounts but they don't look right to me. The ones on it are round and protrude a long way out. Do I remove these and gets the traditional type that connect to the metal brackets on cross member?

Do I have to move the dipstick which connects directly to the pan? I'd prefer not to. I am hoping the oil pan on the later windsors fit the early mustangs? (65).

Distributor - do I have to replace this with a non-electronic one? Again, hoping not to. Can the later distrubutors on these motors be simply wired?

I know the harmonic balancer is 50oz and has to stay on the front and I need a certain wheel for connecting to a T5 transmission?

Anything I've missed, please let me know. I'm looking for budget ideas to keep this a daily driver. Any recommendations for parts suppliers for the main bits - water pump, timing cover, possibly alternator, pulleys, brackets, fuel pump etc aimed at budget not performance in melbourne, please let me know.

Thanks all.

Tony

[65 Fastback]

That should read 'fly wheel' towards the end of the post. I've read 157 tooth and 164 - not sure which one I need for my application.

Tony

[GEOFF289]

You may not be able to use the 5.0 sump if its one of the rear sump ones. You'll need a front sump one as per the original 289/302's to clear the crossmember and they don't have the dipstick going in to them so you'll need a timing cover with dipstick provision (and fuel pump).

You do need a 50 ounce flywheel, 157 tooth.

I just put my 5.0 on the original '66 mounts in my car.

Depending on what your engine came from you may need to change the distributor. You should be able to use the alternator on the 5.0 but will need some minor wiring changes as it will be internally regulated so you need to take the radiator support mounted external reg out of the circuit.

You could keep the existing timing cover, bracketry, alternator and any steer and AC pumps, plenty of people have but I'm not sure what's involved. One potential issue whichever way you go is that if you have an original radiator both inlet and outlet are on the same side so you need to be aware of that.

[65 Fastback]

Thanks Geoff.

Very helpful. When you refer to a front sump, are you referring to the deepest/main part of the sump being at the front? My engine is from a 97 Fairlane so pretty sure it has the right sump. If I don’t need to change the sump, I guess I don’t need to change the dipstick?

I assume the reason to change the water pump to rotate the opposite way is to
overcome the bottom hose issue? Are there hoses available for a late model Windsor with conventional radiator?

If I use the existing alternator and pulleys minus the AC and PS motor are there shorter serpentine belts?

With regard to the mounts, did you use the 5.0 mounts onto the cross member mounts or the 66 mounts to the engine block?

So many questions! And Geoff, did you convert yours to carby or keep EFI?

Thanks

[GEOFF289]

I should have put my usual disclaimer at the start of my post - you don't want to mistake me for any sort of expert, I've taken much more from this forum than I'll ever contribute.

Yes on the sump, the deep part needs to be at the front. Most, if not all, of the 5.0's put in Fox body and later Mustangs and other yank cars had rear sumps, maybe to clear steering racks. I don't know what Ford did here but I think Falcons and Fairlanes from EB on (when they re-introduced V8's) did have racks. If the sump you have is OK and there are no other clearance issues i guess you can use that dipstick too.

You can get water pumps for a Windsor that rotate like an old one, i.e. opposite to the one on your engine, with the bottom hose connection on either side. The original '66 radiator has the inlet and outlet on the same side but you can also get a radiator for it with the bottom hose on the other side, which is actually makes for better cooling, and you can get hoses to suit either set up. You just need to know what you want to connect to what before you go buying water pumps etc. I suspect the main reason people ditch the serpentine set up is so it looks more original under the bonnet. The water pump you have will have the inlet and outlet on opposite sides, you could keep it and get a new radiator or get your existing one modified.

I just bolted my original engine mounts to the 5.0 block and dropped it onto the other part of the mount on the shock towers. Didn't have to change anything except maybe the bolts into the block as 5.0s's are generally metric. However, my 5.0 is an American piece, maybe Ford did something different with the mounts here.

Mine has a 600 Holley on a Weiand manifold, mech fuel pump and MSD dizzy and coil, old style water pump and timing cover. T5 behind it. If we ever get out of lockdown you're welcome to come and have a look if that would help.

[J.hatzivalsamis]

I have done exactly that conversion and used pretty much all my pulleys v belt on the new build , One of the main things to get is the timing chain cover and the acentric to run your manual fuel pump, the dipstick also fits in that cover like an old one i welded up the hole on the side of sump, i hope this helps some.

[J.hatzivalsamis]

See photo.

[kowalski]

Was talking to my mechanic about something similar just recently.
Think he swapped into an older F100 or something.
He made the point that the cam needs to be matched to the application as the efi cam is optimised for efi.

[65 Fastback]

You might be right about the cam Kowalski but many have done this swap and the only issue I've heard about with the cam is whether there is a lobe that can operate the mechanical fuel pump.

If anyone has done this swap to carby from an EFI motor, did anyone have to swap the cam for any reason. It's the last thing I want to do. From my reading last night, the windsor EFI motors from the 90s can operate a mechanical fuel pump from the cam that came standard with the motor.

Can anyone shed any light on that?

[Dwayne]

Plenty of people have kept the stock efi cam with no issues. 

You just need to make sure the distributor gear matches the cam material or it'll get chewed out quickly.

[GEOFF289]

Unless you're rebuilding/modifying the engine for more performance the so called EFI cam isn't an issue. For your stated objectives in terms of the car's use it'll be fine. What Dwayne says about the dizzy gear is important so keep it in mind when you're shopping for a dizzy.

[Dwayne]

Oh, and the firing order is also different to the old windsors.

[65 Fastback]

So just to be sure, the current dizzy can’t be used? Or rewired? And if I do need a new dizzy surely the gear would have replicate the existing one?

Is there any aftermarket dizzy someone has used that works with EFI engines? Brand/part number?

[GEOFF289]

So just to be sure, the current dizzy can’t be used? Or rewired? And if I do need a new dizzy surely the gear would have replicate the existing one?

Is there any aftermarket dizzy someone has used that works with EFI engines? Brand/part number?

I refer you back to my earlier disclaimer but it might depend on whether your EFI engine has coil on plug ignition, i.e. an individual coil for each cylinder. I'm pretty sure Ford changed to this with their 6 cylinder engines at EL Falcon but I don't know about the 8's. If it does have this whiz bang new tech and you want to ditch the EFI I think you'll need a different dizzy. As I mentioned I have an MSD one in mine, which I've had no problems with, but others on here don't rate them. The locally made https://www.iceignition.com/ get good press both for product and support. Give them a call and they'll be able to tell you what you need, probably including answering your specific question. A roller cam engine like your's needs a steel gear on the dizzy.

[65 Fastback]

Thanks Geoff, very helpful. Cheers

[65 Fastback]

Good morning all,

A question about oil pan and dipstick on a roller Windsor motor… if I swap to a traditional timing cover with dipstick, is there a plug available for the dipstick hole in the pan? I know some have had theirs welded up but I am looking for a cheaper/easier option.

Thanks

[66FBK]

The last of the AU Falcon 5Lt motors ditched the dizzy and had a 8 block coil pack and crank sensor but the dizzy hole is still there (just plugged up) and the cam still has the gear to drive a dizzy. You will need a offset cam wheel to drive your fuel pump which bolts on the front of the timing gear. Most original or aftermarket V drive pulleys will bolt to your 50 Oz harmonic balancer. Be mindful you will need a 50oz 157 aftermarket flywheel (all available)
Buy new stock 66 windsor engine mounts and like I found out on startup, post '86 5Lt motor use the 351 firing order. I re-used the dipstick. just bent it back mounted it to the block. Normally the yellow dip stick is the only give away to a 5Lt engine swap. I have a XP Falcon with a 5Lt engine swap. My mechanic managed to use a small serpantine belt to run the altanator and old school water pump. I don't know where he got the pulleys from but I would recomend using a V belt setup. These roller motors spin like tops and retain all the non metric threads and mounting points from the '64 to 2002.

[65 Fastback]

Thanks 66FBK,

I too will keep the dipstick. Thinking of keeping the timing cover also and running an aftermarket fuel pump.

Cheers Tony

[66FBK]

I think you will find the EFI timing cover won't take the old school water pump. The EFI water pump has a different shape and bolt pattern.