Do you have to degree a new cam ?

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Author Topic: Do you have to degree a new cam ?  (Read 482706 times)

Offline barnett468

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #350 on: February 27, 2016, 01:06:18 pm »
.
You may very well need a small one of these for a hand held drill also . They can dull sharp edges on the cam gear without really removing any metal . Even microscopic edges can cause premature wear.

...........



« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 01:09:15 pm by barnett468 »

Offline Fitzy1980

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #351 on: February 27, 2016, 01:13:22 pm »
You can see the circular groves. Very very shallow but there nonetheless.

Offline shaunp

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #352 on: February 27, 2016, 01:17:03 pm »
Ive never used a comp one, I have use both MSD and Mallory straight out of the box with steel gears and had no issue yet.

Offline barnett468

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #353 on: February 27, 2016, 01:21:55 pm »
Ive never used a comp one, I have use both MSD and Mallory straight out of the box with steel gears and had no issue yet.

That's good to know . It's definitely no fun to learn the hard way . I think that Trev or someone said the MSD and Comp steel gear are the same which they certainly could be but I don't know.

I do know that his MSD bronze gear was an Ampco 45 which is the best one available and that didn't work out so well . Many people have gotten a few years out of that gear and even more but most of them are adding additional oil to the gears and burnishing the gear on the cam.

The MSD gear has a super fine finish so burnishing that would likely be counterproductive.



« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 01:29:24 pm by barnett468 »

Offline shaunp

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #354 on: February 27, 2016, 01:26:41 pm »
What issue did you have with the lifters, ? I've use a few setts of their HR lifters in recent times, last 18 months, haven't had an issue with them.

Offline shaunp

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #355 on: February 27, 2016, 01:29:21 pm »
You can see the circular groves. Very very shallow but there nonetheless.

Gallery plug looks like normal welsh plug, Is it not a screw in one?

Offline barnett468

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #356 on: February 27, 2016, 01:31:05 pm »
You can see the circular groves. Very very shallow but there nonetheless.

fuk, fuk, fuk, fuk, fuk.

your fk'n SOFT bronze gear was eating your fk'n iron block . what the fk is up with that? . oh wait, its a Chinese block .  :lmao:

it also looks like that area was not machined flat but i would need a different photo to tell . if the ridge is higher on one side then the pad was not machined flat.

« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 01:38:20 pm by barnett468 »

Offline barnett468

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #357 on: February 27, 2016, 01:32:49 pm »
Gallery plug looks like normal welsh plug, Is it not a screw in one?

This is supposed to be  f'n dart block or something so I for one hope they are screw in . This just gets worse the more photos he posts fkn sob.


Offline shaunp

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #358 on: February 27, 2016, 01:36:08 pm »
This is supposed to be  f'n dart block or something so I for one hope they are screw in . This just gets worse the more photos he posts fkn sob.

Hmm wonder what the rest is like. Maybe send the whole thing up to Woody @ Fataz racing here in Brisbane for look over.


https://www.facebook.com/fatazcompetitionengines/
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 01:37:46 pm by shaunp »

Offline Fitzy1980

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #359 on: February 27, 2016, 01:37:25 pm »
If i lift the gear, no way im getting 0.10 in there.

See the slightly raised part on the bottom of the gear. I can only use say .003-.004 to clear that anything else hits it. If i press down with a .004 i've got to pull on it to get it out.

Not sure if that explains it well enough

Offline Fitzy1980

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #360 on: February 27, 2016, 01:38:52 pm »
Its ford motorsport block. Whatever that means

Offline shaunp

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #361 on: February 27, 2016, 01:40:23 pm »
Its ford motorsport block. Whatever that means

Is it a Boss block ? are the welsh plugs in the water jacket screw in?

Offline barnett468

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #362 on: February 27, 2016, 01:42:36 pm »
If i lift the gear, no way im getting 0.10 in there.

See the slightly raised part on the bottom of the gear. I can only use say .003-.004 to clear that anything else hits it. If i press down with a .004 i've got to pull on it to get it out.

Not sure if that explains it well enough

What i am trying to figure out is whether the distributor was binding slightly when it was all new . this would wear the block out AND it would instantly kill your cam gear.

I hope you are beginning to understand why i am sounding so anal about this particular issue and realize the seriousness of it.




Offline Fitzy1980

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #363 on: February 27, 2016, 01:43:20 pm »
Gallery plug looks like normal welsh plug, Is it not a screw in one?

Nah there screw in, just some oil in there

Offline Fitzy1980

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #364 on: February 27, 2016, 01:44:32 pm »
Is it a Boss block ? are the welsh plugs in the water jacket screw in?

Yes

Offline barnett468

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #365 on: February 27, 2016, 01:46:01 pm »
DO YOU HAVE A DIAL CALIPER YOU CAN MEASURE THE DISTANCE FROM THE TOP OF THE BLOCK TO THE PAD AND THE BASE OF THE DISTRIBUTOR TO THE BOTTOM OF THE GEAR WITH?

Offline Fitzy1980

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #366 on: February 27, 2016, 01:47:58 pm »
What i am trying to figure out is whether the distributor was binding slightly when it was all new . this would wear the block out AND it would instantly kill your cam gear.

I hope you are beginning to understand why i am sounding so anal about this particular issue and realize the seriousness of it.


I just want the f'n thing fixed.

Whats the plan of attack. I assume those circular grooves had to be removed ?

Or is a case of cut my loses pack it up and send it to someone else to fix. Last resort at this stage

Offline Fitzy1980

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #367 on: February 27, 2016, 01:48:44 pm »
DO YOU HAVE A DIAL CALIPER YOU CAN MEASURE THE DISTANCE FROM THE TOP OF THE BLOCK TO THE PAD AND THE BASE OF THE DISTRIBUTOR TO THE BOTTOM OF THE GEAR WITH?

No.

What about verniers ?

Offline barnett468

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #368 on: February 27, 2016, 01:51:55 pm »
No.

What about verniers ?

You can certainly try it if you can see well enough and know how to use them.

This may or may not be a big problem . We really need to see the gear mesh with the cam in if the distance is incorrect but I'm pretty sure we can make it work.

I wouldn't worry about the rest of the engine . This is just an area that few places check and it absolutely must be checked on aftermarket blocks and distributors etc.
.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 01:57:09 pm by barnett468 »

Offline Fitzy1980

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #369 on: February 27, 2016, 01:58:33 pm »
Cam retainer and timing gear

Offline Fitzy1980

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #370 on: February 27, 2016, 02:04:51 pm »
DO YOU HAVE A DIAL CALIPER YOU CAN MEASURE THE DISTANCE FROM THE TOP OF THE BLOCK TO THE PAD AND THE BASE OF THE DISTRIBUTOR TO THE BOTTOM OF THE GEAR WITH?

Can't do the block measurement accurately.

Distributor is around 3.9785" Approx


What's the point of building me an engine with all these big digit parts if it fails to what seems a relatively small issue that should have been done when it was assembled.

As they say a mug is born every minute  :ouch:
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 02:08:35 pm by Fitzy1980 »

Offline barnett468

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #371 on: February 27, 2016, 02:07:05 pm »
.
Take a close up photo of your front cam bearing AFTER you wipe the oil out.

there should be a hole in the block on the bottom and the side that line up with the holes in the bearing.


Offline barnett468

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #372 on: February 27, 2016, 02:09:03 pm »
your photos are way too small.

is that a big wear groove in the retainer?

is that a bearing on the one side?

what is on the back of the cam gear?

what brand is it?

can you check the cam end play?
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 02:11:33 pm by barnett468 »

Offline Fitzy1980

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #373 on: February 27, 2016, 02:19:29 pm »
.
Take a close up photo of your front cam bearing AFTER you wipe the oil out.

there should be a hole in the block on the bottom and the side that line up with the holes in the bearing.


just charging camera back up.

But it does line up perfectly on the bottom.

The 2 holes on the upper left and right have a hole in the bearing bit looks like the block behind them.

Holes at 10 and 2 holes in bearing only from what i can see.

Holes 6 is fine.


Offline Fitzy1980

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #374 on: February 27, 2016, 02:24:37 pm »
your photos are way too small.

is that a big wear groove in the retainer?

I thought that too but looks to be the way it's made.

is that a bearing on the one side?

Yes

what is on the back of the cam gear?


what brand is it?

Rollmaster

can you check the cam end play?

Yeah, ill go back a few pages to find it.


How do upload larger photos ?

Imageshack or something ?