Do you have to degree a new cam ?

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Author Topic: Do you have to degree a new cam ?  (Read 482714 times)

Offline barnett468

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #100 on: February 23, 2016, 03:05:05 pm »
:thumb:

My main concern is compatibility with the existing engine. I'd like to avoid having to switch to different lifters, springs, etc etc.

New cam, back together, tune and  :burnout: :burnout:

Still need the diff ratio.

You will not have to change anything other than possibly injector jetting with any of the cams below.

Snausage can make that cam and send it to you if you want but it is not what I would use.

You can order other cams from the US.

You can buy many cams in oz . In oz, VPW Warehouse sells some Comp and Cranes and APD sells Cranes and Crane may sell direct there.

Ok, it looks like they could have paid $1200.00 usd less for a set of AFR 205 fully cnc ported heads and gotten quite a bit more power out of it . DART says your heads die out at .600" valve lift . AFR 205 heads die out at around .700" valve lift, and have more flow.

ENGINE

363 stroker
Pro 1 210 cc aluminum heads . valves 2.05 1.60 . flow 305 208 @ .600" lift . 68% ex to in flow.
Headers 1 3/4" into 3"
Intake has 4 huge Webers
Compression 11.5:1
Top loader 4 speed with unknown ratio
Diff gears unknown but will post later


Here's some solid roller cam options . I would use the Comp 35-770-8 . It will have around 500 crank hp and will do the 1/4 mile in around 10.8 seconds if you can get traction .  :lmao:


YOUR SNAUSAGE IS ... 290 290 . 230 230 . lobes 365 365 . rocker 1.7 . 620 620 . lsa 114


These are the alternative cams that will work for you . I would consider for your engine.

CRANE 448501 ...........  280 288 . 230 238 . lobes 338 350 . rocker 1.7 . 574 595 . lsa 110

CROWER 15458 ........... 280 288 . 232 242 . lobes 330 331 . rocker 1.7 . 561 562 . lsa 112

HOWARDS 220183-10 .. 269 275 . 237 243 . lobes 370 370 . rocker 1.7 . 629 629 . lsa 110

LUNATI 40350731 ........ 267 273 . 237 243 . lobes 367 385 . rocker 1.7 . 639 654 . lsa 110

HOWARDS 221313-10 .. 277 277 . 245 245   lobes 390 390 . rocker 1.7 . 663 663 . lsa 110

COMP CAMS 35-770-8 .. 274 280 . 236 242 . lobes 377 381 . rocker 1.7 . 641 648 . lsa 110

COMP CAMS 35-771-8 .. 280 286 . 242 248 . lobes 381 385 . rocker 1.7 . 648 654 . lsa 110 





« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 03:25:03 pm by barnett468 »

Offline barnett468

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #101 on: February 23, 2016, 03:39:59 pm »
Here it is in oz . $451.00 but i dont know if that is usd or aud.

http://vpw.com.au/Category/Index/401450


$319.00 usd . $451.00 aud delivered to your door.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Comp-Cams-35-770-8-Xtreme-Energy-Mechanical-Roller-Camshaft-br-Ford-351W-1969-95-/200769339844?hash=item2ebec901c4:m:mL1eemFJVtGndU4pc-mr3fg


Here's that cam in a 363 Ford engine with what I think is ported RHS 215 heads and 2880 lbs.

10.15 @ 132.00 mph after the front tires come off the ground . Is that fast enough fer ya!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXFR2mhP0I8




.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 04:00:20 pm by barnett468 »

Offline trav68

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #102 on: February 23, 2016, 04:10:54 pm »
VPW website prices are AUD and they are good to deal with.

Offline barnett468

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #103 on: February 23, 2016, 04:20:10 pm »
VPW website prices are AUD and they are good to deal with.

Someone told me if I look at either their site or CHI's site from the US, the prices are shown in US dollars .  I guess if someone in oz looks at it we will know.

.

Offline Fitzy1980

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #104 on: February 23, 2016, 04:54:56 pm »
Wow

Barn your a legend.

Have a Fosters on me  :cheers: :cheers:  :lmao:

Didn't get a chance to get the cam out, had a few things to do.

Manifold etc is off at least.

I'll work out the diff ratio first thing tomorrow morning.


So at this stage, narrowed down to this

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=918&sb=2

Any others out of that list that are worth considering ?

I know i really don't need a 9,000rpm engine for the street, i do want to do a few race days here and there so i guess a compromise there is fine.






« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 05:18:10 pm by Fitzy1980 »

Offline barnett468

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #105 on: February 23, 2016, 05:30:08 pm »
Wow

Barn your a legend.

OK...wait for it...

Offline barnett468

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #106 on: February 23, 2016, 05:31:00 pm »
.
.........Yes...I am!


Offline barnett468

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #107 on: February 23, 2016, 05:57:36 pm »

Any others out of that list that are worth considering ?

I know i really don't need a 9,000rpm engine for the street, i do want to do a few race days here and there so i guess a compromise there is fine.

There are some other good cams there but its basically impossible to explain what effect each one will have.

I based my choice on ALL your parts and your comment that you like the way your engine runs . The only way to make it run exactly like it did is to buy the Snausage gear breaker cam.

I can tell you that this cam will rev around the same as your previous cam but will have more mid range power and throttle response and a similar idle . It may have a tiny bit less bottom end but that's kinda hard for me to tell . If someone here has a desktop dyno, they could run both cams for us and tell us what the difference is.

Others will look at the list and will also make suggestions.

The next size down from that cam are the ones below which are both very similar . Both of those cams would basically lower the entire rpm range slightly like maybe 200 rpm.

HOWARDS 220183-10 .. 269 275 . 237 243 . lobes 370 370 . rocker 1.7 . 629 629 . lsa 110

LUNATI 40350731 ........ 267 273 . 237 243 . lobes 367 385 . rocker 1.7 . 639 654 . lsa 110

.

« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 06:09:32 pm by barnett468 »

Offline Fitzy1980

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #108 on: February 23, 2016, 06:04:36 pm »
There are some other good cams there but its basically impossible to explain what effect each one will have.

I based my choice on ALL your parts and your comment that you like the way your engine runs . The only way to make it run exactly like it did is to buy the Snausage gear breaker cam.

I can tell you that this cam will rev around the same as your previous cam but will have a more mid range power and throttle response and a similar idle.

Others will look at the list and will also make suggestions.
.

Well the snausage is off to the Fleischwolf.

Now the million dollar question.

What dizzy gear ???  :lmao: :lmao:


Offline trav68

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #109 on: February 23, 2016, 06:38:29 pm »
Mate if you are just doing occasional track days a hydraulic roller cam will be fine and save on the maintenance issues of a solid roller as a few others have mentioned.

In my mind solid roller, roll cages, oil coolers, slicks, aggressive tyre chewing alignments etc all go hand in hand ...and it won't be an (easily) road registerable beast that you want to cruise in. 

I have a custom comp hydraulic roller in my 347 that is pretty similar to the specs to the XR274R you linked to above and is a perfect weekend cruiser that sees some track action. My powerplant is a bit more basic than yours stock 302 block, SCAT cast rotating, Mahle forged 10.9:1 pistons, Trickflow 190 11R heads, RPM Airgap and Quickflow double pumper 750 ~ 380 rwhp. This setup is seriously quick and with no valvetrain maintenance worries.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 06:52:10 pm by trav68 »

Offline barnett468

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #110 on: February 23, 2016, 07:15:16 pm »
Now the million dollar question.

What dizzy gear ???  :lmao: :lmao:

One that has all the teeth on it .  :lmao:

Offline barnett468

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #111 on: February 23, 2016, 07:18:25 pm »
.


Offline Fitzy1980

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #112 on: February 23, 2016, 07:18:44 pm »
One that has all the teeth on it .  :lmao:


I think comp recommend the composite gear

Offline Fitzy1980

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #113 on: February 23, 2016, 07:19:18 pm »

Offline Fitzy1980

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #114 on: February 23, 2016, 07:22:20 pm »
Mate if you are just doing occasional track days a hydraulic roller cam will be fine and save on the maintenance issues of a solid roller as a few others have mentioned.

In my mind solid roller, roll cages, oil coolers, slicks, aggressive tyre chewing alignments etc all go hand in hand ...and it won't be an (easily) road registerable beast that you want to cruise in. 

I have a custom comp hydraulic roller in my 347 that is pretty similar to the specs to the XR274R you linked to above and is a perfect weekend cruiser that sees some track action. My powerplant is a bit more basic than yours stock 302 block, SCAT cast rotating, Mahle forged 10.9:1 pistons, Trickflow 190 11R heads, RPM Airgap and Quickflow double pumper 750 ~ 380 rwhp. This setup is seriously quick and with no valvetrain maintenance worries.


Cheers Trav.

I do like the idea of less maintenance but i assume ill have to swap existing parts out again.

It only sees the road a few days a month here and there. Something ill have to weigh up.

Thing has cost me a small african nations gdp over the past couple of years. Mrs is about to string me up  :lmao:
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 07:24:10 pm by Fitzy1980 »

Offline barnett468

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #115 on: February 23, 2016, 07:56:20 pm »
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The comp cam is a selectively austempered ductile iron core or SADI . It does NOT require a bronze gear, and if your current cam is a SADI also, it should not have had a bronze gear because the bronze gear might wear extremely fast or break .  :lmao:

If you post a close up photo of your cam, we can tell you what it is.

You can use a hardened steel, melonized steel or cast iron gear with your cam . The melonized gear is probably the best . I think Comp, Crane, and Lunati make the melo ones.

 :bow: .

« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 08:14:04 pm by barnett468 »

Offline barnett468

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #116 on: February 23, 2016, 08:15:43 pm »
.
HIGH VOLUME OIL PUMP

If you have one, you might want to yank it out . You can probably run a standard Mellings pump and buy a 60 60 psi spring for it.

Then use 15w-40 oil.



« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 08:18:27 pm by barnett468 »

Offline GLENN 70

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #117 on: February 23, 2016, 08:17:48 pm »
Have you taken the lifters out yet ?  .they need a full inspection ,then when you pull the cam it needs an inspection also for lobe damage to see if there was a problem .  Spring pressures need to be matched to the new cam also and even if the spring pressure are the same you should get them checked as its been sitting around for a while .  Tappet clearances and valve spring pressures will need constant checking with a solid roller . I can't believe you won't go hyd roller ,but yes you will have to change the valve springs or there spring pressure .  With the hyd roller its really set and forget ,and you can drive on the street when you like . 

Offline barnett468

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #118 on: February 23, 2016, 08:25:50 pm »
.
you can remove one spring with the heads on, but you need to rent a tool, then screw a detachable compression gauge hose into the spark plug hole then hook up a compressor to it with the piston at tdc and the car in gear with the e brake on.

the only concern is that your springs might have gotten a little soft or are a little weak for the comp cam but if it ran fine before at high rpm, it should be fine now but it definitely won't hurt to check.

the other thing you could do is see if the idiots know the part number of the springs they used or if thy bought the heads with the springs in them.
.

Offline shaunp

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #119 on: February 23, 2016, 08:30:20 pm »
.
The comp cam is a selectively austempered ductile iron core or SADI . It does NOT require a bronze gear, and if your current cam is a SADI also, it should not have had a bronze gear because the bronze gear might wear extremely fast or break .  :lmao:

If you post a close up photo of your cam, we can tell you what it is.

You can use a hardened steel, melonized steel or cast iron gear with your cam . The melonized gear is probably the best . I think Comp, Crane, and Lunati make the melo ones.

 :bow: .

Comp say you can use the melonized steel gear on the -9 steel billet shafts as well now. MSD now sell the Pro billets with them fitted. I personally would pay the extra and get the Comp cam ground on a steel billet they will take much a higher spring load if you are going to rev it hard. Comp will grind what ever you ask for about $350 on a steel blank.

Offline GLENN 70

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #120 on: February 23, 2016, 08:30:34 pm »
Its a solid roller so spring pressures are going to be very high .

Offline shaunp

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #121 on: February 23, 2016, 08:35:36 pm »
Its a solid roller so spring pressures are going to be very high .

Id look at what diameter they are, and if he uses a quieter cam drop the rate some. Trickflow sell springs pretty cheap, they are actually PAC racing springs and they are cheaper then buying them direct as Pac springs I got a set a little while back 145 or 150 cant recall, on the seat about $140 I think they were.


Offline barnett468

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #123 on: February 23, 2016, 09:02:05 pm »
Comp say you can use the melonized steel gear on the -9 steel billet shafts as well now. MSD now sell the Pro billets with them fitted.

Yeah, I took a look and Crane and Lunati do make them also . Crane discontinued them for a while but after Comp Cams bought them, they started making them again but I think they are different than the Comp Cams ones . The old cranes were really nice . Lunati also makes a gear cal;ed an Ever Wear which is also steel and compatible with every cam but it is $20.00 less than their melonzed gear . I talked to Lunati about it before but couldn't get much info . I will look into therm a bit more tomorrow..

I'm also thinking that there are two different types of Melonizing  One makes the gear black and one makes it kind of greenish which is the same color as the OEM gears which is the color of the old Crane gear.

« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 09:22:46 pm by barnett468 »

Offline barnett468

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Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
« Reply #124 on: February 23, 2016, 09:04:00 pm »
Id look at what diameter they are, and if he uses a quieter cam drop the rate some. Trickflow sell springs pretty cheap, they are actually PAC racing springs and they are cheaper then buying them direct as Pac springs I got a set a little while back 145 or 150 cant recall, on the seat about $140 I think they were.

The Cam I suggested has more .020" more lift and steeper ramps, lol.