Mustang Owners Club Australia Forum

Technical & General Discussion Area => Tech Torque Pre 1973 => Topic started by: Fitzy1980 on February 17, 2016, 10:39:54 am

Title: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 17, 2016, 10:39:54 am
Hey all,

Pretty self explanatory.

Is it necessary to degree a new cam, or is it dependent on engine specs, use etc ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 17, 2016, 11:17:11 am
.
No, it will still run decent even if it is off a degree or two from the mfg's recommendation . Also, a cam from a quality company will be correct, however, which companies are these? . Irregardless, it certainly won't hurt.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: trav68 on February 17, 2016, 11:18:16 am
No, you can install it "dot to dot". This is based on timing marks on the timing chain which is doweled to camshaft and keyed to crank. Hence, you will have some cumulative error from camshift grinding as well as timing chain assuming the camshaft is ground accurately which it most likely is if it is a COMP, Lunati etc etc

Degreeing a cam allows you to check the valve timing events against the cam card (as a double check it is ground and packaged correctly) and adjust for any timing issues depending on what timing chain you have purchased.

To degreee you will need a degree wheel, spare lifter, dial gauge and old wire to fashion a pointer. . I have never really timed the operation but all going well an hour should cover it.

I do it for all my builds but upto the individual and there is a difference between something you have injected 10k worth of parts and machining into versus a basic warm cam stocker rebuild.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 17, 2016, 11:22:14 am
.
Ham Sandwich
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 17, 2016, 11:25:54 am
.
Ham Sandwich

There will plenty of time for that when i start the cam swap thread  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: trav68 on February 17, 2016, 11:54:48 am
Isn't your motor full of topshelf goodies and pretty highly strung?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 17, 2016, 12:23:59 pm
Isn't your motor full of topshelf goodies and pretty highly strung?

 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 17, 2016, 12:25:01 pm
There will plenty of time for that when i start the cam swap thread  :lmao:

mmm yum...can't wait .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 17, 2016, 12:47:41 pm
Isn't your motor full of topshelf goodies and pretty highly strung?

I guess so...

Barnett ?  :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GEOFF289 on February 17, 2016, 12:57:13 pm
So does this mean you got no joy from the engine builder over the bronze dizzy gear and are rebuilding it yourself?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 17, 2016, 01:02:07 pm
Comp say you can used Mellonised steel gear now with a roller
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 17, 2016, 01:06:21 pm
So does this mean you got no joy from the engine builder over the bronze dizzy gear and are rebuilding it yourself?

Yeah, which should be fun  :pepper:


But hey on the bright side i've got you blokes to help, i mean confuse the hell out of me.  :thumb:

What could go wrong  :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 17, 2016, 01:15:24 pm
So does this mean you got no joy from the engine builder over the bronze dizzy gear

  . :lmao:


and are rebuilding it yourself?

 .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 17, 2016, 01:21:22 pm
What could go wrong  :lmao: :lmao:

..(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_6PE2CNU9rc/ULKBYLGi2TI/AAAAAAAAAsY/L9GfuS0fd4w/s1600/Casshamsandwich.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: trav68 on February 17, 2016, 01:24:27 pm
Up to you mate but I would seriously consider it. With all the knowledgeable guys here you will be fine.

I am an engineer so like to remove any element of error, or guess work, so piston valve check and degree cams. The upside to this general approach is you don't end up on the side of the road..or one of those poor souls at a trackdays parked up with mechanical gremlims by mid morning.

Sounds like you have had a few little dramas so suspect for your own sanity it would be good to go through everything thoroughly sort it once and for all and then you can just enjoy the car for many years to to come problem free.

Trav
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 17, 2016, 09:57:28 pm
Whats the best way heads on or off ?

I know it can be done either way just wasn't sure.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: trav68 on February 18, 2016, 11:06:45 am
Um, heads on so you can spend money on refreshements not head gaskets.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 18, 2016, 12:00:40 pm
Whats the best way heads on or off ?

On.


I know it can be done either way...

Yes, by a qualified mechanic.
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 18, 2016, 12:01:10 pm

Ham Sandwich...


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 18, 2016, 12:01:33 pm

with Mustard...
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 18, 2016, 12:03:07 pm

and pickles...
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 18, 2016, 12:09:03 pm
.
 :agree:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 18, 2016, 12:09:45 pm
.
 :agree:

 .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 18, 2016, 02:02:54 pm
CAM REMOVAL OPTION A

Put the car in gear with the parking brake on.

Place something thick on both FRONT fenders to protect them . If you use cloth, put some newspaper on top to keep oil from soaking through . You can also by plain or magnetic fender covers . Supercheap may have them.

Remove the battery and place it on wood, not on the concrete . This will not only give you more elbow room, it will allow you to use the battery tray to put stuff on . Put newspaper on the tray.

Drain the oil then drag a magnet thru it . If you get much metal, it is not a good sign.

Remove the radiator cap then drain the rad fluid.

Remove the radiator.

Remove the radiator fan if it is mechanical.

Remove the fan belts.

Remove the alternator and brackets.

Move the power steering pump and bracket out of the way if you have one.

Remove the valve covers.

Remove the spark plugs.

Remove the water pump.

Remove the lower crank pulley.

Count the number of mounting holes in your pulley then rent a damper pulley with the same number of holes.

Put the car in neutral.

Use a ratchet to turn the damper clockwise as you face the engine until you see the intake valve on the head to the left of you go down then all the way back up . Continue to turn the damper around 1/3 rd of a turn more until the TDC [zero] line lines up with the pointer on the timing cover.

Put the car in gear.

Use a long breaker bar to turn the damper bolt counter clockwise as you face the engine until it is loose, then remove it and the flat washer.

Use the puller and wrench to remove the damper.

Remove the timing pointer.

Remove the timing cover . It might need to be pried on lightly if they used sealer.

Remove the carb linkage and fuel line.

Remove the carb.

Remove the intake manifold.

Remove the rocker nuts one at a time . If they have an allen screw in the center, turn it counter clockwise 1 1/2 turn, then reinstall the nut with 1 turn only.

Move the rocker arms to the side so the push rods are exposed.

Remove all the push rods and put them in a plastic bag.

Remove all the lifters.

Remove the bolt on the cam gear.

Hold the cam gear and pry on it so it only moves 6 mm [1/4"] forward.

Pry the bottom gear so it only moves 10 mm forward.

Pry on the cam gear until it comes off.

Get around a 20 cm [8"] long bolt the same size as the cam bolt.

Screw the bolt into the end of the cam gear around 20 mm.

Pull the cam forward slowly while trying to keep the rear of the cam centered by using leverage on the bolt.

The cam will move around 30 mm at which point the journals will no longer be in the cam bearings . At this point, the cam will be able to flop around . Continue to remove it slowly . When it stops moving, try to center it with the bolt bolt as you gently pull on it until it moves again . The cam may stop several times as you pull on it . This is common.

Inspect the front of the block for metal where the distributor gear was located and clean the area.



Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 18, 2016, 11:04:30 pm

Yes, by a qualified mechanic.
.

Hurtful  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 18, 2016, 11:07:48 pm
CAM REMOVAL OPTION A

Put the car in gear with the parking brake on.

Place something thick on both FRONT fenders to protect them . If you use cloth, put some newspaper on top to keep oil from soaking through . You can also by plain or magnetic fender covers . Supercheap may have them.

Remove the battery and place it on wood, not on the concrete . This will not only give you more elbow room, it will allow you to use the battery tray to put stuff on . Put newspaper on the tray.

Drain the oil then drag a magnet thru it . If you get much metal, it is not a good sign.

Remove the radiator cap then drain the rad fluid.

Remove the radiator.

Remove the radiator fan if it is mechanical.

Remove the fan belts.

Remove the alternator and brackets.

Move the power steering pump and bracket out of the way if you have one.

Remove the valve covers.

Remove the spark plugs.

Remove the water pump.

Remove the lower crank pulley.

Count the number of mounting holes in your pulley then rent a damper pulley with the same number of holes.

Put the car in neutral.

Use a ratchet to turn the damper clockwise as you face the engine until you see the intake valve on the head to the left of you go down then all the way back up . Continue to turn the damper around 1/3 rd of a turn more until the TDC [zero] line lines up with the pointer on the timing cover.

Put the car in gear.

Use a long breaker bar to turn the damper bolt counter clockwise as you face the engine until it is loose, then remove it and the flat washer.

Use the puller and wrench to remove the damper.

Remove the timing pointer.

Remove the timing cover . It might need to be pried on lightly if they used sealer.

Remove the carb linkage and fuel line.

Remove the carb.

Remove the intake manifold.

Remove the rocker nuts one at a time . If they have an allen screw in the center, turn it counter clockwise 1 1/2 turn, then reinstall the nut with 1 turn only.

Move the rocker arms to the side so the push rods are exposed.

Remove all the push rods and put them in a plastic bag.

Remove all the lifters.

Remove the bolt on the cam gear.

Hold the cam gear and pry on it so it only moves 6 mm [1/4"] forward.

Pry the bottom gear so it only moves 10 mm forward.

Pry on the cam gear until it comes off.

Get around a 20 cm [8"] long bolt the same size as the cam bolt.

Screw the bolt into the end of the cam gear around 20 mm.

Pull the cam forward slowly while trying to keep the rear of the cam centered by using leverage on the bolt.

The cam will move around 30 mm at which point the journals will no longer be in the cam bearings . At this point, the cam will be able to flop around . Continue to remove it slowly . When it stops moving, try to center it with the bolt bolt as you gently pull on it until it moves again . The cam may stop several times as you pull on it . This is common.

Inspect the front of the block for metal where the distributor gear was located and clean the area.


Had a spare few mins i see  :cheers:

Thanks mate, much appreciated.


Stay tuned for lots of laughs, festivities kick off Saturday.  :evilone:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 19, 2016, 04:53:37 am
Had a spare few mins i see  :cheers:

Thanks mate, much appreciated.
Stay tuned for lots of laughs, festivities kick off Saturday.  :evilone:

xlnt cant wait . this should be amusi...uh, I mean informative  . You can possibly rent the damper puller and other tools you need.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: trav68 on February 19, 2016, 10:56:31 am
Balancer removal - you can just match drill a scrap bit of plate (~ 6mm) to suit your 3/4 hole balancer, put a spacer between the balancer bolt head and hte plate, then screw in the 3/4 bolts like jacking bolts.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 19, 2016, 01:20:31 pm
xlnt cant wait . this should be amusi...uh, I mean informative  . You can possibly rent the damper puller and other tools you need.


I'll just buy the gear.

Probably need it all again anyway when the motor grenades itself on startup.  :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 19, 2016, 01:56:37 pm

I'll just buy the gear.

Probably need it all again anyway when the motor grenades itself on startup.  :lmao: :lmao:

Do you mean you really expect it to start after you're done?  :lmao:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 19, 2016, 06:46:51 pm
I use a rattle gun to undo the crank bolt, on modern cars which have no key way, they generally done up to about 350ftlb the normal practice is to put a long breaker bar over the the chassis and hit the start a couple of time knock them straight off. Of cause you disable the ignition. I do this often particular on diesel's
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 19, 2016, 11:15:06 pm
Do you mean you really expect it to start after you're done?  :lmao:

I'm slightly optimistic  :thumb:  :lol:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 20, 2016, 09:47:27 am
Barn,

In addition to your instruction list a few posts up, i'm guessing its worth removing the sump completely and washing it out and checking the oil pump screen for any potential metal ??

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 20, 2016, 09:56:22 am
Barn,

In addition to your instruction list a few posts up, i'm guessing its worth removing the sump completely and washing it out and checking the oil pump screen for any potential metal ??

Well. that is a totally f'd job to do, especially without a lift, but it would be ideal and the safest thing.

My best guess on what i have seen is that you would have a couple of pieces of metal in the pan but that the screen on the pump "should" prevent them from entering the pump.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 21, 2016, 05:56:45 pm
Good news, didn't find any metal in the oil.   :pepper:

" Use a ratchet to turn the damper clockwise as you face the engine until you see the intake valve on the head to the left of you go down then all the way back up . Continue to turn the damper around 1/3 rd of a turn more until the TDC [zero] line lines up with the pointer on the timing cover. "


The damper is already marked at TDC with a sharpie, not sure if it's at zero i can't read the numbers well enough. Do i run with the engine builders markings or ignore them and find 0.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 21, 2016, 06:29:14 pm
.
wow, been gone so long i thought we lost ya!

find zero . the damper is engraved with lines up to at least 30, or at least it better be for $15,000 friggen dollars .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 21, 2016, 06:32:25 pm
.
Tuna Fish.  :smash:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 21, 2016, 06:36:41 pm
.
wow, been gone so long i thought we lost ya!

find zero . the damper is engraved with lines up to at least 30, or at least it better be for $15,000 friggen dollars .  :lmao:


 :lmao: :lmao:

Nah mate, father in law has been crook for a couple of months and has been in hospital past few weeks and after a heap of scans and tests turns out to be stage 4 lung cancer and he is basically riddled with it. So been a bit busy.

Having a crack at the car today to take the mind of things.  :thumb:


Other question will i need/or should i get new bolts for the manifold ? There ARP, just wasn't sure if they stretch like head bolts etc..
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 21, 2016, 07:01:37 pm
.
yeah, that sucks.

the arp bolts are fine to reuse.

we will have to make a step by step reassembly when you are ready but you need to figure out a cam so your car isnt sitting disassembled for weeks.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: trav68 on February 21, 2016, 09:05:10 pm
Why are you so pre-occupied finding exact TDC during tear down?

During degreeing you will need to find exact TDC plus you will need to verify that the balancer markings line up with the timing pointer correctly ( not just with a sharpie mark!).  Hopefully, the original engine builder did this but if not you may need a timing pointer with adjustment due to the different balancer configurations and timing pointer locations on windsors. You need to be able to set timing (ignition) accurately off the balancer markings come start up.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 21, 2016, 10:58:35 pm
Why are you so pre-occupied finding exact TDC during tear down?

During degreeing you will need to find exact TDC plus you will need to verify that the balancer markings line up with the timing pointer correctly ( not just with a sharpie mark!).  Hopefully, the original engine builder did this but if not you may need a timing pointer with adjustment due to the different balancer configurations and timing pointer locations on windsors. You need to be able to set timing (ignition) accurately off the balancer markings come start up.


I was just following Barn's advice.


So in a nutshell am i setting the balancer at 0, exact TDC or using the engine builders mark of TDC ?


Reason i asked is i figured that if i line the pointer up with the engine builders TDC mark than it will go back on the same as when it was built. As im more than likely going to use the same cam again
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: trav68 on February 21, 2016, 11:28:54 pm
I am not sure of his reasoning but for tear down it does not really matter but will assist in initial setup of your degree wheel.

Ultimately, they should all be one and the same (if your engine builder bothered to setup timing pointer accurately) but in the process of degreeing the cam you will locate TDC accurately, finish the degreeing process and ensure you rotate the engine to TDC at the very end, then with balancer on crank ensure the timing pointer points to 0 deg (i.e don't rotate your crank between finishing the degreeing and verifying balancer/pointer relationship).

Lunati website has a pretty decent step by step cam degree procedure from memory have a look.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 22, 2016, 09:10:28 am
.
The damper is already marked at TDC with a sharpie, not sure if it's at zero i can't read the numbers well enough. Do i run with the engine builders markings or ignore them and find 0.
find zero . the damper is engraved with lines up to at least 30, or at least it better be for $15,000 friggen dollars .  :lmao:
So in a nutshell am i setting the balancer at 0, exact TDC or using the engine builders mark of TDC ?

Why are you asking this question again after I already answered it?  :toetapping:

If you put it on ZERO now, you will NOT have to try and find ZERO when you install the cam.  :thumb:

If you can NOT find ZERO with the damper installed, there is a problem that needs to be addressed sooner or later.

 :agree:

My instructions were written specifically to make this job as easy as possible for someone like you to whom has never done anything like this.  :santa:

If you vary from them in any single way, you may very well make things far more difficult.  :kickass:

The builders mark means absolutely nothing because you are installing a different cam.  :smash:

If the damper on your $15,000.00 engine does NOT have any timing marks on it at all, it has to be the biggest pos on the planet, because even the Chinese dampers have timing marks on them .  :lmao:
.
 

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 22, 2016, 09:40:35 am
.
........................(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQKpkIRTV4a-R72lNs7-M1f8OgRsTB2jSZ4Itxln5Gr4_YxTDoRfQ)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 22, 2016, 09:41:58 am
.
...........................(http://images.media-allrecipes.com/userphotos/250x250/113659.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 22, 2016, 09:44:17 am


If you put it on ZERO now, you will NOT have to try and find ZERO when you install the cam.  :thumb:



The builders mark means absolutely nothing because you are installing a different cam.  :smash:



This is what i wanted to know..

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 22, 2016, 09:47:03 am
This is what i wanted to know..

 :cheers:

ok

................(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR5DFHOD1G0JAQfGlH1rYtNzzlvAyA9Uk9_cYIWTaHmHhqDRd-i)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 22, 2016, 10:22:09 am
.
post the info on the rear end of the cam or post a photo of it.

post a photo of your dyno sheet.

the cam below is not really huge.


is yours a non roller solid lifter cam?

how much do you want to spend on a cam and lifters? . roller cams are nice but pricey.

do you want to stick with a solid lifter cam?

what engine, heads, rear gears and trans do you have?

what did you like about that cam?

what did you not like about it?

do you want better idle and more bottom end and less top end?


"Found a couple of dyno sheets and it has the cam listed as being

Cam 230/230 Tappets 20 int 20 exh

Not sure if thats accurate though or just something generic they enter.

The only cam that looks to match that is this, but i guess mine could be a custom grind as you said or just not listed anymore.

Part Number:   none
Grind Number:   BOSS 290R
Intake Duration (gross):   290
Exhaust Duration (gross):   290
Intake Duration (.050”):   230
Exhaust Duration (.050”):   230
Intake Valve Lift*:   .517"
Exhaust Valve Lift*:   .517"
Lobe Separation:   114
Intake Valve Lash:   .024"
Exhaust Valve Lash:    .024"
RPM Range:
2500-6500
*Based on 1.73 Rocker Arm Ratio"   
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 22, 2016, 10:44:13 am
.
post the info on the rear end of the cam or post a photo of it.

post a photo of your dyno sheet.


what engine, heads, rear gears and trans do you have?

what did you like about that cam?

what did you not like?

do you want better idle and more bottom end and less bottom end?


"Found a couple of dyno sheets and it has the cam listed as being

Cam 230/230 Tappets 20 int 20 exh

Not sure if thats accurate though or just something generic they enter.

The only cam that looks to match that is this, but i guess mine could be a custom grind as you said or just not listed anymore.

Part Number:   none
Grind Number:   BOSS 290R
Intake Duration (gross):   290
Exhaust Duration (gross):   290
Intake Duration (.050”):   230
Exhaust Duration (.050”):   230
Intake Valve Lift*:   .517"
Exhaust Valve Lift*:   .517"
Lobe Separation:   114
Intake Valve Lash:   .024"
Exhaust Valve Lash:    .024"
RPM Range:
2500-6500
*Based on 1.73 Rocker Arm Ratio"


Engine builders are still trying to find the build info (been nearly 3 weeks now) so chances of that happening are f#$@K all i'd say at this point.

Emailed Schneider, apparently there is a number stamped on the front of the cam which will allow them to give me the cam details.


363
Dart heads
Close ratio top loader
Solid roller

I was hoping to just stick with the same cam if i can to avoid having to change as little as possible.

No idea on diff gearing, car was setup with more of a track focus if that helps at all.


I didn't really have an issue with how it ran with that cam, before it shat the bed of course. It had a nice choppy idle, the bottom end felt really strong and it pulled consistently up the rev range.

When it's running as it should be, it's a weapon.

Idle at cold sometimes was a pain in the ass but that might have had more to do with the other issues i was having, took quite a few cranks to wind over sometimes.

I'll put up the dyno sheet i have soon

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 22, 2016, 10:48:40 am
so in other words, you would be perfectly happy with the same performance you had before it blew up and you dont want a hydraulic or roller cam?

you can just order that same cam if that's what you want.

Dart does not list any heads for a cleveland.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 22, 2016, 11:24:00 am
Was a solid roller ,now is a solid roller ?  Solid roller  :thud: .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 22, 2016, 11:52:22 am
so in other words, you would be perfectly happy with the same performance you had before it blew up and you dont want a hydraulic or roller cam?

you can just order that same cam if that's what you want.

Dart does not list any heads for a cleveland.

Well apart from the "blowing up " part i didn't have any issues.

I can only guess it was more my lack of attention that caused the cam and dizzy failure.

But im open to other sugestions of course, but id like to keep costs down as much as possible. I'm hemorrhaging cash with the reno, $40k over budget  :lmao: :ouch: :ouch:

So i figured replacing the cam with the same one was the simplest and cost effective solution.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 22, 2016, 12:01:55 pm
I don't like solid rollers cams for street use ,hyd roller all the way BUT a bit less HP
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 22, 2016, 01:17:57 pm
.

ok, once again, we need to know EXACTLY what your heads are . as i mentioned, dart does not list them.

who makes them?

what is the model?

are they plastic or aluminum or prefabulated amulite?

need to know how far your cam would rev.

need to know how far you want to rev a cam.

since you were perfectly happy with the one you had, i would be hesitant to vary too much from its specs.

that schneider cam is $374.00 usd . Most of the solid cams from other companies are less than HALF that price, . Below is just a partial list.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/camshafts/make/ford/engine-size/5-8l-351/engine-family/ford-cleveland/cam-style/mechanical-flat-tappet?N=4294891642%2B4294951343%2B4294951338%2B4294948110%2B4294891005&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending (http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/camshafts/make/ford/engine-size/5-8l-351/engine-family/ford-cleveland/cam-style/mechanical-flat-tappet?N=4294891642%2B4294951343%2B4294951338%2B4294948110%2B4294891005&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 22, 2016, 02:15:44 pm
Isn't he talking 363 Windsor here  .?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 22, 2016, 02:29:54 pm
.

ok, once again, we need to know EXACTLY what your heads are . as i mentioned, dart does not list them.

I'll pester the engine builder again. I moved not long after the car was built so a lot of miscellaneous paperwork etc went walk about.

who makes them?

what is the model?

I have a very vague recollection that they maybe Dart Pro 1 Aluminium heads. I emphasize vague.


need to know how far your cam would rev.

I was told 8,000rpm as that was what the car was going to be used for. I had the pill to limit it to 6,000 on the street and another for 8,000 on track days.

need to know how far you want to rev a cam.

Well, i don't think i've ever rung its neck to 8,000 on the street, generally run out of road by then. Happy to just leave it as is i suppose

since you were perfectly happy with the one you had, i would be hesitant to vary too much from its specs.

that schneider cam is $374.00 usd . Most of the solid cams from other companies are less than HALF that price, . Below is just a partial list.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/camshafts/make/ford/engine-size/5-8l-351/engine-family/ford-cleveland/cam-style/mechanical-flat-tappet?N=4294891642%2B4294951343%2B4294951338%2B4294948110%2B4294891005&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending (http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/camshafts/make/ford/engine-size/5-8l-351/engine-family/ford-cleveland/cam-style/mechanical-flat-tappet?N=4294891642%2B4294951343%2B4294951338%2B4294948110%2B4294891005&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending)


I assume that's expensive for a cam ? I don't mind paying the extra money if it's worth it for added quality and most of all durability.

I'd rather pony up the extra coin for a better product than run the risk of another cam failure or worse complete engine failure for the sake of a few dollars.

I just haven't heard of Schneider before but they seem to have been around for awhile.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 22, 2016, 03:16:48 pm
Isn't he talking 363 Windsor here  .?

I have no friggen idea, however, the cam he has is listed for a Cleveland . Perhaps some day he will let us know.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 22, 2016, 03:20:38 pm
I assume that's expensive for a cam ?
:lmao:


I don't mind paying the extra money if it's worth it for added quality and most of all durability.
Well that cam is already twice as much as all the others, and is by far the most expensive flat tappet one you can buy, so how much more could you possibly spend on one .  :lmao:
 

I'd rather pony up the extra coin for a better product than run the risk of another cam failure or worse complete engine failure for the sake of a few dollars.
Well, you definitely can NOT possibly spend more money on a flat tappet cam than that one if that means anything .  :lmao:


I just haven't heard of Schneider before but they seem to have been around for awhile.
I think it is a German Deli that makes camshafts out of left over Bratwurst.  :lmao:

...(http://www.ruhrmemories.ca/ruhrnostalgia/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/bratwurst-1.jpg)
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 22, 2016, 04:01:22 pm
I have no friggen idea, however, the cam he has is listed for a Cleveland . Perhaps some day he will let us know.

Ahh, i was going off some specs on the dyno sheet and thats the closet thing on there site.

Once i pull the cam give them the number ill know more.


Todos a entender ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 22, 2016, 04:06:22 pm
:lmao:

Well that cam is already twice as much as all the others, and is by far the most expensive flat tappet one you can buy, so how much more could you possibly spend on one .  :lmao:
 
Well, you definitely can NOT possibly spend more money on a flat tappet cam than that one if that means anything .  :lmao:

I think it is a German Deli that makes camshafts out of left over Bratwurst.  :lmao:

...(http://www.ruhrmemories.ca/ruhrnostalgia/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/bratwurst-1.jpg)
.


Right,

I get it, Mucho dinero.

I'll pull the cam, get specs. Look for potential alternative here if possible.


Barn i hope you google those images because it's a worrying thought that you just happen to have a bun with a big sausage hanging out of it on your computer.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 22, 2016, 04:24:56 pm

Barn i hope you google those images because it's a worrying thought that you just happen to have a bun with a big sausage hanging out of it on your computer.  :thumb:

It's better that I posted a photo of it hanging out of those buns instead of the other buns it was hanging out of before that one .  :thumb:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 22, 2016, 04:37:54 pm
 
It's better that I posted a photo of it hanging out of those buns instead of the other buns it was hanging out of before that one .  :thumb:

 :lmao: :lmao:

 :sick:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 22, 2016, 04:47:11 pm
.
.......................................................... Snausages...yumm!

..........................................................(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSJDGm-keZ25pwRytePVREkWo_xlLxBvyVk5nKVjj0mKzVzYXCXRr83OGzq)
............................(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRKIt3YdQv66Z9Ja3SMK_mzW8l_pw5hbIxFx6cGMip188lE2cxDfQ)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: mert on February 22, 2016, 04:50:01 pm
Quote
that schneider cam is $374.00 usd . Most of the solid cams from other companies are less than HALF that price, . Below is just a partial list.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/camshafts/make/ford/engine-size/5-8l-351/engine-family/ford-cleveland/cam-style/mechanical-flat-tappet?N=4294891642%2B4294951343%2B4294951338%2B4294948110%2B4294891005&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending (http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/camshafts/make/ford/engine-size/5-8l-351/engine-family/ford-cleveland/cam-style/mechanical-flat-tappet?N=4294891642%2B4294951343%2B4294951338%2B4294948110%2B4294891005&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending)

Comparing apples to oranges, you listed mechanical flat tappets against the Schnieder solid roller... if you compare like-to-like the Summit cams of a similar style are about the same price.

http://www.summitracing.com/int/search/part-type/camshafts/make/ford/engine-size/5-8l-351/engine-family/ford-cleveland/cam-style/mechanical-roller-tappet?N=4294891642%2B4294951343%2B4294951338%2B4294948110%2B4294891440&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&retaillocation=int (http://www.summitracing.com/int/search/part-type/camshafts/make/ford/engine-size/5-8l-351/engine-family/ford-cleveland/cam-style/mechanical-roller-tappet?N=4294891642%2B4294951343%2B4294951338%2B4294948110%2B4294891440&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&retaillocation=int)


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 22, 2016, 05:00:10 pm
Comparing apples to oranges, you listed mechanical flat tappets against the Schnieder solid roller... if you compare like-to-like the Summit cams of a similar style are about the same price.

http://www.summitracing.com/int/search/part-type/camshafts/make/ford/engine-size/5-8l-351/engine-family/ford-cleveland/cam-style/mechanical-roller-tappet?N=4294891642%2B4294951343%2B4294951338%2B4294948110%2B4294891440&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&retaillocation=int (http://www.summitracing.com/int/search/part-type/camshafts/make/ford/engine-size/5-8l-351/engine-family/ford-cleveland/cam-style/mechanical-roller-tappet?N=4294891642%2B4294951343%2B4294951338%2B4294948110%2B4294891440&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&retaillocation=int)


I think ive confused myself and everyone.

It's definitely a solid roller.


I'll just get the thing out so everyone isnt guessing due to my ineptitude  :thud:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 22, 2016, 05:14:25 pm

I think ive confused myself and everyone.

It's definitely a solid roller.
I'll just get the thing out so everyone isnt guessing due to my ineptitude  :thud:

He was referring to me comparing the price of the BOSS290R cam, which appears to be a to
roller, to the non roller cams.

When I did a quick search for the Snausage cam, below is where i got the info which does not say roller . Their non roller cams are much less.

Schneider Racing Cams - Solid Roller Lifter Camshafts
schneidercams.com › Camshafts › Ford › Ford V-8s › Ford 335 Series V-8
Results 1 - 6 of 6 - BOSS 290R 351C Solid Lifter Camshaft. Your Price: $374.99. BOSS 290R 351C Solid Lifter Camshaft RPM Range: 2500-6500.


What do your lifters say on the cross bar?
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 22, 2016, 05:20:27 pm
I hope you don't tell us  the lifters failed ( needle rollers and flattened the roller)  then damaged the cam lobes . Please don't tell us that .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 22, 2016, 05:39:43 pm
I hope you don't tell us  the lifters failed ( needle rollers and flattened the roller)  then damaged the cam lobes . Please don't tell us that .

I'm still waitin for him to tell us if it is a Windsor or a Cleveland....or a Chevy .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 22, 2016, 06:21:15 pm
I'm still waitin for him to tell us if it is a Windsor or a Cleveland....or a Chevy .  :lmao:

Hey, i almost bought a 545ci 64 Galaxie a few months ago.

Imagine all the stuff i could've broken with that...  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 22, 2016, 06:28:09 pm
Hey, i almost bought a 545ci 64 Galaxie a few months ago.

Imagine all the stuff i could've broken with that...  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Sorry...only one repair thread per customer .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 22, 2016, 10:18:29 pm
Here's an initial dyno sheet i found i do have others somewhere that were from further tuning.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 22, 2016, 10:24:35 pm
Though it would have made more power then that. 363 will normally make that with a Holley.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 22, 2016, 10:35:07 pm
Though it would have made more power then that. 363 will normally make that with a Holley.

It does, im 99 % sure that's the first dyno run after the build.

I'll try and find the others.

Once its all back together ill get it back on the dyno
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 05:34:33 am
ok, without more info, it is impossible to suggest a cam.


ENGINE

We have no idea what your engine is . 363 could be a Windsor or a Cleveland.


DYNO

If you have the heads below, there ain't no way your engine makes that much hp.

Was this on an engine dyno or a rear wheel dyno?


CYLINDER HEADS

We have no idea what your cylinder heads are . Dart does not make a "BOSS 302 head, therefore, if your head is from Dart, and it is cast iron and not aluminum, it is a total pile of crap for a $15,000.00 engine and you will get probably 60 more hp by simply bolting on some AFR 195's and it will haul ass.

http://www.dartheads.com/products/aitdownloadablefiles/download/aitfile/aitfile_id/74/ (http://www.dartheads.com/products/aitdownloadablefiles/download/aitfile/aitfile_id/74/)


EXHAUST

We have no idea what size your headers or tail pipes are . The dyno sheet says 1.75" pipes . You need to measure the diameter of your tail pipes . If they are 1.75", they are incapable of making the power numbers the dyno sheet says.


CAM

You do have the Snausage 290R cam . They make one for the Windsors and one for the Clevelands . Both are the same solid rollers and the same spec but are designed to fit two different styles of engines.

If you have the heads mentioned above, that cam is around the biggest I would can run because those heads don't flow nearly enough to use a bigger cam with.

Also, I would NOT even use that cam if you have those heads because of the incredibly bad exhaust to intake flow ratio . I would use a dual pattern cam.


GEAR RATIO

Block the front wheels.

Jack the rear up by the center of the diff.

Rotate a tire and see if the other tire turns in the SAME direction.

If both tires turn in the same direction, turn a tire until the valve stem is exactly at hr bottom.

Put a dot on the side of the drive shaft near the u joint.

Count how many times the drive shaft turns as you turn the tire exactly on full revolution.

It will most likely not turn an even number of turns . It may turn 3 1/4 turns [3.25 ratio] or 3 1/2 turns [3.50 ratio] or 3 3/4 [3.73 ratio] or almost 4 turns [3.91 ratio].

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 23, 2016, 08:56:02 am
Is this the same problem engine as before ? . 363 Windsor ,dart  pro 1 alloy heads , 11.5 comp , solid roller  ,webers , top loader etc,etc .   It had running rich problems ,dizzy problems ,cam problems and built by a well known engine builder .  Unless its going to be a track car  I would toss the solid roller and run a hyd roller but you will loose maybe 40 HP and limit your revs down to around 6500 rpm .  I see so many failures of solid roller cams on street used engines unless they are checked and reset every week and when not in use the rockers backed off till race day . Valve springs have to be spot on 100% of the time , oil system has to be 100% as does the oil .  If you want to pull more revs than 6500 rpm without all the mucking around maybe go old school a flat tappet solid cam   :thud:   I will most likely get a  :kickass: for saying that . 
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 09:13:40 am
this is the $15,000.00 engine with the webers, but nothing makes since because he says dart boss heads and the dyno sheet says boss dart heads etc, but my guess is that it is the one you describe.

i found a good cam from crane and apd sells crane parts and there is a crane facility in oz or he can buy it in the US and ship.

i will post the info shortly on his Snausage scam and the crane cam and you wont believe what Snausage did.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 23, 2016, 09:31:25 am
I'd just get a Comp HR extreme energy cam, custom ground of 110 or 108  rather then 112 centers and call it job done, something with around min 235 deg @ 50 that will be fine to mid 6's and be fatter in the mid range
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 09:32:48 am
I'd just get a Comp HR extreme energy cam, custom ground of 110 or 108  rather then 112 centers and call it job done, something with around min 235 deg @ 50 that will be fine to mid 6's and be fatter in the mid range

His Snausage cam has a whopping 114 lsa.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 09:33:24 am
.
Fitzy . Post the number on the end of the cam . I can call Snausage and see what they did . I just talked to Snausage and they said they can make that grind with 3 different lobe/valve lifts, so yours could be any of those.


DART makes a 210 cc and a 225 cc Pro 1 aluminum head . Any idea if yours are one of these?

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 23, 2016, 09:45:24 am
.
Fitzy . Post the number on the end of the cam . I can call Snausage and see what they did . I just talked to Snausage and they said they can make that grind with 3 different lobe/valve lifts, so yours could be any of those.

thats kind of like a blower cam LSA or injection.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 23, 2016, 09:47:52 am
Ok, i may have caused some confusion here so i apologize.


Ford racing Windsor 302 block (363ci)

11.5 Compression

Dart Pro 1 heads - Ported etc etc, not sure of exact specs

T&D shaft mount rockers - Not sure of specs, 1.70

Callies crank - Pretty sure it's a Magnum crank

Oliver rods - Not sure of specs

CP Pistons - Not sure of specs

Schneider Solid roller cam - not sure of specs until i pull the cam and get the serial number


I'll try and get the cam out over the next couple of days, have a few things on.


I'll measure the diff ratio and pipes.



I phoned the builder again this morning, there still looking for the paperwork etc only been 3 weeks now. So its all guess work at the moment which doesn't help any of you, i apologize.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 09:52:42 am
thats kind of like a blower cam LSA or injection.

Yeah, I wouldn't use it, AND if it is their standard grind, it only has a pathetic .480" valve lift with 1.6 rockers, and the base DART 210 cc Pro 1 heads flow a purported 305 and 208 @ .600.

I seriously doubt [or seriously hope] that the engine builder didn't put a cam with only .480" lift in that thing, however, if they did, and Fitzy already thinks it's fast, just imagine the surprise he's gonna have with a real cam in there.



Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 09:55:52 am
.
Hey, nothin to apologize for, take your time.

Maybe call the engine builder and ask them if they would have used a custom Snausage grind or if they just bought one out of the catalog . If it is out of their catalog, we already have the info.

Do you want to keep the solid roller?

If you have high valve spring pressures, the hydro lifters will cost you $700.00 usd . If you don't have high spring pressures, the lifters will cost you $350.00 plus shipping.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 23, 2016, 10:04:10 am
Alright these are rough OD measurements on the headers and exhaust with verniers.

Headers are 1.85 then out to 3" for about say 2 foot then expands out to 4-4.5" pipe about 1 foot long each then back down to 3" into the mufflers and 2.5" out the back
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 10:08:06 am
.
YOUR HP NUMBERS FROM AN ENGINE DYNO OR REAR WHEEL DYNO?


Alright these are rough OD measurements on the headers and exhaust with verniers.

Headers are 1.85 then out to 3" for about say 2 foot then expands out to 4-4.5" pipe about 1 foot long each then back down to 3" into the mufflers and 2.5" out the back

Ok, that is totally retarded unless the headers have merge collectors or unless that big pipe is actually resonators.

Exactly what headers are they?

Do you have a cross over tube?

What mufflers do you have?

Are the mufflers straight thru?

If they don't have merge collectors, I would have a 3" pipe come off the header that will make the distance from where the 4 pipes go into 1 to the end of the extension around 18" . The extension is called a collector [not a merge collector] . Then have it taper down to 2 3/4 all the way back with straight thru Magnaflow mufflers.

.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 23, 2016, 10:17:35 am
Ok, that is totally retarded unless they have merge collectors.

Exactly what headers are they

Do you have a cross over tube?

what mufflers do you have?

are they straight thru?

I would have a 3" pipe come off the header that will make the distance from where the 4 pipes go into the


It was all custom, they don't do exhausts anymore and someone local who does all there cars and race cars does it.

After the headers the pipes bend inwards and meet just before the larger 4-4.5" pipes, i can't really tell if they actually merge into one another or are just tacked together unless i jack up the car.

The mufflers are Hurricane.

I'll get a photo of the system


I was thinking of going with a side exit system after all this is sorted anyway. But that's a story for another day.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 10:24:33 am
.
ARE YOUR HP NUMBERS FROM AN ENGINE DYNO OR REAR WHEEL DYNO?

ARE YOUR HEADS 210 OR 225 CC?


Side exhaust will be deafening.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 23, 2016, 10:28:02 am
YOUR HP NUMBERS FROM AN ENGINE DYNO OR REAR WHEEL DYNO?

Definitely wheel dyno

ARE YOUR HEADS 210 OR 225 CC?

I rang about 10 mins ago and left a message with the office person, sent them another email.

All i know for now is there PRO 1 CNC


Pissing me off now, it's over 3 weeks and multiple requests. Either they can't be assed or have no clue where it is.

Side exhaust will be deafening.

Yeah that was my main concern

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 11:01:05 am
.
Ok, all you need to do is measure the size of the intake port on the heads.

Either that cam has more lift than their stock one or that dyno is lying big time cuz you ain't gonna get that much power with only 230 duration @ .050 and only .480 valve lift.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 23, 2016, 12:35:23 pm
Right, just so im on the same page.

I'm rotating the engine till the 1st lifter on the left is all the way up, then keep rotating till it begins to move back down until i hit 0.

Yeah ?

I know i'm frustrating  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 12:55:22 pm
.
Nope, the first valve is the exhaust . The second is the intake.

Crank until the second valve back goes down then comes back up, then continue to rotate clockwise until you see marks on the damper and line 0 up with the pointer.

I have cam info . This will be fun.

.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 23, 2016, 12:59:59 pm
Found the Dart head part number

13071020

Pro 1 CNC 210cc


Cam info i just got via email is

230 @ .50 int and exhaust

.365 lobe lift

110 LS



Do i have to remove all the webers from the manifold ? was hoping to leave them all on.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: lukep6470 on February 23, 2016, 01:11:22 pm
I know on my weber manifold it is soo much easier to pull the induction off the top to get at the two middle bolts on each side.   
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 23, 2016, 01:13:38 pm
I know on my weber manifold it is soo much easier to pull the induction off the top to get at the two middle bolts on each side.


Ahh this is what i was just about to ask because they look like a mother to get at  :lmao:

 :cheers: :cheers:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 01:16:00 pm
Found the Dart head part number

13071020

Pro 1 CNC 210cc


Cam info i just got via email is

230 @ .50 int and exhaust

.365 lobe lift

110 LS

Do i have to remove all the webers from the manifold ? was hoping to leave them all on.

Ok, xlnt . I will post comparative cam info in less than 30 minutes.


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 23, 2016, 02:14:48 pm
All good, managed to get the 4 nuts off without taking the carbs off.  :pepper: :pepper:

Manifold is off.


Lifters are from shizer housen too Barn
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 02:16:26 pm

Lifters are from shizer housen too Barn

WTF?

 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 02:17:26 pm
.
Do you mean Snausage Housen?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: trav68 on February 23, 2016, 02:36:28 pm
That lobe lift (0.365 x 1.7 = 0.620 ) sounds more relevant to this engine/dyno numbers than the 0.480 someone mentioned above.....
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 23, 2016, 02:50:42 pm
.
Do you mean Snausage Housen?

 :thumb:


My main concern is compatibility with the existing engine. I'd like to avoid having to switch to different lifters, springs, etc etc.

New cam, back together, tune and  :burnout: :burnout:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 03:05:05 pm
:thumb:

My main concern is compatibility with the existing engine. I'd like to avoid having to switch to different lifters, springs, etc etc.

New cam, back together, tune and  :burnout: :burnout:

Still need the diff ratio.

You will not have to change anything other than possibly injector jetting with any of the cams below.

Snausage can make that cam and send it to you if you want but it is not what I would use.

You can order other cams from the US.

You can buy many cams in oz . In oz, VPW Warehouse sells some Comp and Cranes and APD sells Cranes and Crane may sell direct there.

Ok, it looks like they could have paid $1200.00 usd less for a set of AFR 205 fully cnc ported heads and gotten quite a bit more power out of it . DART says your heads die out at .600" valve lift . AFR 205 heads die out at around .700" valve lift, and have more flow.

ENGINE

363 stroker
Pro 1 210 cc aluminum heads . valves 2.05 1.60 . flow 305 208 @ .600" lift . 68% ex to in flow.
Headers 1 3/4" into 3"
Intake has 4 huge Webers
Compression 11.5:1
Top loader 4 speed with unknown ratio
Diff gears unknown but will post later


Here's some solid roller cam options . I would use the Comp 35-770-8 . It will have around 500 crank hp and will do the 1/4 mile in around 10.8 seconds if you can get traction .  :lmao:


YOUR SNAUSAGE IS ... 290 290 . 230 230 . lobes 365 365 . rocker 1.7 . 620 620 . lsa 114


These are the alternative cams that will work for you . I would consider for your engine.

CRANE 448501 ...........  280 288 . 230 238 . lobes 338 350 . rocker 1.7 . 574 595 . lsa 110

CROWER 15458 ........... 280 288 . 232 242 . lobes 330 331 . rocker 1.7 . 561 562 . lsa 112

HOWARDS 220183-10 .. 269 275 . 237 243 . lobes 370 370 . rocker 1.7 . 629 629 . lsa 110

LUNATI 40350731 ........ 267 273 . 237 243 . lobes 367 385 . rocker 1.7 . 639 654 . lsa 110

HOWARDS 221313-10 .. 277 277 . 245 245   lobes 390 390 . rocker 1.7 . 663 663 . lsa 110

COMP CAMS 35-770-8 .. 274 280 . 236 242 . lobes 377 381 . rocker 1.7 . 641 648 . lsa 110

COMP CAMS 35-771-8 .. 280 286 . 242 248 . lobes 381 385 . rocker 1.7 . 648 654 . lsa 110 





Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 03:39:59 pm
Here it is in oz . $451.00 but i dont know if that is usd or aud.

http://vpw.com.au/Category/Index/401450 (http://vpw.com.au/Category/Index/401450)


$319.00 usd . $451.00 aud delivered to your door.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Comp-Cams-35-770-8-Xtreme-Energy-Mechanical-Roller-Camshaft-br-Ford-351W-1969-95-/200769339844?hash=item2ebec901c4:m:mL1eemFJVtGndU4pc-mr3fg (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Comp-Cams-35-770-8-Xtreme-Energy-Mechanical-Roller-Camshaft-br-Ford-351W-1969-95-/200769339844?hash=item2ebec901c4:m:mL1eemFJVtGndU4pc-mr3fg)


Here's that cam in a 363 Ford engine with what I think is ported RHS 215 heads and 2880 lbs.

10.15 @ 132.00 mph after the front tires come off the ground . Is that fast enough fer ya!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXFR2mhP0I8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXFR2mhP0I8)




.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: trav68 on February 23, 2016, 04:10:54 pm
VPW website prices are AUD and they are good to deal with.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 04:20:10 pm
VPW website prices are AUD and they are good to deal with.

Someone told me if I look at either their site or CHI's site from the US, the prices are shown in US dollars .  I guess if someone in oz looks at it we will know.

.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 23, 2016, 04:54:56 pm
Wow

Barn your a legend.

Have a Fosters on me  :cheers: :cheers:  :lmao:

Didn't get a chance to get the cam out, had a few things to do.

Manifold etc is off at least.

I'll work out the diff ratio first thing tomorrow morning.


So at this stage, narrowed down to this

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=918&sb=2 (http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=918&sb=2)

Any others out of that list that are worth considering ?

I know i really don't need a 9,000rpm engine for the street, i do want to do a few race days here and there so i guess a compromise there is fine.






Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 05:30:08 pm
Wow

Barn your a legend.

OK...wait for it...
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 05:31:00 pm
.
.........Yes...I am!

(http://www.divinerevelations.info/documents/jesus_pictures/jesus_027_small.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 05:57:36 pm

Any others out of that list that are worth considering ?

I know i really don't need a 9,000rpm engine for the street, i do want to do a few race days here and there so i guess a compromise there is fine.

There are some other good cams there but its basically impossible to explain what effect each one will have.

I based my choice on ALL your parts and your comment that you like the way your engine runs . The only way to make it run exactly like it did is to buy the Snausage gear breaker cam.

I can tell you that this cam will rev around the same as your previous cam but will have more mid range power and throttle response and a similar idle . It may have a tiny bit less bottom end but that's kinda hard for me to tell . If someone here has a desktop dyno, they could run both cams for us and tell us what the difference is.

Others will look at the list and will also make suggestions.

The next size down from that cam are the ones below which are both very similar . Both of those cams would basically lower the entire rpm range slightly like maybe 200 rpm.

HOWARDS 220183-10 .. 269 275 . 237 243 . lobes 370 370 . rocker 1.7 . 629 629 . lsa 110

LUNATI 40350731 ........ 267 273 . 237 243 . lobes 367 385 . rocker 1.7 . 639 654 . lsa 110

.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 23, 2016, 06:04:36 pm
There are some other good cams there but its basically impossible to explain what effect each one will have.

I based my choice on ALL your parts and your comment that you like the way your engine runs . The only way to make it run exactly like it did is to buy the Snausage gear breaker cam.

I can tell you that this cam will rev around the same as your previous cam but will have a more mid range power and throttle response and a similar idle.

Others will look at the list and will also make suggestions.
.

Well the snausage is off to the Fleischwolf.

Now the million dollar question.

What dizzy gear ???  :lmao: :lmao:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: trav68 on February 23, 2016, 06:38:29 pm
Mate if you are just doing occasional track days a hydraulic roller cam will be fine and save on the maintenance issues of a solid roller as a few others have mentioned.

In my mind solid roller, roll cages, oil coolers, slicks, aggressive tyre chewing alignments etc all go hand in hand ...and it won't be an (easily) road registerable beast that you want to cruise in. 

I have a custom comp hydraulic roller in my 347 that is pretty similar to the specs to the XR274R you linked to above and is a perfect weekend cruiser that sees some track action. My powerplant is a bit more basic than yours stock 302 block, SCAT cast rotating, Mahle forged 10.9:1 pistons, Trickflow 190 11R heads, RPM Airgap and Quickflow double pumper 750 ~ 380 rwhp. This setup is seriously quick and with no valvetrain maintenance worries.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 07:15:16 pm
Now the million dollar question.

What dizzy gear ???  :lmao: :lmao:

One that has all the teeth on it .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 07:18:25 pm
.

(http://gourmetgame.com.au/wp-content/uploads/Gourmet-Game_-Kangaroo-Burger-530x420.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 23, 2016, 07:18:44 pm
One that has all the teeth on it .  :lmao:


I think comp recommend the composite gear
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 23, 2016, 07:19:18 pm
.

(http://gourmetgame.com.au/wp-content/uploads/Gourmet-Game_-Kangaroo-Burger-530x420.jpg)

Hey, they aren't bad either  :drool:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 23, 2016, 07:22:20 pm
Mate if you are just doing occasional track days a hydraulic roller cam will be fine and save on the maintenance issues of a solid roller as a few others have mentioned.

In my mind solid roller, roll cages, oil coolers, slicks, aggressive tyre chewing alignments etc all go hand in hand ...and it won't be an (easily) road registerable beast that you want to cruise in. 

I have a custom comp hydraulic roller in my 347 that is pretty similar to the specs to the XR274R you linked to above and is a perfect weekend cruiser that sees some track action. My powerplant is a bit more basic than yours stock 302 block, SCAT cast rotating, Mahle forged 10.9:1 pistons, Trickflow 190 11R heads, RPM Airgap and Quickflow double pumper 750 ~ 380 rwhp. This setup is seriously quick and with no valvetrain maintenance worries.


Cheers Trav.

I do like the idea of less maintenance but i assume ill have to swap existing parts out again.

It only sees the road a few days a month here and there. Something ill have to weigh up.

Thing has cost me a small african nations gdp over the past couple of years. Mrs is about to string me up  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 07:56:20 pm
.
The comp cam is a selectively austempered ductile iron core or SADI . It does NOT require a bronze gear, and if your current cam is a SADI also, it should not have had a bronze gear because the bronze gear might wear extremely fast or break .  :lmao:

If you post a close up photo of your cam, we can tell you what it is.

You can use a hardened steel, melonized steel or cast iron gear with your cam . The melonized gear is probably the best . I think Comp, Crane, and Lunati make the melo ones.

 :bow: . (https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRunom8rA83HVddJSyM3Kzjrzmjf4XWVz4KiKeOOElgifrcb0mS)

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 08:15:43 pm
.
HIGH VOLUME OIL PUMP

If you have one, you might want to yank it out . You can probably run a standard Mellings pump and buy a 60 60 psi spring for it.

Then use 15w-40 oil.



Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 23, 2016, 08:17:48 pm
Have you taken the lifters out yet ?  .they need a full inspection ,then when you pull the cam it needs an inspection also for lobe damage to see if there was a problem .  Spring pressures need to be matched to the new cam also and even if the spring pressure are the same you should get them checked as its been sitting around for a while .  Tappet clearances and valve spring pressures will need constant checking with a solid roller . I can't believe you won't go hyd roller ,but yes you will have to change the valve springs or there spring pressure .  With the hyd roller its really set and forget ,and you can drive on the street when you like . 
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 08:25:50 pm
.
you can remove one spring with the heads on, but you need to rent a tool, then screw a detachable compression gauge hose into the spark plug hole then hook up a compressor to it with the piston at tdc and the car in gear with the e brake on.

the only concern is that your springs might have gotten a little soft or are a little weak for the comp cam but if it ran fine before at high rpm, it should be fine now but it definitely won't hurt to check.

the other thing you could do is see if the idiots know the part number of the springs they used or if thy bought the heads with the springs in them.
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 23, 2016, 08:30:20 pm
.
The comp cam is a selectively austempered ductile iron core or SADI . It does NOT require a bronze gear, and if your current cam is a SADI also, it should not have had a bronze gear because the bronze gear might wear extremely fast or break .  :lmao:

If you post a close up photo of your cam, we can tell you what it is.

You can use a hardened steel, melonized steel or cast iron gear with your cam . The melonized gear is probably the best . I think Comp, Crane, and Lunati make the melo ones.

 :bow: . (https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRunom8rA83HVddJSyM3Kzjrzmjf4XWVz4KiKeOOElgifrcb0mS)

Comp say you can use the melonized steel gear on the -9 steel billet shafts as well now. MSD now sell the Pro billets with them fitted. I personally would pay the extra and get the Comp cam ground on a steel billet they will take much a higher spring load if you are going to rev it hard. Comp will grind what ever you ask for about $350 on a steel blank.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 23, 2016, 08:30:34 pm
Its a solid roller so spring pressures are going to be very high .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 23, 2016, 08:35:36 pm
Its a solid roller so spring pressures are going to be very high .

Id look at what diameter they are, and if he uses a quieter cam drop the rate some. Trickflow sell springs pretty cheap, they are actually PAC racing springs and they are cheaper then buying them direct as Pac springs I got a set a little while back 145 or 150 cant recall, on the seat about $140 I think they were.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 23, 2016, 08:46:39 pm
http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=CC&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=435M (http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=CC&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=435M)

https://www.semashow.com/sites/default/files/comp_cams_melonized_distributor_gears.pdf (https://www.semashow.com/sites/default/files/comp_cams_melonized_distributor_gears.pdf)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 09:02:05 pm
Comp say you can use the melonized steel gear on the -9 steel billet shafts as well now. MSD now sell the Pro billets with them fitted.

Yeah, I took a look and Crane and Lunati do make them also . Crane discontinued them for a while but after Comp Cams bought them, they started making them again but I think they are different than the Comp Cams ones . The old cranes were really nice . Lunati also makes a gear cal;ed an Ever Wear which is also steel and compatible with every cam but it is $20.00 less than their melonzed gear . I talked to Lunati about it before but couldn't get much info . I will look into therm a bit more tomorrow..

I'm also thinking that there are two different types of Melonizing  One makes the gear black and one makes it kind of greenish which is the same color as the OEM gears which is the color of the old Crane gear.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 09:04:00 pm
Id look at what diameter they are, and if he uses a quieter cam drop the rate some. Trickflow sell springs pretty cheap, they are actually PAC racing springs and they are cheaper then buying them direct as Pac springs I got a set a little while back 145 or 150 cant recall, on the seat about $140 I think they were.

The Cam I suggested has more .020" more lift and steeper ramps, lol.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 09:07:15 pm
http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=CC&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=435M (http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=CC&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=435M)

https://www.semashow.com/sites/default/files/comp_cams_melonized_distributor_gears.pdf (https://www.semashow.com/sites/default/files/comp_cams_melonized_distributor_gears.pdf)

Those have to be photos of their cast gears even though it says melo, because they look so crappy . If that's really their melo gear, I wouldn't use it.


Ok, I just looked and they look the same as the MSD gear so those are their melonized ones.


.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 23, 2016, 09:19:59 pm
Mallory have been selling most distributors with Melo gears for a couple of years.  I see Crane make Holden small block gear as well which is handy to know. A mate wants to build a Blue meanie VK commodore with a 355, & injected VN heads
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 23, 2016, 09:32:05 pm
Hey Barnett a 355 vn headed engine ,cool hey .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 09:46:10 pm
Hey Barnett a 355 vn headed engine ,cool hey .

I have absolutely no friggen idea what the hell that is, and does VN stand for Very Nice .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 23, 2016, 09:55:45 pm
VN heads ,thought you knew everything ,google is your friend  :grin:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 23, 2016, 09:57:32 pm
VN is the model ID for a Holden commodore, it was the first year of high port heads on the fuel injected 308 small block. They are pretty sort after for 308 engines work pretty well, kind of hard to come by, other than that the early 70's pre smog heads are the next best fitted with Torana L34 valves, which is the same as the Formula 5000 open wheel Holden engines used. A 308 is not like an SBC, it kind of a cross between all GM small blocks
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 23, 2016, 10:05:34 pm
Gee thanks Shaun  :thud:  was hoping Barnett would have know idea what we were talking about .   :smile01:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 23, 2016, 10:51:58 pm
VN heads ,thought you knew everything ,google is your friend  :grin:
looks like i dont use it as much as some thought .lol . and i still have no idea what he ia talkin about
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 23, 2016, 11:14:57 pm
He is talking VN  model heads from a V8  5lt  :grin: .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 23, 2016, 11:15:50 pm
So much to take in... :ouch:

Comparing the current cam with say the suggested Comp cam, would it be more than likely they would have used stiffer springs?

Everything else seems to be high dollar parts so i cant see logic in scrimping on the springs etc.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 23, 2016, 11:22:05 pm
No not likely,  but you have to get the cam specs and spring specs for both cams . You might have to get the installed hight changed  .  This is very very important .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 23, 2016, 11:22:25 pm
Hey Barnett a 355 vn headed engine ,cool hey .

Had a VN Group A SS back in the day.

Until i found the mighty blue oval and was saved  :bow:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 23, 2016, 11:24:00 pm
No not likely,  but you have to get the cam specs and spring specs for both cams . You might have to get the installed hight changed  .  This is very very important .

Ffs,  :lmao:

It took me over 3 weeks to just get that cam info from them  :ouch:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 23, 2016, 11:24:55 pm
Its worth a few bucks now . The VN group A engine was a big deal for holden .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 23, 2016, 11:26:12 pm
If you have the cam number you can find the spring specs without talking to them . The valve  spring pressures and installed hight have to be checked and correct .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 05:05:09 am
fitzy . read my posts . i have your cam specs . i know what spring pressures the new cam needs . both cams can use the same springs . . your  engine ran fine before .  your engine  is still new so your springs should be fine but ask them if they used their own springs or bought the heads assembled and tell us what they say . i have the spring rate for the assembled heads . they have two different rates . if your heads came with the lighter rate springs, it probably wouldn't rev past 5500 rpm and would miss and pop . do not loose sleep over the springs, you have enough going on  . this should be fun instead of  being stressful.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 07:44:03 am
If you have the cam number you can find the spring specs without talking to them.

Unfortunately not in this case . Snausage has 3 optional lifts for the same cam number . The cams have a serial number that identifies them and only Snausage knows what the serial number means, however, the clowns sent Fitzy the lift for his cam yesterday so we now have all that info.

The cam I suggested has around .020" more lift and a slightly steeper ramp, so it is not dramatically different.

All I want now is a photo of his Snausage so I can see if it is steel or not . :lmao:



Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 09:57:27 am
.
Check the spring diameter . If the idiots bought the heads assembled and you have the smaller springs, you are screwed because they are even too light for your Snausage cam.

If they bought them assembled and you have the bigger springs, they are perfect for your app and could support even a slightly bigger cam.

diameter 1.437 . closed 130 @ 1.800 . open 330 @ 1.25 . coil bind @ 1.08 . max lift 620

diameter 1.550 . closed 195 @ 1.900 . open 456 @ 1.25 . coil bind @ 1.08 . max lift 650


 
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 11:52:14 am
I'm heading home shortly and ill pull the cam and we'll go from there
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 12:04:15 pm
I'm heading home shortly and ill pull the cam and we'll go from there

oh boy, more fun!  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 12:39:30 pm
oh boy, more fun!  :thumb:

Ive had the morning of my life today, swear the gods hate me.  :lmao:

Mrs was on the way to the hospital. Rings and says the car has died, coughing, no power and just died. Now this is a 3 week old $90k 200 series Landcruiser.

Get there doesn't even look like starting, checked a few things. Then i get a really really bad feeling....

I ask "did you put fuel in on your way"

Her "yes"

Me " what fuel ?"

Her " just what i normally put in "

I keep all reciepts for tax purposes and there we have it big ol tank of 98 OCTANE !!!!!!  :ouch:  :ouch:

So its on a flatbed back to Toyota, and im prety sure there is no warranty for stupidity.

No wonder a man drinks..

Fml  :cry: :cry:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 12:44:33 pm
.
So what is wrong with using 98 octane....unless it's a diesel.

Look on the bright side, with your newly acquired mechanical skills, you should easily be able to replace the engine .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 12:53:34 pm
.
So what is wrong with using 98 octane....unless it's a diesel.

Look on the bright side, with your newly acquired mechanical skills, you should easily be able to replace the engine .  :lmao:

Yes, V8 turbo diesel...

 :lmao: i can see this costing a bomb.  :cry:

Top it off she then wanted my car, not a chance.

Hyundai hire car for you champ  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 01:01:18 pm
Yes, V8 turbo diesel...

xlnt!

 
Top it off she then wanted my car, not a chance.

Well now that she knows to use diesel, perhaps she could put that in your gas powered car .   :thumb:


Hyundai hire car for you champ   :thumb:

ummm....better buy the additional insurance!  :lmao:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 01:13:32 pm
xlnt!

 
Well now that she knows to use diesel, perhaps she could put that in your gas powered car .   :thumb:



Ahh see, have her covered there diesel nozzle is larger and wont fit :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 01:19:43 pm
Alright, time to yank on this snausage.

Report in soon
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 01:29:00 pm
Alright, time to yank on this snausage.

Report in soon

OMG...please don't post photos.  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 02:02:30 pm
right,

well none of the bolts for the puller seem to fit the balancer  :lmao: :cry:

Threads too large or too small

Its a Romac balancer


 :ouch:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: trav68 on February 24, 2016, 02:15:12 pm
Get a piece of flat 6mm plate and match drill 3/4 holes to suit your pulley/balancer setup.

Thread in the balancer bolt 6 - 8 turns, put a spacer between the bolt head and the flat plate then screw the 3/4 pulley mount bolts (either 5/16" or 3/8" UNC I cant remember) in and use them as jacking bolts to jack off the balancer from crank snout.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 02:16:11 pm
.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/713eJLhkY0L._SX425_.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 02:20:46 pm
.
Take the bolts that held the pulley on to the store in your new Landcruiser and just get longer ones.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 02:22:31 pm
.
Take the bolts that held the pulley on to the store in your new Landcruiser...

 .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 02:24:41 pm
.  :lmao:

 :thud:

I'm ready to shank someone today  :cry:  :toetapping:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 02:36:37 pm
I'm ready to shank someone today  :cry:  :toetapping:
Won't ya first need a vehicle that actually runs so you can go find somebody to do that to?


OMG Barn....that's brutal!

 (http://www.picgifs.com/graphics/l/laughing/graphics-laughing-867787.gif)
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 02:41:32 pm
.
Doesn't the dealer give out loaners?


 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 02:49:13 pm
Cheers barn  :lmao:

Rang romac, threads are 3/8 unc or 3/8 uns
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 02:53:18 pm
Get a piece of flat 6mm plate and match drill 3/4 holes to suit your pulley/balancer setup.

Thread in the balancer bolt 6 - 8 turns, put a spacer between the bolt head and the flat plate then screw the 3/4 pulley mount bolts (either 5/16" or 3/8" UNC I cant remember) in and use them as jacking bolts to jack off the balancer from crank snout.

Cheers mate, yet more assing about.  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 03:23:02 pm
Before i forget do roller lifters need to go back in the same cylinder they came from on re assembly
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 03:25:24 pm
Before i forget do roller lifters need to go back in the same cylinder they came from on re assembly

Hey....read the instructions.  :toetapping:

No.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 05:05:29 pm
Picked up some bolts according to Romac, no dice.

Have a 60 Piece puller and not one bolt fits the holes.

3/8 unc are to big, the others are a fraction to small.


Had enough of this shite today  :ouch: :ouch:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 05:09:40 pm
Picked up some bolts according to Romac, no dice.

Have a 60 Piece puller and not one bolt fits the holes.

3/8 unc are to big, the others are a fraction to small.

Had enough of this shite today  :ouch: :ouch:


Some people prefer to do things the hard way.

.
Take the bolts that held the pulley on to the store in your new Landcruiser and just get longer ones.
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 05:22:24 pm
have some allen head bolts that fit, how tight is it supposed to be because i have the centre bolt with the cone shaped tip on it, and its that tight its almost rotating the engine.

I put a mark on the balancer to see if its moving at all and not even a mm


Just worried im going to fk the end of the crank or the balancer
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 24, 2016, 05:38:47 pm
I hope  you undid the  centre bolt and took the big washer off then replaced the bolt  and screwed it in a little then used the puller .   
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 05:39:36 pm
have some allen head bolts that fit, how tight is it supposed to be because i have the centre bolt with the cone shaped tip on it, and its that tight its almost rotating the engine.

I put a mark on the balancer to see if its moving at all and not even a mm


Just worried im going to fk the end of the crank or the balancer


ok, hold on just a second ill be back
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 05:42:05 pm

ok, hold on just a second ill be back

Knowing my luck lately i probably have this on wrong  :thud:

Can i put a bit of heat into it ?

Only thing i can thing of is the centre bolt on the puller is pressing on the bottom of the balancer and not the crank.

the other puller i have the centre bolt will thread into the crank but i was dubious to do that, if i put the crank bolt in and press off that it just starts to wind the crank bolt back in.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 05:44:41 pm
STOP

you need washers or big nuts to use as washers under the allen bolts

if the end of the puller is big and pointed, remove the center bolt that holds the damper on then screw the puller bolt in until it is snug.

with the car in 4th gear and the e brake on, turn the puller bolt with a 3 foot bar if it won't move with a shorter one.

keep turning until it is off

you are almost there.

DO NOT HEAT ANYTHING
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 05:48:55 pm
STOP

you need washers or big nuts to use as washers under the allen bolts

if the end of the puller is big and pointed, remove the center bolt that holds the damper on then screw the puller bolt in until it is snug.

with the car in 4th gear and the e brake on, turn the puller bolt with a 3 foot bar if it won't move with a shorter one.

keep turning until it is off

you are almost there.

DO NOT HEAT ANYTHING

roger.

yeah i thought heat may damage the seal in the balancer


so the puller bolt wont damage the end of the crank ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 05:53:11 pm
.
not if the outside diameter of pointed end is larger than the threads which most of them are.

the end of the crank hole us tapered slightly for this purpose.

if the end of the bolt is flat, you may need to use the damper bolt so it can press afainst that
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 05:54:23 pm
.
not if the outside diameter of pointed end is larger than the threads which most of them are.


so im taking that pointed end off ?

there are two sizes, or and i just winding the bolt in with out the pointed.

the other centre bolt on the puller will thread into the crank.


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 05:57:43 pm

so im taking that pointed end off ?

there are two sizes, or and i just winding the bolt in with out the pointed.

do NOT use it without the pointy end . just make sure the pointy end is big enough that it does NOT go inside the threaded crank hole.

use the biggest pointy thing that will fit inside the damper if they are interchangeable .

you may have to slip a long bar next to the bolt in the puller so you can keep the engine from turning.
.

 
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 24, 2016, 05:58:13 pm
Safer to screw the bolt back in a little and let the puller hit on that . The balancer hasn't been on for that long so it should come off easy . Sometimes if you have a lot of pressure on the puller hit the balancer with a rubber hammer  and it might shock off .no heat
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 06:03:15 pm
Tried the bolt but it just starts winding the crank bolt back in
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 06:04:47 pm
Tried the bolt but it just starts winding the crank bolt back in

take the f'n crank bolt out . never, ever use a pointy thing on the crank bolt.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 06:06:22 pm
take the f'n crank bolt out . never, ever use a pointy thing on the crank bolt.

I was smart enough not to do that, man give me some credit  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 06:08:30 pm
I was smart enough not to do that, man give me some credit  :lmao:

you just said the crank bolt was turning in

you need to STOP right now
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 24, 2016, 06:09:41 pm
Romac 's can be tight. the way to get it off is take the load on the center bolt then shock it by hitting the center bolt with a big hammer, tighten the bolt and hit it again etc
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 06:11:37 pm
.
remove the puller.

hold the crank bolt up to the pointy thing.

the outside of the pointy thing must be BIGGER than the outside of the crank bolt . If it is NOT, say goodbye to the threads in your crank.

this is a pointy puller . do NOT use this puller on the crank bolt if the head of the pointy thing swivels around

(http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/images/d/d2/Balancer_puller_installed.jpg)


this is a flat end puller . you can use this on a crank bolt but the crank bolt may still screw into the crank as you turn the puller bolt

(http://images.oreillyauto.com/parts/img/medium/kdt/orly_2286-75.jpg)
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 06:16:26 pm
.
remove the puller.

hold the crank bolt up to the pointy thing.

the outside of the pointy thing must be BIGGER than the outside of the crank bolt . If it is NOT, say goodbye to the threads in your crank.

this is a pointy puller . do NOT use this puller on the crank bolt

(http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/images/d/d2/Balancer_puller_installed.jpg)


this is a flat end puller . you can use this on a crank bolt but it may still screw into the crank as you turn the puller bolt

(http://images.oreillyauto.com/parts/img/medium/kdt/orly_2286-75.jpg)
.

Right, the top pic is exactly how i have it and it move at all.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 06:17:26 pm
you just said the crank bolt was turning in

you need to STOP right now

For all the time and effort of everyone involved probably would have been worth paying the $2500 at this rate.

As soon as i saw it turn i stopped
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 06:19:43 pm
.
as soon an you saw what turn?

is the pointy thing bigger than the crank bolt?

did you remove the crank bolt?

you can fuk your crank up easy if it is not correct.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 24, 2016, 06:21:45 pm
I have a tap to retap the crank thread. Not expensive use it often.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GEOFF289 on February 24, 2016, 06:30:17 pm
When this thread is added to the earlier one about webers that wouldn't stay in tune but turned out to be a stuffed distributor gear and cam, I reckon this engine has set a new record for the number of pages generated on this forum.

I admire your preparedness to have a go at this. Good luck!
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 07:08:10 pm
turns out best part to use was the larger flat piece.

Balancer is 3/4 of the way off. But seems to have hit this point and is really hard to turn.

normal ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 07:10:16 pm
When this thread is added to the earlier one about webers that wouldn't stay in tune but turned out to be a stuffed distributor gear and cam, I reckon this engine has set a new record for the number of pages generated on this forum.

I admire your preparedness to have a go at this. Good luck!


 :lmao: :lmao:

Cheers mate,  i figured with Barn offending everyone  :bolt: i'd give ya's all a bit of entertainment.

I dont normally give up on things but this is really pushing the limits of my sanity  :ouch:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 07:15:18 pm
turns out best part to use was the larger flat piece.

Balancer is 3/4 of the way off. But seems to have hit this point and is really hard to turn.

normal ?

if the crank damper bolt is out, keep turning the puller bolt.

if you left the crank bolt in, the damper has bottomed out on the washer on the damper bolt.

as soon as the puller bolt gets easy to turn, hold the puller as you turn the bolt because the damper will soon fall off.

,
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: trav68 on February 24, 2016, 07:18:38 pm
Not normal, should get easier as more of it dis-engages from the crank.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 24, 2016, 07:23:18 pm
Yep only a ten minute job if that
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 07:25:14 pm

 :lmao: :lmao:

Cheers mate,  i figured with Barn offending everyone  :bolt: i'd give ya's all a bit of entertainment.

 :shrug: I haven't even started yet.

You are also the one whom seems to be having a lot of trouble getting the Snausage out . I can assure you that I can easily get mine out any time I feel like it .   :thumb:


I dont normally give up on things but this is really pushing the limits of my sanity  :ouch:

No comment .  :lmao:
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 07:25:59 pm
Yep only a ten minute job if that

What are you trying to say Glenn ?  :toetapping:

 :lol:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 07:28:05 pm
.
 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 07:30:58 pm
Yep only a ten minute job if that

Is that before or after we spent an hour trying to explain to him how to do it? .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 07:32:14 pm
Feel like the first man to first discover fire  :pepper:

I need a beer and a lie down  :thud:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 07:38:12 pm
.
These are Snausage lifters . Grab the roller and make sure it rolls smoothly and that there is NO play in the roller . If there is ANY play in the roller, it is junk.

......(http://schneidercams.com/images/products/detail/RollerLifter.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 07:42:07 pm
.
These are Snausage lifters . Grab the roller and make sure it rolls smoothly and that there is NO play in the roller . If there is ANY play in the roller, it is junk.

......(http://schneidercams.com/images/products/detail/RollerLifter.jpg)

10/4

Just putting the tin lids to bed and im all over it.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 07:42:41 pm
I need a beer and a lie down  :thud:

FOSTERS LAGER...If it's good enough for a Roo, it's good enough for you!  :thumb:

(http://www.webnerds.com.au/KIBrewing/kangaroo-drinking-beer.gif)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 07:44:44 pm
Just putting the tin lids to bed and im all over it.

I'm sorry but I don't have my aussie translation book with me.  :shrug:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 07:55:38 pm
I'm sorry but I don't have my aussie translation book with me.  :shrug:

tin lids = kids
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 08:04:50 pm
tin lids = kids

ahhh, it sounded like the top to a beer can .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 09:04:07 pm
springs measure roughly 39.35mm ish across.

not sure if you want them measured another way
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 09:19:46 pm
springs measure roughly 39.35mm ish across.

not sure if you want them measured another way

that sounds like the big ones which is encourging, so it sounds like maybe TWO things went right today  . there is only 2.85 mm difference between the small springs and the big ones . the small ones are around 36.5 mm.

you can also take a piece of manilla folder that is 2 inches by 2 1/2 inches and cut a square section out of the long side that is 1.550 inches wide and 3/4 inches deep and put that over the top of the spring and it should fit perfectly.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 09:27:35 pm
so are we good with the springs or need new ones ?

engine builder said the springs matched to the cam
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 09:32:19 pm
so are we good with the springs or need new ones ?

engine builder said the springs matched to the cam

if those springs came on those heads from dart, you are definitely in business . if the "builder" bought the heads bare and installed them, it is impossible to know what they are.

i go by actual numbers, not by "they match the cam", because one persons idea of the correct springs and mine are not always the same, but as i said earlier, if the car revved to max rpm ok, then they are fine.


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 09:34:28 pm
engine builder said the springs matched to the cam

ummm...and this is the same builder that told you to run a bronze gear and also to never check it...ok, he must be right .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 09:52:51 pm
how many of these sump nuts do i need to undo, because ive loosend half and it still wont drop down.

need hands like a pygmy
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 24, 2016, 10:20:20 pm
i have no idea what you are talking about but do not remove the oil pan yet . . remove the  bolts that hold the bottom of the toming cover to the ol pan then remove the other timing cover bolts then remove timing cover   
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 10:42:07 pm
i have no idea what you are talking about but do not remove the oil pan yet . . remove the  bolts that hold the bottom of the toming cover to the ol pan then remove the other timing cover bolts then remove timing cover

The timing cover has screw in studs on the bottom, 2 either side of the crank unless i drop the pan down far enough i cant get enough clearance to remove the cover because it hits on the bottom of the crank.

Pan needs to drop a good 10-15mm at least. The whole engine has these screw in studs and you just put the nuts on.


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: trav68 on February 24, 2016, 10:47:09 pm
Just drop the pan it will have rtv silicone where it interfaces with main caps most likely.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 10:51:33 pm
Just drop the pan it will have rtv silicone where it interfaces with main caps most likely.

I can move the cover easily just can't get it off without by the looks of it dropping the whole pan or at least undoing all the nuts just enough to hold the pan without it coming completely off.

If it just had bolts, happy days it will come straight off.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 24, 2016, 11:15:12 pm
Can't you take out some of the studs ? .  Put 2 nuts on a stud and tighten them together locking them against each other ,then undo the nut closest to the sump/ pan and the stud should come out . 
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 24, 2016, 11:20:54 pm
Can't you take out some of the studs ? .  Put 2 nuts on a stud and tighten them together locking them against each other ,then undo the nut closest to the sump/ pan and the stud should come out .

You my friend are an ideas man.  :thumb:

Should work, hopefully.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 24, 2016, 11:24:30 pm
 :grin:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 04:21:46 am
you need to tighten the two nuts together pretty tight so they dont just spin on the stud . you would then turn the nut that is closest to the pan  but in your case the studs should not be  too tight therefore you can torn the  outer nut . . take a close up photo of the timing gears . there should be a tiny mark on the outside of the gears near the teeth . thiese marks must be perfectly aligned .m . if they arre not .m rotate the crank slightly until they are . . put the  trans in neutral to do this . . the spark plugs must also  be out . . after the marks are lined up see how much deflection or chain stretch there is . . then remove the cam bolt and use the instructions i posted to carefully remove it . . dont forget to buy a long bolt to screw into the end of the cam to remove and install it with .m . if you damage  a cam bearing you will bne disassembling the entire engine . . this is the most dangerous part of the pocess and the sharp edge on the side of the lobes casn easilygouge the bearing if it gets dragged across the  bearing . . .  sm 
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 04:34:04 am
remove the plate that holds the cam in then clean it then post a photo of both sides of it . if  there are any marks on  itt replace it . .  after removing the cam gear take a photo of the back side of it also m. . after removing the cam reinstall the plate and cam gear on the cam and  lightly tighten the nut bolt  then stand the cam straight up on a bench then use a feeler gaugee to check  the clearance between the cam and the retaining plate write  this measurement down and tell us what is is also.t
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 04:44:53 am
call vpw warehouse and see if they have that cam i suggested in stock . . if not it may take two weeks to get one from the us . . you could try rocket also.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 07:35:01 am
Thanks mate,

I've got all day today to get stuck into it.

I'll try and keep the stupid questions to a minimum  :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 08:27:11 am
Thanks mate,

I've got all day today to get stuck into it.

I'll try and keep the stupid questions to a minimum  :lmao: :lmao:

Ok, I will be around all day to help confuse you and the Geritol set will also chime in after they get up.

All jokes aside for [for maybe 30 seconds]. There are NO stupid questions . The problem is effectively communicating exactly what the question or problem is . The damper puller is a good example of not really making your point clear.

This job is incredibly challenging and you can EASILY fuk your engine up . This is why I am trying to be adamant about some of the things you need to do . It really takes a steady and skilled hand to remove and install the cam without F###ing the bearings up . I am confident you can do it providing you follow my previous instructions.

One secret is to remove it incredibly slowly . It may take you 20 minutes to pull it out and you will also get tired while removing it, so when you do, simply GENTLY let it go and rest for a few minutes . The cam lobes will only damage the bearings if you drag them across the bearings, however, it is best and safest if you can get the cam journals on the bearings before you let it go.

After the cam is around half way out, do NOT let go unless the cam journals are in the bearings, because at that point, the leverage of the cam on the bearings at can dent a bearing if the lobes are inside the bearing and not the journals.

Also, do NOT rotate the cam as you remove it.


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 25, 2016, 08:37:40 am
Yes take your time and be very careful .  The cam can get stuck a little when taking it out . Use your left hand if you are right handed to support the cam as its coming out . Old flat tappet cams get sharp edges on the lobes but your roller can should be ok . Lifters out 1st of cause ,and check those suckers out and post a photo .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 08:51:24 am
Thanks boys. Really appreciate all your time and effort.

Have a class to coach now and then ill be into it.

Just heard its going to be a toasty 45C (112F) today. Should make working in the garage nice today  :thud:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 09:06:17 am
Just heard its going to be a toasty 45C (112F) today. Should make working in the garage nice today  :thud:

Holy Crockodile Dundee mate', that sounds like it calls for a slab of FOSTERS LAGER...The Kangaroos Favorite Beer!

..................(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2YzD2GXe3fw/TcZxjjNlhLI/AAAAAAAAA6s/02ZLaZbXIv8/s320/Australian+beers.jpg)

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 25, 2016, 09:13:04 am
45 deg  :thud:  that's why I live the sunshine state  :grin:  should get to a toasty 30 deg today .  Barnett your from AZ  and I've been in that hot state in the summer and it was about 45 deg . I remember trying to open the car door and burning my hand on the door Handel .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 09:17:56 am
Never been to AZ, isn't it just all dirt ?

Family live in South Carolina so i travel there a bit.

Sister is a Doctor in Abu Dabi. Now that joint is on a whole other level hot.

To quote Richard Rawlings "good golly"
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 09:41:54 am
Barnett your from AZ  and I've been in that hot state in the summer and it was about 45 deg . I remember trying to open the car door and burning my hand on the door Handel .

But it's a "dry" heat so it's not that bad....as long as you use gloves to open your door .

  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 09:44:03 am
Never been to AZ, isn't it just all dirt ?

No, that's simply ridiculous...it has Cactuses too.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 25, 2016, 09:54:37 am
Yep dry heat ,every time I took a breath it burned .  AZ has a lot of people from south of the border also .  :grin:   The  Mex    s
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 10:04:01 am
AZ has a lot of people from south of the border also .  :grin:   The  Mex    s

Yeah but not even 1/10th of what California has.

Total Hispanic Population in California ................... 14,358,000   
Hispanics as Percent of State Population ....................... 38.0%   
Hispanics as Percent of U.S. Hispanic Population ............ 27.7%   



Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 10:10:57 am
No, that's simply ridiculous...it has Cactuses too.


You people sure do like Beige.  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 10:25:58 am
Right, tried the two nut option on the studs.

They aren't long enough to get both nuts on then get a spanner in there because of the lip on the edge of the pan. There barely long enough to get both the nuts on there.

Will save a lot of time if i just back all the nuts off just enough to hold the pan so it drops down far enough
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 10:29:21 am
You can also take a pair of good vice grips and undo them . they will not be in the cover very hard.

Also, since you are already  :cry: about how hard it is to remove a simple timing cover, I can't wait until you try to actually get the pan out of the car....and then reinstall it . That is gonna be worth the price of admission  .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: trav68 on February 25, 2016, 11:06:12 am
If you are desperate to leave the pan doesn't really matter if you damage the threads with vice grips just get a couple new 5/16" unc x 1" bolts and replace them or clean em with a die.  Sealer or loctite could be on the threads hence why its a bit tough to unwind.

Otherwise drop pan then you can clean it and check for debris , pump screen, etc
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 11:11:29 am
Yahtzee !!

I only see a dot on the upper gear, and obviously numbers on the bottom.

Do i need to line up the dot on the upper gear with the 0 on the lower ??
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 11:14:21 am

Do i need to line up the dot on the upper gear with the 0 on the lower ??

xlnt!

you rotated the crank when yo removed the damper and we have no idea how much you rotated it.

rotate the crank clockwise until the dot on the cam gear is straight down.

check the play on the chain before you remove it but it looks friggen tight.

use my instructions to remove it or you may fuk it up

WHAT BRAND IS THE TIMING SET?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 11:19:21 am
xlnt!

rotate the crank clockwise until the dot on the cam gear is straight down.

check the play on the chain before you remove it but it looks friggen tight.

use my instructions to remove it or you may fuk it up

WHAT BRAND IS THE TIMING SET?


Because the crank bolt is spaced out slightly by the balancer. Will the bolt bottom out before i can get it tight enough to turn it over. Dont want to damage the crank, threads etc
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 11:21:10 am
.
You can almost turn it over by hand now since your spark plugs are out so you will not damage it by tightening the bolt and using that to turn it, just put the trans in neutral.

...AND ANSWER THE FRIGGEN QUESTIONS  :toetapping:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 11:25:23 am
Done, dot and the 0 pretty much line up.

Left side of the chain has a tiny amount of slack, maybe 5mm at most. right side has zero.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 11:26:50 am
.
ok xlnt...now use my previous instructions and yank the gears off.

...AND ANSWER THE FRIGGEN QUESTIONS  :toetapping:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 11:44:40 am
.
ok xlnt...now use my previous instructions and yank the gears off.

The rockers are shaft mount. Does that mean i take them all off in one piece ? By undoing all the nuts between the rockers ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 11:48:29 am
.
1 you must loosen the nuts on the tips first, then just unbolt them.

2 after you remove them, turn each adjustment screw out 2 full turns . do NOT forget to do this.

3 you do not need to keep them in order.

4 remove all the push rods and put them in a bag.

5 remove the lifters and inspect the rollers for play.







Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 12:04:20 pm
Ive got most of the rockers off but i cant get the last 2 off because each have a valve open a bit so there is too much tension on 2 of the rods.

im sure ive fkd up somewhere along the way. can i rotate the engine to take the tension off. or will that now cause big issues with the rest of the rockers off

knew this would turn to shite soon enough
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 12:07:38 pm
no problemo, just rotate the engine until the valves are open then rotate it back after you remove the engine.

i sure hope you loosened the nuts on the adjusters first.

you are almost there.

no you did not fuk up if you followed my instructions.

this is "almost" idiot proof .  :lmao:

.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 12:16:59 pm
.
You should have your Snausage out and on the table in around 30 minutes, IF you have the Snausage removal bolt . There may be one in the damper puller box that will fit.

If you don't have a bolt, you can put the cam bolt in then grab the head of it with vice grips.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 12:23:25 pm
Yeah i loosened the nuts.

rockers and push rods are out.

cannot get the lifters out without removing the heads. only come out 3/4's and they hit the head  :shrug:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 12:32:54 pm
Yeah i loosened the nuts.

rockers and push rods are out.

cannot get the lifters out without removing the heads. only come out 3/4's and they hit the head  :shrug:

ok, you are now kinda fuked . the f'n bastards used the type of lifters that must be installed with the heads off

these will go right in

(http://johncalliesinc.com/images/catalog/MedRes/Set4713Pair4712_1_MR.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 12:35:31 pm
For now, you can get some safety wire and feed it thru a push rod hole then put it on the lifter cross bar then lift the lifters up and tie the wire to a rocker bolt on the head.  :thumb:

then remove the cam.  :thumb: :thumb:

you don't really need to remove the lifters but it would have been nice to check the condition of the rollers, but i doubt they are bad so soon.



Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 12:38:45 pm
 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Of course they did...

rightio ill tie them up
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 12:40:01 pm
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Of course they did...

Should I pretend I'm surprised?


rightio ill tie them up

Sounds kinky .  :drool:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 12:42:53 pm
.
Hurry up...we all wanna see the Snausage!
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 12:46:57 pm
The top timing gear moves easy enough but the bottom is ridiculously tight. Im trying to gently pry it here and there but it wont move and i dont want to go full retard on it because you should never go full retard and i dont want to break something

Suggestions ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 12:52:29 pm
All good.

It's off.

Top is off but bottom gear wants to stay on. can i leave it on ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 12:56:25 pm
Did you have to pry the top gear off?

if you did, you may have just fuked up your $180.00 timing chain which is why i told you not to pry it off

you can leave the bottom gear on for now . just whip your Snausage out.

Your nose of your Chinese crank is around .005" too large.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 01:04:56 pm
Did you have to pry the top gear off?

if you did, you may have just fuked up your $180.00 timing chain which is why i told you not to pry it off

you can leave the bottom gear on for now . just whip your Snausage out.

Your nose of your Chinese crank is around .005" too large.

No i managed to get both to move enough that the top just came off.

rightio cam out time
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 01:12:18 pm
xlnt!

Whip it out .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 01:27:40 pm
ok,

VPW does NOT have the cam . . Their price is $450.00 aud . Delivery time is 6 to 8 weeks . They can air ship it faster for more money.

Summit racing has it and it will cost $465.00 to your door and will take 14 days.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 01:36:38 pm
Done...

That was kind of nerve racking..

It stopped a couple of times, like it was catching a little.

But it slid out pretty easily.


Here's to hoping i didnt fk a bearing  :cheers:


Number on the cam is

52951

274 R 10
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 01:40:13 pm
ok, post photos of it so we can see if it is steel or cast iron.

Third try to get cam gear info from you.

The cams always catch when removed and installed.


Are the edges of the cam lobes razor sharp?

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 01:50:19 pm
ok, post photos of it so we can see if it is steel or cast iron.

Third try to get cam gear info from you.

The cams always catch when removed and installed.


Are the edges of the cam lobes razor sharp?

Resizing the photos now.

yes, there pretty sharp. if i pressed hard enough definitely cut my finger.

I'll let you be the judge of the pics but now its out, the gear doesn't look chipped or worn. I'm probably wrong but...... ill be  :ouch: :ouch: :ouch: :ouch: if ive done all this for nothing and could have just got a new dizzy gear.

 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 01:53:29 pm
.
 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 01:54:56 pm
I will go off the deep end for sure..  :toetapping:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 02:02:38 pm
I will go off the deep end for sure..  :toetapping:

(http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000913035/jumping_from_bridge_xlarge.jpeg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 02:03:44 pm
(http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000913035/jumping_from_bridge_xlarge.jpeg)

Thats it.

Nearest tall building
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 02:14:44 pm
Thats it.

Nearest tall building

.................................... 101 Collins Street, Melbourne.
..(http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/RafflesCity/ROT/101colins.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 02:19:57 pm
.
You could drive your new $90,000.00 Multi Fuel Landcruiser there
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 02:21:55 pm

....whenever it gets out of the shop .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 02:23:40 pm
 :shrug:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 02:25:18 pm
On tge last pic you can see some chips and burring on the corners. Is that significant enough to warrant changing it
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 25, 2016, 02:31:45 pm
Nice looking cam ,ugly foot tho  :lmao: .  I told you to watch out for those edges on the lobes ,they can get you . I cant see any marks but I'm only on a small I pad .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 02:34:42 pm
need much bigger photos and more clear.

you can email them to me if you can;t post them.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 02:34:56 pm
Nice looking cam ,ugly foot tho  :lmao: .

That's harsh mate. Was always told i could have been a foot model  :lmao:  :sick:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 02:35:33 pm
need much bigger photos and more clear.

you can email them to me if you can;t post them.

PM me your email
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 25, 2016, 02:41:53 pm
If you were a foot model you would have gotten the BOOT  :lmao: 
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 02:44:48 pm
PM me your email

Ok, just sent it.

You may be able to sand the sharp edge where it is broken and reuse it but i will need bigger images

That is a steel cam and you do not need a bronze gear but you do need to post photos of the cam plate and back of big gear
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 02:52:00 pm
On there way.

Never saw that email address coming  :lmao: :lmao:

Is that your favourite movie ??

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 03:02:55 pm
ok got the photos and they suck . i need high res photos so i can see virtually every grain of metal.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 03:03:59 pm
On there way.

Never saw that email address coming  :lmao: :lmao:

Is that your favourite movie ??

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

its the ol' ladys name when she drops her drawers  .  :lmao:

my favorite movie is broke back mountain 
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 03:10:51 pm
ok got the photos and they suck . i need high res photos so i can see virtually every grain of metal.


Sorry mate i seem to have misplaced my electron microscope   :lmao: :grin:


I'll see what i can do.


I'll just err on the side of caution and get a new one anyway.

Do you know what material it is ?

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 03:11:23 pm
its the ol' ladys name when she drops her drawers  .  :lmao:

my favorite movie is broke back mountain


Just disturbing...
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 03:16:05 pm

Just disturbing...

i used the rewind button on the vcr so much with that movie that it broke .  :lmao:

my other favorite is Deliverance.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 03:21:21 pm
Do you know what material it is ?

Yes, my previous post said it was steel and at this point in time, it still is.

I need photos like this because I am trying to see wear that might on,y be .002" or .003"


....(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/rockhouse66/DSC05105.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 03:25:15 pm
.
photos like these this would be even better

..........(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/zQIAAOSwx-9Wy8B8/s-l1600.jpg)

..(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71cZwMS4GeL._SL1050_.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 03:27:06 pm
Yes, my previous post said it was steel and at this point in time, it still is.

I need photos like this because I am trying to see wear that might on,y be .002" or .003"


....(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/rockhouse66/DSC05105.jpg)

Ahh ok, just took them with my phone.

I'll see if i can get better ones.

Whilst its still $400 odd dollars for a new cam i'd rather just replace it than risk bigger issues down the track. $400 is cheap insurance on a $15k+ motor.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 03:31:09 pm
it is $460.00 and i can probably tell for sure if you can reuse it f you send good photos but the phone aint gonna cut it . most little $100.00 digital cameras can take photos like that these days.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 03:34:52 pm
it is $460.00 and i can probably tell for sure if you can reuse it f you send good photos but the phone aint gonna cut it . most little $100.00 digital cameras can take photos like that these days.

Yeah i've got a canon dslr i'll have to charge it.

I tried at least googling that cam but nothing comes up. I've sent Schneider an email.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 03:39:34 pm
Yeah i've got a canon dslr i'll have to charge it.

I tried at least googling that cam but nothing comes up. I've sent Schneider an email.

ok, at least if you still want another cam, i can tell if yours is good enough to be sellable, but we should still find out why your bronze gear got killed.

need to know if you have a high volume oil pump.

 
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 04:01:49 pm
Try and explain this best i can.

Where ive drawn the line around the gear, if you look at it straight on its mostly flat. If you run your finger around at least 1/2 has the edges burred upward in the direction of the other lines.

The edges where the two lines meet are pretty thin and jagged.

I'll get better pics as soon as i can.

In the meantime i may as well get a part list together for reassembly.

Timing gear is roll master, missed your question before
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 04:15:21 pm
.
ok, the shape of the teeth are exactly the same on both ends . the width of the teeth is exactly the same also . if one end of the teeth is thin, the gear is fkd and the distributor gear was probably not centered.

you will need to setup the distributor gear and possibly the end play of the new cam.

we still need to know what the end play is on the cam.


REMOVE YOUR F'N HIGH VOLUME OIL PUMP
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 04:20:43 pm
.
ok, the shape of the teeth are exactly the same on both ends . the width of the teeth is exactly the same also . if one end of the teeth is thin, the gear is fkd and the distributor gear was probably not centered.

you will need to setup the distributor gear and possibly the end play of the new cam.

we still need to know what the end play is on the cam.


REMOVE YOUR F'N HIGH VOLUME OIL PUMP

End play is measured with cam in and dial gauge yeah ?

Yeah, on the end that i marked at least 60% of the teeth are thin, burred in some way.

just spoke with engine builder, runs standard pump.

Can't it also be caused by the distributor bottoming out or something ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 04:28:58 pm
End play is measured with cam in and dial gauge yeah ?

Yeah, on the end that i marked at least 60% of the teeth are thin, burred in some way.

just spoke with engine builder, runs standard pump.

Can't it also be caused by the distributor bottoming out or something ?


I previously posted how to check the end play.

put the plate on the cam

bolt the gear on the cam

stand the cam on end with the gear facing down

use a FEELER GAUGE to measure clearance between plate and cam


something was way fkd up to kill that bronze gear that fast if it does not have a high volume pump.

it is possible the block is incorrectly machined but we won't know until you check the gear mesh . part of it may be that the distributor gear was running off the end of the cam when it is supposed to be centered.
 .

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 04:40:40 pm
Righto,

Well i may as well break out the credit cards and get shopping. :compute:


I found no metal in the oil, and there is no metal or debris around the timing/cam area. Do i need to drop the pan ? Trying to avoid that like the plague because it looks like a m@#$@#$  of a job with no hoist
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 05:04:56 pm
weeel, if you loosened the pan and pulled it down and it had sealer on it, you should remove it.

if it does not have a one piece seal you should remove it and replace the gasket.

this is why i suggested that you not to loosen the pan and use vice grips to remove the studs in the timing cover instead.

.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 05:16:34 pm
It didnt budge when i loosend a few nuts anyway.

It has by the looks of it a one piece cork type gasket.

Need these to get the thing off.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 05:20:52 pm
there is no such thing as a one piece cork gasket . the gasket on the curved part of the pan where the bottom of the timing cover seals should be rubber.

you need to post a photo of this area on the pan.


remove the oil galley plug on the right and the upper left and drill a .35 mm hole in them . taper the back of the hole lightly with a 1 mm bit.

..................(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n229/dennis_8047/393w%20motor/UnderTimingCover002.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 05:36:47 pm
Here
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 05:38:18 pm
Intake

Felpro yeah ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 05:43:32 pm
Right and the left directly opposite ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 05:55:07 pm
HOW DID YOU REMOVE THE TIMING COVER WITHOUT LOWERING THE OIL PAN?

WHAT DO YOUR LIFTERS SAY ON THE CROSS BAR?


that is a standard two piece oil pan gasket . this is tricky to replace but we will tell you how later.

tighten the oil pan bolts up before something happens

yes upper left and upper right plugs

clean the crap out of the cam plate bolt holes.
.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 06:03:24 pm
HOW DID YOU REMOVE THE TIMING COVER WITHOUT LOWERING THE OIL PAN?

WHAT DO YOUR LIFTERS SAY ON THE CROSS BAR?


that is a standard two piece oil pan gasket . this is tricky to replace but we will tell you how later.

tighten the oil pan bolts up before something happens

yes upper left and upper right plugs

Managed to wind out the studs bit by bit with small lock jaws. Think i have RSI.

Nothing, they have 1.70 stamped on them, an F which i assume means Front. And a number 0525 on the side. There T&D
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 06:12:51 pm
LIFTER NOT ROCKER . I CAN SEE A NAME ON THE LIFTER CROSSBAR . WHAT IS IT
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 06:16:09 pm
LIFTER NOT ROCKER . I CAN SEE A NAME ON THE LIFTER CROSSBAR . WHAT IS IT

 :lmao: :lmao:

Shnauzer
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 06:33:11 pm
:lmao: :lmao:

Shnauzer

Are you sure it's not Snausage?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 06:40:43 pm
Are you sure it's not Snausage?

So it looks like Summit is the only place i can get that cam from in a reasonable amount of time. Rocket don't carry it and Jeggs are about $50 or so more.

When i hear from Snausage tomorrow ill post up the specs to be 100% sure. And if the comp cam is the way to go then ill order it.

I'm obviously going to need stuff like gaskets, sealant, assembly lube etc etc etc so i may as order all that crap in the mean time.

Any suggestions ? Brands etc.




Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 07:21:10 pm
So it looks like Summit is the only place i can get that cam from in a reasonable amount of time. Rocket don't carry it and Jeggs are about $50 or so more.

When i hear from Snausage tomorrow ill post up the specs to be 100% sure. And if the comp cam is the way to go then ill order it.

I'm obviously going to need stuff like gaskets, sealant, assembly lube etc etc etc so i may as order all that crap in the mean time.

Any suggestions ? Brands etc.


yes, we'll make a list.


there should be a part number on your intake gaskets . what is it?


NEED PHOTOS OT THE CAM PLATE AND BACK SIDE OF CAM GEAR.

NEED CAM PLATE CLEARANCE.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 07:33:45 pm

yes, we'll make a list.


there should be a part number on your intake gaskets . what is it?


NEED PHOTOS OT THE CAM PLATE AND BACK SIDE OF CAM GEAR.

NEED CAM PLATE CLEARANCE.

I'll have to do all that in the morning mate.

My 4 kids have declared a Jihad on the house. It's trench warfare  :lmao: :lmao:


The two comp cams 770-8 and 771-8. Whats the difference with them ?


Do you not sleep ? isn't it like 2am ?

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 07:57:38 pm
I'll have to do all that in the morning mate.

My 4 kids have declared a Jihad on the house. It's trench warfare  :lmao: :lmao:


The two comp cams 770-8 and 771-8. Whats the difference with them ?


Do you not sleep ? isn't it like 2am ?

ok, no prob

its only 1 am . i am in california now . cant sleep yet cuz they are playing 24 hours of broke back mountain on the tele . it makes me wanna go campin .  :lmao:.

the 771 is the same series but it is the next step "bigger" . it will have less low end and more top end . it would need at least 3.73 gears.

we still dont know what your gears are.



 
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 25, 2016, 08:10:53 pm
ok, no prob

its only 1 am . i am in california now . cant sleep yet cuz they are playing 24 hours of broke back mountain on the tele.

the 771 is the same series but it is the next step "bigger" . it will have less low end and more top end . it would need at least 3.73 gears.

we still dont know what your gears are.


Ahh i see. Yeah i wanted to keep more of the low to mid range that it has without sacrificing too much top end.

I'll try and do the gears tomorrow. I've had to move it out of the shed to just outside but its a bit of a slope driveway. ill really need to make sure i chock the front wheels really well or its not going to be pretty if it moves.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 25, 2016, 08:32:24 pm
.
HOW FAR DID THE SNAUSAGE REV?

That 770 cam is what I would use then . its gonna hit a bit harder than the Snausage too . If you thought the Snausage came on hard, you better bring some extra shorts along for your first ride.

 :burnout:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 26, 2016, 08:14:45 am
Cam specs from snausage

274-R

274 duration
230 @ .050"

..620" lift with 1.7 rocker

.020" lash int. & exh. hot

110 lobe center
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 26, 2016, 08:46:39 am
LOL, yeah, i just talked to them . the lash is actually .018 . i will look at the other cams again since your cam is nowhere near what we thought it was, however, the comp cam is very similar with the main exception of having a dual pattern.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 26, 2016, 10:04:43 am
LOL, yeah, i just talked to them . the lash is actually .018 . i will look at the other cams again since your cam is nowhere near what we thought it was, however, the comp cam is very similar with the main exception of having a dual pattern.

came in on email this morning.

Thanks mate. I forgot to ask though if it was steel or not.

I'll post up pics of the retaining plate and back of the cam gear and i'll check the cam plate clearance
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 26, 2016, 10:31:09 am
I already mentioned two times that it was a steel cam just by looking at it.

Get us your rear gear ratio.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 26, 2016, 11:24:58 am
What oil and viscosity were you using?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 26, 2016, 11:27:48 am
I already mentioned two times that it was a steel cam just by looking at it.

Get us your rear gear ratio.

I'll have to get some bigger wheel chocks and suss it out.

I had to move it out of the garage to just out side and where it is now it's very sketchy to jack up the rear because of the driveway slope.

I've emailed the builder in the meantime. The diff was setup for track rather than street. So i assume it would be lower gear ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 26, 2016, 11:50:06 am
how far did your engine rev?

what oil were you using?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 26, 2016, 12:19:28 pm
how far did your engine rev?

what oil were you using?


It was built to handle 8k+ but i probably only took it to 6500-7000 tops. It was limited to 6000 on the street.

Fuchs Titan 60. Its what they used from go.

When and if it gets up and running was going to switch to Penrite
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 26, 2016, 12:50:31 pm

Fuchs Titan 60. Its what they used from go.

ummm...if you use that oil, it will kill a bronze distributor gear in no time .  :lmao:


If you use synthetic, I would use Penrite 10 Tenths Racing 10 . It is 10w-40 PAO with some ESTER and 1800 ppm of ZDDB.
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 26, 2016, 01:11:09 pm
ummm...if you use that oil, it will kill a bronze distributor gear in no time .  :lmao:

Thats what they put in it and told me to run.

Ffs  :ouch:  :ouch:

They use it in there race cars but i assume there heating the oil before startup, yeah ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 26, 2016, 01:14:36 pm
Thats what they put in it and told me to run.

Ffs  :ouch:  :ouch:

That's because they hoped it would make you a repeat customer...when you needed another engine cuz it killed the cam gears and sent shrapnel thru your engine .  :lmao:

If you use synthetic, I would use Penrite 10 Tenths Racing 10 . It is 10w-40 PAO with some ESTER and 1800 ppm of ZDDB.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 26, 2016, 01:38:13 pm
That's because they hoped it would make you a repeat customer...when you needed another engine cuz it killed the cam gears and sent shrapnel thru your engine .  :lmao:

If you use synthetic, I would use Penrite 10 Tenths Racing 10 . It is 10w-40 PAO with some ESTER and 1800 ppm of ZDDB.  :thumb:

That's just super  :cry:


That's the oil i was looking at last night.

Is Penrites assembly lube any good ?


Do you definitely need the diff ratio before you can work out a cam ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 26, 2016, 02:00:38 pm
.
Do not need the diff ratio, it just would have been interesting but based on your cam specs and your comments, the ratio is not absolutely necessary.

ENGINE

363 Windsor stroker
Pro 1 210 cc aluminum heads . valves 2.05 1.60 . flow 305 208 @ .600" lift . 68% ex to in flow.
Headers 1 3/4" into 3"
Intake has 4 huge Webers
Compression 11.5:1
Top loader 4 speed with unknown ratio
Diff gears unknown but will post later

Here's some solid roller cam options . I would use the HOWARDS 220183-10

YOUR SNAUSAGE IS ... 274 274 . 230 230 . lobes 365 365 . rocker 1.7 . 620 620 .  lsa 110 . lash 018 018

These are the alternative cams that will work for you that I would consider for your engine.

HOWARDS 220183-10 .. 269 275 . 237 243 . lobes 370 370 . rocker 1.7 . 629 629 . lsa 110 . lash 022 022

LUNATI 40350731 ........ 267 273 . 237 243 . lobes 367 385 . rocker 1.7 . 624 654 . lsa 110

COMP CAMS 35-770-8 .. 274 280 . 236 242 . lobes 377 381 . rocker 1.7 . 641 648 . lsa 110 . lash 016 018

HOWARDS 221313-10 .. 277 277 . 245 245   lobes 390 390 . rocker 1.7 . 663 663 . lsa 110

COMP CAMS 35-771-8 .. 280 286 . 242 248 . lobes 381 385 . rocker 1.7 . 648 654 . lsa 110

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 26, 2016, 02:07:53 pm
.
Do not need the diff ratio, it just would have been interesting but based on your cam specs and your comments, the ratio is not absolutely necessary.

ENGINE

363 Windsor stroker
Pro 1 210 cc aluminum heads . valves 2.05 1.60 . flow 305 208 @ .600" lift . 68% ex to in flow.
Headers 1 3/4" into 3"
Intake has 4 huge Webers
Compression 11.5:1
Top loader 4 speed with unknown ratio
Diff gears unknown but will post later


Here's some solid roller cam options . I would use the HOWARDS 220183-10

YOUR SNAUSAGE IS ... 274 274 . 230 230 . lobes 365 365 . rocker 1.7 . 620 620 .  lsa 110 . lash 018 018


These are the alternative cams that will work for you that I would consider for your engine.

HOWARDS 220183-10 .. 269 275 . 237 243 . lobes 370 370 . rocker 1.7 . 629 629 . lsa 110 . lash 022 022

LUNATI 40350731 ........ 267 273 . 237 243 . lobes 367 385 . rocker 1.7 . 624 654 . lsa 110

COMP CAMS 35-770-8 .. 274 280 . 236 242 . lobes 377 381 . rocker 1.7 . 641 648 . lsa 110 . lash 016 018

HOWARDS 221313-10 .. 277 277 . 245 245   lobes 390 390 . rocker 1.7 . 663 663 . lsa 110

COMP CAMS 35-771-8 .. 280 286 . 242 248 . lobes 381 385 . rocker 1.7 . 648 654 . lsa 110


Awesome work.

I'll have to put you on the payroll.  :lol:


I see the Comp cams from the previous list are still on there.

Why the switch to Howards ?

I have heard of Howards, how are they as far as quality etc ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 26, 2016, 02:21:05 pm

Awesome work.

I'll have to put you on the payroll.  :lol:

I see the Comp cams from the previous list are still on there.

Why the switch to Howards ?

I have heard of Howards, how are they as far as quality etc ?

The switch is because your cam specs are not anything like what we thought and based on your comments, i think the howards will be better, especially if you race it on occasion because it is a steel billet cam . Howards also typically have more duration at .200" lift than other cams and this helps everywhere . The comp cam would also still work fine and the difference wont be huge between these two.

I doubt you cam would rev to 7k.


BREAK IN OIL

I would use Joe Gibbs.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 26, 2016, 02:34:52 pm

The switch is because your cam specs are not anything like what we thought and based on your comments, i think the howards will be better, especially if you race it on occasion because it is a steel billet cam . howards also typically have more duration at .0200" than other cams and this helps everywhere.

the comp cam would also still work fine and the difference wont be huge between these two.


Ahh rightio.

I'll have to get either from Summit by the looks of things.

Bronze or composite gear ?

Will MSD's own gears be suitable ?




Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 26, 2016, 04:02:30 pm
Its only a new camshaft , used lifters and the rest of the engine has been run in .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: trav68 on February 26, 2016, 04:16:14 pm
Max valve lift was 0.650" was it not for those springs?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 26, 2016, 04:17:31 pm
Its only a new camshaft , used lifters and the rest of the engine has been run in .

ROLLER CAM BREAK IN

http://www.drivenracingoil.com/news/dro/training-center/articles/roller-cams-need-break-in-too/ (http://www.drivenracingoil.com/news/dro/training-center/articles/roller-cams-need-break-in-too/)

“We are seeing a trend away from flat tappet engines to avoid the oil issues related to flat tappet cams, but just because you have a roller cam does not mean that it does not have to be broken in properly,” commented Reese. “NASCAR-level engine programs like Joe Gibbs Racing are still doing a 30 minute break-in on their roller cam engines because they have learned the hard way what happens when they don’t.”

Brian Reese summarized it the best. “If you get the break-in wrong with a flat tappet cam, it dies right in front of your face. If you get the break-in wrong with a roller cam, it may not die until several thousand miles down the road, but the problem began at break-in.”

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 26, 2016, 04:18:36 pm
Max valve lift was 0.650" was it not for those springs?

Yes, so in the case of the Howards cam, take the advertised lift of .629 and subtract .022 for the lash to get the actual lift of .607.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 26, 2016, 04:24:10 pm

Ahh rightio.

I'll have to get either from Summit by the looks of things.

Bronze or composite gear ?

Will MSD's own gears be suitable ?


Bronze is for making statues, use a Crane Cams steel gear in the size needed to fit your distributor.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 26, 2016, 05:11:42 pm
I'm not saying break   in period for  the cam or engine , but seeing the engine and lifters need no break in period do you still need run in oil for the cam itself . 
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 26, 2016, 05:14:37 pm
I didn't think i'd have to break it in either but i'll do it anyway as an added precaution and to save a future 4000 page thread  :lmao:

I'm not sure if i read Howards parts list right but they recommend either bronze or composite by the looks of it
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 26, 2016, 05:20:34 pm
I didn't think i'd have to break it in either but i'll do it anyway as an added precaution and to save a future 4000 page thread  :lmao:
And perhaps with the extra car, it will save you from having to let your wife drive your new $90,000.00 "gas" powered Landcruiser .  :lmao:

At least I bet it hauled ass...for around three seconds . :lmao:

Maybe you can buy a wife proof fuel cap for it .  :lmao:


I'm not sure if i read Howards parts list right but they recommend either bronze or composite by the looks of it
And just how long did your "statue" gear last?


Ouch!

(http://www.picgifs.com/graphics/l/laughing/graphics-laughing-867787.gif)
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 26, 2016, 05:37:36 pm
I'm not saying break   in period for  the cam or engine , but seeing the engine and lifters need no break in period do you still need run in oil for the cam itself .

It is still helpful . There are two different types of ZDDP . One forms a more permanent layer under heat and pressure and the other type that is in engine oils is sacraficial and protects the permanent layer.

There are zillions of people that never use break in oil on solid lifter engines and many of them appear to have no problem, however, these same people don't have 100,000 kilometers on their engines either, so in these cases, it is not possible to say what condition their engine/cam/timing gear etc will be in if they ever get that many miles on it.

Also, many of these same people may have a fair amount of wear on their gears and not know it because it has not gotten quite bad enough yet.

What is you cam and gear made out of?

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 26, 2016, 05:47:30 pm
And perhaps with the extra car, it will save you from having to let your wife drive your new $90,000.00 "gas" powered Landcruiser .  :lmao:

At least I bet it hauled ass...for around three seconds . :lmao:

Maybe you can buy a wife proof fuel cap for it .  :lmao:

And just how long did your "statue" gear last?


Ouch!

(http://www.picgifs.com/graphics/l/laughing/graphics-laughing-867787.gif)
.

Just a regular comedian this bloke  :toetapping: :toetapping:

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 26, 2016, 05:59:56 pm
.
My apologies, I forgot to put a laughing guy after this comment.


And just how long did your "statue" gear last?

And just how long did your "statue" gear last?  :lmao:

There, that's better.  :thumb:


Holy crap....I think I just peed my pants!

(http://www.picgifs.com/graphics/l/laughing/graphics-laughing-867787.gif)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 26, 2016, 09:08:58 pm
.
We can have some distributor fun now if you want.

below is one of the tests you will eventually be doing . you can see that his new dist gear is fkd because he checked the distributor shaft and it is straight and the od of the dust gear is true, so it seems like not all the teeth in the dist gear might not have been cut evenly but i'm still looking at this prob.

We are going to run a fairly tight end play on your cam because a roller does not need much and the hole you will drill in the right side galley plug will oil the bejesus out of the timing set and the cam thrust plate . . pretty cool huh?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae3fri2pKYs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae3fri2pKYs)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=GhmjwPMKtT8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=GhmjwPMKtT8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLmG7AUCim0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLmG7AUCim0)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABoDp2zfz3o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABoDp2zfz3o)
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 26, 2016, 11:28:53 pm
.
We can have some distributor fun now if you want.

below is one of the tests you will eventually be doing . you can see that his new dist gear is fkd because he checked the distributor shaft and it is straight and the od of the dust gear is true, so it seems like not all the teeth in the dist gear might not have been cut evenly but i'm still looking at this prob.

We are going to run a fairly tight end play on your cam because a roller does not need much and the hole you will drill in the right side galley plug will oil the bejesus out of the timing set and the cam thrust plate . . pretty cool huh?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae3fri2pKYs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae3fri2pKYs)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=GhmjwPMKtT8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=GhmjwPMKtT8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLmG7AUCim0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLmG7AUCim0)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABoDp2zfz3o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABoDp2zfz3o)
.


Very interesting to watch.

The second video is exactly whats happened to mine. From the knife edges on the dizzy to the wear on the front corners of the cam gear
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 27, 2016, 08:12:49 am
.
DISTRIBUTOR GEAR MESH

Wear on the front of the gear on the cam is not unusual on aftermarket cams, but the contact really should be in the center of the gear . The correct way to fix that prob is to remove material from the front of the camshaft but not so much that the edge of the lifter runs off the side of the lobe . There should be maybe at least .020" from the edge of the roller to the edge of the cam lobe . It might cost around $40.00 to have a machine shop do this but nobody other than I might do this, however, you will also never see me make a post asking why my distributor and possibly cam gear are junk.

People use aftermarket blocks with aftermarket cams with aftermarket distributors with aftermarket gears and don't set the gears up at all and then wonder why their gears quickly turn into scrap metal.

In your case, the problem was compounded by the idiot's use of glue in the place of actual engine oil . To be fair, the stuff they used actually IS ok to use....in an engine that runs over 5000 rpm for long periods of time and has a DRY SUMP OIL SYSTEM .  :lmao:

Just to put things into perspective, Nascar doesn't even use 60 oil, and they run from 8500 to 10,000 rpm for hours on end.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 27, 2016, 08:30:04 am
DISTRIBUTOR GEAR TYPE

By the way . I emailed the following to Howards yesterday about using the Crane gear on the cam I suggested and they replied this morning.

Mike:

That gear will work fine.
 
John Steely

Howards Cams
280 W. 35th Ave.
Oshkosh, WI   54902
920-233-5228
920-233-0938 Fax
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 27, 2016, 09:01:07 am

In your case, the problem was compounded by the idiot's use of glue in the place of actual engine oil . To be fair, the stuff they used actually IS ok to use....in an engine that runs over 5000 rpm for long periods of time and has a DRY SUMP OIL SYSTEM .  :lmao:



I asked them about the oil a couple of times. And all i got was make sure the engine is up to temp, (which i do anyway) before driving. But in the same sentence he said he uses the same oil but with a pre heater before startup.

Not exactly handy for me at home  :thud:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 27, 2016, 09:03:23 am
DISTRIBUTOR GEAR TYPE

By the way . I emailed the following to Howards yesterday about using the Crane gear on the cam I suggested and they replied this morning.

Mike:

That gear will work fine.
 
John Steely

Howards Cams
280 W. 35th Ave.
Oshkosh, WI   54902
920-233-5228
920-233-0938 Fax

So i assume by that you mean a steel gear ?

How do they compare to MSD ?

Reason i ask is i was going to just send the distributor to MSD for them to replace it. It's a few days turn around

Measured the end play on my distributor and it's pretty much dead on MSD min spec.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 27, 2016, 09:03:50 am
DISTRIBUTOR GEAR SETUP STEP 1

Use a paper towel and some paint thinner to thoroughly clean the area where the distributor gear runs on the block and clean the front cam bearing and the holes the cam plate bolts screw in to because they had sealer inside them.

Carefully inspect the distributor gear thrust surface/pad that is machined into the block . It should be as flat as glass and flawlessly smooth . Tell us if it is not then post a photo.

Clean the distributor shaft and gear.

Put engine oil on the housing where it rides in the block.

Install distributor and distributor hold down clamp and moderately tighten the clamp bolt.

From the front of the engine, grab the shaft by the gear and lift it up and measure the clearance between the bottom of the gear and the block . It should be around .010".

Remove that feeler gauge then insert a .001" or .002" feeler gauge between the gear and the block.

Let go of the shaft then place light downward pressure on the top of the shaft then try to remove the feeler gauge . If there is no resistance it means there is clearance and we have to fix it.

If there is clearance, put light downward pressure on the top of the shaft and measure exactly how much there is by inserting different thicknesses of gauges until the just barely fit.

 



Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 27, 2016, 09:07:56 am
So i assume by that you mean a steel gear ?

How do they compare to MSD ?

Reason i ask is i was going to just send the distributor to MSD for them to replace it. It's a few days turn around

The MSD steel gear is not made by Crane . Use the Crane gear or take your chances and save your money in case you have to do this again.

You can NOT use a normal steel gear, it must be melonized . Both the MSD and Crane gear are but they are not made by the same company . The distributor gear photos I posted earlier are the Crane gear and it is pretty easy to see that it is extremely smooth with no sharp edges..

You can not do anything until we have the results of the above test.

The gear mesh must be perfect or you may be in the same boat again VERY soon . If you do not do it exactly as I suggest, it will void your warranty .  :lmao:


........................................................... This gear is bitchen!

..........(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/zQIAAOSwx-9Wy8B8/s-l1600.jpg)

..(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71cZwMS4GeL._SL1050_.jpg)


............................................................ This is the MSD gear

.......................................(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/Mjg2WDMwMA==/z/eoIAAOSwEeFU9RuN/$_35.JPG)


This is an MSD gear that was made in 2006

(http://www.parodycentral.net/347/MSD%20Gear1a.jpg)

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 27, 2016, 09:24:05 am
Too me (Village Idiot)  :lmao: :lmao:

The MSD looks smoother, but i guess in comparison the edges are a lot sharper. Then again the Crane gear is a much larger, detailed photo.

Before i forget, i know i need to drill the holes for the oil mod.

Will i need to still file the very small grove in the distributor shaft above the gear for additional oiling that it seems everyone recommends. I think MSD even suggest it.


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 27, 2016, 09:45:15 am
Too me (Village Idiot)  :lmao: :lmao:

The MSD looks smoother, but i guess in comparison the edges are a lot sharper. Then again the Crane gear is a much larger, detailed photo.

Will i need to still file the very small grove in the distributor shaft above the gear for additional oiling that it seems everyone recommends. I think MSD even suggest it.

The MSD has sharper edges, plus you can see machining marks on the end of the teeth . There is ZERO machining marks on the teeth on the Crane gear, but again, use whatever you want, it's not my engine.

If you needed to file a groove in the distributor shaft I would have told you so . Besides, that only works on Chevy's, so I again suggest that you stop reading other sites....unless you plan to buy a Chevy because your new $90,000.00 Landcruiser doesn't seem to run so well right now . :lmao:



Before i forget, i know i need to drill the holes for the oil mod.

And you need to measure cam end play. 





Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 27, 2016, 09:50:19 am
The MSD has sharper edges, plus you can see machining marks on the end of the teeth . There is ZERO machining marks on the teeth on the Crane gear, but again, use whatever you want, it's not my engine.

If you needed to file a groove in the distributor shaft I would have told you so . Besides that only works on Chevy's, so again, STOP READING OTHER SITES .  :lmao:

I see the difference now with that larger photo. I only asked because if thats the case i need to install a crane gear on and MSD. The install looks like it has a very small margin for error and if i get it wrong im back to square one in a few hundred K's.

And i doubt MSD will install another manufacturers gear on there products and vice versa.


 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I'm about a $1000 out of pocket for that little experiment.

Could have been worse. A new engine for one of them is around $30k  :thud:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 27, 2016, 09:59:11 am
I see the difference now with that larger photo. I only asked because if thats the case i need to install a crane gear on and MSD. The install looks like it has a very small margin for error and if i get it wrong im back to square one in a few hundred K's.

And i doubt MSD will install another manufacturers gear on there products and vice versa.


 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I'm about a $1000 out of pocket for that little experiment.

Could have been worse. A new engine for one of them is around $30k  :thud:

Just call MSD and ask them . Assuming things will not help, besides, most local shops "should" be able to install it.

For the second time  :toetapping: you shouldn't have anyone install anything until we get some measurements . If the gear on the MSD is in the wrong location for your particular setup, why would you want to have a new one reinstalled in the same incorrect location?

Still need photos of the cam plate too!
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 27, 2016, 10:47:52 am
If you are going to run the comp cam why would you not use their gear,  you may have some recourse if it fails, likely not, I suppose they will just say it was installed at the wrong height, but worth considering.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 27, 2016, 11:04:52 am
If you are going to run the comp cam why would you not use their gear,  you may have some recourse if it fails, likely not, I suppose they will just say it was installed at the wrong height, but worth considering.

Comp had a problem with the gears on their cams several years ago which they have since greatly improved on . Comp lifters suck and I no longer use them or sell them . Not everything every company makes is good . Since the gear pitch is an industry standard, imo it is far more logical to use the best gear available and avoid gear damage then it is to use the same gear from the company one gets the cam from in hopes that they will warranty it if it goes bad . Using two equally marginal parts is not as good as using one marginal one and one good one.

If the cam gear has some rough edges, it can be fixed, however, you can not do anything to fix a melonized distributor gear because it will remove the melonizing which will increase the chance that both gears will get damaged.

Crane was the first aftermarket company to come out with a melonized gear, and the quality of their products has always been very good even though Comp Cams now owns them...and Lunati....and... This gear is being run by many people on many different brands and types of cams including some 9 second drag cars and professional drag racing boats.

 

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 27, 2016, 01:06:18 pm
.
You may very well need a small one of these for a hand held drill also . They can dull sharp edges on the cam gear without really removing any metal . Even microscopic edges can cause premature wear.

...........(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51oUgKxIPYL._SY300_.jpg)

(http://www.hearth.com/talk/attachments/brush-for-drill-jpg.122033/)

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 27, 2016, 01:13:22 pm
You can see the circular groves. Very very shallow but there nonetheless.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 27, 2016, 01:17:03 pm
Ive never used a comp one, I have use both MSD and Mallory straight out of the box with steel gears and had no issue yet.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 27, 2016, 01:21:55 pm
Ive never used a comp one, I have use both MSD and Mallory straight out of the box with steel gears and had no issue yet.

That's good to know . It's definitely no fun to learn the hard way . I think that Trev or someone said the MSD and Comp steel gear are the same which they certainly could be but I don't know.

I do know that his MSD bronze gear was an Ampco 45 which is the best one available and that didn't work out so well . Many people have gotten a few years out of that gear and even more but most of them are adding additional oil to the gears and burnishing the gear on the cam.

The MSD gear has a super fine finish so burnishing that would likely be counterproductive.



Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 27, 2016, 01:26:41 pm
What issue did you have with the lifters, ? I've use a few setts of their HR lifters in recent times, last 18 months, haven't had an issue with them.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 27, 2016, 01:29:21 pm
You can see the circular groves. Very very shallow but there nonetheless.

Gallery plug looks like normal welsh plug, Is it not a screw in one?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 27, 2016, 01:31:05 pm
You can see the circular groves. Very very shallow but there nonetheless.

fuk, fuk, fuk, fuk, fuk.

your fk'n SOFT bronze gear was eating your fk'n iron block . what the fk is up with that? . oh wait, its a Chinese block .  :lmao:

it also looks like that area was not machined flat but i would need a different photo to tell . if the ridge is higher on one side then the pad was not machined flat.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 27, 2016, 01:32:49 pm
Gallery plug looks like normal welsh plug, Is it not a screw in one?

This is supposed to be  f'n dart block or something so I for one hope they are screw in . This just gets worse the more photos he posts fkn sob.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 27, 2016, 01:36:08 pm
This is supposed to be  f'n dart block or something so I for one hope they are screw in . This just gets worse the more photos he posts fkn sob.

Hmm wonder what the rest is like. Maybe send the whole thing up to Woody @ Fataz racing here in Brisbane for look over.


https://www.facebook.com/fatazcompetitionengines/ (https://www.facebook.com/fatazcompetitionengines/)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 27, 2016, 01:37:25 pm
If i lift the gear, no way im getting 0.10 in there.

See the slightly raised part on the bottom of the gear. I can only use say .003-.004 to clear that anything else hits it. If i press down with a .004 i've got to pull on it to get it out.

Not sure if that explains it well enough
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 27, 2016, 01:38:52 pm
Its ford motorsport block. Whatever that means
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 27, 2016, 01:40:23 pm
Its ford motorsport block. Whatever that means

Is it a Boss block ? are the welsh plugs in the water jacket screw in?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 27, 2016, 01:42:36 pm
If i lift the gear, no way im getting 0.10 in there.

See the slightly raised part on the bottom of the gear. I can only use say .003-.004 to clear that anything else hits it. If i press down with a .004 i've got to pull on it to get it out.

Not sure if that explains it well enough

What i am trying to figure out is whether the distributor was binding slightly when it was all new . this would wear the block out AND it would instantly kill your cam gear.

I hope you are beginning to understand why i am sounding so anal about this particular issue and realize the seriousness of it.



Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 27, 2016, 01:43:20 pm
Gallery plug looks like normal welsh plug, Is it not a screw in one?

Nah there screw in, just some oil in there
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 27, 2016, 01:44:32 pm
Is it a Boss block ? are the welsh plugs in the water jacket screw in?

Yes
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 27, 2016, 01:46:01 pm
DO YOU HAVE A DIAL CALIPER YOU CAN MEASURE THE DISTANCE FROM THE TOP OF THE BLOCK TO THE PAD AND THE BASE OF THE DISTRIBUTOR TO THE BOTTOM OF THE GEAR WITH?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 27, 2016, 01:47:58 pm
What i am trying to figure out is whether the distributor was binding slightly when it was all new . this would wear the block out AND it would instantly kill your cam gear.

I hope you are beginning to understand why i am sounding so anal about this particular issue and realize the seriousness of it.


I just want the f'n thing fixed.

Whats the plan of attack. I assume those circular grooves had to be removed ?

Or is a case of cut my loses pack it up and send it to someone else to fix. Last resort at this stage
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 27, 2016, 01:48:44 pm
DO YOU HAVE A DIAL CALIPER YOU CAN MEASURE THE DISTANCE FROM THE TOP OF THE BLOCK TO THE PAD AND THE BASE OF THE DISTRIBUTOR TO THE BOTTOM OF THE GEAR WITH?

No.

What about verniers ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 27, 2016, 01:51:55 pm
No.

What about verniers ?

You can certainly try it if you can see well enough and know how to use them.

This may or may not be a big problem . We really need to see the gear mesh with the cam in if the distance is incorrect but I'm pretty sure we can make it work.

I wouldn't worry about the rest of the engine . This is just an area that few places check and it absolutely must be checked on aftermarket blocks and distributors etc.
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 27, 2016, 01:58:33 pm
Cam retainer and timing gear
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 27, 2016, 02:04:51 pm
DO YOU HAVE A DIAL CALIPER YOU CAN MEASURE THE DISTANCE FROM THE TOP OF THE BLOCK TO THE PAD AND THE BASE OF THE DISTRIBUTOR TO THE BOTTOM OF THE GEAR WITH?

Can't do the block measurement accurately.

Distributor is around 3.9785" Approx


What's the point of building me an engine with all these big digit parts if it fails to what seems a relatively small issue that should have been done when it was assembled.

As they say a mug is born every minute  :ouch:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 27, 2016, 02:07:05 pm
.
Take a close up photo of your front cam bearing AFTER you wipe the oil out.

there should be a hole in the block on the bottom and the side that line up with the holes in the bearing.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 27, 2016, 02:09:03 pm
your photos are way too small.

is that a big wear groove in the retainer?

is that a bearing on the one side?

what is on the back of the cam gear?

what brand is it?

can you check the cam end play?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 27, 2016, 02:19:29 pm
.
Take a close up photo of your front cam bearing AFTER you wipe the oil out.

there should be a hole in the block on the bottom and the side that line up with the holes in the bearing.


just charging camera back up.

But it does line up perfectly on the bottom.

The 2 holes on the upper left and right have a hole in the bearing bit looks like the block behind them.

Holes at 10 and 2 holes in bearing only from what i can see.

Holes 6 is fine.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 27, 2016, 02:24:37 pm
your photos are way too small.

is that a big wear groove in the retainer?

I thought that too but looks to be the way it's made.

is that a bearing on the one side?

Yes

what is on the back of the cam gear?


what brand is it?

Rollmaster

can you check the cam end play?

Yeah, ill go back a few pages to find it.


How do upload larger photos ?

Imageshack or something ?

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 27, 2016, 02:42:59 pm
Fitzy no offence mate but i think you Are out off your depth. I take it the builder has wiped his hands of it ? Give Woody a call on Monday tell him Shaun Power sent you. he wont be there today they are Lakeside testing Tran-ams.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 27, 2016, 02:46:27 pm
How do upload larger photos ?

Imageshack or something ?

I don't know but yes, you can load them to image shack or flickr or the other photo bucket then post a link to them here.

I'm assuming that since I asked you four times what brand the timing gear is and you haven't answered me that you have no idea.
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 27, 2016, 02:46:51 pm
Fitzy no offence mate but i think you Are out off your depth. I take it the builder has wiped his hands of it ? Give Woody a call on Monday tell him Shaun Power sent you. he wont be there today they are Lakeside testing Tran-ams.

Yeah pretty much mate. The wanted to charge me a few grand to fix it.


f'n over it. Car owes me a small fortune with all the work in it. And it's sitting with guts out of it because of a friggin distributor  :lmao: :ouch:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 27, 2016, 02:47:55 pm
In a nutshell

Is it fixable or do i ship it off to another builder.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 27, 2016, 02:49:58 pm
In a nutshell

Is it fixable or do i ship it off to another builder.

For the second time, I'm pretty sure there will be no problem but it would be helpful to see how the gears mesh first.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 27, 2016, 02:53:20 pm
For the second time, I'm pretty sure there will be no problem but it would be helpful to see how the gears mesh first.

I assume you'll need the new cam and gear for that yeah ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 27, 2016, 02:55:41 pm
I assume you'll need the new cam and gear for that yeah ?

Yeah and so will every other builder in the world that knows what the fuk they are doing which yours obviously didn't . Ive only been ding this for 40 years but I could be wrong.

You have already done half the work  The only thing left to do is put it together as instructed . If you think you cant do that then ship it to a builder that hopefully knows how to properly set up a simply distributor gear and hand him a wad of cash, but I would make sure they warranty their work in writing this time. . Good luck with that .  :lmao:
.
 
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 27, 2016, 03:05:52 pm
Yeah and so will every other builder in the world that knows what the fuk they are doing which yours obviously didn't . Ive only been ding this for 40 years but I could be wrong.

You have already done half the work  The only thing left to do is put it together as instructed . If you think you cant do that then ship it to a builder that hopefully knows how to properly set up a simply distributor gear and hand him a wad of cash, but I would make sure they warranty their work in writing this time. . Good luck with that .  :lmao:
.


I'm happy to do it and i wan't to because i've learnt a shed load already.

Just frustrated. But i guess we'll all know when i fire it up for the first time.

It will either be a relatively easy fix to a degree or a catastrophic failure  :lmao: :lmao:

Anyway, not much else until the cam arrives yeah ?

Whats the deal with the grooves in the block ? Do they have to be removed, if so how ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 27, 2016, 03:24:15 pm

I'm happy to do it and i wan't to because i've learnt a shed load already.

Just frustrated. But i guess we'll all know when i fire it up for the first time.

It will either be a relatively easy fix to a degree or a catastrophic failure  :lmao: :lmao:

Anyway, not much else until the cam arrives yeah ?

Whats the deal with the grooves in the block ? Do they have to be removed, if so how ?

It won't be a catastrophic failure...unless you possibly start drinkin heavily while you are working on it.

You can order the parts and drill your plugs and maybe get the gear pressed on and remove the cork and rubber gasket from the front of the engine.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 27, 2016, 04:00:24 pm
Rightio.

Give me time to put the new seats, carpet, dash, gauges etc



Settle down everyone, i've got all that covered.

Won't need another 500 page thread

 :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 27, 2016, 05:43:50 pm
Wouldn't hurt to give Woody a call anyways, if you are concerned, 073245 4450. They do a lot of the historic racing stuff, Group N, Trans-am, Old Bathurst heritage touring cars, they had one of the Benson & Hedges cosworth Ford Sierra's there last week for an engine rebuild. My concern is they may not have done other stuff correctly.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 27, 2016, 06:16:26 pm
ok, that groove is in the front . if that is from wear, something is f'd up. . you may need a double bearing timing set.

(http://diyford.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/074.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 27, 2016, 06:24:35 pm
ok, that groove is in the front . if that is from wear, something is f'd up. . you may need a double bearing timing set.

(http://diyford.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/074.jpg)

Ok, ill mount it that way and check the clearance.

How does that happen ?

I just haven't been able to find any plates with that groove so i can only assume it's wear

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 27, 2016, 06:26:09 pm
check it what way?

i posted how to check it?

do NOT ever put that cam in the block again.


TIMING CHAIN

You need a Rollmasteer CS10025 if that is a wear groove.

It has TWO bearings.



Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 27, 2016, 06:38:29 pm
check it what way?

i posted how to check it?

do NOT ever put that cam in the block again.


TIMING CHAIN

You need a Rollmasteer CS10025 if that is a wear groove.

It has TWO bearings.

With the groove facing the front.


I don't know why but i can get .010 in with no resistance up to .013 depending on where i put the feeler gauge but if move around to different points i'm lucky to get .008 in a couple of spots.

not sure if that makes sense
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 27, 2016, 06:55:07 pm
did you follow my instructions exactly?

if that is a wear groove, you should have at least .020" clearance.

only you can tell what it is and if you are wrong, say goodbye to your new cam and dist gear after about an hour.

you still haven't told us if those are bearings.

maybe its just better if you spend another $200.00 for a new one.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 27, 2016, 07:06:28 pm
did you follow my instructions exactly?

if that is a wear groove, you should have at least .020" clearance.

only you can tell what it is and if you are wrong, say goodbye to your new cam and dist gear after about an hour.

you still haven't told us if those are bearings.

maybe its just better if you spend another $200.00 for a new one.


put the plate on, groove facing cam gear, mount the gear, turn it upside down.

measure between the plate and the cam

yes they are bearings

one side has that groove in it, the other has the bearings

HA... what's another $200  :thud:  :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 27, 2016, 07:19:10 pm
put the plate on, groove facing cam gear, mount the gear, turn it upside down.

measure between the plate and the cam

yes they are bearings

one side has that groove in it, the other has the bearings

HA... what's another $200  :thud:  :lmao: :lmao:

kinda looks like both sides should of had bearings .  :lmao:

you may be able to just buy a standard plate for $20.00 then sell the set on Ebay for $80.00 or something . If that is a Crane, I think it is $280.00 usd.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 27, 2016, 10:06:02 pm
Cut your losses whip it out send it up to Fataz. Its  serious engine with some good stuff in it, if you are not confident dont risk any more damage
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 28, 2016, 09:01:45 am
.
ok, I just looked at your dist shaft again . take a look at bottom of which is the top in the photo . some F###in retard ground a slight taper on it with a f'n bench grinder . i now take back what i said about your builder . they are totally incompetent .  :lmao:

you really need to put it back in the hole without the clamp and grab the gear and try to wiggle the shaft . if it wiggles much at all, it is a bad thing.

...................(http://www.mustang.org.au/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=28973.0;attach=10326;image)


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 28, 2016, 09:36:14 am
.
ok, I just looked at your dist shaft again . take a look at bottom of which is the top in the photo . some F###in retard ground a slight taper on it with a f'n bench grinder . i now take back what i said about your builder . they are totally incompetent .  :lmao:

you really need to put it back in the hole without the clamp and grab the gear and try to wiggle the shaft . if it wiggles much at all, it is a bad thing.

...................(http://www.mustang.org.au/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=28973.0;attach=10326;image)


I actually saw this yesterday and never thought to ask because given the distributor problems i assumed it was wear.

I'll have a look
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 28, 2016, 09:41:24 am
if that is wear, your block is f'd up.

try to use a mirror and flashlight to look in the distributor hole at the lower portion and see how it looks.

you might need to try an un-butchered dist in it.

the wear marks should be around 15 mm on the very bottom and 15 mm just under the gear and should only remove the colored coating.

the end of the shaft should have a very slight taper for only 3 mm.

(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/QtsAAOSwFNZW0Snm/s-l1600.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 28, 2016, 09:42:27 am
That's not wear that's been ground down .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 28, 2016, 09:48:15 am
That's not wear that's been ground down .

Why would anyone grind it down ??
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 28, 2016, 09:51:46 am
I'm guessing the block may not be machined correctly and the disy wouldnt turn
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 28, 2016, 09:54:55 am
Why would anyone grind it down ??

Because they are F###in RETARDS!

I is possible that the lower hole in the block for the distributor shaft was not plunged all the way thru which is possible but highly unlikey.

it is also possible that they gave the job of installing the distributor to the guy that dumps the trash and sweeps the floor and when it did not go in all the way because he did not have the oil pump drive lined up, he thought the hole in the block was tight so he ground it down for clearance.
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 28, 2016, 09:59:49 am
It is a Windsor dizzy and not a modified clevo dizzy right .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 28, 2016, 10:04:17 am


It is also possible that they gave the job of installing the distributor to the guy that dumps the trash and sweeps the floor and when it did not go in all the way because he did not have the oil pump drive lined up, he thought the hole in the block was tight so he ground it down for clearance.
.


 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I just said the exact same thing to the Mrs.


He has been building engines for 40+ years and unless he was having a few  :beer: i can't see him making simple errors that someone with that experience would make with the distributor.

Which made me think maybe once the engine was done, it was passed on for other people in the shop to finish off.

So should i add a new distributor to the list  ???  :toetapping: :toetapping: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 28, 2016, 10:05:24 am
It is a Windsor dizzy and not a modified clevo dizzy right .

PN# 8352 pro billet

289/302 ready to run.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 28, 2016, 10:16:43 am
I take that question back as I was only joking  :thumb:   I meant to say a Chevy dizzy  :lmao:   :cry:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 28, 2016, 10:27:31 am
He has been building engines for 40+ years and unless he was having a few  :beer: i can't see him making simple errors that someone with that experience would make with the distributor.

i have seen that happen before, HOWEVER, that engine has HIS NAME ON IT . This means that he is still ultimately responsible and if he gave it to his retard to finish, he himself is retarded for doing that.

this is not a $5,000.00 ebay engine . you paid at least 3 times that, therefore he should have done the ENTIRE engine himself s he is still a f'n idiot either way.

The shop i was involved in warranteed the work so even if the lot boy fkd something up, the shop still had to warranty it.

We will see if you need a distributor.

1. Inspect the hole to see if there is damage at the bottom or casting flash as though the hole was not bored all the way thru.

2. Borrow or steal another distributor to install.

Measure the od of the bottom of the shaft.

If the shaft is silver, color it with black felt pen or dykem.

Install the distributor . You may have to rotate the rotor slightly to get the oil pump drive to engage . If you have to force the dist downward, the hole is fkd.

If it goes in, install the clamp

Try to lift up on the distributor shaft . If the shaft does not lift, remove the clamp.

Rotate the dist 10 turns.

Remove dist and post a photo of the shaft.



amore for that than i hdt

Which made me think maybe once the engine was done, it was passed on for other people in the shop to finish off.

So should i add a new distributor to the list  ???  :toetapping: :toetapping: :lmao:
[/quote]
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 28, 2016, 10:29:43 am
I take that question back as I was only joking  :thumb:   I meant to say a Chevy dizzy  :lmao:   :cry:
ummm GLENN, don't ya think it's just a little to early to be hittin the sauce? . (http://www.mustang.org.au/forum/Smileys/smilies/beer2.gif)

 :lmao:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 28, 2016, 10:30:40 am
ummm GLENN, don't ya think it's just a little to early to be hittin the sauce? . (http://www.mustang.org.au/forum/Smileys/smilies/beer2.gif)

 :lmao:

 :agree:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 28, 2016, 10:45:22 am
The slight raised bit on the bottom of the distributor gear. Is that supposed to sit on the pad in the block ? or is it supposed to have a bit of clearance.

I assume thats what has ground those grooves in the block
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GEOFF289 on February 28, 2016, 10:49:20 am
PN# 8352 pro billet

289/302 ready to run.

You probably want the 83521 as it comes with the steel gear.

http://www.msdignition.com/Products/Distributors/Ford/83521_-_Ford_289-302_Ready-To-Run_Distributor_Steel_Gear.aspx (http://www.msdignition.com/Products/Distributors/Ford/83521_-_Ford_289-302_Ready-To-Run_Distributor_Steel_Gear.aspx)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 28, 2016, 10:56:44 am
You probably want the 83521 as it comes with the steel gear.

http://www.msdignition.com/Products/Distributors/Ford/83521_-_Ford_289-302_Ready-To-Run_Distributor_Steel_Gear.aspx (http://www.msdignition.com/Products/Distributors/Ford/83521_-_Ford_289-302_Ready-To-Run_Distributor_Steel_Gear.aspx)


If they installed the bronze gear themselves has it not been put on with the proper clearances ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 28, 2016, 11:25:29 am
The slight raised bit on the bottom of the distributor gear. Is that supposed to sit on the pad in the block ? or is it supposed to have a bit of clearance.

I assume thats what has ground those grooves in the block.

The gear rides on the block, HOWEVER, many people set them up incorrectly so they do not rids on the block and seem to have no prob with breaking the pin.

The gear is forced downward by the rotation of the cam.

There is "supposed" to be oil coming upward thru that hole to lubricate the block where the gear rides.

Your block is worn because it either has low nickel content or there was no clearance when the gear was first installed . This is the clearance I was having you check but you don;t have the tool for it.

If the gear is binding on the block a little, it will wear the block and destroy the gear...hmmm.

If it is binding a lot, it will simply break the pin in the dist gear.

My guess at this point is that the height of the pad in the block is slightly high and the end play of the distributor is too small and the gear was binding a little when it was installed . This would explain everything.

My other guess is that the groove in the front of your cam retainer is intentionally machined into it . This would also explain why you can get no ore than around .014" feeler gauge in there.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 28, 2016, 11:42:41 am
Pull it out and send it to Woody and Rob, who knows what else they did/didn't do. Have them strip it and freshen it up . who knows what the crank clearances etc are. Send them the lot including the disy, worn cam et etc, tell them how you want it run rpm bands etc, and let Woody pick the cam and fix whats Broken shit
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on February 28, 2016, 11:47:08 am
I totally agree Shaun  :thumb:  Stop mucking around and get this thing done correct .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: mert on February 28, 2016, 12:44:05 pm
No way, why get it done when you can post hundreds of replies twiddling about the issue...  :smile01:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 28, 2016, 12:57:49 pm
No way, why get it done when you can post hundreds of replies twiddling about the issue...  :smile01:

If your happy to write me a cheque for min $3k by all means. :lol:

That's the min i've been quoted by over 1/2 dozen shops. Sky's the limit according to one shop.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 28, 2016, 01:03:04 pm
If your happy to write me a cheque for min $3k by all means. :lol:

That's the min i've been quoted by over 1/2 dozen shops. Sky's the limit according to one shop.

...and these all come with a 90 day warrantee!  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 28, 2016, 01:03:58 pm
.
...or was that a 90 second warrantee? .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 28, 2016, 01:07:40 pm
If your happy to write me a cheque for min $3k by all means. :lol:

That's the min i've been quoted by over 1/2 dozen shops. Sky's the limit according to one shop.

Oh...I forgot . This forum isn't for learning what is wrong with a car and how to fix it . . It is simply a referral forum where you can find out where to take it to pay someone else to fix it for you.  :thumb:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 28, 2016, 01:12:46 pm
If your happy to write me a cheque for min $3k by all means. :lol:

That's the min i've been quoted by over 1/2 dozen shops. Sky's the limit according to one shop.

Is that just labor only to do the repair or is that to completely disassemble and reassemble it etc?

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 28, 2016, 01:19:33 pm
I'd say 3k would be close to the money assuming the rest is ok. I just think you've picked tuff gig to learn how to build an engine, not like its stock engine. A high end engine  that may or may not screwed together right.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 28, 2016, 01:28:46 pm
$3k was probably the average and it was a very big "maybe" so it could be $4k -$5k who the frig knows.

That was only gear and cam, disassembly, etc. But there was tune and dyno time on top of that.

So all in all i may as well have a blank cheque ready.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 28, 2016, 01:46:31 pm
$3k was probably the average and it was a very big "maybe" so it could be $4k -$5k who the frig knows.

That was only gear and cam, disassembly, etc. But there was tune and dyno time on top of that.

So all in all i may as well have a blank cheque ready.

That would easily be $2000 more to tear the entire engine apart then for a grand total of $5000.00.

If you dropped that off at our shop in the US and we changed the cam and distributor gear, the labor would have been around $1600.00 usd or $2245.00 aud and this would have included PROPERLY setting up the gear mesh AND it would have come with a warranty.

I need to move to oz so I can charge way more AND not be held responsible for my work . Your mechanics have it made over there.

 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 28, 2016, 01:54:09 pm
That would easily be $2000 more to tear the entire engine apart then for a grand total of $5000.00.

If you dropped that off at our shop in the US and we changed the cam and distributor gear, the labor would have been around $1600.00 usd or $2245.00 aud and this would have included PROPERLY setting up the gear mesh AND it would have come with a warranty.

I need to move to oz so I can charge way more AND not be held responsible for my work . Your mechanics have it made over there.

 :lmao:

Mechanics are like plumbers here... :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 28, 2016, 01:56:39 pm
.
If I do find out that the Crane gear is 001" too small, you can have any regular machine shop ream it out another .001" but they would need the dist also.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 28, 2016, 06:20:06 pm
.001 you could just put it in the oven, for 20 min, put the shaft in dry ice will slide straight on

 Barrent things cost more because the minimum wage is higher. Min wage here is about $18, just to flip burgers. Shops can be held responsible but you have to take them to small claims court, not worth the effort. Suck it up and move on. Any decent shop will be charging well over $100 an hour. Not to mention the local importer of parts rape you as well. In real terms it probably works out the same all considered. Particularly if you consider our health care and subsidized pharmaceuticals, government provided old age pension etc.  Also as an employer you have to pay about 9% on top of the wages into a government approved superannuation fund for the employ. When I worked for Telstra they paid 18% I think its all relative, and you dont have to worry about the company going broke and running off with your money.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 28, 2016, 06:54:05 pm
Barrent things cost more because the minimum wage is higher. Min wage here is about $18, just to flip burgers. Shops can be held responsible but you have to take them to small claims court, not worth the effort. Suck it up and move on. Any decent shop will be charging well over $100 an hour. Not to mention the local importer of parts rape you as well. In real terms it probably works out the same all considered. Particularly if you consider our health care and subsidized pharmaceuticals, government provided old age pension etc.  Also as an employer you have to pay about 9% on top of the wages into a government approved superannuation fund for the employ. When I worked for Telstra they paid 18% I think its all relative, and you dont have to worry about the company going broke and running off with your money.

shaun, i based the $1600.00 at 16 hours at $100.00 an hour and we have to pay 35% of the employees wages.

if we pay a guy $10.00 an hour, we have to pay the gov $3.50.00 so we pay $13.50. we pay a guy $1,000.00 we pay an additional $350.00 so we actually pay $1350.00.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 28, 2016, 07:04:16 pm
.001 you could just put it in the oven, for 20 min, put the shaft in dry ice will slide straight on

what it looks like is that msd makes an off size of .468 so you have to use their gears . the crane gear size is more common.

the melonized gears can not be heated over maybe 400 degrees or it will damage the coating and an additional .001 of interference may be too much to overcome.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 28, 2016, 07:19:38 pm
Fitzy, my plan is to have at least .002" - .003" clearance between the gear and the block and then check gear mesh at that point and if the gear needs to go up, just move it up until it's happy.

you can not do this on a stock ford distributor because they do not use ball bearings, however, chevy has been doing this since they first started making the V8 and possibly since before that and you can do the same thing with any bal bearing distributor which your msd and some others are.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 28, 2016, 07:23:32 pm
what it looks like is that msd makes an off size of .468 so you have to use their gears . the crane gear size is more common.

the melonized gears can not be heated over maybe 400 degrees or it will damage the coating and an additional .001 of interference may be too much to overcome.


Right, so looks like its MSD steel gear then.

What if anything do i do about the butchered shaft ? Will it effect anything ? If it will, ill have to find out if they can replace the shaft.

Failing that, new f'n distributor i'd say.

I'm going to phone the builder tomorrow regardless and try and get some answer as to why anyone there would do that.

It also looks like its been ground on the bottom as well, so i can only assume the shaft has been shortened also.

Is it also normal to cut and grind the vacuum advance canister off as well ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 28, 2016, 07:34:26 pm

Right, so looks like its MSD steel gear then.

I already said i wouldn't do that but do whatever you want.


What if anything do i do about the butchered shaft ?

we need more photos and the photo with the felt pen on it . you only photod one side.


Will it effect anything ?

see answer above


If it will, ill have to find out if they can replace the shaft.

we will see.


Failing that, new f'n distributor i'd say.

we will see.


I'm going to phone the builder tomorrow regardless and try and get some answer as to why anyone there would do that.

also tell them the gear was too low on the shaft and this caused it to bind and you want them to pay for the parts.


It also looks like its been ground on the bottom as well, so i can only assume the shaft has been shortened also.

how special . send them photos and a bill for $1000.00 in parts.


Is it also normal to cut and grind the vacuum advance canister off as well ?

You gotta be F###in kidding . and this guy is one of the better race engine builders . my fkn grandma could do a better job and shes blind almost blind.

i would hate to see what a shitty engine builders engine looks like. .  :lmao:
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 28, 2016, 07:41:51 pm
Fitzy, my plan is to have at least .002" - .003" clearance between the gear and the block and then check gear mesh at that point and if the gear needs to go up, just move it up until it's happy.

you can not do this on a stock ford distributor because they do not use ball bearings, however, chevy has been doing this since they first started making the V8 and possibly since before that and you can do the same thing with any bal bearing distributor which your msd and some others are.


Well at least that's a start, sounds good to me.


Should i start a new thread for that or keep with this one ?  :lol:


Might have to break out the  :nopity: otherwise.  :lmao:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 28, 2016, 07:43:26 pm
I already said i wouldn't do that but do whatever you want.


we need more photos and the photo with the felt pen on it . you only photod one side.


see answer above


we will see.


we will see.


also tell them the gear was too low on the shaft and this caused it to bind and you want them to pay for the parts.


how special . send them photos and a bill for $1000.00 in parts.


You gotta be F###in kidding . and this guy is one of the better race engine builders . my fkn grandma could do a better job and shes blind almost blind.

i would hate to see what a shitty engine builders engine looks like. .  :lmao:
.


It has the lockout fitted but there is all these grind marks near it and on the distributor housing

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 28, 2016, 07:54:14 pm
Oh i didn't tell ya's about the vacuum canister ?  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

 :cry:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 28, 2016, 07:55:33 pm
They  have ground bottom face because it was hitting the clip that stops the drive shaft, coming out. I assume it has an arp pump drive? You often you often have to move the clip down a bit just to get the shaft in.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 28, 2016, 07:59:17 pm
I didn't notice this till recently.

I understand things have to modified etc.

Looks like my 5 yr old went to town with a Dremel.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 28, 2016, 08:01:17 pm
They  have ground bottom face because it was hitting the clip that stops the drive shaft, coming out. I assume it has an arp pump drive? You often you often have to move the clip down a bit just to get the shaft in.

no ya don't, ya can just grind the bottom of the dizzy down cuz thats obviously what the "professionals" do .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 28, 2016, 08:05:04 pm
I didn't notice this till recently.

I understand things have to modified etc.

Looks like my 5 yr old went to town with a Dremel.

OMG...pleeeease stop, I think I just peed my pants!

(http://www.picgifs.com/graphics/l/laughing/graphics-laughing-867787.gif)



Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 28, 2016, 08:07:04 pm
............. Man, this is way better than watchin GLENN Lawn Bowl!

...................(http://thatschurch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Popcorn-09-Psych.gif)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 28, 2016, 08:28:31 pm

Hell, even this Chinese one would fit better!

(http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/xlarge/pnx-d131810_xl.jpg?rep=False)

.....................(http://www.mustang.org.au/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=28973.0;attach=10335;image)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 28, 2016, 08:56:27 pm
Why didnt they just buy a pro billet without vac advance they come either way.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on February 28, 2016, 09:18:29 pm
Why didnt they just buy a pro billet without vac advance they come either way.

Why when they can just do a hatchet job on the one they had.

It's "custom" made  :lmao:


Seriously it's lucky i have a sense of humor about all this.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 28, 2016, 09:39:19 pm
It's "custom" made  :lmao:


And those are just some of the extra, special touches you get when you pay $18,000.00 for a "custom", "high performance" engine.

 .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 28, 2016, 09:40:44 pm
.
oh...by the way...will you be taking your $90,000.00 Landcruiser to pick up parts in...or the rental?


OMG...there goes my spleen!

(http://www.picgifs.com/graphics/l/laughing/graphics-laughing-867787.gif)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 29, 2016, 05:12:15 am
.
WHAT IS THE EXACT DIAMETER OF YOUR DISTRIBUTOR SHAFT BELOW THE GEAR?

WHAT IS THE DIAMETER OF THE RAISED PAD ON THE BOTTOM OF THE GEAR?


I forgot to mention, that chinese distributor has a, 500" gear shaft and Crane just happens to make a .500" gear...hmmm.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-36971-1/overview/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-36971-1/overview/)


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on February 29, 2016, 06:07:54 pm
You can buy this or call Summit and buy it direct . Ask if shipping to oz is free if you buy it thru Ebay and ask about shipping time.

Shaft size is .467 so the Crane gear will fit.


Ebay Pertronix p/n D130810 polished black HEI cap . $225.00 usd . $314.00 aud.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PerTronix-Distributor-D131810-/331724858510?hash=item4d3c57a48e:g:AOUAAOSwHQ9WYeY0 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PerTronix-Distributor-D131810-/331724858510?hash=item4d3c57a48e:g:AOUAAOSwHQ9WYeY0)


Ebay Pertronix p/n D130811 polished red HEI cap . $225.00 usd . $314.00 aud.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PerTronix-Distributor-D131811-/331724858505?hash=item4d3c57a489:g:TBMAAOSw8-tWYeZo (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PerTronix-Distributor-D131811-/331724858505?hash=item4d3c57a489:g:TBMAAOSw8-tWYeZo)


Summit Pertronix p/n D130810 polished black HEI cap . $254.00 usd . This price should be $225.00 usd

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-d130810/overview/make/ford (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-d130810/overview/make/ford)


Summit Pertronix p/n D130811 polished red HEI cap . $225.00 usd . $314.00 aud.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-d130811/overview/make/ford (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-d130811/overview/make/ford)


Ebay Crane p/n 360970-1 .467 melonized steel gear . $80.00 usd . $111.00 aud

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/36970-1-Crane-Cams-369701-Crane-Steel-Distributor-Magneto-Drive-Gear-/181789517385?hash=item2a537fe649:g:ncQAAOSwLVZVktfe (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/36970-1-Crane-Cams-369701-Crane-Steel-Distributor-Magneto-Drive-Gear-/181789517385?hash=item2a537fe649:g:ncQAAOSwLVZVktfe)


Summit Crane p/n 360970-1 .467 melonized steel gear . $72.00 . $101.00

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-36970-1/overview/make/ford (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-36970-1/overview/make/ford)






Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on February 29, 2016, 09:40:43 pm
I got some new pro billets here Ill measure one, and a Mallory comp 42 which is steel gear brand new, But its been ratted for the module and cap, your if you want it.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 01, 2016, 10:27:08 am
.
CAMSHAFT

Here's the cam in stock on their shelf and it is $30.00 less than Summit and they will ship it direct to you . Shipping cost might be $60.00 unless you want 3 day air.

Make sure this is the same cam number i gave you before.

They have a toll free number but it will not work from oz . call 920-233-1176 in your morning and ask for Eric.

http://www.competitionproducts.com/Howards-Mechanical-Roller-Camshaft-Ford-SB-221-302-351W/productinfo/220183-10/#.VtTO9ub4NLM (http://www.competitionproducts.com/Howards-Mechanical-Roller-Camshaft-Ford-SB-221-302-351W/productinfo/220183-10/#.VtTO9ub4NLM)


I called Howards and they said both of their cam machines broke 6 weeks ago but should have them fixed soon, lol.


CRANE CAM GEAR

Here is a list of Crane dealers in oz . Call and ask if they have the gear in their shop . Ask if it comes with a roll pin.

http://www.cranecams.com.au/index.php/where-to-buy (http://www.cranecams.com.au/index.php/where-to-buy)

Crane p/n 36970-1

Snausage actually has one in stock.

.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: lukep6470 on March 01, 2016, 02:31:22 pm
WRT the dizzy.  Remember he has to clear quad webers with it.  It will have to be a small dia cap distributor. 

I'm not sure why the base of your old one was butchered like that.

BTW what block do you have.  My Dart SHP had a grub in the oil passage that hit a stock distributor but a MSD billet cleared fine.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 01, 2016, 03:51:55 pm
BTW what block do you have.  My Dart SHP had a grub in the oil passage that hit a stock distributor but a MSD billet cleared fine.

This means the MSD was improperly designed.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: lukep6470 on March 02, 2016, 12:49:01 pm
The MSD is a different shape around the non critical bits, that why it snuck past.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 02, 2016, 02:02:13 pm
The MSD is a different shape around the non critical bits, that why it snuck past.

xlnt.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 15, 2016, 10:23:10 am
Knock on the door this morning, it was like xmas  :pepper: :pepper:

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1658/25169982433_7b8c9b8def_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EmbJSn)2016-03-15_10-06-30 (https://flic.kr/p/EmbJSn) by peter FITZPATRICK (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 15, 2016, 04:12:53 pm
that is too dark . please post a better photo.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 16, 2016, 11:44:56 am
GET THE LONG BOLT TO INSTALL THE CAM WITH

CHECK THE CAM END PLAY THE WAY I DESCRIBED
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 11:51:52 am
All parts have arrived......   :evilone:


I want another 20 pages on this thread by the end of the weekend....  :lol:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 12:08:23 pm
All parts have arrived......   :evilone:


I want another 20 pages on this thread by the end of the weekend....  :lol:

xlnt, now...the end of the cam with the threaded hole goes in last .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 12:09:57 pm
.
...and the gear goes on the end of the cam.  :hi:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 12:10:49 pm
.
Well is it in yet?  :bolt:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 12:11:32 pm
xlnt, now...the end of the cam with the threaded hole goes in last .  :lmao:

Now, now...  :toetapping:


MEASURE THE VERY END OF THE DISTRIBUTOR SHAFT THAT GOES IN THE HOLE IN THE BLOCK

MEASURE IT 25 MM UP FROM THE BOTTOM.


And ????


The new gear slides on a little tighter than the old one but i could still do it by hand though
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 12:15:06 pm
.
Well is it in yet?

Funny, i was asked the same thing by my wife the other day after one to many drinks ?  :wtf:


 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 12:16:17 pm
Now, now...  :toetapping:


MEASURE THE VERY END OF THE DISTRIBUTOR SHAFT THAT GOES IN THE HOLE IN THE BLOCK

MEASURE IT 25 MM UP FROM THE BOTTOM.


And ????


The new gear slides on a little tighter than the old one but i could still do it by hand though


Hey, at least it will be easy to install.  :lmao:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 12:18:08 pm
guess you'll be lookin fur a machine shop.

there is another way to fix it but but it is kinda tricky.

just stuff your cam in for now, we'll deal with distributor after the cam is in.

do NOT install the cam gear.

DID YOU DRILL THE HOLES IN THE GALLEY PLUGS YET?

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 12:20:33 pm
guess you'll be lookin fur a machine shop.

there is another way to fix it but but it is kinda tricky.


FFS !! :cry:


Righto,

Whats the other way ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 12:52:06 pm

FFS !! :cry:


Righto,

Whats the other way ?


You need a small, very sharp punch . a 2 x 4 and a hammer . and a lot of skill or luck.

your shaft has 3 steps, if you have a punch, lay the distributor on its side on a rag then shim the shaft up until it is parallel to the work bench, then whack the middle step ABOVE where the top of the gear would g as a test the post a photo of it.









Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 12:59:41 pm

You need a small, very sharp punch . a 2 x 4 and a hammer . and a lot of skill or luck.

your shaft has 3 steps, if you have a punch, lay the distributor on its side on a rag then shim the shaft up until it is parallel to the work bench, then whack the middle step ABOVE where the top of the gear would g as a test the post a photo of it.

ok,

Is the punch facing straight down or at an angle to lift the metal as i assume this is what we are hoping to do
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 01:11:53 pm
Cam is in, no stingy lube job either  :lol:

Found it easier to get back in than out.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 01:20:17 pm
Cam is in, no stingy lube job either  :lol:

Found it easier to get back in than out.

xlnt, and i told you it would be easier to get back in than out . you are on the downhill run now . i told ya you could do it :thumb:

do NOT punch it at an angle.

hit it with light force at first . it only needs to raise it a tiny bit because you will be punching it maybe 20 times if this works . if your shaft is hard it might not work.

...ok, this is starting to sound a little gay.




Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 01:36:27 pm
Yes, very gay..

" Not that there is anything wrong with that"


Punch works well.

Where am i punching it in relation to the gear and roll pin hole ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 01:36:42 pm
.
punch it one time where i told you then post a photo . it you punch it too hard, the gear will not go on and you will have to file a little.

the distributor s the most difficult part and i have been avoiding it like the plague.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 01:44:16 pm
.
punch it one time where i told you then post a photo . it you punch it too hard, the gear will not go on and you will have to file a little.

the distributor s the most difficult part and i have been avoiding it like the plague.


I can't get a decent photo where you can see it clear enough.

But the gear does catch on it pretty well so with 20 or so it will definitely be a tight fit.


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 01:54:19 pm
ok, put a punch mark between the pin holes, then clamp the end of the shaft that is closest to the distributor in a vice but put a rag around the shaft.

put some assembly lube on the part that the gear will be then install the gear to around the same distance the other one was

next you will install the distributor WITHOUT the clamp but push it down until it is seated.

next try to put your thinnest feeler gauge between the gear and the block . then push down lightly on the top of the shaft then try to remove the feeler gauge.

you want the gear so it is around .005" from the block but because your block pad is now grooved, this will be hard to measure.

after this, you can install the front cam gear and barely tighten the bolt, then put white grease on the dist gear and install it then rotate the cam one full turn then post a photo of the dist gear.

NEVER EVER BEAT ON THE SHAFT UNLESS IT IS IN A VICE OTHERWISE YOU WILL INSTANTLY RUIN THE DISTRIBUTOR BEARINGS



Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 02:20:00 pm
ok, put a punch mark between the pin holes, then clamp the end of the shaft that is closest to the distributor in a vice but put a rag around the shaft.

put some assembly lube on the part that the gear will be then install the gear to around the same distance the other one was

next you will install the distributor WITHOUT the clamp but push it down until it is seated.

next try to put your thinnest feeler gauge between the gear and the block . then push down lightly on the top of the shaft then try to remove the feeler gauge.

you want the gear so it is around .005" from the block but because your block pad is now grooved, this will be hard to measure.

after this, you can install the front cam gear and barely tighten the bolt, then put white grease on the dist gear and install it then rotate the cam one full turn then post a photo of the dist gear.

NEVER EVER BEAT ON THE SHAFT UNLESS IT IS IN A VICE OTHERWISE YOU WILL INSTANTLY RUIN THE DISTRIBUTOR BEARINGS


Installed the gear to spot on with the roll pin hole. Clearance is around .005 but as you said the pad isn't exactly flat as there is a small lip on the outside so the feel gauge goes in on a very slight angle which obviously makes it a bit touch and go.

I'll have to go and get some white grease. Did have some but i cant find it
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 02:30:58 pm
do you have any liguid white out or white or yellow spray paint?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 02:59:07 pm
do you have any liguid white out or white or yellow spray paint?

Yeah, do you just want the paint on the raised gear area or the whole thing ?  :lol:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 03:18:19 pm
it needs to be on the face of the gears and the ends . white out may work best . if you use paint, you can dry it with the ol ladys blow dryer .

oh, by the way, how's that gas powered land cruiser running?  :lmao:

you should also paint a 3 teeth on the cam gear also and try to take a photo of both gears with the distributor installed.

told ya this was gonna be a pita.
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 03:49:36 pm
it needs to be on the face of the gears and the ends . white out may work best . if you use paint, you can dry it with the ol ladys blow dryer .

oh, by the way, how's that gas powered land cruiser running?  :lmao:

you should also paint a 3 teeth on the cam gear also and try to take a photo of both gears with the distributor installed.

told ya this was gonna be a pita.
.

Ignore the yellow. Best i photo i can get.

The yellow is off the cam gear, thought it would contrast better against white

Looks like it's meshing with the lower part of the gear ?


(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1575/25755327251_ee59b2817d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FeUMup)2016-03-17 15.44.27 (https://flic.kr/p/FeUMup) by peter FITZPATRICK (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 04:01:12 pm
ok what did you put on it?

what is that yellow crap?

the paint is not deep enough in the gears . paint the crap out of it.

i  can't quite tell but it looks like the gear is maybe 2 mm too low . this part is critical so i would clean it off and do it again.

when you rotate the cam, turn it clockwise as you face the front of the engine and grab the top of the dist shaft and try to keep it from turning easily . this will make the marks easier to see.

also next time, rotate the shaft 180 degrees after you take the first photo and take another one.

are ya havin fun yet?

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 04:09:00 pm
This is fuk'd   :ouch:

 :lmao:



Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 04:36:21 pm
This is fuk'd   :ouch:

 :lmao:

told ya so!  :therethere:

this is exactly why the idiot that built your $18,000.00 engine didn't do it.  :shrug:

i guess you just didn't pay him enough. :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 04:43:45 pm
.
...it is a very nice photo though .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 04:49:43 pm
The black is the assembly lube.

It looks to be even on a lot of gears. My guess is there isn't enough lube on some of the cam gear to make the impression in parts.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1510/25756109241_0ce1013308_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FeYMWZ)2016-03-17_04-41-28 (https://flic.kr/p/FeYMWZ) by peter FITZPATRICK (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1460/25825166696_d7b5cf6c67_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Fm5JjL)2016-03-17_04-40-42 (https://flic.kr/p/Fm5JjL) by peter FITZPATRICK (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1599/25825160816_240b29484d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Fm5Gzo)2016-03-17_04-40-17 (https://flic.kr/p/Fm5Gzo) by peter FITZPATRICK (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 04:57:34 pm
the paint aint gonna work  :cry:

do you have white out?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 05:00:33 pm
the paint aint gonna work  :cry:

Say what now..

Most of the gears mesh top to bottom in the same spots.

I'll have to photograph the whole bloody gear though
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 05:02:38 pm
Say what now..

do you have liquid white out?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 05:05:56 pm
do you have liquid white out?


I knew you were going to say that.

Nope, only the tape stuff.

No one uses liquid white out man, get with the times....  :kickass:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 05:07:35 pm


I knew you were going to say that.

Nope, only the tape stuff.

No one uses liquid white out man, get with the times....  :kickass:

sorry, don't need to get with the times cuz MY CAR RUNS .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 05:09:38 pm
sorry, don't need to get with the times cuz MY CAR RUNS .  :lmao:

i'll have to do a supermarket mission in the diesel/petrol hybrid..

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 05:14:00 pm
looks like.

get white grease and liquid white out.

the good thing is that i don see anything horrible.

how do the edges of that gear compare t the pertronix gear.

post a photo of the crane after it is clean.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 05:31:13 pm
looks like.

get white grease and liquid white out.

the good thing is that i don see anything horrible.

how do the edges of that gear compare t the pertronix gear.

post a photo of the crane after it is clean.

Alright, got "white out" because that's what all the cool kids are using apparently.

Have to get white grease tomorrow, longer drive.

So for the 300th time, ill clean it and put the white out on it
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 05:33:39 pm
ok try the white out you might not need the grease.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 05:39:22 pm
wtf are all the marks below the gear that look like tiny punch marks?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 05:43:57 pm
wtf are all the marks below the gear that look like tiny punch marks?

It's just the photo

Can't see anything by looking at it
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 05:49:09 pm
It's just the photo

Can't see anything by looking at it

thats good.

it looks like the gears might have a lot of engagement and be cut nearly identical which would be a good thing.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 05:57:39 pm
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1577/25221636124_89c9677b0d_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EqKtHf)2016-03-17_05-50-03 (https://flic.kr/p/EqKtHf) by peter FITZPATRICK (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1542/25551414080_45ec719dff_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EVTFd5)2016-03-17_05-47-30 (https://flic.kr/p/EVTFd5) by peter FITZPATRICK (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1442/25551406420_79c30a950c_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EVTCW1)2016-03-17_05-46-52 (https://flic.kr/p/EVTCW1) by peter FITZPATRICK (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr


Looks to be pretty even and that's positioned exactly where the stock gear was
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 06:03:50 pm
are you holding the shaft on top to put more force in it?

i would stick it back in and turn it some more but put the clamp on it.

put some white out on the bottom to make sure it isnt hitting the block.

we may have a winner but i want to be certain
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 06:18:01 pm
are you holding the shaft on top to put more force in it?

Yes

i would stick it back in and turn it some more but put the clamp on it.

Done, Looks the same

put some white out on the bottom to make sure it isnt hitting the block.

we may have a winner but i want to be certain

Put it on the bottom, not touching at all. Still at about .005


Excellent !!!

I think i may have just pee'd a little..

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 06:22:05 pm
Excellent !!!

I think i may have just pee'd a little..

i meant are you holding the DISTRIBUTORS shaft? .  :lmao:

better get some extra saucy depends.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 17, 2016, 06:23:24 pm
Gee Dean and Jerry,  you guys have been busy . Or are you the skipper and Gilligan ? Or   maybe Fred and Barney is more like it   :thumb:    Good job tho  :grin:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 06:27:19 pm
Gee Dean and Jerry,  you guys have been busy . Or are you the skipper and Gilligan ? Or   maybe Fred and Barney is more like it   :thumb:    Good job tho  :grin:

you forgot bob and bing and laurel and hardy!

he's friggen close but he ain't gonna like what he has to do next .  :lmao:

tha crane gear is friggen bitchen and that cam gear is friggen bitchen . he cant even get them to cut thru the white out completely they are so friggen smooth.

now he can see why i was so adamant about getting the crane gear.

i'm having him suspend the gear above the dist pad in the block because the bronze gear ate the f'n block so he needs a hard roll pin.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 06:27:53 pm
i meant are you holding the DISTRIBUTORS shaft? .  :lmao:

better get some extra saucy depends.

Yes.

Gripping the shaft tightly..
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 06:28:51 pm
Gee Dean and Jerry,  you guys have been busy . Or are you the skipper and Gilligan ? Or   maybe Fred and Barney is more like it   :thumb:    Good job tho  :grin:

Glenn just let me know when you want an engine or two screwed together, im all over it now....  :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 06:30:56 pm


he's friggen close but he ain't gonna like what he has to do next .  :lmao:



If you ask me to paint another bloody thing white...
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 17, 2016, 06:33:59 pm
Bob and who ,and Laurie hardy ? Sorry don't know them , they must be before my time and maybe before most on here . :grin: But Barnett please don't tell us about them we don't need another 21 page thread  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 06:40:34 pm
Bob and who ,and Laurie hardy ? Sorry don't know them , they must be before my time and maybe before most on here . :grin: But Barnett please don't tell us about them we don't need another 21 page thread  :lmao:

Going by the number of thread views we are bringing a lot of traffic through the forum  :lmao: :lmao:

If you ain't first ya last Glenn..
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 17, 2016, 06:43:07 pm
Thread views ,well nothing else gets on to look at , hey Gilligan
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 06:46:01 pm
Glenn just let me know when you want an engine or two screwed together, im all over it now....  :lmao: :lmao:

ummm...your distributor gear is far from installed just yet   :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 06:49:24 pm
ummm...your distributor gear is far from installed just yet   :lmao:

FFS, what else is there...

Pin in, away we go...
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 17, 2016, 06:53:25 pm
Barnett will think Gilligans island is Australia now  :thud: . Hey Fitzy you should have brought Barnett over to the island for a free trip to fix your engine and have a sleep over  :lmao: . Think of all typing time you would have saved ,but wait there is still time its only a 13.5 hr flight .  :grin:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 06:54:35 pm
FFS, what else is there...

Pin in, away we go...

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

 :lmao:

not a f'n chance.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 07:05:11 pm
Barnett will think Gilligans island is Australia now  :thud: . Hey Fitzy you should have brought Barnett over to the island for a free trip to fix your engine and have a sleep over  :lmao: . Think of all typing time you would have saved ,but wait there is still time its only a 13.5 hr flight .  :grin:

Then he wouldn't leave...

Place is paradise compared to AZ..  :lmao: :lmao:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 17, 2016, 07:14:57 pm
No he is in CA  , left AZ  years ago ,well might have been asked too anyway  :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 07:15:52 pm
Then he wouldn't leave...

you wouldn't want me to leave when you saw how cute i am.  :thumb:


Place is paradise compared to AZ..  :lmao: :lmao:

What?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 07:19:04 pm
No he is in CA  , left AZ  years ago ,well might have been asked too anyway  :lmao: :lmao:

They had no proof cuz the Rabbit done died.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 17, 2016, 07:21:03 pm
Nothing wrong with AZ and nothing right with it either  :grin:  typical yank ,thinks Australia is just the outback  :toetapping:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 07:21:50 pm
No he is in CA  , left AZ  years ago ,well might have been asked too anyway  :lmao: :lmao:


Ahhh...

CA huh?

Rubbing shoulders with Bruce, i mean "Cait"  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 07:29:22 pm

Ahhh...

CA huh?

Rubbing shoulders with Bruce, i mean "Cait"  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

That's not all I'm rubbin with him...uh I mean her....or is that "it".

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 07:34:14 pm
That's not all I'm rubbin with him...uh I mean her....or is that "it".


C'mon mate, what's next  ?!?!

Your getting side tracked with your guys with t@#s fetish..   :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 07:34:29 pm
.
......................................................................... PUCKER UP!

(http://i2.irishmirror.ie/incoming/article6982981.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200/TEASER-Caitlin-Jenner.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 07:52:40 pm
DO YOU HAVE A 1/8" DRILL BIT?

DOES THE DISTRIBUTOR GEAR HAVE ONE OR TWO HOLES FOR THE PIN?

YOU NEED A CARBIDE 1/8" BIT WITH A STARTER POINT

TRY TO FILE THE END OF THE ROLL PIN TO DETERMINE IF IT IS HARDENED.

CALL AROUND FOR A 1/8" SPIRAL/COILED HARDENED PIN OR SPLIT ROLL PIN
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 07:55:40 pm
You have massive psychological issues...
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 07:58:23 pm
You have massive psychological issues...

 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 08:10:10 pm
DO YOU HAVE A 1/8" DRILL BIT?

No

DOES THE DISTRIBUTOR GEAR HAVE ONE OR TWO HOLES FOR THE PIN?

One hole

YOU NEED A CARBIDE 1/8" BIT WITH A STARTER POINT

TRY TO FILE THE END OF THE ROLL PIN TO DETERMINE IF IT IS HARDENED.

Can file the end

CALL AROUND FOR A 1/8" SPIRAL/COILED HARDENED PIN OR SPLIT ROLL PIN

Will have to wait till the morning

What's the plan with the drilling....

I knew this was too good to be true. :thud:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 17, 2016, 08:37:12 pm
your pin is ttoo soft fk . . i will tell you how to drill the gear tomorrow but you cant use the existing hole in the shaft . . does this please you?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: 69ISH on March 17, 2016, 08:47:11 pm
your pin is ttoo soft fk . . i will tell you how to drill the gear tomorrow but you cant use the existing hole in the shaft . . does this please you?
Just for my own knowledge if the existing hole on the distributor shaft line up with the sprocket and the teeth are meshing properly why can you not use the existing hole?
Years ago I had a distributor that had sheared the roll pin twice and the roll pin had a split pin down the centre of it which I presumed gave it extra strength, I don't recall if the roll pins were hardened steel (Most likely not).
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 09:02:34 pm
your pin is ttoo soft fk . . i will tell you how to drill the gear tomorrow but you cant use the existing hole in the shaft . . does this please you?

1/8th, 3mm yeah ?

So i'm drilling a new hole in the shaft or the gear or both ?

Why can't i get a new pin to fit the existing hole ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on March 17, 2016, 09:17:07 pm
Just for my own knowledge if the existing hole on the distributor shaft line up with the sprocket and the teeth are meshing properly why can you not use the existing hole?
Years ago I had a distributor that had sheared the roll pin twice and the roll pin had a split pin down the centre of it which I presumed gave it extra strength, I don't recall if the roll pins were hardened steel (Most likely not).

Roll pins are generally hardened and yes you can use the old hole if all the heights work. You can break the case hardening on the gear using a 1/8 masonry bit sharpened like a speed drill once through that any speed drill will drill it once you are through the hardening. You cant keep drilling the shaft every time a bronze gear fails. My old man was a fitter & turner for years at the BP oil refinery here in Brisbane they drilled everything hard, with masonry bits sharpened, and with some drilling compound. Some of the steels there were way harder then we are talking about here way harder. I've drilled lots of Landrover Disco transfer case drive gears using this process, to do an oiling mod for the gear box main shaft and they are hard as, works every time
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 17, 2016, 09:32:13 pm
Rodney what engine was it that the roll pin broke in ?   Did it have an high volume oil pump or did you use something like penrite 50 ,was it a mallory dizzy ?  Was it a 351c ? .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on March 17, 2016, 09:48:25 pm
Rodney what engine was it that the roll pin broke in ?   Did it have an high volume oil pump or did you use something like penrite 50 ,was it a mallory dizzy ?  Was it a 351c ? .
.

With a Mallory dual point? I bet.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 17, 2016, 10:06:04 pm
Yep that's the one I was thinking of .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 17, 2016, 10:25:15 pm
When i say i could "file" it i meant i could take the black coating off the end, I didn't go to town on it with a file though.

The pin looks to be  heavy duty going off the coils.


I thought the pin was designed to sheer in the event of a major failure, a fusible link as such like an oil pump seizure etc. If it's made of hardened unobtanium etc it wouldn't sheer and grenade everything else.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 03:19:38 am
PLEASE DON'T TOUCH THE DISTRIBUTOR UNTIL I AM HERE

Unfortunately, in your particular case you can not use the same hole because you will not be able to get it to line up after you put punch marks on the shaft, therefore, you simply rotate the hole in the gear 180 degrees to the existing hole in the shaft when you reinstall it.

You are better off with a hard pin in your particular case because your pin will be taking more downward load than normal because it is not resting on the block as it was from the factory because the block got the crap ground out of it by the old gear and I cant find a hardened shim to use as a thrust washer between the gear and the block so I am turning it into a Chevy .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 03:27:47 am
Your roll  pin is also .125" which means it will not be much of a press fit in a hole that is .125".

That style of pin comes in standard duty, medium duty, and heavy duty . . You must use a drill with a starter point or you may enlarge  the hole on the gear when you drill it and then the  pin will fit to loose and you will be fkd, but you can do it however you want because if if flies out and fuks up the gears you now know how to change the cam .  :lmao:

You can also use a split roll pin which might be easier to find but that definitely needs to be a hard one or high carbon steel.

I told ya the distribotor was gonna be the worst part but there is now light at the end of the tunnel.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: 69ISH on March 18, 2016, 06:00:45 am
Rodney what engine was it that the roll pin broke in ?   Did it have an high volume oil pump or did you use something like penrite 50 ,was it a mallory dizzy ?  Was it a 351c ? .
I  am going back  28 odd years ago , it was an electronic dissy and if memory serves me right it was a msd, yes I was running a mellings high volume oil pump, it was 351 clevo that i use to turn to 7500rpm..
I  know the high volume oil pump was most likely the cause of the failure but I was just wondering why you couldn't use the existing holes which I  did and I now know why Barnett is advising not to which now makes sense.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 06:24:51 am
I was just wondering why you couldn't use the existing holes which I  did and I now know why Barnett is advising not to which now makes sense.

yeah, if the gear has a tight press fit, the only way to get it to line up with the existing hole in the shaft is by pure luck because you can not rotate the gear on the shaft, and if it is clocked just .002" off, you will never get the pin in, therefore, its simply easier to drill a new hole.

in a case where both gears match and the pres fit is very light, you can absolutely use the orig hole because you can rotate the gear on the shaft with little effort, and that is also the preferred method in these cases.

this entire deal has just been a f'n nightmare solely because the gear depth was not checked when the distributor was installed, and the incorrect depth could have easily been corrected in less than 2 friggen minutes, now even his block is fkd because of these retards so i have to do something unorthdox to prevent further damage which is also fkd.



Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 18, 2016, 09:06:36 am
 :cry:

Another day, another drama...

Ok, ill sort the bit this morning and hopefully the roll pin from somewhere.

Question though. Rotating the gear 90 degrees and drilling a new hole, wont the holes then intersect one another ? Wouldn't this weaken the the shaft?

Or am i drilling the whole below the existing one ?

Also, how tight should "press fit" be? I've read that some have needed a press, some are slight interference fit.


Ok,

Found the roll pins.

What size pin and what size and type of bits ?

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 09:14:36 am
:cry:

Another day, another drama...

Ok, ill sort the bit this morning and hopefully the roll pin from somewhere.

Question though. Rotating the gear 90 degrees and drilling a new hole, wont the holes then intersect one another ? Wouldn't this weaken the the shaft?

Or am i drilling the whole below the existing one ?

Also, how tight should "press fit" be? I've read that some have needed a press, some are slight interference fit.

Yes the holes will intersect. Yes this will weaken the shaft. No it will not bend or break with the extra hole unless you drive over it with your new, $90,000.00 multi fuel landcruiser. :lmao:

try to lightly fit the pin in the new gear by around 2 mm just for fun, the pin might be slightly larger in one direction.

You will NOT need a press to install the gear after we are done . Just don't put really deep punch marks in the shaft.

I will post exactly what you need to do in around 30 minutes . it will be easy...for ME .  :lmao:


DID THE PIN COME OUT EASY OR HARD?

DO YOU HAVE A GOOD FINE TOOTH FILE?
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 18, 2016, 09:17:22 am
Should just throw the fuk'n thing in my carry on. I'll be in CA in july  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 09:20:02 am
Should just throw the fuk'n thing in my carry on. I'll be in CA in july  :lmao:

Bummer, I will conveniently be out of town that month
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 09:21:22 am
.
...with Caitlin .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 18, 2016, 09:28:03 am
The pin from the new distributor took a bit of effort to get out. It also looks like it tapers towards one end.

The new gear wasn't overly tight though. Came off by hand after a little bit of effort

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 09:30:45 am
The pin from the new distributor took a bit of effort to get out. It also looks like it tapers towards one end.

The new gear wasn't overly tight though. Came off by hand after a little bit of effort

Ok, measure both ends of the pin then try to lightly install the smaller end 2 mm deep into the new gear.

If you can easily find a pin, you can probably use that one, HOWEVER, since it will take you a week to assemble the engine, it might still be best to order one . We can set the gear today then all you need to do is drill it.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 18, 2016, 09:33:23 am
Barnett don't leave town ,he is coming  all the way over to drink a lot of FOSTERS with you , because you like it so MUCH  :cheers:   :smilies:  :sick:  together   :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 18, 2016, 09:34:00 am
.
...with Caitlin .  :lmao:

He was busy...

In and around the Carson area
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 09:34:36 am
Barnett don't leave town ,he is coming  all the way over to drink a lot of FOSTERS with you , because you like it so MUCH  :cheers:   :smilies:  :sick:  together   :thumb:

Bummer, that's the month I detox .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 09:36:58 am
Ok, measure how far the gear is from the end of the distributor shaft . Do this several times until you get consistent readings.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 09:38:48 am
.
Put a line around the shaft with a felt pen next to the top and the bottom of the gear.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 18, 2016, 09:48:39 am
Before i do all that, do i need the new pin(s) and drill bit(s) ??

Because ill have to go now and get them, i won't have time later today.

If so what size, type, length etc of the pin

and what bit


I can get the pin into the Crane gear maybe a couple of mm or so. Crane gear only has 1 hole, no hole on the other side.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 10:04:18 am
.

Remove the gear.

Lay the distributor on its side then support the shaft under the hole in the shaft.

Rotate the shaft so the hole is facing upwards

Starting from around 10 mm below the felt pen mark, put 4 evenly spaced punch marks running the length of the shaft with the last one ending up around 10 mm above the lower pen mark.

Rotate the shaft 90 degrees and do the same thing

Rotate the shaft 90 degrees and do the same thing.

Rotate the shaft 90 degrees and do the same thing.

Take a fine file and just barely file the holes . If you do not have a fine file, you can lightly sand them with 220 thru 400 wet/dry sand paper and water or WD40.

Clean the shaft thoroughly.

Put the distributor in the refrigerator for 15 minutes.

Put the gear in the oven at 200 degrees after the distributor has been in the fridge for 10 minutes.

Remove the distributor after a total of 15 minutes then clamp the shaft next to the distributor using a rag to protect it.

Put cam oil on the shaft where the punch marks are.

Grab the gear with some gloves and clock it s the hole is around 90 degrees away from the hole in the shaft.

Install the gear . You will need a deep socket or an open end 13 to 14 mm wrench . If you use the wrench, lay it on the gear and straddle the shaft [oh sounds like fun!] with it then hid the wrench.

Put the gear at the same depth you previously measured.











Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 10:06:19 am
Before i do all that, do i need the new pin(s) and drill bit(s) ??

Because ill have to go now and get them, i won't have time later today.

If so what size, type, length etc of the pin

and what bit


I can get the pin into the Crane gear maybe a couple of mm or so. Crane gear only has 1 hole, no hole on the other side.

You need the same drill bit i told you two times you need . 1/8" COBALT or CARBIDE with a starter/pilot point . If it does not have a starter/piolot point, forget it, you will have to order one.

Try to get a pin if you can . If the pin does not say high carbon or hardened, it may break.

IF THE SMALLER END OF THE OLD PIN GOES IN THE GEAR FAIRLY EASILY, YOU NEED A NEW PIN.



(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41e2JHdTjTL._AC_UL320_SR304,320_.jpg)

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 18, 2016, 10:45:51 am
Can i use a smaller bit to put the pilot hole first ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 10:50:27 am
Can i use a smaller bit to put the pilot hole first ?

Not a chance in hell because you can not center it perfectly in the hole .  :nono:

If you vary from my instructions in any way at all, you may end up with a problem, but as i said, its you car and you will know how to change the cam on your own next time .  :thumb:

If you drill the hole in the wrong place, you will be buying another $300.00 distributor which is not a big deal because they now have plenty in stock .  :lmao:

Cutting corners is exactly why your gears blew up in the first place so i don't understand the logic of wanting to do the same thing they did .  :shrug:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 18, 2016, 11:07:19 am
No dice on the bit. Rang a few engineering supply places, nothing.

No one sells or stocks them.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 11:09:45 am
No dice on the bit. Rang a few engineering supply places, nothing.

No one sells or stocks them.

ok move on to the next thing which is the gear.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 18, 2016, 11:14:06 am
Ive got plenty of 1/8th cobalt bits, just not with that tip
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 11:17:46 am
Ive got plenty of 1/8th cobalt bits, just not with that tip

That's nice .  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 18, 2016, 11:22:40 am
That's nice .  :thumb:


I've got a rugby league luncheon to go to for a couple of hours so ill go all mad scientist on the gear when i get home..

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 11:22:56 am
.
Here, it too me around 30 seconds to find it . Includes free shipping . Should be at your door in 8 days if you buy it now.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pilot-Point-Drill-Bit-1-8-D-x-2-3-4-OAL-Cobalt-Gold-Ferrous-Oxide-Dewalt-/391390503173?hash=item5b20b12105:g:TR8AAOSwe7BWymml (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pilot-Point-Drill-Bit-1-8-D-x-2-3-4-OAL-Cobalt-Gold-Ferrous-Oxide-Dewalt-/391390503173?hash=item5b20b12105:g:TR8AAOSwe7BWymml)


This place will ship.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_689756-70-DWA1208_0__?productId=50413692 (http://www.lowes.com/pd_689756-70-DWA1208_0__?productId=50413692)
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 11:24:45 am

I've got a rugby league luncheon to go to for a couple of hours...

Is that similar to Lawn Bowling, if so then GLENN might want to join you.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 18, 2016, 11:44:17 am
Is that similar to Lawn Bowling, if so then GLENN might want to join you.

Its like NFL without the helmet and pads.

Oh and about a million times less gayness.  :thumb:

 :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 11:52:54 am
Oh and about a million times less gayness.  :thumb:

 :lmao: :lmao:

Whats the point them .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 11:53:41 am
.
I think we're boosting your thread views!
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 18, 2016, 12:00:14 pm
Hey  :itsnotfair: I can't play lawn Bowles at the moment because I have my bloody hand stitched up  :cry:   
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 18, 2016, 12:03:56 pm
.
I think we're boosting your thread views!

It's all about the numbers..

Now before you get sand in your vagina...

Hypothetically,

After i punch, heat, freeze and clean the distributor with the fur of a baby seal and everything else known to man. If i can get the holes to line up will that negate the need to drill any ?

Remember now, i said hypothetically   :shrug:



Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 12:23:45 pm
It's all about the numbers..

Now before you get sand in your vagina...

Hypothetically,

After i punch, heat, freeze and clean the distributor with the fur of a baby seal and everything else known to man. If i can get the holes to line up will that negate the need to drill any ?

Remember now, i said hypothetically   :shrug:


I'm laughin so f'n hard tears are rolling down my face so I'll have to answer whatever the hell your question is as soon as I can figure out what it is .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 12:34:36 pm
It's all about the numbers..

Now before you get sand in your vagina...

Hypothetically,

After i punch, heat, freeze and clean the distributor with the fur of a baby seal and everything else known to man. If i can get the holes to line up will that negate the need to drill any ?

Remember now, i said hypothetically   :shrug:

First of all, you would have to determine that the hole is within maybe .0015" of the required elevation, which is about as likely as Annette Funicello and Frankie Avalon havin a Beach party in my sandy crotch because its so tight.

Secondly, you can not rotate the distributor gear once it is on the shaft, otherwise it will loosen the press fit we are trying to achieve, so like Clint Estwood says, "Are ya feelin lucky...punk?".

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 02:37:23 pm
Its like NFL without the helmet and pads.

Oh and about a million times less gayness.  :thumb:

 :lmao: :lmao:

................ So I guess they just misspelled the word Hay?

..................(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSoSvyV5sfHoJFR3fOWhBJUizddI23TWNyYCsZSLz5KfBEIEhje)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 02:39:42 pm
Its like NFL without the helmet and pads.

Oh and about a million times less gayness.  :thumb:

 :lmao: :lmao:

Your right, nothin GAY about it.


.................................... Hey, let of my balls!

.........................(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTEnu2OFxFuwUlWX3NvCGei7TDuhfobo4Pu1mLPLmKcv_Ga2auHUQ)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 02:44:39 pm
Its like NFL without the helmet and pads.

Oh and about a million times less gayness.  :thumb:

 :lmao: :lmao:

Yup, nothin GAY goin on here either, just some gool old fashioned male bonding.

........................(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQmY4KWIHIonP42bstLkHgr0P2s0z7w6dbwraFWnUGpHJpdBb1I1g)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 02:49:04 pm
Its like NFL without the helmet and pads.

Oh and about a million times less gayness.  :thumb:

 :lmao: :lmao:

I know Keegan Hirst might look a little GAY here but he just pretends he is because he says it makes chicks want to try and convert him .  :lmao:

...................................(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRcUMinC_s9NbwKRtnf3ZRurhi-BUxiIs7rle-USrs4jDRa_Yck)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 18, 2016, 03:37:12 pm
 :wtf:

I'm gone for a couple of hours and the thread turns into a lemon party...
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 03:51:20 pm
:wtf:

I'm gone for a couple of hours and the thread turns into a lemon party...

That will teach ya to go anywhere.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 03:52:19 pm
.
You wanted 20 more pages, just tryin t help.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 18, 2016, 04:02:32 pm
What's a Lemon party ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 04:13:36 pm
What's a Lemon party ?

Maybe it's like a Golden Shower .  :shrug:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 18, 2016, 04:18:27 pm
I just googled it  :omg:  :sick:  say no more
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 04:22:34 pm
I just googled it  :omg:  :sick:  say no more

Which one?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 04:29:12 pm
.
.......................... Lemon party?  :shrug:

.........(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTR_ieKy-Gm-eZXBCDqO-YA0i8eAUVl889lSmKkLzcWInFyF0vEvw)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 18, 2016, 04:56:58 pm
That's a lemonade party ,you do want to know what a lemon party is ,Trust me . Lets drop the subject .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 05:19:42 pm
That's a lemonade party ,you do want to know what a lemon party is ,Trust me . Lets drop the subject .

Strawberry party?

(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT8xPzI4MS-uhyFXheHovLCzXNBByWJcFla8ulGk96-4Z4jNKdu2A)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 18, 2016, 05:28:07 pm
I just googled it  :omg:  :sick:  say no more


 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I knew it would get someone.

Sorry Glenn  :therethere:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 05:29:39 pm
.
5731 views.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 05:31:38 pm

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I knew it would get someone.

Sorry Glenn  :therethere:

Is it something Caitlin Jenner or maybe a Rugby player would enjoy, or perhaps a Lawn Bowler?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 05:32:56 pm
.
Does it have something to do with Lemon Pie?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 18, 2016, 05:33:42 pm
.
Lemon Meringue Pie?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 19, 2016, 06:58:25 am
Hey, you should be done by now or are you still at your lemon party?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 19, 2016, 02:01:37 pm
Afternoon,

Tied it on yesterday with a few too many   :cheers:  :sick:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 19, 2016, 02:27:05 pm
Afternoon,

Tied it on yesterday with a few too many   :cheers:  :sick:

Was that before or after your fruit party with the Rugby players whom are a zillion times less gay than NFL players?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: gazzab055 on March 19, 2016, 02:49:23 pm
You need to start a new thread like " Do you need to put air in your tyres?"

Had an interesting occurrence a few decades ago. My friends engine reconditioning business had rebuilt a dual overhead camshaft cylinder Toyota Celica head for a RAAF know it all but had to quiz him on how he was degreeing the cams on fitting the head as he had bent the valves. He thought you just bolted it on and throw the belt on it. What is mostly obvious to many who play with engines is totally outside of others ken!
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 19, 2016, 03:20:54 pm
Was that before or after your fruit party with the Rugby players whom are a zillion times less gay than NFL players?

After mate, after..

Trying to work out where we are up to with this heap of junk...

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 19, 2016, 04:14:08 pm
After mate, after..

 :thumb:


Trying to work out where we are up to with this heap of junk...

1. Order the drill . I posted 2 places you can get it from . Lowes may deliver it sooner.

2 Do your distributor now as I previously described then drill it after you get the drill.

3. After you have the gear in place, clean the teeth then put white out on them and on the bottom.

4. Install the distributor with the clamp and recheck the clearance between the gear and the block while pushing down on the top of the shaft with moderate force . You do NOT need the pin installed to do this unless it installed easily, which it shouldn't have.

5. If there is between .003" and .006" clearance the best you can measure it, install the cam gear, hold the distributor shaft and spin the cam gear clockwise maybe 20 times.

6. Post a photo of the gear.

7. Assuming all is well, put it away.

8. Remove the timing chain gear.

9. Remove and drill the lifter galley plugs and drill them if you haven't yet.

10. Put cam oil on the cam distributor gear and thrust surfaces and bearings on the cam, the timing chain gear and the bearings on the retainer plate.

11. Install the retainer plate bolts and torque to proper spec . You can use blue Loc Tite if you want.

12. Make sure the 0 mark on the lower timing chain gear is pointing straight upwards.

13. Rotate the top gear so the 0 mark on it is facing directly downwards.

14. Rotate the cam so the pin clocked so it will align with the hole in the gear.

15. Install the timing chain on both gears.

16. Move both gears a little at a time until both are fully seated . It is sometimes necessary to tap the cam gear lightly to get it on, however, do NOT hammer on it or the timing chain itself.

17. Put the car in 3rd gear with the parking brake on and torque the cam bolt . Use some blue Loc Tite if you have it.

18. Pour engine oil on the timing chain.

19. Put engine oil on the lifters and install the lifters.

20. Put engine oil on the ends of the push rods and install them.

21. Install the the rocker arms . If you did NOT turn the adjusting screws out 2 turns as I previously suggested, you must do this first.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on March 19, 2016, 04:52:53 pm
Put moly grease or cam/engine assembly, Lucas etc  lube on the gear so it has something slippery on it while it beds in. Penrite make a moly assembly lube, I use this on the push rods, gears etc etc
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 19, 2016, 04:59:35 pm
Put moly grease or cam/engine assembly, Lucas etc  lube on the gear so it has something slippery on it while it beds in. Penrite make a moly assembly lube, I use this on the push rods, gears etc etc

He has some Penrite cam break in/assembly oil he could use, however those chains are prestretched so that helps some.
.


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on March 19, 2016, 05:02:12 pm
He has some Penrite cam break in/assembly oil he could use, however those chains are prestretched so that helps some.
.

MSD give you a tube of lube for the gear in the box now
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 19, 2016, 05:12:31 pm
:thumb:


1. Order the drill . I posted 2 places you can get it from . Lowes may deliver it sooner.

2 Do your distributor now as I previously described then drill it after you get the drill.

3. After you have the gear in place, clean the teeth then put white out on them and on the bottom.

4. Install the distributor with the clamp and recheck the clearance between the gear and the block while pushing down on the top of the shaft with moderate force . You do NOT need the pin installed to do this unless it installed easily, which it shouldn't have.

5. If there is between .003" and .006" clearance the best you can measure it, install the cam gear, hold the distributor shaft and spin the cam gear clockwise maybe 20 times.

6. Post a photo of the gear.

7. Assuming all is well, put it away.

8. Remove the timing chain gear.

9. Remove and drill the lifter galley plugs and drill them if you haven't yet.

10. Put cam oil on the cam distributor gear and thrust surfaces and bearings on the cam, the timing chain gear and the bearings on the retainer plate.

11. Install the retainer plate bolts and torque to proper spec . You can use blue Loc Tite if you want.

12. Make sure the 0 mark on the lower timing chain gear is pointing straight upwards.

13. Rotate the top gear so the 0 mark on it is facing directly downwards.

14. Rotate the cam so the pin clocked so it will align with the hole in the gear.

15. Install the timing chain on both gears.

16. Move both gears a little at a time until both are fully seated . It is sometimes necessary to tap the cam gear lightly to get it on, however, do NOT hammer on it or the timing chain itself.

17. Put the car in 3rd gear with the parking brake on and torque the cam bolt . Use some blue Loc Tite if you have it.

18. Pour engine oil on the timing chain.

19. Put engine oil on the lifters and install the lifters.

20. Put engine oil on the ends of the push rods and install them.

21. Install the the rocker arms . If you did NOT turn the adjusting screws out 2 turns as I previously suggested, you must do this first.

Awesome,  :thumb:

With 21, i was going to ask about this. Is that because they have the internal oil hole in the rocker ? I vaguely remember something from T&D about this with the shaft mount rockers.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 19, 2016, 05:30:14 pm
Awesome,  :thumb:

With 21, i was going to ask about this. Is that because they have the internal oil hole in the rocker ? I vaguely remember something from T&D about this with the shaft mount rockers.

You have to back the screws out so the lifters aren't holding any valves open and don't run any valves into the pistons.

I told you t back the screws out when you disassembled it so you wouldn't have to do it later and wouldn't have to wonder if you did it.

If you have a printer, print the instructions out and check each one off as you do it.

Once the cam gear is properly located and tested for fit again, the rest of it will easily fly together . If the gear ain't right, you can plan on doing this again real soon..
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 19, 2016, 07:36:00 pm
You have to back the screws out so the lifters aren't holding any valves open and don't run any valves into the pistons.

I told you t back the screws out when you disassembled it so you wouldn't have to do it later and wouldn't have to wonder if you did it.

If you have a printer, print the instructions out and check each one off as you do it.

Once the cam gear is properly located and tested for fit again, the rest of it will easily fly together . If the gear ain't right, you can plan on doing this again real soon..
.

Ahh ok.

I know T&D have a specific process for the setup for those screws for the internal oiling, i just can't find it.

Will the 2 turns out etc account for that on reassembly ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 19, 2016, 07:57:28 pm
Ahh ok.

I know T&D have a specific process for the setup for those screws for the internal oiling, i just can't find it.

Will the 2 turns out etc account for that on reassembly ?

Turn the screws out 2 turns if you did no do it earier as i suggested.

After you turn them out you can reinstall them.

Put each cylinder o top dead center fire position before you install them.

if they start to compress a valve as you install them STOP.

I will tel you how to easily find tdc for each cylinder tomorrow but it will help if you have a cloth measuring tape.

.


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 20, 2016, 08:16:11 pm
Is there only one hole on the crane gear for a reason ?

We drill through the other side ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on March 20, 2016, 09:15:39 pm
Is there only one hole on the crane gear for a reason ?

We drill through the other side ?

 the hole is a guide you drill all the way through
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 21, 2016, 08:47:45 am
Xlint.

Found a bloke with a small machine shop that will happily drill the distributor and gear for me for free over the next couple of days.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 21, 2016, 09:25:02 am
Xlint.

Found a bloke with a small machine shop that will happily drill the distributor and gear for me for free over the next couple of days.

That's all fine and dandy AFTER you punch the shaft then install the gear then check it as i suggested.

Also, it must be drilled with the gear on it and it must be drilled with a 1/8" bit . I guarantee you with 110% certainty that if he uses a metric bit, you will in fact be buying another new $350.00 distributor and $100.00 gear.

If you remove the gear, i will ruining the punching.

Again, you can not cut corners on this.
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 21, 2016, 01:50:06 pm
That's all fine and dandy AFTER you punch the shaft then install the gear then check it as i suggested.

Also, it must be drilled with the gear on it and it must be drilled with a 1/8" bit . I guarantee you with 110% certainty that if he uses a metric bit, you will in fact be buying another new $350.00 distributor and $100.00 gear.

If you remove the gear, i will ruining the punching.

Again, you can not cut corners on this.
.

I explained it all to him and he knew what i was talking about. He said he'll pin it for me also.


I'll set the gear today, check the mesh and clearances again and take it to him.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 21, 2016, 01:54:59 pm
I explained it all to him and he knew what i was talking about. He said he'll pin it for me also.


I'll set the gear today, check the mesh and clearances again and take it to him.

so he has a hardened roll pin?

this should be interesting!

we'll be waiting for photos in a while.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 21, 2016, 02:08:04 pm
so he has a hardened roll pin?

this should be interesting!

we'll be waiting for photos in a while.


Apparently.

I explained it all to him and he said no worries, has done it before.


Has a smaller mill he'll drill it with, more accurate apparently.



I remember you asked about the difference between the stock steel gear and the crane. Can easily see the difference between them, the Crane is so much smoother. I can feel the sharp edges on the stock one whereas on the Crane, nothing. Just visually it looks so much better.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 21, 2016, 03:08:02 pm
I remember you asked about the difference between the stock steel gear and the crane. Can easily see the difference between them, the Crane is so much smoother. I can feel the sharp edges on the stock one whereas on the Crane, nothing. Just visually it looks so much better.

xlnt...see, i told ya so . that crane gear is killer.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 22, 2016, 01:47:54 pm
Ok, got your message . Now we all want to see this fancy ass gear with the pin actually installed.  :toetapping:

Still could have drilled it yourself for only $10.00 aud ya chicken.  :therethere:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 22, 2016, 02:18:30 pm
Glenn, you ok ?

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 22, 2016, 02:20:38 pm
Ok, got your message . Now we all want to see this fancy ass gear with the pin actually installed.  :toetapping:

Still could have drilled it yourself for only $10.00 aud ya chicken.  :therethere:


I could have, but that's 2 schooners at the pub this afternoon  :cheers:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 22, 2016, 03:05:16 pm
Glenn, you ok ?

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I think he's still trying to get his computer screen clean.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 22, 2016, 03:45:29 pm
I think he's still trying to get his computer screen clean.

With fire.. :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 22, 2016, 03:58:51 pm
With fire.. :lmao:

Probably so if the disinfectant doesn't work.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 22, 2016, 04:10:31 pm
What are you clowns on about ? 
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 22, 2016, 04:23:48 pm
What are you clowns on about ?

Your little google search the other day...  :lmao:

Don't forget to clear the browser history mate, might raise a few questions at home...  :grin:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 22, 2016, 04:26:48 pm
Your little google search the other day...  :lmao:

Don't forget to clear the browser history mate, might raise a few questions at home...  :grin:

Oh, my, I hope we haven't brought back that horrible memory for him .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 22, 2016, 04:29:07 pm
.
Can you get a virus downloading that type of stuff or just a mild yeast infection?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 22, 2016, 06:37:45 pm
Any advice on getting the lower timing gear on without a sledge hammer  :lmao:

It's super tight before its even engaged the keyway. And i dont want to damage the chain.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 22, 2016, 06:52:48 pm
Nothing from me about this anymore . :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 22, 2016, 07:17:06 pm
Any advice on getting the lower timing gear on without a sledge hammer  :lmao:

It's super tight before its even engaged the keyway. And i dont want to damage the chain.

ummm, well, yeah, when you take your distributor to your machinist friend, just take the gear with you so he can hone it our around .0005" because the nose on your crank is too large because it is Chinese .  :lmao:

...and no, im not kidding .  :lmao:


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 22, 2016, 07:21:19 pm
.
what do you expect for only $18,000.00

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 22, 2016, 07:24:23 pm
.
Hey GLENN, how's your $8,000.00 engine running? . I hear you've only had it going for around 5 years or so!
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 22, 2016, 07:30:39 pm
.
Hey, if you have one of these you can simply trim down the crank some.

SURVEY

Has this information been useful to you?

a. Yes
b. Absolutely
c. No doubt about it!


.............................. (https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTTxa4G3sHuYojyBI28F-BM1roWc49Qt_GyArv--VP0OrdXBbQp)


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 22, 2016, 07:35:22 pm
About 6 years and what $8,000 ,not that much mate . :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 22, 2016, 07:37:56 pm
Chinese ?

It's something like a $2,500 crank...  :thud:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 22, 2016, 07:45:39 pm
Chinese ?

It's something like a $2,500 crank...  :thud:

what crank is it exactly?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 22, 2016, 07:46:47 pm
.

maybe you should have bought a $4000.00 one them .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 22, 2016, 07:47:12 pm
Came on Barnett help him out here . 
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 22, 2016, 07:51:15 pm
Came on Barnett help him out here .

I did, i pm'd him and told him to simply put his gear in the oven at 985 f for around 10 minutes and it should slip right on .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 22, 2016, 07:52:44 pm
.
I also asked him to measure the old gear and the new one but he said he can't but I will let him tell you why .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 22, 2016, 07:54:01 pm
.
I bet that $3000.00 to have someone else do this is lookin pretty good to him right about now.   :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 22, 2016, 07:55:56 pm
Do you guys have an emergency number to dial in case someone has a stroke?  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 22, 2016, 08:24:46 pm
I did, i pm'd him and told him to simply put his gear in the oven at 985 f for around 10 minutes and it should slip right on .  :lmao:


I told you, ill swing by the local crematorium in the morning to borrow one of there ovens for 10-15.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 22, 2016, 08:27:38 pm

I told you, ill swing by the local crematorium in the morning to borrow one of there ovens for 10-15.

You might have to share the oven.  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 22, 2016, 08:29:47 pm
what crank is it exactly?

Callies Magnum from memory
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 22, 2016, 08:41:26 pm
Callies Magnum from memory

ok, so your american crank is crap, or your aussie gear is . they might have honed the other gear out to get it on.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on March 22, 2016, 09:35:35 pm
Callies are good cranks, make no mistake, Is it a Compstar perhaps?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 23, 2016, 04:51:36 am
Shaun, his old roll master crank gear came off fairly easy . his new one won't go on . he cant measure the gears because he broke his calipers.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 23, 2016, 08:09:51 am
Callies are good cranks, make no mistake, Is it a Compstar perhaps?

I remember seeing Magnum on some paperwork way back. Was probably over kill.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 23, 2016, 08:16:16 am
I remember seeing Magnum on some paperwork way back. Was probably over kill.

yeah, it has bigger journals which is why your gear doesn't fit .  :lmao:

did your calipers fix themselves yet .  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 23, 2016, 08:16:59 am
Shaun, his old roll master crank gear came off fairly easy . his new one won't go on . he cant measure the gears because he broke his calipers.

The other crank gear was tight, i used a puller to squeeze it off.

This one goes on till about the crank key then gets tight, it moves a couple of mm if i tap it but i don't want to cause damage to the gear or chain.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 23, 2016, 08:35:55 am
ok, you said sledge hammer.

remove the gear.

inspect the crank AND key CLOSELY for even a tiny flaw and fix it with a fine file if you see one.

Take some 280 grit wet/dry sandpaper and water or wd40 and sand the inside of the gear heavily . this will smooth any little machining burs or ridges etc.

put the gear in the oven at 300 f for 15 minutes.

put assembly oil on the crank.

install the gear with ease.
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 23, 2016, 08:39:34 am
ok, you said sledge hammer.

remove the gear.

inspect the crank AND key CLOSELY for even a tiny flaw and fix it if you see one.

Take some 280 grit wet/dry sandpaper and water or wd40 and sand the inside of the gear heavily . this will smooth any little machining burs or ridges etc.

put the gear in the oven at 300 f for 15 minutes.

put assembly oil on the crank.

install the gear with ease.
.


Well, i figured it would be tight but taping it 10 times to move it a mm or so seemed a bit extreme.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 23, 2016, 08:50:14 am

Well, i figured it would be tight but taping it 10 times to move it a mm or so seemed a bit extreme.

yes, it is . do what i said and it will go right on.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 23, 2016, 04:03:18 pm
.

.
(http://www.mustang.org.au/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=28973.0;attach=10310;image)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 23, 2016, 06:24:11 pm
.

.
(http://www.mustang.org.au/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=28973.0;attach=10310;image)

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Yes, i need to cut them..

 :lmao:


And i need to wet sand the gear a heap more, it fits a little easier but is still very tight. With no movement at the bottom it's impossible to get enough play to fit the top gear on the cam.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 23, 2016, 07:07:20 pm
you didn't put it in the oven did you?

more sanding won't hurt
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 23, 2016, 07:27:35 pm
you didn't put it in the oven did you?

more sanding won't hurt

Yes, yes i did...
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 24, 2016, 04:11:30 am
Yes, yes i did...

no you didn't .  :lmao:

clean your pan before you install the gear.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 24, 2016, 07:09:19 am
Ok, another day, another drama . PLEEEASE tell us you didn't touch anything yet.

I think you need a guardian .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 24, 2016, 09:33:31 am
Ok, another day, another drama . PLEEEASE tell us you didn't touch anything yet.

I think you need a guardian .  :lmao:

What now ?

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 24, 2016, 10:56:44 am
What now ?

Nothing, just clean the pan as described then install the lower gear after you sand it more and the timing chain and quit dropping stuff in the pan .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 24, 2016, 12:19:39 pm
Nothing, just clean the pan as described then install the lower gear after you sand it more and the timing chain and quit dropping stuff in the pan .  :lmao:

Shhhhh,  :toetapping:

No one needs to know about that..  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 24, 2016, 12:31:39 pm
Shhhhh,  :toetapping:

No one needs to know about that..  :lmao:

know about what .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 24, 2016, 12:34:29 pm
Well what fell into the sump/pan   :lmao: .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 24, 2016, 12:36:41 pm
Well what fell into the sump/pan   :lmao: .

 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 24, 2016, 12:37:35 pm
.
Hey Fritzy, do all aussies work as slow as you do?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 24, 2016, 01:08:04 pm
.
Hey Fritzy, do all aussies work as slow as you do?

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Redundancy from mining means i'm very much a man of leisure these days.

I'm a bit like those filthy Queenslander's any slower i'd go backwards some days....  :lmao: :lmao:  :bolt:

 
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 24, 2016, 01:13:49 pm

I'm a bit like those filthy Queenslander's any slower i'd go backwards some days....  :lmao: :lmao:  :bolt:

Are they the same as Lawn Bowlers?

..............(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQxrzb8HBrb2tRceOM2ynK0s_2scE8yD3T-bP5rBeVRbm-yPCSp)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 24, 2016, 02:04:35 pm
Are they the same as Lawn Bowlers?

..............(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQxrzb8HBrb2tRceOM2ynK0s_2scE8yD3T-bP5rBeVRbm-yPCSp)


Yeah, they come up with this genius...  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/455/248/009.png (http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/455/248/009.png)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 24, 2016, 02:07:39 pm

Yeah, they come up with this genius...  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


Is that because they have no indoor bowling alleys?

Plese don't tell me that was a real ad for their train.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 24, 2016, 02:20:56 pm
Is that because they have no indoor bowling alleys?

Plese don't tell me that was a real ad for their train.


Yeah, there 20 years behind the rest of us..


No, Queensland Rail came up with these posters on rail etiquette that came across really condescending so people took to making a joke out of them.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 24, 2016, 02:44:38 pm
Happy now ?  :lol:

Are the dots close enough ? Or a is it 1 tooth off ?


(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1604/25387493854_e491d64276_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EFpxrh)2016-03-24_02-38-22 (https://flic.kr/p/EFpxrh) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 24, 2016, 02:52:28 pm
By that photo the crank doesn't look spot on anyway .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 24, 2016, 02:56:52 pm
By that photo the crank doesn't look spot on anyway .

I thought that too, i think its the angle i took the photo on
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 24, 2016, 02:59:11 pm
yup thats it?

did you clean the pan?

why does the top gear look dirty?

how did the bottom gear go on?

did you put oil on the crank first?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 24, 2016, 03:04:47 pm
yup thats it?

That's it ???

Is it right, wrong ?  :shrug:

did you clean the pan?

Yesir

why does the top gear look dirty?

Just my grubby paw prints

how did the bottom gear go on?

A lot better, a couple of tiny taps

did you put oil on the crank forst?

Liberally
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 24, 2016, 03:06:44 pm
that top gear has wax or something . that shit has to come off but it is on the back side of the gear too.

ROTATE THE CRANK A HAIR AND IT WILL LINE UP.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 24, 2016, 03:10:07 pm
Did you find what you were looking for in the pan?

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 24, 2016, 03:17:17 pm
that top gear has wax or something . that shit has to come off but it is on the back side of the gear too.

I had assembly lube on my hands, i wiped it down but it just looks grubby.

I cleaned everything before it went on.

ROTATE THE CRANK A HAIR AND IT WILL LINE UP.

 :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 24, 2016, 03:18:26 pm
Did you find what you were looking for in the pan?


Ahhhh, no....

 :thud:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 24, 2016, 03:20:03 pm
clean that shit off of the top cam gear . its on the backside too.

there's a bunch of crap on the chain too.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 24, 2016, 03:25:16 pm
clean that shit off of the top cam gear . its on the backside too.

there's a bunch of crap on the chain too.

It's oil/lube from my hands.

So, take the whole lot off and clean it ? huh ?

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 24, 2016, 03:29:25 pm
look at the photo

the gear looks like it has a white wax on it

look a the left side just below the center, it is lumpy so something is on it.

the chain looks like t has sand on it.

what is all this crap?

oil is ok but theres more than oil on it.

your gear should look clean like this

(http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server5000/532b6/products/221/images/1152/RM_SBF_TCS__14750.1354721505.1280.1280.jpg?c=2)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 24, 2016, 03:38:30 pm
look at the photo

the gear looks like it has a white wax on it

look a the left side just below the center, it is lumpy so something is on it.

the chain looks like t has sand on it.

what is all this crap?

oil is ok but theres more than oil on it.

Ok, i took the photo with my phone. There is nothing but oil/lube on the gear and chain, the reflections etc from the sun make it look like that.

I've been making sure i keep everything clean.

If it's meant to look like that than ill have to wet sand the whole thing.  :lmao:

The old one was the same colour
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 24, 2016, 03:51:10 pm
If it's meant to look like that than ill have to wet sand the whole thing.  :lmao:


Do you have some 600 grit paper?  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 24, 2016, 03:52:26 pm
did the pin stick out that far on the other cam?

put the cam bolt in now.

then follow the list
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 24, 2016, 03:54:45 pm
Do you have some 600 grit paper?  :lmao:

You better be joking ?



With the lifters, i couldn't take them out so can i just pour some oil on them ?

Oil on the push rods or assembly lube on the tips ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 24, 2016, 04:01:20 pm
You better be joking ?



With the lifters, i couldn't take them out so can i just pour some oil on them ?

Oil on the push rods or assembly lube on the tips ?

its all on the list .

regular engine oil on everything else.

pour oil on the chain.

put oil on the cam bolt and use a torque wrench on the cam bolt
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 24, 2016, 04:11:13 pm
its all on the list .

regular engine oil on everything else.

pour oil on the chain.

put oil on the cam bolt and use a torque wrench on the cam bolt

Just making sure

40 ft lbs ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on March 24, 2016, 04:14:00 pm
I loctite the cam bolt and retainer plate
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 24, 2016, 04:15:35 pm
Just making sure

40 ft lbs ?

40 if its orig . 45 if its an ARP


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 24, 2016, 04:16:58 pm
I loctite the cam bolt and retainer plate

just put oil on the bolt if you havent installed it yet.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 24, 2016, 04:23:20 pm
just put oil on the bolt if you havent installed it yet.

Loctite and 45lbs

Done..


Lifters are oiled and back in.



Annndd that's where i'll have to leave it for today.

Gotta pick the mrs up from work and hit the shops.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 24, 2016, 04:26:43 pm
Gotta pick the mrs up from work and hit the shops.

You mean they haven't fixed your landcruiser yet or you banned her from driving?  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 24, 2016, 04:39:15 pm
You mean they haven't fixed your landcruiser yet or you banned her from driving?  :lmao:

Nah it's fixed.

My sister is borrowing it for a few days.


She has a 6 mth old Nissan Juke, driving home from work the other day she lost all power, brakes, steering etc and ran off the road at about 80km/h.

Turns out the alternator bracket that is cast as part of the engine sheared cleanly off, the bracket was still attached to the alternator leaving it flapping in the breeze..

Obviously a major safety issue which is probably why that afternoon her car was being transported to the engineering department at Nissan's head office.

Lucky girl..

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 24, 2016, 04:42:46 pm
I put loctite on that bolt also ,had one come loose on a 351c once ,NOT NICE ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: J.hatzivalsamis on March 24, 2016, 04:46:39 pm
Is this a record for the most pages posted????????? Interesting topic though.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 24, 2016, 04:48:11 pm
No just the normal for Barnett  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 24, 2016, 04:49:25 pm
And before this thread started I didn't need reading classes ,DO NOW  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 24, 2016, 05:14:14 pm
Is this a record for the most pages posted????????? Interesting topic though.

Interesting... as in my mechanical ineptitude ?

Or Barnett's people skills ???  :lmao: :lmao:  :lmao:

 :bolt:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 24, 2016, 06:03:16 pm
Is this a record for the most pages posted????????? Interesting topic though.

Which one?  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 24, 2016, 06:06:56 pm
Interesting... as in my mechanical ineptitude ?

No just your reading comprehension skills.  :thumb:


Or Barnett's people skills ???  :lmao: :lmao:  :lmao:

 :bolt:

Hey...I have great people skills but wipe, just ask me.   :lmao:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 24, 2016, 06:08:47 pm
.
Hey, weren't you supposed to be shopping for a dress with your wife something?

By the way, what size you you wear?  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 24, 2016, 06:11:12 pm
.
Wonder how many pages to will take to adjust the valves.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 24, 2016, 08:45:02 pm
.
Wonder how many pages to will take to adjust the valves.

Oh yeah, im really looking forward to that...  :thud:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 25, 2016, 05:08:31 am
timing cover installation instructions coming in around 2 hours.

leave the seal in it.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 25, 2016, 07:36:51 am
.
Ok, lets have fun . I hope you bought the exact sealers i told you to.

i dont even know how to explain this easily but if you f it up, you will have a big oil leak so hopefully someone else will have a better idea.

read this a few times before proceeding . it should take YOU around 1 hour to do.

If you work too slowly, the silicone will dry and you will have leaks.


CAREFULLY install the cover . you need to have it raised around 6 mm above the oil pan so the gasket does not drag on the block . once it is lightly against the block, push the cover down lightly onto the block . this is a practice run for the final assembly which will give you a feel for what you need to do.

put assembly oil on the end of the crank and the crank keyway after you pour oil on the chain.

clean the crap out of the pan and timing cover gasket surface with brake cleaner or lacquer thinner or mek.

use a q-tip to clean the tiny recessed channels in the timing cover where the curved part meets the flat part . this is where the tiny ends of the rubber seal push into . you might need a tiny screwdriver to dig out any old sealer . you can scratch the crap out of all these surfaces all you want.

install one end of the rubber seal into that slot then carefully push around 1/2 of the seal into the cover . there is a tiny lip on each side of the rubber seal that you may need to push into the slot with a small screw driver but be careful not to cut it.

now take the short cork gasket and insert the tiny tab on the end of it into the formed channel in the end on the rubber seal . this is how this needs to end up before you install the timing cover.

make sure the bolt hole in the cork lines up with the bolt hole in the cover and that the end of the cork gasket is flush with the end of the timing cover . if it is too long, cut it square and flush with a sharp razor blade.

you can also hold the cork gasket in place then draw the outline of the cover on the gasket then remove the gasket and cut just outside the line with a pair of scissors so it doesn't look so retarded which is what i do.

remove the seal and gasket.

lay the big timing cover gasket on a piece of cardboard with the side that glues to the block facing you.

quickly put a THIN bead of silicone on the block where that gasket goes then flatten/smooth it out with your finger.

put a tiny blob at the junction/corner where the oil pan meets the block.

put silicone on the one side of the gasket that is on the cardboard and smooth it lightly with your finger.

install the gasket and line it up with the bolt holes and press it into place with light pressure.

quickly put a thin layer of gaska-cinch on the timing cover where the cork gasket will lay but do NOT extend the sealer to the end of the cover or to the channel that the rubber seal pushes into . leave around 6 mm in both areas/ends clean with no glue.

quickly put a thin bead of silicone on the curved part where the rubber seal goes.

quickly squeeze a TINY amount of sealer into the channels that the end of the rubber seal pushes into.

quickly put a tiny blob on the flat part of the cover that the cork gasket mounts to right next to the tiny slot the end of the rubber seal pushes into . this will seal the extension on the seal to the cover.

it is ok if the silcone touches the gaska-cinch as these two need to overlap after the gasket is installed and the silicone squishes around.

quickly install the rubber seal.

it may be a little long . if so just move it around so the ends fit properly . it is ok if it bulges slightly in the center . it will keep trying to pop out of the channel because of the silicone . as long as the ends are in place, the rest will push back into place when you install it.

put a tiny blob of silicone in the channel in the end of the seal where the tab on the end of the cork gasket will lay.

put a tiny blob of silicone on the cover at the other end of where the cork gasket will be . when you install the cork gasket the silicone will smush and a little will flow into the area where the glue is.

quickly put a thin layer of gaska-cinch on the side of the cork gasket that glues to the timing cover but leave it 8 mm short of the ends just like you did on the oil pan.

wait 2 minutes then lightly place the cork gasket onto the timing cover and line it up with the bolt hole and so that the end is flush with the end of the timing cover.

put around a 2 mm thick layer of silicone all over the flat area of the oil pan and on the curved lip on the front of the pan.

put a thin layer of silicone on the big gasket on the block and back of the timing cover and end of the cork gasket.

CAREFULLY install the cover . you need to have it raised around 6 mm above the oil pan so the gasket does not drag on the block . once it is lightly against the block, push the cover down lightly onto the block.

install 2 screws into each side of the cover and make them lightly finger tight.

install the oil pan screws then tighten them moderately tight/snug with a socket and extension but don't use a ratchet.

after tightening them, tighten them again because they will loosen as the gasket squishes.

install the remaining bolts in the front of the cover then torque them to spec.

tighten the oil pan bolts properly with a ratchet.
 
if you have a bunch of washers or large bolts, put them on the bolts that hold the water pump on and install and tighten those bolts also . if you don't, its not a problem.



MARKING CRANK DAMPER

Get a cloth tape measure.

starting at the TDC mark, wrap it all the way around the damper to measure the od.

place 4 perfectly even;y spaced marks on it starting at TDC.

install the damper . put oil on the damper bolt and torque it to spec.










do the exact same thing to the side of the gaskets that will glue to the cover.







.




 



Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 25, 2016, 09:09:29 am
 :omg:

Right, well that is a lot to take in...

But i'll give it a crack



I forget the gasgacinch...

Can i use something else ?

It's only to hold the gasket in place yeah ? What about Permatex Aviation # 3 Sealant ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 25, 2016, 10:22:18 am
:omg:

Right, well that is a lot to take in...

But i'll give it a crack

I forget the gasgacinch...

Can i use something else ?

It's only to hold the gasket in place yeah ? What about Permatex Aviation # 3 Sealant ?


nope . it must be gaska-cinch or contact cement . anything else will allow the gasket to move some and since you are a rookie, attempting it without using contact cement is risky, HOWEVER, you can certainly try it . the sealer i am having you put tiny blobs of in the corners will fill most gaps anyway so even you "should" have a hard time fking it up .  :lmao:

just draw a line in the cork gasket to match the timing cover . then when you install the cover and tighten the bolts down, simply make sure the gasket will not squish out.

you can NOT use aviation sealer anywhere on these gaskets.

you need the exact permatex i told you about.


after this pita is done, you are "nearly" home free . adjusting the valves is childs play and even a 10 year old could easily do it if they were literate and could follow simple instructions .  :lmao:





Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 25, 2016, 05:50:44 pm
Cover on, hopefully it doesn't leak.

I'll have to put the damper on tomorrow, cloth tape somewhere but i can't find it so ill get one tomorrow.

Can i put the push rods in and rockers on ?

I've backed the screws out.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 25, 2016, 06:09:02 pm
Cover on, hopefully it doesn't leak.

I'll have to put the damper on tomorrow, cloth tape somewhere but i can't find it so ill get one tomorrow.

Can i put the push rods in and rockers on ?

I've backed the screws out.

yes

FIRING ORDER 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8

(http://i.fixya.net/uploads/images/greg_margo_2.gif)

install the crank bolt until it stops.

install rocker on number 1 cylinder . tighten screws by hand until they stop then back them off 1 full turn.

rotate crank exactly 1/4 turn clockwise as you face the engine . look at the keyway on the crank to see when it is 1/4 turn.

install rocker on number 3 cylinder . tighten screws by hand until they stop then back them off 1 full turn.

rotate crank exactly 1/4 turn clockwise as you face the engine . look at the keyway on the crank to see when it is 1/4 turn.

install rocker on number 7 cylinder . tighten screws by hand until they stop then back them off 1 full turn.

rotate crank exactly 1/4 turn clockwise as you face the engine . look at the keyway on the crank to see when it is 1/4 turn.

install rocker on number 2 cylinder . tighten screws by hand until they stop then back them off 1 full turn.

rotate crank exactly 1/4 turn clockwise as you face the engine . look at the keyway on the crank to see when it is 1/4 turn.

install rocker on number 6 cylinder . tighten screws by hand until they stop then back them off 1 full turn.

rotate crank exactly 1/4 turn clockwise as you face the engine . look at the keyway on the crank to see when it is 1/4 turn.

install rocker on number 5 cylinder . tighten screws by hand until they stop then back them off 1 full turn.

rotate crank exactly 1/4 turn clockwise as you face the engine . look at the keyway on the crank to see when it is 1/4 turn.

install rocker on number 4 cylinder . tighten screws by hand until they stop then back them off 1 full turn.

rotate crank exactly 1/4 turn clockwise as you face the engine . look at the keyway on the crank to see when it is 1/4 turn.

install rocker on number 8 cylinder . tighten screws by hand until they stop then back them off 1 full turn.

rotate crank exactly 1/4 turn clockwise as you face the engine . look at the keyway on the crank to see when it is 1/4 turn . it should be facing straight up . this is number 1 fire/compression stroke.

install the damper.

make sure the tdc mark lies up after you tighten it

adjust number 1 valves.

rotate 1/4 turn to the next white mark in the damper and adjust number 3 and so on.
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 25, 2016, 06:19:56 pm
the process above is exactly the same process you will use when you adjust the valves.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 25, 2016, 06:45:26 pm
Right.....  :o:


Just a question.

I had some paperwork from T&D that says something about backing the screws out till they seat, one full turn down and that's the initial starting position. Something about cutting off the internal oil hole if the screws are turned to far out or down

Am i not worrying about that ?

I can't remember exactly what it said but it was along those lines

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 25, 2016, 06:52:27 pm
Right.....  :o:


Just a question.

I had some paperwork from T&D that says something about backing the screws out till they seat, one full turn down and that's the initial starting position. Something about cutting off the internal oil hole if the screws are turned to far out or down

Am i not worrying about that ?

I can't remember exactly what it said but it was along those lines

just follow the instructions i posted.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 10:53:52 am
ok, wake up . lets get er done!
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 11:52:03 am
Alright,

Damper spacing's worked out at 0, 90,180,270


Best way to get the damper on ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 12:07:03 pm
Alright,

Damper spacing's worked out at 0, 90,180,270


Best way to get the damper on ?

ok, im happy for you.  :therethere:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 12:12:18 pm
ok, im happy for you.  :therethere:

 :toetapping:

Damper ?  :lol:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 12:14:02 pm
:toetapping:

Damper ?  :lol:

well put some oil on the inside and outside and shove it in da hole and tighten the bolt..
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 12:16:11 pm
well put some oil on the inside and outside and shove it in da hole and tighten the bolt..

I realise this...

It's obviously tight as a mofo ?

Block of wood and hammer? joking btw  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on March 26, 2016, 12:24:34 pm
Rocol anti scuffing compound will help it slide on
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 12:25:57 pm
I realise this...

It's obviously tight as a mofo ?

Block of wood and hammer? joking btw  :thumb:

85 ft lbs

it should be tight
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 12:28:34 pm
85 ft lbs

it should be tight

What i mean is it's half way on, how do i get it all the way on without beating the shit out of it ?

Will the crank bolt press it on ? Or will that strip the threads out of the crank ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 12:30:17 pm
make sure the key is lined up

use the crank bolt as long as it threads in 3 full turns.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 12:34:10 pm
make sure the key is lined up

use the crank bolt as long as it threads in 3 full turns.

Ok, thats what i thought, just didnt know if it would damage the threads
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 12:37:24 pm
Ok, thats what i thought, just didnt know if it would damage the threads

well we'll find out in a few minutes .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 12:49:06 pm
well we'll find out in a few minutes .  :lmao:

I've had a shit of a morning.

If that happens, car is straight on Carsales as a roller...
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 12:51:59 pm
I've had a shit of a morning.

Why, did you let the wife fill the Landcruiser up again?  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 12:52:43 pm
.
,,,,or was it your daughter this time?  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 12:54:26 pm
PUT SOME ASSEMBLY OIL ON THE BOLT
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 12:57:54 pm
I've got 4 kids, so they have all been off the chain since 7am..

Mrs is in an absolute *&@#$%%% of a mood..


Top day !

 :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 01:03:19 pm
I've got 4 kids, so they have all been off the chain since 7am..

Mrs is in an absolute *&@#$%%% of a mood..


Top day !

 :lmao: :lmao:

Karma?  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 01:05:12 pm
Karma?  :lmao:


 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

That's what she said..


Ok, damper on and torqued.

Onto rockers.

Do i need to rotate engine to 0 before i start ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 01:08:42 pm

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

That's what she said..


Ok, damper on and torqued.

Onto rockers.

Do i need to rotate engine to 0 before i start ?

they are always right, just ask em .  :lmao:


your tdc mark on the damper may have moved slightly so just line it up again with the pointer on the engine hen adjust valves on number 1 cyl.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 01:15:14 pm
they are always right, just ask em .  :lmao:


your tdc mark on the damper may have moved slightly so just line it up again with the pointer on the engine.

True..  :lol:


Going off the pointer its around the 270 mark, whats happened there ?

Rotate it around to 0 ?

It's only a few degrees off the original TDC mark from the original build ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 01:37:09 pm
True..  :lol:


Going off the pointer its around the 270 mark, whats happened there ?

Rotate it around to 0 ?

It's only a few degrees off the original TDC mark from the original build ?

what?

you cant be at 270 and tdc at the same time.

rotate to the tdc mark in the direction that is closest to it.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 01:38:46 pm
after that look at the left front lifters, they should both as low as they can be in the bores.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 01:45:35 pm
after that look at the left front lifters, they should both as low as they can be in the bores.

Sorry, i meant the pointer is only a few degrees off where the builder had TDC marked.

I thought we set it at 0, so i assumed the damper would go back on it would be at 0


Fuk'd if i know. But yes the first 2 lifters are at there lowest from what i can tell
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 01:50:17 pm
Sorry, i meant the pointer is only a few degrees off where the builder had TDC marked.

I thought we set it at 0, so i assumed the damper would go back on it would be at 0


Fuk'd if i know. But yes the first 2 lifters are at there lowest from what i can tell

the number 1 piston is at tdc when the crank key is straight up.

you may have the wrong damper.

what side is your pointer on?

what brand is your damper?

can you post a photo?

you may need to take the bolt back out ad put the key straight up then take a photo of the timing marks.

if we dont get this right it will be very bad.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 01:54:49 pm
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1645/25433127244_5c25bfe7f5_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EKrqDS)2016-03-26_01-51-40 (https://flic.kr/p/EKrqDS) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1572/25765057680_4ba55b3c23_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FfLE1q)2016-03-26_01-52-05 (https://flic.kr/p/FfLE1q) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr



Black mark is the original mark for TDC by the builder
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 01:57:33 pm
the number 1 piston is at tdc when the crank key is straight up.

you may have the wrong damper.

what side is your pointer on?

See pic

what brand is your damper?

Romac

can you post a photo?

you may need to take the bolt back out ad put the key straight up then take a photo of the timing marks.

Key was straight up when i put it on, may have moved a little when tightening it but not much

if we dont get this right it will be very bad.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 01:59:16 pm
son of a f'n btch
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 02:02:38 pm
which color are your marks?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 02:03:52 pm
son of a f'n btch

That's what i do not want to hear.

If i have to pull this apart, it's not happening. Fukn thing can sit there and rust away..
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 02:04:48 pm
which color are your marks?

Mine are the white marks, measured the damper spaced out 4 times starting at 0

The 32 degree mark is there mark
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 02:05:34 pm
ok, i got it . back in a minute
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 02:12:14 pm
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1568/26038111375_313486cc17_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FEU8mK)2016-03-26_02-09-55 (https://flic.kr/p/FEU8mK) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr

No 1
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 02:16:51 pm
the black mark is top dead center on the 260 degree line . rotate the crank counter clockwise 5 degrees so it lines up with pointer.

1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8

adjust the valves on 1.

rotate clockwise to 170 adjust 3

rotate clockwise to 80  adjust 7

rotate to 350 adjust 2

rotate to 260 do 6

rotate 170 do 5

rotate 80 do 4

rotate 350 do 8

rotate 260 . this is tdc . recheck the valves on 1.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 02:17:50 pm
please don't show us your snausage bits.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 02:18:57 pm
remove your white marks, they are now useless.

put new ones on at the numbers i mentioned.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 02:26:51 pm
We can install the intake after this . wheee!  :pepper:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 02:27:23 pm
 :ouch: :ouch:

Who the fuk would do this for a living....  :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 02:28:52 pm
:ouch: :ouch:

Who the fuk would do this for a living....  :lmao: :lmao:

obviously not your engine builder .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 02:31:53 pm
obviously not your engine builder .  :lmao:

 :lmao:


Ok, so im on the same page.

Rods in, rockers on.

torque the rockers down at the shaft, 25 ft lbs ??

Wind internal screw down till it stops,  then out 1 turn.

?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 02:34:42 pm
install each pair of rockers when you get to the correct cylinder then set the proper clearance now as per the cam card
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 02:36:16 pm
install each pair of rockers when you get to the correct cylinder.

set the proper clearance now as per the cam card

0.22 hot, should it be tighter cold ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 02:39:31 pm
0.22 hot, should it be tighter cold ?

@%$%#!@$@#%

back in a f'n minute  :thud:

it should have given a cold spec . i will look.

what is your cam number?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 02:42:12 pm
.
do you have a blow dryer to heat them up with?  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 02:46:37 pm
@%$%#!@$@#%

back in a f'n minute  :thud:

it should have given a cold spec . i will look.

what is your cam number?

220183-10

just has running clearance (hot)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 02:54:05 pm
.

post a photo that makes no sense.


hey, that's a nice cam, who suggested that one?

set them .002" TIGHTER than they suggest.

put the feeler gauge between the rocker and valve

tighten screw until it requires a slight force to remove the gauge

hold the screw as you tighten the nut.

recheck the clearance.

the adjustment needs to be very close but not 110% perfect .001" off is ok.


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 02:58:39 pm
.

hey, that's a nice cam, who suggested that one?

set them .002" TIGHTER than they suggest.

 :lmao:

Worked it out with my years of mechanical experience...  :thumb:


The centre screws are all backed out till they lightly seated.

Now, 1 full turn down feels pretty tight. Is this right ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 03:06:04 pm
:lmao:

Worked it out with my years of mechanical experience...  :thumb:


The centre screws are all backed out till they lightly seated.

Now, 1 full turn down feels pretty tight. Is this right ?

no fn idea what you are talking about.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 03:07:05 pm
put the feeler gauge between the rocker and valve

tighten screw until it requires a slight force to remove the gauge

hold the screw as you tighten the nut.

recheck the clearance.

the adjustment needs to be very close but not 110% perfect .001" off is ok.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 03:11:26 pm
put the feeler gauge between the rocker and valve

tighten screw until it requires a slight force to remove the gauge

hold the screw as you tighten the nut.

recheck the clearance.

the adjustment needs to be very close but not 110% perfect .001" off is ok.

Ok,

If i torque the shafts down to the stand there is absolutely no way i'm getting a feeler gauge in there at all, screws are backed out and the rod has zero play in it.

As soon as there torqued down, everything is tight.

I'm over it today...  :smile01: :smile01:  :thud:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 03:22:47 pm
ok, look at how high the cross bar on the lifters is for number 1.

rotate the crank two full revolutions.

watch the lifters to see if they go any lower during this time.

when the lifters get to the highest point, look closely at them to see if you can see the oil band protruding above the lifter boss.


POST SOME PHOTOS FROM A FEW FEET AWAY.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 03:35:02 pm
ok, look at how high the cross bar on the lifters is for number 1.

rotate the crank two full revolutions.

watch the lifters to see if they go any lower during this time.

I just watched no 1, no they don't go any lower than where they are at TDC

when the lifters get to the highest point, look closely at them to see if you can see the oil band protruding above the lifter boss.

POST SOME PHOTOS FROM A FEW FEET AWAY.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1486/25946717222_38ff5660b1_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FwPH4u)2016-03-26_03-46-54 (https://flic.kr/p/FwPH4u) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1595/25766402520_5388c6fc5e_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FfTxMj)2016-03-26_03-45-52 (https://flic.kr/p/FfTxMj) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1705/25436711273_6793c7a6b6_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EKKN4t)2016-03-26_03-45-28 (https://flic.kr/p/EKKN4t) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1455/26039239895_a7e5a9fdd4_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FEZUPZ)2016-03-26_03-45-02 (https://flic.kr/p/FEZUPZ) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 03:40:03 pm
i need a photo of the assembly with the rocker and push rods.

rotate the crank and check the lifter first
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 04:34:31 pm
Im getting the feeling something maybe very wrong here...
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 05:12:03 pm
Im getting the feeling something maybe very wrong here...

its impossible for something to be very wrong.

did you rotate the crank twice.

everything looks perfectly fine to me so i see no reason for you to not hve clearance.

did you turn the adjuster screws COUNTER CLOCKWISE to loosen them?



Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 05:20:48 pm
its impossible for something to be very wrong.

did you rotate the crank twice.

everything looks perfectly fine to me so i see no reason for you to not hve clearance.

did you turn the adjuster screws COUNTER CLOCKWISE to loosen them?

Rotated it twice.

Yes, they are wound all the way out till they stop. Don't think i can turn them any further, should i be able to ?

Even if i finger tighten the shaft down, i can rotate the push rod in my fingers but there is zero clearance between the rocker tip and the spring..

If i then torque them down, the whole lot is tight.

The only way i can get a feeler gauge under is to have the shaft nuts slightly loose. Which i assume isn't right
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 05:23:28 pm
 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Great, more parts.

Are we able to compare the specs between the Schnausage and the Howards re push rods ?

Push rods are

6.950 .080 Trend 210


I forgot to ask to, with the push rods which end is which ?

One end is slightly larger than the other
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 05:29:48 pm
ok, remove a one screw from a loose rocker and see how far it looks like it will g into the rocker before it stops . make sure the screws are as loose as they can be.

the only other thing it can be is that your other cam was a small base circle cam which it should not have been but who the fk knows.

can you post a close up photo of your other cam.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 05:30:59 pm
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Great, more parts.

Are we able to compare the specs between the Schnausage and the Howards re push rods ?

Push rods are

6.950 .080 Trend 210


I forgot to ask to, with the push rods which end is which ?

One end is slightly larger than the other

i need a photo of the rods.

what a f'n pita.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on March 26, 2016, 05:34:00 pm
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Great, more parts.

Are we able to compare the specs between the Schnausage and the Howards re push rods ?

Push rods are

6.950 .080 Trend 210


I forgot to ask to, with the push rods which end is which ?

One end is slightly larger than the other
Unless the cam base circle is wrong the rods should not be too long, but as you dont have an adjustable checking rod and some light checking springs you cant check. are you sure the adjusters are all the way out. You dont just buy rods you work out the length first, they are made in 50 thou increments
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 05:36:07 pm
i need a photo of the rods.

what a f'n pita.

Tell me about it.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1482/25435716264_8cf88f6b84_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EKEGh9)2016-03-26_05-37-32 (https://flic.kr/p/EKEGh9) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1468/26014563816_eb9fd7b029_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FCPrum)2016-03-26_05-39-42 (https://flic.kr/p/FCPrum) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr

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Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 05:48:35 pm
I had a crack at google and from what i can see the Howards cam has a small base circle
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 05:53:18 pm
I had a crack at google and from what i can see the Howards cam has a small base circle

stop googling

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1658/25169982433_7b8c9b8def_k.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 05:54:16 pm
can you measure the smallest part of a lobe on your old cam

your snausage looks like a small base circle cam.

the howards is a big fat cam
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 06:05:23 pm
can you measure the smallest part of a lobe on your old cam

your snausage looks like a small base circle cam.

the howards is a big fat cam

You mean the base of the lobe ?

How do you want it measured ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 06:13:25 pm
You mean the base of the lobe ?

How do you want it measured ?

the lobe is tall in one direction and small in another . measure the small part of the snausage . you should have practice doing that.

measure how long your push rod is.

you need to buy one of these .

http://www.vpw.com.au/Category/Index/551749 (http://www.vpw.com.au/Category/Index/551749)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on March 26, 2016, 06:19:57 pm
The original cam looks like a SADI blank I would have thought an engine of this caliber they would have used steel billet. This is why the gear failed I reckon. They dont like a bronze gear. If  the base circle is different you are starting to get in deeper with respect to working out rod length.
Building high performance engines is not for the faint hearted. I think you should have left it alone. I do have pictures of working out rod lengths if you need them. But you'll need to swap out 2 valve springs and get a checking rod.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 06:23:19 pm
If i've gotta go through this push rod shite, it will stay there until i can pay  a shop to do it.

Thing owes me over $50k and it comes undone for what amounts to someone cutting  corners for the sake of it.

Just one thing after another..
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 06:26:46 pm
If i've gotta go through this push rod shite, it will stay there until i can pay  a shop to do it.

Thing owes me over $50k and it comes undone for what amounts to someone cutting  corners for the sake of it.

Just one thing after another..

the push rod shit is easy  you do not have to swap valve springs . it will take 5 minutes to do.

i need the push rod photos.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on March 26, 2016, 06:30:20 pm
the push rod shit is easy  you do not have to swap valve springs.

The checking rods will bend at the thread with the springs on that motor I reckon I would put light ones in to make sure its right and the rockers are running in the centre of the valve
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on March 26, 2016, 06:34:39 pm
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn64/shaunp289/20131117_195559_zps0055a474.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/shaunp289/media/20131117_195559_zps0055a474.jpg.html)
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn64/shaunp289/20131117_200234_zps43b6ea33.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/shaunp289/media/20131117_200234_zps43b6ea33.jpg.html)
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn64/shaunp289/20131117_200746_zps38adf14b.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/shaunp289/media/20131117_200746_zps38adf14b.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 06:41:19 pm
The checking rods will bend at the thread with the springs on that motor I reckon I would put light ones in to make sure its right and the rockers are running in the centre of the valve

The object is not to have it run in the center of the valve . The location on the valve will be whatever it will be after the proper geometry is established . If your lucky it will be in the center.

He doesn't need to turn the engine over to do it for his particular app.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5is9BsH5OU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5is9BsH5OU)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjaosX63DkM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjaosX63DkM)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on March 26, 2016, 06:57:32 pm
Yeah but he has shaft rockers  not stud you cant alter the height of the rocker with out shimming them on the head, all he can do is get the rod the correct length, its not the same thing, can use the same method but you only have one thing to change.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 07:07:07 pm
Yeah but he has shaft rockers  not stud you cant alter the height of the rocker with out shimming them on the head, all he can do is get the rod the correct length, its not the same thing.

Yeah the shaft mount certainly does make it a bit harder and i would have to try to explain how to do it which might be a bit difficult . im just trying to think of a way to simplify it for him so he doesnt give up . virtually no one other than engine builders check this.

There are a zillion engines in the us with less than optimal geometry but they still run fine . obviously they are usually giving a little power away but based on his comments, he is not trying to eek out every ounce of hp and i dont want him to give up so im trying to figure a way he can get them reasonably close himself . one way would be to buy 3 different length push rods and narrow it down from there . that wouldn't cost him too much.

He's already pulled off a miracle doing all this without having ever even changed a spark plug before so i would like to see him finish it himself.  :bolt:



Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on March 26, 2016, 07:14:06 pm
.

He's already pulled off a miracle doing all this without having ever even changed a spark plug before so i would like to see him finish it himself.  :bolt:

It is Easter I guess a time for miracles as the story goes. When it runs and lasts longer then last time I'll call consider it a miracle.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 26, 2016, 07:20:10 pm
It is Easter I guess a time for miracles as the story goes. When it runs and lasts longer then last time I'll call consider it a miracle.

Oh, I wasn't expecting it to actually run. I just figured it would be a success if he only had two or three parts left over. :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 07:43:12 pm
Oh, I wasn't expecting it to actually run. I just figured it would be a success if he only had two or three parts left over. :lmao:

I like to refer to them as "spares"

 :lmao:

What photos of the rods do you want?

I put a photo up, is it not clear enough ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on March 26, 2016, 08:30:38 pm
Just go buy a set of checking rods, or make one, you can cut a rod and tap the ends, put a cut down screw in the center so you can make it shorter or longer
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 26, 2016, 09:07:54 pm
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1652/25437914624_7d0d292938_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EKRXLU)2016-03-26_08-51-42 (https://flic.kr/p/EKRXLU) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1546/25437908674_858c0da43a_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EKRW1j)2016-03-26_08-51-13 (https://flic.kr/p/EKRW1j) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1533/25976292401_7f3afeb922_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FzrhJn)2016-03-26_08-50-42 (https://flic.kr/p/FzrhJn) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 04:38:38 am
.
XLNT

POST A PHOTO OF YOUR CAM CARDS . THEY SHOULD HAVE GIVEN YOU ONE WITH THE $18,000.000 ENGINE . IF YOU DONT HAVE THAT ONE I WILL CALL SNAUSAGE MONDAY.

the top photo goes to the rocker but it looks like they may have had them in upside down  :lmao:

the idiots must have put a reduced base circle cam in it.  :thud:

these are common base circle sizes, however, these sizes can vary depending on lobe lift.

std base circle ........... 1.340
reduced base circle .... 1.260
difference .................. .080

I will call the cam mfgs Monday, and if i can get the base circle numbers, you should be just fine if you get push rods that are shorter by the amount of difference there is in base circles between the two cams and then the potential tragedy will be averted . You can Ebay yours to get some money back.  :toetapping:

The closest ones are 6.875 which is fine . I would get the ball end type like you have if possible.

Here's standard end rods . You need .080 wall.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/pushrods-assembled/intake-overall-length-in/6-875-in/wall-thickness-in/0-080-in?N=4294894148%2B4294876053%2B4294887316&PageSize=100&SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending (http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/pushrods-assembled/intake-overall-length-in/6-875-in/wall-thickness-in/0-080-in?N=4294894148%2B4294876053%2B4294887316&PageSize=100&SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 27, 2016, 08:23:44 am
I haven't got the cam card for the Schnausage.


(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1660/25448771904_1ac1e4b5e3_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ELPBgo)2016-03-27_08-17-49 (https://flic.kr/p/ELPBgo) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1683/25987196951_88e057a651_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FApbgR)2016-03-27_08-17-23 (https://flic.kr/p/FApbgR) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 08:51:56 am
ok, no base circle info so I will spend my own hard earned money on a couple phone calls on Monday to try and get the info just so you will stop crying about your little push rods.  :cry:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 08:52:53 am
ok, no base circle info so I will spend my own hard earned money on a couple phone calls on Monday to try and get the info just so you will stop crying about your little push rods.  :cry:

Waaaa

 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 27, 2016, 08:54:04 am
ok, no base circle info so I will spend my own hard earned money on a couple phone calls on Monday to try and get the info just so you will stop crying about your little push rods.  :cry:

Word is your loaded anyway...

Living down in Malibu with Cait...

 :lmao:  :lmao:

 :bolt:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 09:21:07 am
Word is your loaded anyway...

Living down in Malibu with Cait...

 :lmao:  :lmao:

 :bolt:

Yes and I lavish her...him...it with gifts with all that money that GLENN gave me that he was planning to use to buy a lifetime membership at a prestigious lawn bowling club [if there even is such a thing] . :lmao:

You could even come visit us when you are here providing our bodies are not lovingly entwined in the erotic positions of the Kama Sutra at the time....that is unless you would like to join us cuz there's always room for one more!  :thumb:
.
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 09:28:37 am
.
...and we could all have something to eat by making a sandwich!
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 09:39:31 am
.
Do you prefers yours dry or with "Mannaise"?  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 09:57:10 am
you can get push rods here.

manley .080 wall swedged end or crow .110 wall if they have a swedged end . .110 wall is a little better but you can't use ones that have a ball welded to the end.

http://www.vpw.com.au/Category/Index/509438 (http://www.vpw.com.au/Category/Index/509438)

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 27, 2016, 11:19:53 am
Yes and I lavish her...him...it with gifts with all that money that GLENN gave me that he was planning to use to buy a lifetime membership at a prestigious lawn bowling club [if there even is such a thing] . :lmao:

You could even come visit us when you are here providing our bodies are not lovingly entwined in the erotic positions of the Kama Sutra at the time....that is unless you would like to join us cuz there's always room for one more!  :thumb:
.
.

As I've said before, massive psychological issues....  :lmao:

 :sick:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 11:38:43 am
As I've said before, massive psychological issues....  :lmao:

 :sick:

Perhaps I could lay on your couch and you can "analize" me.  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 11:40:04 am
.
How many people does it take to have a "lemon party"?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 11:41:12 am
.
Hey, it looks like your thread views just went up .  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 27, 2016, 11:42:27 am
It's too early on a Sunday morning for that...  :lmao: :lmao:


So as this stage it's more than likely the push rods are too long, yeah ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 11:57:42 am
It's too early on a Sunday morning for that...  :lmao: :lmao:


So as this stage it's more than likely the push rods are too long, yeah ?

Yes, the rods are too long to fit in the gap .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 27, 2016, 12:40:23 pm
Yes, the rods are too long to fit in the gap .  :lmao:

What a pita this has been...

Cant't wait to see what's next to fuk up  :thud:


So should i order a rod checker first ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 01:15:15 pm
What a pita this has been...

Cant't wait to see what's next to fuk up  :thud:


So should i order a rod checker first ?

i would not do anything yet . i will check on our monday with the cam mfgs . if i get the base circle info, there is no need to even mess with it . it ran before so it will run again even if the geometry isn't flawless.

i have had to turn an engine over with a rod checker before with regular springs and nothing happened to it but as shaun mentioned, your springs may damage it.


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 27, 2016, 01:28:59 pm
i would not do anything yet . i will check on our monday with the cam mfgs . if i get the base circle info, there is no need to even mess with it . it ran before so it will run again even if the geometry isn't flawless.

i have had to turn an engine over with a rod checker before with regular springs and nothing happened to it but as shaun mentioned, your springs may damage it.

Ahh ok, thanks mate.

Here i was thinking this weekend i'd get the valve train done, intake on and move onto the other bits and pieces...  :ouch:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 02:38:01 pm
Ahh ok, thanks mate.

Here i was thinking this weekend i'd get the valve train done, intake on and move onto the other bits and pieces...  :ouch:

yeah, i was hoping that too cuz my fingers gettin tired of typin, but on the bright side, your prob is easily fixed and unless the intake swelled up, it "should' still fit.

As a matter of fact, you can install the intake now . you dont need it off to do the push rods.

you can also install the water pump but leave the accessories off and the fan so the pulley bolt is still easy to get to.

the only thing you will have left is the push rods.  :thumb:
.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 27, 2016, 02:53:14 pm
yeah, i was hoping that too cuz my fingers gettin tired of typin, but on the bright side, your prob is easily fixed and unless the intake swelled up, it "should' still fit.

As a matter of fact, you can install the intake now . you dont need it off to do the push rods.

you can also install the water pump but leave the accessories off and the fan so the pulley bolt is still easy to get to.

the only thing you will have left is the push rods.  :thumb:
.

Will the intake off make it easier for "me"  :lmao: to set the valves because i can see the lifters and where they are at ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 02:57:00 pm
Will the intake off make it easier for "me"  :lmao: to set the valves because i can see the lifters and where they are at ?

the only thing that will make it easier for you is if someone else does it for you.

you do not need to see the lifters . this is because i had you mark the damper . besides you can simply watch the push rods go up and down instead if it makes you happy.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on March 27, 2016, 03:09:57 pm
There must be some where close by where you can just buy rods without doing mail order, I get them from Performance wholesale here in Brisbane they have 1000's of them, they buy them in bulk, in just about every length. make sure you put the reduced end on the rocker not the lifter.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 27, 2016, 03:47:29 pm
There must be some where close by where you can just buy rods without doing mail order, I get them from Performance wholesale here in Brisbane they have 1000's of them, they buy them in bulk, in just about every length. make sure you put the reduced end on the rocker not the lifter.

Yeah ill get them from Rocket or VPW etc.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 03:59:14 pm
Yeah ill get them from Rocket or VPW etc.

You could simply grind them to the correct length . That seemed to work just fine for your builder with your old distributor .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 27, 2016, 04:00:54 pm
Your an idea's man..

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 04:06:32 pm
Your an idea's man..

...and just think of the savings!  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 27, 2016, 04:09:02 pm
Intake,

Line the gaskets up with the ports etc and trim them to fit ?

Spread a thin anount of rtv around the ports etc and put the gaskets on?

Thin amount of rtv around ports etc on the gasket?

Thick bead of sealant on front and rear of block ?

Intake on, etc, bolts in ?


 :shrug:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 27, 2016, 04:15:52 pm
...and just think of the savings!  :thumb:

If it's good enough for "pro" engine builders it's good enough for a nupty like me...  :lol:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 04:18:31 pm
Intake,

Line the gaskets up with the ports etc and trim them to fit ?

Spread a thin anount of rtv around the ports etc and put the gaskets on?

Thin amount of rtv around ports etc on the gasket?

Thick bead of sealant on front and rear of block ?

Intake on, etc, bolts in ?


 :shrug:

ummm, if you bought the gaskets i told you to they should not need trimming.

you need gaska-cinch or contact cement to install it .  :lmao:
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 27, 2016, 04:23:32 pm
ummm, if you bought the gaskets i told you to they should not need trimming.

you need gaska-cinch or contact cement to install it .  :lmao:
.

Figures...


I left the carbs on and it was an awkward pita to get off with the extra weight. I can see this being a bigger pita to get back on
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 04:28:07 pm
Figures...


I left the carbs on and it was an awkward pita to get off with the extra weight. I can see this being a bigger pita to get back on

oh, there aint no way you can do it easily by yourself without getting a hernia.

you need four 5/16" x 18 thread pitch studs 40 to 50 mm long or you will never get it right . one goes in each corner of the head . this lines the intake up so even a moron couldn't fk up the installation .  :lmao:

just have one of the kids hold one side while you hold the other and lower it on.

don't take the carbs off.
.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 27, 2016, 05:06:25 pm
oh, there aint no way you can do it easily by yourself without getting a hernia.

you need four 5/16" x 18 thread pitch studs 40 to 50 mm long or you will never get it right . one goes in each corner of the head . this lines the intake up so even a moron couldn't fk up the installation .  :lmao:

just have one of the kids hold one side while you hold the other and lower it on.

don't take the carbs off.
.

Roger  :thumb:

Yeah, i had no plans in taking them off.

Don't think anyone could handle a

"How do you set up Weber 48 IDA's" thread  :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 05:09:04 pm
Yeah, i had no plans in taking them off. Don't think anyone could handle a "How do you set up Weber 48 IDA's" thread  :lmao: :lmao:

 .  :thud:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 05:32:00 pm
.
I NEED THE SERIAL NUMBER ON YOUR SNAUSAGE.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 27, 2016, 05:38:01 pm
.
I NEED THE SERIAL NUMBER ON YOUR SNAUSAGE.

52951


274 r -10


274-R

274 duration
230 @ .050"

..620" lift with 1.7 rocker

.020" lash int. & exh. hot

110 lobe center
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GEOFF289 on March 27, 2016, 05:49:55 pm
Well after 46 pages across two threads I for one am glad we are back to the Webers where this all started.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 05:52:30 pm
WHICH ONE IS THE NUMBER ENGRAVED ON THE CAM?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 05:53:29 pm
Well after 46 pages across two threads I for one am glad we are back to the Webers where this all started.

And he never even too them off .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 27, 2016, 06:21:05 pm
Well after 46 pages across two threads I for one am glad we are back to the Webers where this all started.

I know Geoff, and i'm sure there are a lot people viewing this thread thinking "This fuk'n guy"  :lmao: :lmao:


As painful and i'm sure annoying as it's been for everyone, i'm glad i gave it a go myself. I don't like being told i can't do something and that's one thing i always tell my kids. Never let anyone tell you that you can't do or achieve something.


Besides, i still have to get everything else together and more importantly see if it even STARTS !  :thud: :lmao: :lmao:




Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 27, 2016, 06:23:22 pm
BORING  :o:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 06:25:18 pm
Besides, i still have to get everything else together and more importantly see if it even STARTS !  :thud: :lmao: :lmao:

NO WARRANTEES OR GUARANTEES EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED

 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 06:27:14 pm
BORING  :o:

I agree, so lets get back to gay rugby players and lemon party's .  :thumb:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 06:29:10 pm
I agree, so lets get back to gay rugby players and lemon party's .  :thumb:

 .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GEOFF289 on March 27, 2016, 06:33:00 pm
I know Geoff, and i'm sure there are a lot people viewing this thread thinking "This fuk'n guy"  :lmao: :lmao:


As painful and i'm sure annoying as it's been for everyone, i'm glad i gave it a go myself. I don't like being told i can't do something and that's one thing i always tell my kids. Never let anyone tell you that you can't do or achieve something.


Besides, i still have to get everything else together and more importantly see if it even STARTS !  :thud: :lmao: :lmao:

Mate, no disrespect intended. Unfortunately my sense of humour is never far from the surface. While I have surprised myself with what I have managed to do I have so far drawn the line at getting inside an engine. I am VERY impressed with your having a go at this. I reckon the finish line is in sight.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 27, 2016, 06:33:04 pm
NO WARRANTEES OR GUARANTEES EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED

 :lmao:


 :lmao:

Kind of used to that now....
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 27, 2016, 06:37:57 pm
Fitzy we should call you fixie  .  You are doing a fantastic job and giving it a go  :thumb: maybe you and Barnett should get married  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 27, 2016, 06:42:36 pm
Mate, no disrespect intended. Unfortunately my sense of humour is never far from the surface. While I have surprised myself with what I have managed to do I have so far drawn the line at getting inside an engine. I am VERY impressed with your having a go at this. I reckon the finish line is in sight.

None taken buddy.

Kind of scary that this has me buggered but yet i used to work on multi million dollar mining plant.

I had my bosses bluffed there..

 :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 27, 2016, 06:43:32 pm
Fitzy we should call you fixie  .  You are doing a fantastic job and giving it a go  :thumb: maybe you and Barnett should get married  :lmao:

He needs to at least take me for dinner first..

  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 06:56:34 pm
Fitzy we should call you fixie  .  You are doing a fantastic job and giving it a go  :thumb: maybe you and Barnett should get married  :lmao:

Sorry but I don't think Cait would want to share me.

I love the way she "fills out" a swim suit . Looks like they didn't do a complete change over!  :lmao:

(http://www.allaboutthetea.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/bruce-jenner-swimsuit-550x347.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 27, 2016, 07:01:22 pm
Always gotta make things weird ...  :lol:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 27, 2016, 07:03:19 pm
He needs to at least take me for dinner first..

  :lmao:

Sorry but the waiting list is pretty long, but maybe I could squeeze you in for a quick "snack".
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 28, 2016, 07:45:01 am
.
INTAKE INSTALLATION

I use grade 8 bolts, grade 8 flat washers and grade 8 lock washers.

If you want it fancy looking, buy ARP bolts or chrome, black or stainless allen/socket head bolts and AN style flat washers.

Clean the bejesus out of all surfaces with paper towels and cleaner making sure to clean the front of the block and the inside of the valley . This will allow the Permatex to stick to these areas when it gets smushed out by the pressure from the intake..

Clean the bejesus out of it all with paper towels again.

Quickly put contact cement around the intake ports on one head and the side of the gasket that goes to the head.

Put a thin layer of permatex around the water port on the same head and a small blob at the junction where the head meets the block.

Install the gasket carefully . once the glue sticks, the gasket aint gonna move . Press down firmly on the intake area of the gasket, not at the water port.

Quickly put contact cement around the intake ports on the other head and the side of the gasket that goes to the head.

Put a thin layer of permatex around the water port on the same head and a small blob at the junction where the head meets the block.

Install the gasket carefully . once the glue sticks, the gasket aint gonna move . Press down firmly on the intake area of the gasket, not at the water port.

Install the 4 studs in each corner of the heads.

Put a thin layer of Permatex around the water and intake ports on the intake gaskets.

Put a 6 mm bead of Permatex on the front and rear of the block where the end seals would do . Extend it onto the intake gasket by around 3 mm.

Put around a 2 mm thick bead on the intake where the cork seals would go.

Carefully Install the intake . The 4 studs will guide it into place . Sliding it front and back for alignment by very much is not good.

Use the correct torque pattern

Tighten the bolts to 12 lbs.

Retighten to 12 lbs

Tighten to 18 lbs.

Retighten to 18 lbs.

Tighten to 24 lbs.

Tighten to 24 again.

Tighten to 24 again.

Let dry for 12 hours before use.

Run for 30 minutes.

Tighten bolts to 24 lbs.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 28, 2016, 10:59:47 am
The heads have 2 studs in the center, which guide the intake on held down by nuts under the carbs.

By the look of it they should guide the intake on to its correct alignment

Do i still need the 4 studs ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: teacherspet on March 28, 2016, 11:04:57 am
.
INTAKE INSTALLATION

I use grade 8 bolts, grade 8 flat washers and grade 8 lock washers.

If you want it fancy looking, buy ARP bolts or chrome, black or stainless allen/socket head bolts and AN style flat washers.

Clean the bejesus out of all surfaces with paper towels and cleaner making sure to clean the front of the block and the inside of the valley . This will allow the Permatex to stick to these areas when it gets smushed out by the pressure from the intake..

Clean the bejesus out of it all with paper towels again.

Should you be saying "bejesus" during Easter? SINNER!!!! :grin:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: teacherspet on March 28, 2016, 11:21:36 am
.....& on the next exciting instalment of "Do you have to degree a new cam", will Barnett be struck by lightning & have his Easter eggs confiscated for saying the word "bejesus" twice in the one sentence, will Fitzy & Barnett finally tie the knot after a deep & meaningful conversation about camshafts & gay rugby players over a candle lit romantic dinner, & will Caitlyn Jenner be the surprise bridesmaid for the wedding? Stay tuned for this & lots more!  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 28, 2016, 12:11:54 pm
Should you be saying "bejesus" during Easter? SINNER!!!! :grin:

t doesn't apply to me cuz I'm a Scientologist .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 28, 2016, 12:14:13 pm
.....& on the next exciting instalment of "Do you have to degree a new cam", will Barnett be struck by lightning & have his Easter eggs confiscated for saying the word "bejesus" twice in the one sentence, will Fitzy & Barnett finally tie the knot after a deep & meaningful conversation about camshafts & gay rugby players over a candle lit romantic dinner, & will Caitlyn Jenner be the surprise bridesmaid for the wedding? Stay tuned for this & lots more!  :lmao:

...and will Cait ever have the last operation that will finally bring him...her...it to its dream of being a "complete" Woman where it can finally begin sticking one of these in the CORRECT location?


.......................(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQOppXhqyQY1xYAnUGDO-v1xaMsMDo0b-sJWT0V1uxZooNqdrQDng)

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 28, 2016, 12:23:44 pm
Well.... this thread just hit rock bottom  :thud:

 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 28, 2016, 12:26:46 pm
The heads have 2 studs in the center, which guide the intake on held down by nuts under the carbs. By the look of it they should guide the intake on to its correct alignment

Do i still need the 4 studs ?

Only if you're lonely .   :bolt:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 28, 2016, 12:30:02 pm
Well.... this thread just hit rock bottom  :thud:

 :lmao:

Not even close yet .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 28, 2016, 12:32:06 pm
.
Hey, 8,206 disturbed people have now viewed YOUR thread.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 28, 2016, 05:20:26 pm
These are the numbers engraved on the Schnausage cam.

52951

274 r -10

Below is what i received on email from Schneider.

274-R

274 duration
230 @ .050"

..620" lift with 1.7 rocker

.020" lash int. & exh. hot

110 lobe center
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 28, 2016, 05:39:39 pm
ok, i will see what they say tomorrow
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 28, 2016, 05:57:45 pm
ok, i will see what they say tomorrow

Awesome, thanks mate.

Didn't get the intake on today, ill do that tomorrow.

Thought i'd give you the day off.  :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 28, 2016, 06:04:13 pm
Awesome, thanks mate.

Didn't get the intake on today, ill do that tomorrow.

Thought i'd give you the day off.  :lmao: :lmao:

 :lmao:

HEY, DID IT HAVE A MILD OR KIND OF NASTY IDLE BEFORE WHEN YOU FIRST GOT IT?

WHAT IS YOUR ROCKER RATIO?
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: teacherspet on March 28, 2016, 06:35:02 pm
...and will Cait ever have the last operation that will finally bring him...her...it to its dream of being a "complete" Woman where it can finally begin sticking one of these in the CORRECT location?


.......................(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQOppXhqyQY1xYAnUGDO-v1xaMsMDo0b-sJWT0V1uxZooNqdrQDng)

So, do you have to degree one of these once inserted?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 28, 2016, 06:52:42 pm
So, do you have to degree one of these once inserted?
i will have to read the instruction manual and get back to you on that.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 28, 2016, 07:55:07 pm
:lmao:

HEY, DID IT HAVE A MILD OR KIND OF NASTY IDLE BEFORE WHEN YOU FIRST GOT IT?

WHAT IS YOUR ROCKER RATIO?
.

It was pretty choppy, definitely noticed it.

Why's that ?

Will the new cam be lopey ?

1.70
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 29, 2016, 04:09:03 am
It was pretty choppy, definitely noticed it.

Why's that ?

Will the new cam be lopey ?

1.70

just curious.

if anything the new cam may be a little lopier.

.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 29, 2016, 05:08:36 am
ok, the cam mfg's don't know the base circle size but that's ok.

Did you rotate/unthread the nuts on the screws at all or did you just loosen the nut then turn the screws out? 

How far are the rocker shafts from being bolted to the head, 2 mm 4 mm etc?

From the looks of it so far I think you should buy a cheap 6.80" and 6.75" long push rod and try both of those.


1. Remove rocker set from number 1 cylinder and clean the top of the valve stem with cleaner.

2. Color the top of the valve stem with felt pen or dykem.

3. Install one push rod on the intake valve and the other one on the exhaust valve then tighten rocker shaft bolts.

4. Adjust to .021" and tighten nuts then take photo of adjusting screws.

5. Rotate engine clockwise 4 full turns.

6. Remove rocker set and measure the width of the pattern on both valve tips.

7. Take a close up photo in which we can see both valve tips at the same time.

If the pattern is definitely narrower on one tip, you want that push rod length that was on that rocker.

If the pattern is similar, you want the push rod that makes the pattern closest to the center of the valve.

This will get you plenty close enough for your app.

 













Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 29, 2016, 09:28:07 am
I'll get on to it this morning.

I rotated the locking nut all the way out then unthreaded the screws out till they stopped.

Only thing is you said .21, if i tighten the shaft bolts i can't get a feeler gauge in there at all. I wouldn't even get .010 in there.

As soon as i torque them down to the recommended torque which is 40 ft lbs it's all tight. It's tight if i just finger tighten them,

They probably have a coupe of mm

But ill do what you have said

I'll do a few things and post photos so it's clearer in what im saying


Other thing, if i'm rotating the engine all the time am i wiping the cam lube off ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 29, 2016, 09:58:08 am
Read my post again .  I said install the new push rods first, then tighten the rockers then adjust the lash.

Don't worry about the lube, Cait says she has used it before and it took her days to rub it completely off.

Your push rods have ZERO freeplay.

The bottom side of your shaft is around 2 mm above the mounting pad on the head.

If you tighten the mounting bolts, it will open the valves slightly

I knew this days ago but now I have the measurement I need.

One of the push rod lengths I suggested should work . See how easy and painless that was.
.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 29, 2016, 10:03:56 am

Ok. so am still doing everything you asked ?

what do you mean?

buy the two different length push rods and do the test i suggested.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 29, 2016, 10:06:15 am
what do you mean?

buy the two different length push rods and do the test i suggested.

I misread your post earlier.

I'll suss the rods now
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 29, 2016, 10:08:49 am
I misread your post earlier.

I'll suss the rods now

Are they close enough to get today and install them?

Get a third rod that is .225 shorter . If they don't have that then get .250" shorter.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 29, 2016, 10:17:21 am
Just for fun.

.080" [2 mm] x 1.7 = .136

if you get rods that are .136" shorter and tighten the rockers, you will have around ZERO freeplay.

You need .022 freeplay so .136 + .022 = .158 . but this will still leave your rocker adjusting screws bottomed out in the fully loose position so you need to have then screwed in a little so a rod that is .200 shorter will move the screws .042" from the bottomed position.

Get a third rod that is .225 shorter . If they don't have that then get .250" shorter.
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 29, 2016, 10:17:52 am
Are they close enough to get today and install them?

No mate, everything is either Sydney ( 4 hr+ round trip ) or another state.

Pita  :thud:

I'll call them shortly, i can get them over night to me
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 29, 2016, 10:19:39 am
Just for fun.

.080" [2 mm] x 1.7 = .136

if you get rods that are .136" shorter and tighten the rockers, you will have around ZERO freeplay.

You need .022 freeplay so .136 + .022 = .158 . but this will still leave your rocker adjusting screws bottomed out in the fully loose position so you need to have then screwed in a little so a rod that is .200 shorter will move the screws .042" from the bottomed position.


Get a third rod that is .225 or .250 shorter.

.

Sorry Barn i don't speak Klingon...  :shrug:

 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 29, 2016, 10:25:53 am
Sorry Barn i don't speak Klingon...  :shrug:

 :lmao:

How much did they pay you at that mining job?

Buy a 6.800" long, 6.750" long, and 6.700" long push rod in the cheapest brand you can.

One of these lengths will be good.
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: boofhead on March 29, 2016, 10:38:06 am
An adjustable one to test/determine the length can help as well.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 29, 2016, 10:53:19 am
An adjustable one to test/determine the length can help as well.

boofead, Shaunp said an adjustable one will bend and Fitzy is unable to change valve springs.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 29, 2016, 11:59:59 am
boofead, Shaunp said an adjustable one will bend and Fitzy is unable to change valve springs.

I could but thats another 40 pages..

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 29, 2016, 12:03:11 pm
How much did they pay you at that mining job?

Well..

 :lmao:

Buy a 6.800" long, 6.750" long, and 6.700" long push rod in the cheapest brand you can.

One of these lengths will be good.

Roger that.

I think comp have ones for a few bucks



Do i need to worry about wall thick ness etc for these test ones

Also it looks like Trend rods go up in 0.25 increments, would these be better over the 0.50 ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 29, 2016, 12:20:49 pm
Do i need to worry about wall thickness etc for these test ones

Also it looks like Trend rods go up in 0.25 increments, would these be better over the 0.50 ?

No need to worry about wall thickness for this test . Buy the cheapest pos rods you can.

My rod length suggestions are based on your 2 mm estimate of rocker pivot to mounting pad clearance and looking at you rocker adjusting screws, so that is my best guess from what I can see sitting behind a computer 6.000 miles away.

Don't start getting anal on me now .  :lmao:
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 29, 2016, 12:26:12 pm
No need to worry about wall thickness for this test . Buy the cheapest pos rods you can.

My rod length suggestions are based on your 2 mm estimate of rocker pivot to mounting pad clearance and looking at you rocker adjusting screws, so that is my best guess from what I can see sitting behind a computer 6.000 miles away.

Don't start getting anal on me now .  :lmao:
.

I'll get some photos now

I'm not sure if this is any help

The 3 nuts on the shaft are only lightly finger tightened, there is zero movement on the rocker so much so i can't fit a 0.002 gauge in there. I can spin the rods easily but if i torque the shaft down there is no play at all on the rod. The adjustment screws are also wound right out till i can't turn them any further. Would take a lot of force.


(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1548/25499821104_0d1746fdef_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ERkfq1)2016-03-29_12-35-53 (https://flic.kr/p/ERkfq1) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 29, 2016, 01:04:20 pm
Right, bit of ringing around i have the rods coming over night.

Anyway, in the meantime ill put the intake and crap on.

I take it leave the fuel pump out till the valves are sorted ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 29, 2016, 01:11:55 pm

That is far less than 2 mm of clearance between the head and the shaft.

Tighten the nuts on the shaft finger tight.

tighten the nuts on the shaft with a ratchet until they are properly tight and count how many turns it takes to tighten them.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 29, 2016, 01:14:02 pm
That is far less than 2 mm of clearance between the head and the shaft.

Yeah, i just realised that.

Can the rods before they send them ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 29, 2016, 01:16:03 pm
Yeah, i just realised that.

Can the rods before they send them ?

You still need new rods but i will give you new lengths.  :toetapping:

Tighten the nuts on the shaft finger tight.

tighten the nuts on the shaft with a ratchet until they are properly tight and count how many turns it takes to tighten them.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 29, 2016, 01:18:17 pm
That is far less than 2 mm of clearance between the head and the shaft.

Tighten the nuts on the shaft finger tight.

tighten the nuts on the shaft with a ratchet until they are properly tight and count how many turns it takes to tighten them.


Does 40 ft lbs sound right, its what i found on T&D's specs online

http://www.tdmach.com/05850.pdf (http://www.tdmach.com/05850.pdf)

I'll ring them to hold sending them
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 29, 2016, 01:22:40 pm
Does 40 ft lbs sound right, its what i found on T&D's specs online

http://www.tdmach.com/05850.pdf (http://www.tdmach.com/05850.pdf)

I'll ring them to hold sending them

you dont need 40 now just use 20.

i can give you the new rod info right away.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 29, 2016, 01:33:30 pm
you dont need 40 now just use 20.

i can give you the new rod info right away.

About 3/4 turn at 40

Bit over 1/4 turn at 20
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 29, 2016, 01:43:55 pm
About 3/4 turn at 40

Bit over 1/4 turn at 20

ok, xlnt, i just hope they didn't start to strip out at 40 cuz i only said 20.

here ya go

6.825
6.775
6.725

If they don't have those, get these:

6.850
6.800
6.750
6.700
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 29, 2016, 01:54:50 pm
ok, xlnt, i just hope they didn't start to strip out at 40 cuz i only said 20.

here ya go

6.825
6.775
6.725

They don't carry the .25 increment rods because it would effectively triple there stock holding. I'd have to order them.

If they don't have those, get these:

6.850
6.800
6.750
6.700

So i just added the 6.850 to the order


Will the 0.25 make a huge difference ?

Could only get Trend rods in those sizes, friggin $15-$20 a rod.

Are Trend quality rods ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 29, 2016, 01:59:26 pm
Will the 0.25 make a huge difference ?

Could only get Trend rods in those sizes, friggin $15-$20 a rod.

well you could keep your order . its all a f'n guess

in the us, you can return parts for up to 9 days or longer.



 
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: teacherspet on March 29, 2016, 02:11:08 pm
Anyway, back to the tampons............?????  :grin:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 29, 2016, 02:12:38 pm
well you could keep your order . its all a f'n guess

in the us, you can return parts for up to 9 days or longer.

Your guessing ?

 :lmao:

Well i'll be damned...

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 29, 2016, 02:15:13 pm
Your guessing ?

 :lmao:

Well i'll be damned...

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Well, it ain't my car .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 29, 2016, 02:34:33 pm
.
...but i'm guessing that my new guess is better .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 29, 2016, 03:11:02 pm
Well, it ain't my car .  :lmao:

Ahhh, it's like that huh


Purdy..  :drool: :drool: :drool:

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1670/26080766596_670a8d921c_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FJEKgA)2016-03-29_03-09-07 (https://flic.kr/p/FJEKgA) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 29, 2016, 03:35:06 pm
Ahhh, it's like that huh

Purdy..  :drool: :drool: :drool:


Are you attempting to suggest that you actually bought glue and followed my easy to understand 137 step instructions on how to install that?

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 29, 2016, 03:47:08 pm
ummm, by the way, your shiny chrome velocity stacks only make your crappy rusty mufflers and textured shock tower brace look even worse.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 29, 2016, 03:57:29 pm
Are you attempting to suggest that you actually bought glue and followed my easy to understand 137 step instructions on how to install that?

Damn straight  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 29, 2016, 04:00:42 pm
ummm, by the way, your shiny chrome velocity stacks only make your crappy rusty mufflers and textured shock tower brace look even worse.

Always hating on something..

Besides, race car..
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 29, 2016, 04:16:26 pm
Always hating on something..

Hey, I said your velocity stacks were nice but oh nooo...obviously that's not enough for you . You are starting to sound just like Cait . ohhhh, my boobs aren't big enough.  :lmao:


Besides, race car..

Yeah right...if it don't go fast at least try and make it look fast .   :thumb:
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 29, 2016, 04:33:05 pm
Brace is coming off to get painted anyway.

They both have a nice Patina  :lol:


What should i do about the Soft Touch rev control ?

Just leave it ? I'll pick up the 6AL in a few weeks.

I don't know how the fuk they have it wired in but the can't won't start unless it's connected..  :shrug:

And under the dash, engine bay is just a horrific cut and shut job on the wiring. Some of the connections look like someone has cut them with there teeth. Instead of using the right connections it's all held together with leco tape

 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 29, 2016, 04:38:38 pm
Brace is coming off to get painted anyway.


What should i do about the Soft Touch rev control ?

Just leave it ? I'll pick up the 6AL in a few weeks.

I don't know how the fuk they have it wired in but the can't won't start unless it's connected..  :shrug:

And under the dash, engine bay is just a horrific cut and shut job on the wiring. Some of the connections look like someone has cut them with there teeth. Instead of using the right connections it's all held together with leco tape

 :lmao:

...and this is my problem why? .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 29, 2016, 04:40:09 pm
...and this is my problem why? .  :lmao:

What?

You thought this was it ?

Next job is a complete re wire. Prepare yourself young Jedi


Actually, might sign Glenn and Shaun up for that one..

 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 29, 2016, 04:50:53 pm
What?

You thought this was it ?

Next job is a complete re wire. Prepare yourself young Jedi


Actually, might sign Glenn and Shaun up for that one..

 :lmao:

Oh....so they get the easy crap .  :kickass:
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 29, 2016, 06:31:25 pm
Fingers crossed rods are here tomorrow.

Hopefully get that pita sorted, order set of rods and get the valves etc done and dusted.

Then fit everything else back on and finish off the interior.

So baring no other complications we could be looking by end of next week firing it up and watching the ass fall out of it.  :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 29, 2016, 06:45:12 pm
Fingers crossed rods are here tomorrow.

Hopefully get that pita sorted, order set of rods and get the valves etc done and dusted.

Then fit everything else back on and finish off the interior.

So baring no other complications we could be looking by end of next week firing it up and watching the ass fall out of it.  :lmao: :lmao:

it takes you 10 days to install a water pump and a distributor
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 29, 2016, 06:57:59 pm
it takes you 10 days to install a water pump and a distributor

I do have other things to do during the day mate..

It's not all fun and games here  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 29, 2016, 07:05:09 pm
I do have other things to do during the day mate..

You mean like call the dealer to see if they got all the gasoline pumped out of your diesel powered landcruiser.

 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 30, 2016, 09:39:08 am
You mean like call the dealer to see if they got all the gasoline pumped out of your diesel powered landcruiser.

 :lmao:

That's all sorted now, i think it run's better..  :thumb:  :lol:


Can i fit the water pump, alternator, fuel pump, lines etc etc ??
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 30, 2016, 09:57:15 am
And after all the rod debacle i was just told that comp do a steel push rod checker designed to be used without pulling the springs...  :thud:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 30, 2016, 10:32:11 am
36 pages on this  :thud:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 30, 2016, 10:41:52 am
And after all the rod debacle i was just told that comp do a steel push rod checker designed to be used without pulling the springs...  :thud:

Xln't, blame shaun .  :lmao:

That's ok, you they don't come with instructions so it wouldn't have helped you anyway.  :lmao:

You will likely be just as close using my scientifically dummy approved method anyway, so stop your whining . You sound just like Cait when it runs out of Tampons .  :lmao:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 30, 2016, 10:43:59 am
36 pages on this  :thud:

35 of these pages don't even have anything to do with the original question .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 30, 2016, 10:45:03 am
.
HEY, MASTER MECHANIC, DID YOU INSTALL THE DISTRIBUTOR TO SEE IF IT CLEARS THE INTAKE?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 30, 2016, 10:48:20 am
36 pages on this  :thud:

Got something else better to read ?

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 30, 2016, 10:52:19 am
.
HEY, MASTER MECHANIC, DID YOU INSTALL THE DISTRIBUTOR TO SEE IF IT CLEARS THE INTAKE?

Funny you say that, was thinking of opening a mechanics business...  :lol:

Specialising in Camshaft installation..   :thumb:

All over it like white on rice..

Clears by about 5mm.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 30, 2016, 11:14:05 am
Got something else better to read ?

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Yeah, probably Lawn Bowlers Digest or The Geriatrics Weekly News .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 30, 2016, 11:19:26 am
Clears by about 5mm.

.................................. Damn I'm friggen good!

(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj206/DeaconSteve89/JesusWalksOnWater.gif)

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 30, 2016, 11:40:24 am
Just ask ya...  :lol:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 30, 2016, 11:43:55 am
Yeah, probably Lawn Bowlers Digest or The Geriatrics Weekly News .  :lmao:

That old ?

I bet you drink middies at bowls to Glenn  :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 30, 2016, 12:21:45 pm
.
I bet you drink middies at bowls to Glenn  :lmao: :lmao:
lo siento no entender.


That old ?
I guess that depends on whether you consider someone that looks like this old or not.

He looks like a proctologist waiting for his next patient.

...or he's getting ready to inspect his wife's hemorrhoids.

...and it looks like she can hardly wait .  :lmao:

(http://previews.123rf.com/images/inspirestock/inspirestock1402/inspirestock140204850/26200057-Senior-couple-lawn-bowling-in-the-bowling-green-Stock-Photo-bowling.jpg)

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: teacherspet on March 30, 2016, 02:16:56 pm
Wonder if she needs a second opinion?  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 30, 2016, 02:20:11 pm
Wonder if she needs a second opinion?  :thumb:

 Ok...she's smelly too.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 30, 2016, 02:39:05 pm
Absolutely amazing scenes here, 9095 views  :smilies:

The atmosphere is just electric, is 10,000 views possible ?

Get involved  :flag:

 :lmao:


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 30, 2016, 02:52:58 pm
Absolutely amazing scenes here, 9095 views  :smilies:

The atmosphere is just electric, is 10,000 views possible ?

Get involved  :flag:

 :lmao:

Well I think just a few more photos of gay rugby players giving hemorrhoid exams to Cait after a lemon party at the lawn bowling club while Jesus watches over them and gives them his blessing will do it just as long as you don't finish it too soon.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 30, 2016, 03:12:05 pm
Easily stretch this out for another few weeks.. :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 30, 2016, 03:45:18 pm
Easily stretch this out for another few weeks.. :thumb:

9,114 now and steadily climbing.  Might only need a few more days.  :thumb:

Maybe this sweet photo of Caits hot sexy buns will help reach the goal more quickly.  :bolt:

......................(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/hchIJXq.1B7kF4EZDxivDA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAw/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/original/KKpokSCB1C_cLx8AmY0hXkorujk)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 30, 2016, 06:01:52 pm
That's the stuff of nightmares right there...

Would never have picked you to be a fan of E News..  :lmao: :lmao:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 30, 2016, 07:00:00 pm
.
Hey, we're up to 9,156 now so we just picked up 42 more satisfiied viewers since I posted that photo of Caits glorious ass.  :thumb:

I know it's gonna be nearly impossible to top that but I'll try to think of somethin.  :lmao:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 30, 2016, 07:03:51 pm
That's the stuff of nightmares right there...

Nightmares for some...wet dreams for others.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: teacherspet on March 30, 2016, 07:32:41 pm
That's the stuff of nightmares right there...

Would never have picked you to be a fan of E News..  :lmao: :lmao:

Just think, there is a pair of testicles in between those sexy hot buns.  :omg:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: mert on March 30, 2016, 07:45:13 pm
Not sure which concept is more bizarre;

a) you have these pictures on your computer for "ready reference"
or
b) you actually take the time to go search them out

and then take the time to post them...   

To each their own, but some very odd fetish/fantasy at play... 
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shelby_mustro on March 30, 2016, 08:12:33 pm
.lo siento no entender.

I guess that depends on whether you consider someone that looks like this old or not.

He looks like a proctologist waiting for his next patient.

...or he's getting ready to inspect his wife's hemorrhoids.

...and it looks like she can hardly wait .  :lmao:

(http://previews.123rf.com/images/inspirestock/inspirestock1402/inspirestock140204850/26200057-Senior-couple-lawn-bowling-in-the-bowling-green-Stock-Photo-bowling.jpg)


Is that a photo of glenn70 on the right 😂😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shelby_mustro on March 30, 2016, 08:16:02 pm
.
Hey, we're up to 9,156 now so we just picked up 42 more satisfiied viewers since I posted that photo of Caits glorious ass.  :thumb:

I know it's gonna be nearly impossible to top that but I'll try to think of somethin.  :lmao:

You know this is a form for everyone to ask questions about their cars or show them off in a photo form I didn't think this was a site to show of your misus hahah  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 30, 2016, 08:21:38 pm
You know this is a form for everyone to ask questions about their cars or show them off in a photo form I didn't think this was a site to show of your misus hahah  :thumb:


I just wanted to know if it was necessary to degree a cam..  :shrug:  :lol:

Next minute some yank bloke is rebuilding my car...   :thumb:

 :lmao:


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on March 30, 2016, 09:14:28 pm
You clowns are so funny , NOT
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 31, 2016, 02:01:39 am

Is that a photo of glenn70 on the right 😂😂😂😂😂

No, but he may be the one on the left.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 31, 2016, 02:03:14 am
You know this is a form for everyone to ask questions about their cars or show them off in a photo form I didn't think this was a site to show of your misus hahah  :thumb:

FYI - That,s not my "Missus"...it's my "Mister".  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 31, 2016, 02:07:51 am
Just think, there is a pair of testicles in between those sexy hot buns.  :omg:

There is always someone that has to make it weird....oh, wait, Cait is weird.  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 31, 2016, 02:09:13 am
You clowns are so funny , NOT

Yes...we ARE!  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 31, 2016, 10:51:25 am
.
The distributor rotor rotates counter clockwise . Pick the post that you want to be number 1 then install the wires in the firing order as you go counter clockwise .  :thumb:

I have found that using the same post for number 1 that Ford did makes the wires look the least messy on the cap.

Line the rotor up with where the number 2 cylinder post is shown then drop it in . The rotor will spiral clockwise to the number 1 post.

................. Here's the same image I posted earlier .  :toetapping:

...........(http://i.fixya.net/uploads/images/greg_margo_2.gif)

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 31, 2016, 10:58:16 am
.
HEY, DID YOU GET YOUR DISTRIBUTOR DRILLED AND PINNED?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GEOFF289 on March 31, 2016, 11:04:44 am
.
The distributor rotor rotates counter clockwise . Pick the post that you want to be number 1 then install the wires in the firing order as you go counter clockwise .  :thumb:

I have found that using the same post for number 1 that Ford did makes the wires look the least messy on the cap.

Line the rotor up with where the number 2 cylinder post is shown then drop it in . The rotor will spiral clockwise to the number 1 post.

................. Here's the same image I posted earlier .  :toetapping:

...........(http://i.fixya.net/uploads/images/greg_margo_2.gif)

....after ensuring piston 1 is at TDC on the comp stroke first?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 31, 2016, 11:14:15 am
....after ensuring piston 1 is at TDC on the comp stroke first?

Well I actually had him leave it there the entire time to minimize his trauma, and in fact, it is still exactly there, however, it certainly doesn't hurt to remind him but that kinda takes the fun away if he were to do it wrong and think his engine was blown up when it spits fire out the carb and won't start .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 31, 2016, 11:33:36 am
 :toetapping:  :flaming:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 31, 2016, 11:34:57 am
.
HEY, DID YOU GET YOUR DISTRIBUTOR DRILLED AND PINNED?

Why yes i did fine sir.


He did ask if i wanted it double pinned but i said probably not





Until i ask the guru's Glenn or Shaun......  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 31, 2016, 11:41:33 am
:toetapping:  :flaming:

But then you could honestly tell people that you have a fire breathing engine

....that doesn't run .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 31, 2016, 11:45:17 am
.
Why yes i did fine sir.

Exquisite, and just how much did he rape you for that 15 minute job?

Did he install a hardened pin?


He did ask if i wanted it double pinned but i said probably not

Good choice .   :thumb:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 31, 2016, 11:48:16 am
.
If you reuse your old rad to fire it up with you could feasibly have it together in maybe 5 hours.  :thumb:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 31, 2016, 11:52:19 am
.
Holy crap, exactly 9,400 satisfied customers now . Seems like they are starting to gather so they can see the big finish...or more photos of Cait's spankin heiny! .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 31, 2016, 12:17:21 pm
We have test push rods..

6.700
6.750
6.800
6.850

Game time..
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 31, 2016, 12:28:23 pm
We have test push rods..

6.700
6.750
6.800
6.850

Game time..

OK,

Color the valve stem tips then starting from front to rear on left side as you face the engine, install.

6.700 then 6.750 and set to .021"

Rotate the engine clockwise to the 170 degree mark and install the 6.800 then the 6.850 on number 3 cylinder and set to .021".

rotate 4 full turns back to the black felt pen line at the 260 mark.

remove both sets of rockers and measure width of pattern.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GEOFF289 on March 31, 2016, 12:35:06 pm
Well I actually had him leave it there the entire time to minimize his trauma, and in fact, it is still exactly there, however, it certainly doesn't hurt to remind him but that kinda takes the fun away if he were to do it wrong and think his engine was blown up when it spits fire out the carb and won't start .  :lmao:

Spits fire and won't start - been there, done that. I had thought you had him rotating it all the time while trying to figure out the pushrod and rocker situation.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 31, 2016, 12:46:18 pm
Spits fire and won't start - been there, done that. I had thought you had him rotating it all the time while trying to figure out the pushrod and rocker situation.

LOL, yup, me to way more often than I care to remember.

Never had him rotate the crank yet . He will now rotate it 4 times which will bring it right back to number 1 TDC . it will do the same if he only rotates it 2 times, however, only going around 2 times might not put a clear enough mark on the tips of the valves for the push rod length test and we definitely don't want to do this twice because it is a major pita due to the shaft mount rocker arms.  :thumb:
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 31, 2016, 04:16:48 pm
.
A dry erase marking pen will make it look like this but you might only find them at an arts and crafts store.

Get the pen if you can or get both if they are on the way . office supply stores also carry the pen.


(https://www.airflowresearch.com/articles/Misc/pushrodlength/pics/10.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: boofhead on March 31, 2016, 06:38:06 pm
Not to discourage you.

The mark is to wide and to far from center. You will need a longer pushrod.


EDIT: Opps Barn posted pic not the OP's engine. Having said that it is not representative of the correct marking.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on March 31, 2016, 06:45:40 pm
Not to discourage you.

The mark is to wide and to far from center. You will need a longer pushrod.


EDIT: Opps Barn posted pic not the OP's engine. Having said that it is not representative of the correct marking.

yes, he has been pming me and all he has is felt pen and white out and i just can't tell enough by the photos because it does not leave a clean impression like the dry marker so he is going to find that or some dykem or both . from what i could tell, his marks are almost half as wide as that so it looks like one of the test rods I had him get will put it plenty close enough for his app.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on March 31, 2016, 07:27:32 pm
yes, he has been pming me and all he has is felt pen and white out and i just can't tell enough by the photos because it does not leave a clean impression like the dry marker so he is going to find that or some dykem or both . from what i could tell, his marks are almost half as wide as that so it looks like one of the test rods I had him get will put it plenty close enough for his app.

Well that was a shitty arvo  :lmao: :lmao:

Couldn't get any Dykem but they did have this black liquid dye marking stuff (technical, i know). I'll suss it out in the morning.

Hopefully tomorrow, i actually get more done  :lol:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 01, 2016, 03:05:43 am
.
GET THE DRY PEN FOR THE PUSH ROD TEST IF AT ALL POSSIBLE IN CASE THE DYKEM DOESN'T WORK.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on April 01, 2016, 08:52:20 am
White board marker is what you call them here that's what I use can buy them anywhere I just steel them from my teacher wife
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on April 01, 2016, 08:58:41 am
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn64/shaunp289/20131117_195559_zps0055a474.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/shaunp289/media/20131117_195559_zps0055a474.jpg.html)
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn64/shaunp289/20131117_200234_zps43b6ea33.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/shaunp289/media/20131117_200234_zps43b6ea33.jpg.html)
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn64/shaunp289/20131117_200746_zps38adf14b.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/shaunp289/media/20131117_200746_zps38adf14b.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 01, 2016, 10:05:25 am
White board marker is what you call them here that's what I use can buy them anywhere I just steel them from my teacher wife

Ahhh, ok, I was going to ask you and boofhead what you guys use . The dry pen works killer and I can drive just 3 miles and get any of that stuff but apparently Fitzy is anti social so he lives in the outback where there isn't even a Mcdonalds or Roo Burger Express nearby.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 01, 2016, 11:49:45 am
Ahhh, ok, I was going to ask you and boofhead what you guys use . The dry pen works killer and I can drive just 3 miles and get any of that stuff but apparently Fitzy is anti social so he lives in the outback where there isn't even a Mcdonalds or Roo Burger Express nearby.

Hey, i have a maccas 2ks away...  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 01, 2016, 12:29:24 pm
Hey, i have a maccas 2ks away...  :lmao:

Sorry but you are in no position to attempt to be humorous at the moment .   :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 01, 2016, 01:40:45 pm
.
NEWS UPDATE

I have just been informed that Fitzy has now tried a 3rd type pen like a board marker and it still didn't work so he is now looking for a new house to buy that is closer to the city so he can get the parts he needs in less than 5 days since it even took his last overnight delivery 2 days to get there .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 01, 2016, 01:47:19 pm

Wow, 9,702 voyers .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 01, 2016, 02:43:39 pm
.
NEWS UPDATE

I have just been informed that Fitzy has now tried a 3rd type pen like a board marker and it still didn't work so he is now looking for a new house to buy that is closer to the city so he can get the parts he needs in less than 5 days since it even took his last overnight delivery 2 days to get there .  :lmao:

FML  :cry:

 :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 01, 2016, 02:44:43 pm
Wow, 9,702 voyers .

And to think they actually thought they would learn something....  :shrug:  :lol:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 01, 2016, 02:52:16 pm
Alright,

After developing a sensational wife beater tan and numerous threats of physical violence against anyone that came near me, i think we are on a winner..  :lmao:


Cyl 3

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1506/26137285006_f4a5912fc3_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FPEqdW)20160401_143856 (https://flic.kr/p/FPEqdW) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr

Cyl 1

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1614/25890354160_d71177ea5e_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FrQQhy)20160401_143843 (https://flic.kr/p/FrQQhy) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr





Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 01, 2016, 03:05:18 pm
Alright,

After developing a sensational wife beater tan and numerous threats of physical violence against anyone that came near me, i think we are on a winner..  :lmao:

ok, that is still not a dry marker but it is much better than it was.

1. tell us which pattern looks the narrowest.

2. tell us which pattern looks nearest the center.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 01, 2016, 03:31:02 pm
ok, that is still not a dry marker but it is much better than it was.

Yeah, its a blue one out of the pack.  :shrug:


1. tell us which pattern looks the narrowest.

To me probably the intake on 3

2. tell us which pattern looks nearest the center.

As above


But, intake on 1 looks very similar which i don't understand as there is what .100 difference in length.

Shouldn't this give a different mark ?


But if i had to make a choice i'd say the .800 rod in 3

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 01, 2016, 03:34:20 pm
But, intake on 1 looks very similar which i don't understand as there is what .100 difference in length.

Shouldn't this give a different mark ?

ok, which rod is in what hole . i have no idea what is what?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 01, 2016, 03:35:38 pm
Cyl 1

Int 6.700

Exh  6.750

Cyl 3

Int 6.800

Exh 6.850

Current rods are 6.950


To me it looks like the 6.800 rod has the smallest mark and closest to the center.  :shrug:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 01, 2016, 03:46:01 pm
Cyl 1

Int 6.700

Exh  6.750

Cyl 3

Int 6.800

Exh 6.850

Current rods are 6.950


To me it looks like the 6.800 rod has the smallest mark and closest to the center.  :shrug:


yes, number 3 intake is the narrowest.

clean off intake valves.

put the 6.750 in number 1 intake

put the 6.850 in number 3 intake.

do it again with those and we will decide.

the additional duration on the exhaust lobe is messing up the comparrison so my apologies for that but the good thing as i mentioned is that one of the rods you have will work and so far number 3 intake is the winner.

the photos are xlnt and can be enlarged.

number 1 intake is slightly closer to the center than number 3 intake but that is irrelevant . I was just curious to see if you could tell.

.
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 01, 2016, 04:13:51 pm
No 1 - 6.750

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1478/26097831041_22608f9f8b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FLbcWa)20160401_160806 (https://flic.kr/p/FLbcWa) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on
Flickr

No 3 - 6.850

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1550/26164192465_8ab468e83f_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FS3jSD)20160401_160828 (https://flic.kr/p/FS3jSD) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 01, 2016, 04:25:07 pm
ok, this is odd and makes no f'n sense.

can you do it with the 6.800 in the number 1 intake one LAST time...I promise...maybe.

if the 6.800 makes the same width pattern as it did the first time, that's what I would use.


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 01, 2016, 04:49:44 pm
Now i have no idea. Why does it now look like the others ?

I guess its not any easier because its not leaving a clean mark.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1457/25561937523_1b163b1551_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EWPBsK)20160401_164704 (https://flic.kr/p/EWPBsK) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 01, 2016, 04:51:03 pm
.
PS - Hire a f'n gardner for $10.00 a day so you can finish your engine . None of us are gettin any younger here.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 01, 2016, 04:53:46 pm
Now i have no idea. Why does it now look like the others ?

i dont f'n know.



I guess its not any easier because its not leaving a clean mark.

That is why you use the dry pen i mentioned, but ohhh nooo, we don't have dry pens in oz cuz we're too good to use those.  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 01, 2016, 04:57:15 pm
i dont f'n know.



That is why you use the dry pen i mentioned, but ohhh nooo, we don't have dry pens in oz cuz we're too good to use those.  :lmao:

White Board Marker = Dry Erase Marker  :thud:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 01, 2016, 04:59:13 pm
ok, I looked at it and there is just no way to trust the marks so I don't know what to tell you other than get a dry pen or us the rod that moves the mark to the exhaust side the farthest.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 01, 2016, 05:00:10 pm
White Board Marker = Dry Erase Marker  :thud:


does it come off the valve if you touch it with your finger without wiping it?

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 01, 2016, 05:06:44 pm

does it come off the valve if you touch it with your finger without wiping it?

Yep, straight off.

If i use say my finger nail i'll get a clean line.




Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 01, 2016, 05:31:19 pm
Yep, straight off.

If i use say my finger nail i'll get a clean line.

if you touch it and it comes right off, it "should" work . if you have to rub it at all it will not work well.

if there is oil on the rollers, clean it off.

try turning the friggen engine over 5 and 2/3rds times after installing number 3 rocker . this will put a better mark and will end up on tdc number 1.

every EVEN number of revolutions will put it exactly back to where it was.

the engine turns over two times for every complete cycle of one piston.


.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on April 01, 2016, 07:17:31 pm
Are you setting the lash the same each time
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 01, 2016, 07:30:19 pm
Are you setting the lash the same each time

As far as i'm aware.

I was sure Barn said if it's 21 or 20 etc it wont make a difference.  :shrug:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 01, 2016, 07:35:41 pm
As far as i'm aware.

I was sure Barn said if it's 21 or 20 etc it wont make a difference.  :shrug:

and thats in millimeters correct?  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 01, 2016, 07:39:27 pm
and thats in millimeters correct?  :lmao:

of course.......  :bolt:

60 views to go....  :lol:

Over 16,000 views on 2 threads, car still no closer to running

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on April 01, 2016, 07:42:28 pm
But, intake on 1 looks very similar which i don't understand as there is what .100 difference in length.

Shouldn't this give a different mark ?


But if i had to make a choice i'd say the .800 rod in 3

It's possible the the lobes are ground differently  try an other ex valve and see if  it behaves the same. If all the exhausts are the same and all inlets are the same id use 2 different rods
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: teacherspet on April 01, 2016, 09:29:23 pm
Ho hum  :grin:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 02, 2016, 05:17:19 am
.
uh oh guys, it looks like teacherspet is loosing interest . We better try some new photos to stimulate him [or her] before they go to sleep on us. 

(https://media.giphy.com/media/5y9gwKyvq5nzi/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 02, 2016, 06:58:27 am
.
Hey Fitzy, you now have 10,263 fans rootin for ya so lets "Get er done" and show em what ya got.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 02, 2016, 10:46:47 am
It appears that Fitzy has decided to lubricate his new driveway since he is also lubricating his engine .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 02, 2016, 11:07:24 am
It appears that Fitzy has decided to lubricate his new driveway since he is also lubricating his engine .  :lmao:

Cheers mate....  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 03, 2016, 07:54:34 am
.
ok, its a new day with new adventures.

(http://images.clipartpanda.com/smiley-face-clip-art-niXoRMbiB.png)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 04, 2016, 04:55:01 pm
And what adventures they were.

Well the push rod debacle has been sorted...... I hope  :shrug:


Crack on with the rest all week and we could be ready to fire it up and watch it explode before my eyes  by the weekend  :lmao:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 04, 2016, 04:57:37 pm
And what adventures they were.

Well the push rod debacle has been sorted...... I hope  :shrug:


Crack on with the rest all week and we could be ready to fire it up and watch it explode before my eyes  by the weekend  :lmao:

so was it the 6.700's?  :lmao:
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 04, 2016, 05:04:28 pm
so was it the 6.700's?  :lmao:
.


6.650 you dont know what your on about  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 04, 2016, 05:08:40 pm

6.650 you dont know what your on about  :lmao:

Did you check the push rods twice to make sure the results were consistent?  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 04, 2016, 05:25:05 pm
Did you check the push rods twice to make sure the results were consistent?  :lmao:

Triple checked..
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 04, 2016, 05:38:45 pm
Triple checked..

And were the results consistently "inconsistent" .  :thumb:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 04, 2016, 05:39:19 pm
And were the results consistently "inconsistent" .  :thumb:

 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 04, 2016, 05:54:04 pm
:lmao:

Dodgy markers..

Well at least i'm now highly experienced at pulling rockers on and off..  :lol:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 05, 2016, 01:18:45 pm
Alright, engine pretty much done.

Few things to tidy up with wiring etc that's a dogs breakfast.


Push rods come tomorrow so it's moving along now.


What do you reckon Barn, about another 20 pages to install the rockers and get it started ??  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 05, 2016, 01:28:37 pm
Alright, engine pretty much done.

That's hilarious, got any more good jokes?  :lmao:


Few things to tidy up with wiring etc..

How bout that oil slick on your new driveway?  :thumb:


that's a dogs breakfast.

 WTF?? :shrug:


Push rods come tomorrow...

So that means Thursday.


...so it's moving along now.

 :lmao:



What do you reckon Barn, about another 20 pages to install the rockers and get it started ??  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

If it goes that much longer i'll have to take a few more photos of Cait for everyone's viewing pleasure . Maybe i'll get her in that nice little hot pink victorias secret outfit with the special cut out sections that he has.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 05, 2016, 02:30:50 pm
Just a regular comedian this bloke...

I'm betting you have no friends dont you ???

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 05, 2016, 02:35:16 pm
Just a regular comedian this bloke...

I'm betting you have no friends dont you ???

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Yes, I do..his name is GLENN.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 05, 2016, 02:41:02 pm
Yes, I do..his name is GLENN.  :thumb:

 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 05, 2016, 03:41:45 pm
GLENN. Who ?  GLENN 20  ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 05, 2016, 04:59:28 pm
Here's another "Pro" engine mod.

Wiring does not require insulation, electrical tape is the go.
Because, Race Car  :burnout:

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1608/26247157015_fc83e3bff3_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FZnxkV)20160405_165206 (https://flic.kr/p/FZnxkV) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 05, 2016, 05:05:06 pm
Here's another "Pro" engine mod.

Wiring does not require insulation, electrical tape is the go.
Because, Race Car  :burnout:

Spectacular!  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 05, 2016, 05:08:01 pm
Well at least i'm now highly experienced at pulling rockers on and off..  :lol:

Cait wants to know what else you might be good at pulling on and off .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 05, 2016, 06:44:48 pm
Cait wants to know what else you might be good at pulling on and off .  :lmao:


Off your med's again ??
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 06, 2016, 01:59:09 pm

Off your med's again ??

Yes.

Are you still impatiently waiting by the door for that "overnight" delivery .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 06, 2016, 02:00:03 pm
.
I hope you brought a sleeping bag and a pillow .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 06, 2016, 02:00:36 pm
.
oh...and some K rations .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 06, 2016, 02:01:57 pm
.
...and maybe some dehydrated water . Just add water to make it .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: teacherspet on April 06, 2016, 02:05:26 pm
Good night Barney, good night Fitzy.....

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 06, 2016, 02:15:57 pm
Afternoon my avid viewers...

Push rods arrived, time to get this bad girl finished..  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 06, 2016, 02:17:55 pm
.
He forgot to mention that he just installed a couple and his engine locked up .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 06, 2016, 02:20:09 pm
.
He forgot to mention that he just installed a couple and his engine locked up .  :lmao:

That is an outrageous and inflammatory accusation..
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 06, 2016, 02:22:29 pm
That is an outrageous and inflammatory accusation..

(https://images.nonexiste.net/popular/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/My-mechanic-s-rates-.jpeg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 06, 2016, 02:27:04 pm
Dont ever rob a bank with this bloke, he'll give you up straight away...

 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 06, 2016, 02:36:17 pm
Dont ever rob a bank with this bloke, he'll give you up straight away...

 :lmao:

I just thought your compassionate fellow countrymen would be sympathetic to your plight if they knew just how much trouble you were having...even installing a simple spark plug .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 06, 2016, 04:17:38 pm
I just thought your compassionate fellow countrymen would be sympathetic to your plight if they knew just how much trouble you were having...even installing a simple spark plug .  :lmao:

Hurtfull  :toetapping:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 06, 2016, 04:32:34 pm
Hurtfull  :toetapping:

I'm practicing my people skills...how am I doin?  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 06, 2016, 04:33:57 pm
.
Sorry...forgot to ask...does it turn over again yet? :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 06, 2016, 04:50:06 pm
.
Sorry...forgot to ask...does it turn over again yet? :lmao:

Yes because i have petrol on my driveway...  :toetapping:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 06, 2016, 05:00:20 pm
What was the original lash ? 20 ?

Cam card says 22 but thats hot
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 06, 2016, 05:05:25 pm
What was the original lash ? 20 ?

Cam card says 22 but thats hot

that wont help ya if it wont turn over.

you didnt put the spark plugs back in it did ya?
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 06, 2016, 05:07:45 pm
Yes because i have petrol on my driveway...  :toetapping:

is that what you are using to clean up the oil slick?  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 06, 2016, 05:14:57 pm
is that what you are using to clean up the oil slick?  :lmao:

And a box of matches..
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 06, 2016, 05:16:13 pm
Nah, a couple of times it hit a point and seems to stop but if i back it off the other way a little it spins freely no worries.

Maybe i need to get back into the gym  :smile01:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 06, 2016, 05:21:24 pm
Nah, a couple of times it hit a point and seems to stop but if i back it off the other way a little it spins freely no worries.

Maybe i need to get back into the gym  :smile01:

wha the fk are you using to turn it, a 6" long wrench?

doesn't sound like you ever were at a gym.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 06, 2016, 05:21:51 pm
.

oops, sorry, i forgot this .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 06, 2016, 05:22:40 pm
And a box of matches..

xln't....i'll get the wieners!
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 06, 2016, 05:23:20 pm
.
Should we start with Caits?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 06, 2016, 05:36:36 pm
wha the fk are you using to turn it, a 6" long wrench?

doesn't sound like you ever were at a gym.

Why yes i am

Figured ive made everything else hard for myself so why stop now.. :lmao:


I coach Olympic Weightlifting and Crossfit part time ya jack ass...
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 06, 2016, 05:37:20 pm
xln't....i'll get the wieners!

A Schnausage perhaps ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 06, 2016, 05:40:52 pm
Why yes i am

Figured ive made everything else hard for myself so why stop now.. :lmao:


I coach Olympic Weightlifting and Crossfit part time ya jack ass...

To who quadrapalegics?

Do they have a forum I can go to to tell them you can't even turn an engine over with no rockers and no spark plugs in it .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 06, 2016, 05:43:21 pm
I coach Olympic Weightlifting...

Must be for the "Special" Olympics .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 06, 2016, 05:45:51 pm
...and Crossfit part time ya jack ass...

A cross between what Richard Simmons and Caitlin Jenner? :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 06, 2016, 05:48:36 pm
Must be for the "Special" Olympics .  :lmao:

You'd fit right in..
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 06, 2016, 05:52:30 pm
You'd fit right in..

Yeah but at least I can turn an engine over with no plugs and no rockers .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 06, 2016, 05:53:49 pm
.
Are ya gonna need someone to help ya turn the key over too?  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 06, 2016, 05:54:29 pm
.
Are ya gonna need someone to help ya turn the key over too?  :lmao:

Got the Mrs for that..
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 06, 2016, 06:11:05 pm
Got the Mrs for that..

Well then it looks like ya should of had her turn the wrench for ya too.  :thumb:

 :lmao:

..............................(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTtL-WsEP0_0tOhVJAsmyO3Blpo9H0qVTAdsbjInfimssYp7G2c)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 06, 2016, 06:13:24 pm
.
Hey it's a new forum record, 11,322 thoroughly satisfied voyurers.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 06, 2016, 06:28:02 pm
.
Hey it's a new forum record, 11,322 thoroughly satisfied voyurers.


Just in case anyone came here to actually learn something.

Apparently, no you do not "have" to degree a new cam..  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 06, 2016, 06:31:59 pm
.
By the way, the more rockers you put on, the harder it will be to turn over, so you might want to get a helper for that step   :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 06, 2016, 06:32:32 pm

Just in case anyone came here to actually learn something.

Apparently, no you do not "have" to degree a new cam..  :thumb:

 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 06, 2016, 07:14:05 pm
you must use a long bar to turn the engine over with or something  bad may happen.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 06, 2016, 07:51:16 pm
you must use a long bar to turn the engine over with or something  bad may happen.

Say what now ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 07, 2016, 12:00:30 am
Say what now ?
i mentioned to use a long bar in my earliest posts.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 07, 2016, 09:08:15 am
ok bitch, try to follow these simple instructions.

1. connect your fuel pump line . but i guess you figured that out on your own yesterday .  :lmao:

2. put number 1 on tdc fire position.

3. install distributor so the rotor points at the post you want to use for number 1 cylinder.

4. connect the coil and distributor wires.

5. install a SPARK plug in number 1 cyl and connect that plug wire.

6. connect a timing lite . if it is adjustable, make sure the know says ZERO.

7. have someone turn the engine over as you set the timing to exactly 12 degrees before top dead center . in your case this will be 12 degrees to the right of the black felt pen mark on your damper as you face the engine.

if no one can help you, then use a short screwdriver to connect the big post on the FRONT of the solenoid to the tiny post right next to it.

8. tighten distributor.

9. install remaining plugs and wires and check the wire routing THREE times.

10. your engine WILL instantly fire up when you turn the key.

 
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 07, 2016, 10:25:32 am

10. your engine WILL instantly fire up when you turn the key.


 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 07, 2016, 02:24:38 pm
Well would you fking believe it...

Rockers done

Engine rotates smoother than Glenn's nether regions..  :bolt:


 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 07, 2016, 02:28:28 pm
Well would you fking believe it...Rockers done

You're right,  we don't .  :lmao:



Engine rotates as smoother than Glenn's nether regions..  :bolt:

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

ummm, ok, if you say so, but please don't post photos or any further details. :lmao:
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 07, 2016, 02:31:30 pm
make sure the rocker adjusting nuts are pretty tight.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 07, 2016, 02:35:30 pm
You're right,  we don't .  :lmao:



ummm, ok, if you say so, but please don't post photos or any further details. :lmao:
.

Have faith brother  :bow:


No chance of firing it up today, battery was overnight 3 days ago so that's here "tomorrow" and i have to make brackets etc for the rad which will take a couple of hours.


Also i'm going to have to "pro" mod the side of the distributor slightly because the water temp sensor hits it..

And some other stuff...
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 07, 2016, 03:51:41 pm
Have faith brother  :bow:


No chance of firing it up today, battery was overnight 3 days ago so that's here "tomorrow" and i have to make brackets etc for the rad which will take a couple of hours.


Also i'm going to have to "pro" mod the side of the distributor slightly because the water temp sensor hits it..

And some other stuff...

what battery did you use the other day?

dont be like your "professional" engine builder and go grinding on your brand new shiny $400.00 distributor . post a photo of the prob.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 07, 2016, 04:11:51 pm
what battery did you use the other day?

dont be like your "professional" engine builder and go grinding on your brand new shiny $400.00 distributor . post a photo of the prob.

I used the old one but it wont fit now with the radiator in
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 07, 2016, 04:24:33 pm
I used the old one but it wont fit now with the radiator in

so put the old rad in and fire that pig up cuz were not gettin any younger here waitin on ya.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 07, 2016, 04:58:35 pm
so put the old rad in and fire that pig up cuz were not gettin any younger here waitin on ya.

Too late hombre, new one is in..
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 07, 2016, 05:01:47 pm
What 43 pages and still not going  :lmao:  what now its a battery problem ,didn't someone tell you bigger is not always better  :grin:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 07, 2016, 05:07:15 pm
What 43 pages and still not going  :lmao:  what now its a battery problem ,didn't someone tell you bigger is not always better  :grin:

He actually wanted a smaller one so I found a small case high amp lead one because he was to cheap to buy the 650 amp lithium battery for his "race car' that i told him about that weighed a whopping 5 lbs.


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 07, 2016, 05:08:54 pm
Too late hombre, new one is in..

well forget the brackets then and just use duck tape t hold it in an let er rip.

you do know that we want a sound clip of it too .  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 07, 2016, 06:14:51 pm
He actually wanted a smaller one so I found a small case high amp lead one because he was to cheap to buy the 650 amp lithium battery for his "race car' that i told him about that weighed a whopping 5 lbs.

It was a $800 AU battery, no way i could slip that one past the minister for war and finance..
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 07, 2016, 06:16:30 pm
What 43 pages and still not going  :lmao:  what now its a battery problem ,didn't someone tell you bigger is not always better  :grin:

There's only been a few pages of actual "work" Glenn  :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 07, 2016, 06:20:49 pm
It was a $800 AU battery, no way i could slip that one past the minister for war and finance..

So whats the big deal. You dumped nearly half that amount in gas and oil on your new driveway in the last 2 days .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 07, 2016, 06:21:59 pm
There's only been a few pages of actual "work" Glenn  :lmao: :lmao:

Yeah, just a few pages of work and probably just a few days of it too .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 07, 2016, 06:34:27 pm
So whats the big deal. You dumped nearly half that amount in gas and oil on your new driveway in the last 2 days .  :lmao:

I just wanted to see the look on my tree hugger neighbours face as i hosed it down the drain  :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 07, 2016, 06:45:24 pm
I just wanted to see the look on my tree hugger neighbours face as i hosed it down the drain  :lmao: :lmao:

ahhh ha ha....perhaps he would have preferred for you to lite it to dry it off instead.

By the way I'm sure you thought to buy acid for the battery so you can fill it up before you charge it on low for several hours.  :bolt:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 08, 2016, 05:19:20 pm
Well,


I managed to get it running and it idled for a good min or so.....

Then it began to shake itself to pieces and died..

 :ouch: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 08, 2016, 05:39:50 pm
Well,


I managed to get it running and it idled for a good min or so.....

Then it began to shake itself to pieces and died..

 :ouch: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

check the timing again.

make sure the distributor is tight,

make sure it has spark.

make sure it has gas.

how did the idle sound until it died, was it nastier than the other cam?

does it have spark?

does it still turn over?

try to start it and hold the rpm up to around 1500 and see what it does?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 08, 2016, 06:05:07 pm
 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


I'm just messing with ya matey..


Few things got in the way today so i didn't get a lot of time on it.


I know you all were nodding your heads thinking "yep knew that was gonna happen"  :toetapping: :lol:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 08, 2016, 06:11:42 pm
 :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao: Fitzy you are funnier than Barnett looks  :grin:  :thumb:  :leaving: .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 08, 2016, 10:40:58 pm
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


I'm just messing with ya matey..


Few things got in the way today so i didn't get a lot of time on it.


I know you all were nodding your heads thinking "yep knew that was gonna happen"  :toetapping: :lol:


So ya made me type all that for nothin huh?  :toetapping:

There is still PLENTY of time for me to get even.  :kickass: :kickass:





Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 09, 2016, 08:39:13 am

So ya made me type all that for nothin huh?  :toetapping:

There is still PLENTY of time for me to get even.  :kickass: :kickass:

Just checking your still committed..  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 09, 2016, 09:54:33 am
Just checking your still committed..  :lmao:

.................................(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-x_SenlfHdYs/U5jAt46oCZI/AAAAAAAAI5s/eBanamSuITQ/s1600/middle-finger.png)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 09, 2016, 12:28:09 pm
 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 09, 2016, 03:46:42 pm
How long approximately am i cranking the engine to set the 12 degrees ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 09, 2016, 03:53:51 pm
How long approximately am i cranking the engine to set the 12 degrees ?

3 to 5 seconds . it will flash right away.

if the timing s incorrect, stop and turn the distributor a little then check again.

it would be easier to see white out.

the black mark is presumably zero TDC . so put a white line 12 degrees to the right of it as you face the engine.
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 09, 2016, 06:41:16 pm
3 to 5 seconds . it will flash right away.

if the timing s incorrect, stop and turn the distributor a little then check again.

it would be easier to see white out.

the black mark is presumably zero TDC . so put a white line 12 degrees to the right of it as you face the engine.
.


Yeah i've marked everything with white out.


Looks like i have some wiring issues to sort. Everything is ready to go but it won't crank.

I'll get the work lights out tonight and sort it because i want to kick this thing in the guts and get it running first thing.


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 10, 2016, 12:18:19 am

Yeah i've marked everything with white out.


Looks like i have some wiring issues to sort. Everything is ready to go but it won't crank.

I'll get the work lights out tonight and sort it because i want to kick this thing in the guts and get it running first thing.

Well it cranked two days ago before you "fixed" the wiring .  :lmao:

What year is your pile o' crap?
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 10, 2016, 08:55:06 am
.................

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 10, 2016, 09:39:30 am
.

Ok rocket scientist.

On the back of ignition switch you have:

C POST - Pink . This wire goes to a big block on the firewall under under the dash on the left side where the pink color stops as it splays off into two different colored wires . It comes out of the block inside the engine compartment as a brown wire which goes to the small post on the solenoid that points slightly rearward.

The other wire joined to it at the block is Red with Green . This comes out of the firewall around 12" where it ends up at a 3 prong plug where it comes out the other side the same color then goes to the positive side of the coil.


S POST - Red Blue . This wire will fk you whenever it can . It comes out of the firewall by maybe 12" right behind the engine and goes to a 4 prong plug where it then goes to the neutral safety switch then comes back out to the other prong on the plug as Red Green which continues to the small post on the solenoid that points slightly forward.

You probably don't have the switch, but if you do, put the car in neutral and see if it turns over.

You can bypass this switch if you want by either unplugging it then simply connecting the two wires on the end that come out of the firewall together somehow, OR you may have to do something else . Can't remember right now.

Tell me the colors of all the wires on this plug and what side of the plug they are on.


B POST Yellow . This is full time power . It ties into a big black with Yellow wire which goes to the big front post on the starter solenoid . You should have 12 volts at this wire at the switch irregardless of what position the key is in.


A POST - We hope not to go there.


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 10, 2016, 04:17:08 pm
Well so much for firing it up today....  :cry:


Barn, i think we found the problem  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

At least i can breath a little now knowing it wasn't the motor..  :smilies:

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1442/26340273435_f2a55a21af_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/G8AMBr)20160410_161358 (https://flic.kr/p/G8AMBr) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 10, 2016, 04:26:19 pm
You think so  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 10, 2016, 04:27:33 pm
What f'n retard put that used stock starter in a f'n $18,000.00 engine.

You need a mini starter if one will fit.

Do you know what type of headers those are.


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 10, 2016, 04:42:23 pm
What f'n retard put that used stock starter in a f'n $18,000.00 engine.

My "pro" engine builders....  :wtf:

You need a mini starter if one will fit.

I'll suss it out

Do you know what type of headers those are.

They aren't made by them. They are made by some guy that makes them for there race cars and a heap other race teams not associated with them
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 10, 2016, 04:47:51 pm
Page 44  :cool:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 10, 2016, 04:52:33 pm
ok then you need to contact the header mfg and ask them if a mini starter will fit a 302 with those headers . do NOT by a mini starter until you find this out because it may not fit.

if you buy a mini starter, almost any of the cheaper ones will work fine unless they are made in china.



Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 10, 2016, 04:54:26 pm
Page 44  :cool:

All was going well Glenn

Kicked it over and it just stopped and i couldn't move it all by hand so instantly i was wearing the brown shorts thinking it was internal...

I need a Vodka or 20..  :cheers:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 10, 2016, 04:55:02 pm
ok then you need to contact the header mfg and ask them if a mini starter will fit a 302 with those headers . do NOT by a mini starter until you find this out because it may not fit.

if you buy a mini starter, almost any of the cheaper ones will work fine unless they are made in china.

Isn't everything made in ching wa these days?? ? :lol:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 10, 2016, 05:00:15 pm
Page 44  :cool:

Oh my god, I hope he doesn't start a thread asking what starter he should use .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 10, 2016, 05:01:49 pm
Isn't everything made in ching wa these days?? ? :lol:

No, the Trojan Twister Cait and I share [simultaneously] is made in Taiwan.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 10, 2016, 05:03:42 pm
All was going well Glenn

Until you touched it.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GEOFF289 on April 10, 2016, 05:05:47 pm
I know you love spending money but there is a cheap starter solution on the front page of the other forum who's name we shall not speak.

wwwdotmustangtechdotcomdotau
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 10, 2016, 05:08:28 pm
Oh my god, I hope he doesn't start a thread asking what starter he should use .  :lmao:

That is the best idea you've had yet...

 :thumb: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 10, 2016, 05:09:26 pm
Until you touched it.

Hey, i think ive got alot further than anyone thought..

Yes, with a lot of help of course
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 10, 2016, 05:17:39 pm
Hey, i think ive got alot further than anyone thought..

yes, you did . you went from having a bad cam and distributor gear to having an engine that wont even turn over because the starter grenaded . that is definitely some xlnt work .  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 10, 2016, 05:19:54 pm
That is the best idea you've had yet...

 :thumb: :lmao:

God I'm an idiot .  :thud:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 10, 2016, 05:22:26 pm
.
The noises you heard when turning it over by hand the other day were probably the starter motor.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 10, 2016, 05:26:28 pm
yes, you did . you went from having a bad cam and distributor gear to having an engine that wont even turn over because the starter grenaded . that is definitely some xlnt work .  :thumb:

Thanks to Dodgy Brothers Inc

You watch next week ill be dropping the trans in the driveway  :lol:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 10, 2016, 05:31:20 pm
Thanks to Dodgy Brothers Inc

You watch next week ill be dropping the trans in the driveway  :lol:

Sorry but fortunately i think i will be too busy to see that.

Ok, so put your friggen rockers back on the same cylinders you took them off of when the piston is on tc and if you have not committed a sin this week, you may not even have to adjust any of them.  :thumb:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 10, 2016, 05:33:53 pm
.

here are the starters . the mini starters are taller, so f you have room on top of the starter, you should be able to use one but im concerned about clearance because you couldnt get the top bolt out without removing the header.
.
http://www.vpw.com.au/Category/Index/88 (http://www.vpw.com.au/Category/Index/88)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 10, 2016, 05:44:30 pm
I ended up getting it off without doing that.

1/4 ratchet with a jigsaw of extensions.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 10, 2016, 05:52:03 pm
I ended up getting it off without doing that.

1/4 ratchet with a jigsaw of extensions.

one of the mini starters has a 3/4" thick flange . can you get it in if you put the bolt in the hole first then put the starter in place?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 10, 2016, 06:24:42 pm
ok.

these chinese offset starters will fit . you need it for 4 speed.

p/n PFEPM9172

http://www.vpw.com.au/Category/Index/6067 (http://www.vpw.com.au/Category/Index/6067)

http://www.proflow.com.au/catalog/6067?prodtype=1 (http://www.proflow.com.au/catalog/6067?prodtype=1)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 10, 2016, 06:27:02 pm
ok.

these chinese offset starters will fit . you need it for 4 speed.

http://www.vpw.com.au/Category/Index/6067 (http://www.vpw.com.au/Category/Index/6067)

http://www.proflow.com.au/catalog/6067?prodtype=1 (http://www.proflow.com.au/catalog/6067?prodtype=1)

$120 bargain !

I'll get one "overnight " tomorrow
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 10, 2016, 06:28:27 pm
$120 bargain !

I'll get one "overnight " tomorrow

heres the part number.

PFEPM9172

Ask about their warranty .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 10, 2016, 06:48:58 pm
Ok, so put your friggen rockers back on the same cylinders you took them off of when the piston is on tc and if you have not committed a sin this week, you may not even have to adjust any of them.  :thumb:

Yeah, about that.....

Because i was in a blind panic

I didn't really pay attention which was which as i was removing them. And i had to loosen most of the adjusters to get them off.  :shrug:

I have expert level experience now taking them on and off, so it shouldn't take me long  :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 10, 2016, 07:50:08 pm
Page 45  :cool:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 10, 2016, 08:25:24 pm
Page 45  :cool:

People must be looking at the title then seeing the thread is 45 pages long and wondering if the op is retarded .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: mwizz on April 10, 2016, 11:19:57 pm
That's exactly what I was thinking
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 11, 2016, 08:53:10 am

People must be looking at the title then seeing the thread is 45 pages long and wondering if the op is retarded .  :lmao:


That's enough from the peanut gallery.. :lol:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 11, 2016, 09:03:26 am

That's enough from the peanut gallery.. :lol:

Not hardly.

Hey, did you get your Chinese starter ordered for delivery today?

I think Google can translte the instructions into English for ya .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 11, 2016, 09:25:35 am
Not hardly.

Hey, did you get your Chinese starter ordered for delivery today?

I think Google can translte the instructions into English for ya .  :lmao:

Ordered the Proflow one "over night "


Why does it matter when i have you to do that for me...  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 11, 2016, 09:33:11 am
Ordered the Proflow one "over night "

You ordered it yesterday?

Are your rockers back on?

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 11, 2016, 09:37:14 am
You ordered it yesterday?

Are your rockers back on?

No about 1/2 hr ago. Will be here tomorrow.

Rang around locally but all i could get was a "reconditioned" original for $299  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


Jesus mate, it's 9.30am. Give a man time to wake up, have a coffee, bit of bacon & eggs...  :toetapping:  :lol:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 11, 2016, 09:58:59 am
Rang around locally but all i could get was a "reconditioned" original for $299  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

You already have a "reconditioned" one . It's condition was re-configured from a working one into scrap metal.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 11, 2016, 10:17:51 am
You already have a "reconditioned" one . It's condition was re-configured from a working one into scrap metal.

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

It's custom
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 11, 2016, 10:31:13 am
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

It's custom

Are there any other fine parts your "builder" included that we might want to know about?

Please don't tel us that he "rebuilt" the brakes too.  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 11, 2016, 10:57:47 am
Are there any other fine parts your "builder" included that we might want to know about?

Please don't tel us that he "rebuilt" the brakes too.  :lmao:

 :lmao:

Who would know at this rate..

Brakes are Wilwood but i might check them, could have just drawn Wilwood on the caliper with sharpie  :shrug:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 13, 2016, 11:00:49 am
.
Hey, how does your new starter motor fit .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 13, 2016, 01:59:36 pm
Here's the final wiring . Leave the other small wires on the starter.

(http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/attachments/galaxie-pages/63057d1388364755-starter-wiring-install-question-340.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 13, 2016, 02:44:50 pm
.
Hey, you are setting a new record for the longest starter installation.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 13, 2016, 03:01:54 pm
The new starter is coming from China and its a long way away ,not like Mexico next door to you Barnett , so we can't get one of the border jumpers to bring it over on there trip .  :lmao: .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 13, 2016, 04:14:53 pm
.
Hey, you are setting a new record for the longest starter installation.  :thumb:

Hey starter was in, took about 5 mins it's the Dodgy Mcdodge wiring that's the issue...  :toetapping:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 13, 2016, 04:15:02 pm
The new starter is coming from China and its a long way away ,not like Mexico next door to you Barnett , so we can't get one of the border jumpers to bring it over on there trip .  :lmao: .

Bummer for you guys . It seems like the Mexicans make faster deliveries that your "overnight" postal service does.  :lmao:
 
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 13, 2016, 04:17:15 pm
Hey starter was in, took about 5 mins it's the Dodgy Mcdodge wiring that's the issue...  :toetapping:

You've been trying to connect just two wires for an hour and a half now . You should be glad it isn't four wires .
 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 13, 2016, 04:18:04 pm
You've been trying to connect just two wires for an hour and a half now . You should be glad it isn't fur wires .  :lmao:

Just answer the PM mofo..  :toetapping: :lmao:


Well the 2 "wires" are wired the opposite to what your saying and there are the other 6 "wires" that are also either connected wrong or not needed at all...

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1632/26336285051_8c69a7e4f3.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/G8fm1c)5239145 (https://flic.kr/p/G8fm1c) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/), on Flickr

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 13, 2016, 04:23:21 pm
Just answer the PM mofo..  :toetapping: :lmao:


Well the 2 "wires" are wired the opposite to what your saying and there are the other 6 "wires" that are also either connected wrong or not needed at all...

your starter had 8 wires on it?

i don't have a pm.
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 13, 2016, 04:35:55 pm
.
now its 2 hours . is that an hour for each wire or 1 1/2 for one and 1/2 for the other .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 13, 2016, 05:20:58 pm
.
going on three hours now.  :shrug:

with this sort of meticulous attention to detail, those two wires must look spectacular.  :thumb:
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 13, 2016, 05:30:06 pm
with this sort of meticulous attention to detail, those two wires must look spectacular.  :thumb:

 :agree:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 13, 2016, 05:39:41 pm
I forgot just how great it feels to cop a boot from hv leads..

 :cry:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 13, 2016, 05:42:39 pm
I forgot just how great it feels to cop a boot from hv leads..

 :cry:

its good fer ya . keeps the heart up to speed .   :thumb:


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 13, 2016, 05:43:15 pm
its good fer ya . keeps the heart up to speed .  :lmao:

Yeah it was tops...  :thud: :lmao:

Feel like i've got Red Bull on an IV
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 13, 2016, 05:44:52 pm
Yeah it was tops...  :thud: :lmao:

i bet you did something i did NOT tell you to do didn't ya?   :shrug:

some people never learn.   :kickass:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 13, 2016, 05:49:29 pm
i bet you did something i did NOT tell you to do.  :lmao:

some people never learn.  :shrug:

I think i just put my hand somewhere i shouldn't have..

Zaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap !!


It was should i say, electrifying !!


See what i did there.....  :bolt:

 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 13, 2016, 05:54:08 pm
I think i just put my hand somewhere i shouldn't have..

Zaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap !!


It was should i say, electrifying !!


See what i did there.....  :bolt:

 :lmao:

i know exactly what you did there skippy, you touched the top of the distributor cap.   :thumb:

look on the bright side, at least you know it has power to it an plenty of it .  :lmao:
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 13, 2016, 05:56:32 pm
.
why don't you stick your tongue on it next...pleeeease .  :bolt:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 13, 2016, 06:01:33 pm
.
and i'm so glad i waited up for this. 

:thud: :thud:  :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud:

  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 13, 2016, 06:02:19 pm
i know exactly what you did there skippy, you touched the top of the distributor cap.   :thumb:


Have absolutely no idea what your talking about...  :bolt:

 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 13, 2016, 06:03:13 pm
.
and i'm so glad i waited up for this. 

:thud: :thud:  :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud:

  :lmao:

Its not like you do anything else it seems... :lol:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: boofhead on April 13, 2016, 07:02:37 pm
Is this a blossoming Bromance?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 14, 2016, 01:10:56 am
Is this a blossoming Bromance?

Could have been but due to my recent break up with Cait I need some time to myself first. 

:cry:


 
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 14, 2016, 01:12:03 am
.
ok, I'm over him...her...it, now.  :smile01:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 14, 2016, 01:14:08 am
Its not like you do anything else it seems... :lol:

That's because I can't seem to tear myself away from you.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 14, 2016, 08:43:48 am
That's because I can't seem to tear myself away from you.  :thumb:

Your only human...  :lol:


Timing done.

Although the coil is sparking intermittently from the negative terminal for some reason  :shrug:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 14, 2016, 03:57:27 pm
Page 46 , Boring ,come on guys we are falling a sleep here .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 14, 2016, 04:31:37 pm
.
(http://cdn.phillymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/please-kill-me.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 14, 2016, 05:07:36 pm
.
....as soon as possible!
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 14, 2016, 06:03:35 pm
Look, it ain't my fault.


I followed your busted @ss instructions...  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:



At least it's running,

sort of......  :lol:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 14, 2016, 06:12:20 pm
Look, it ain't my fault.

I followed your busted @ss instructions...  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


ummm, no you didn't . you dd not have the timing set at 10 btdc for number 1 cylinder on the fire/compression stroke and it was around exactly 180 degrees off just like i told you it was when you described the problem . this is why it ran when we moved the plug wires half way around the cap, but what do i know.  :lmao:

it also ran on because it had a wiring problem just like i said it did before you told me you wired the coil directly to the battery .  :thumb:



Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 14, 2016, 06:15:32 pm
ummm, no you didn't . you dd not have the timing set at 10 btdc for number 1 cylinder and it was around exactly 180 degrees off just like i told you it was when you described the problem . this is why it ran when we moved the plugs half way around the cap.  :lmao:

Well we got there in the end  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

You said you were bored, so i tried to fix that....  :lol: :therethere:


I'm just stoked it starts, there are no leaks and it kind of idles kinda sorta  :thumb:  :lol:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 14, 2016, 06:17:10 pm
Well we got there in the end  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I'm just stoked it starts, there are no leaks and it kind of idles kinda sorta  :thumb:  :lol:

Well, I can make it run perfect if you want it to, but to do that you cant be like my wife is . 

:lmao:

It may very well idle slightly rougher than your other cam even if it is perfectly tuned because it is not the exact same profile, but it should idle rough because it is a "race car".  :lmao:


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 14, 2016, 06:19:10 pm


it also ran on because it had a wiring problem just like i said it did before you told me you wired the coil directly to the battery .  :thumb:


And this was on the advise of my auto lec buddy just to get it started. I just forgot that's why it was running on..

Your grasping at straws Barn, the ranting of a desperate man...  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 14, 2016, 06:22:35 pm
Well, I can make it run perfect if you want it to, but to do that you cant be like my wife is .  :lmao:

That's tomorrows job..  :thumb: :lmao: :lmao:

By perfect, i hope you mean no spitting through the carbs and backfiring like it used to...
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 14, 2016, 06:22:54 pm

And this was on the advise of my auto lec buddy just to get it started. I just forgot that's why it was running on..

Your grasping at straws Barn, the ranting of a desperate man...  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

well if he is so smart than why didn't you have him tell you exactly how to install the cam and set up the distributor gear and timing chain and tell you which parts were good and where to get them .  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GEOFF289 on April 14, 2016, 06:23:13 pm
So are we nearly back to tuning the Webers where we started?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 14, 2016, 06:24:27 pm
By perfect, i hope you mean no spitting through the carbs and backfiring like it used to...

What do you mean? . That is what a true fire breathing "race car" is supposed to do.  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 14, 2016, 06:26:40 pm
So are we nearly back to tuning the Webers where we started?

Yes, after maybe only 3 more hours to finalize the timing . It only took him 4 hours to move the plug wires 180 degrees and turn the distributor a little .  :lmao:

Perhaps he should also start a new thread for that one.  :thud:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 14, 2016, 06:27:08 pm
well if he is so smart than why didn't you have him tell you exactly how to install the cam and set up the distributor gear and timing chain and tell you which parts were good and where to get them .  :lmao:

C'mon he's an electrician. What do they know about anything ?  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 14, 2016, 06:28:04 pm
So are we nearly back to tuning the Webers where we started?

We have come full circle Geoff  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 14, 2016, 06:29:53 pm
C'mon he's an electrician. What do they know about anything ?  :lmao:

Your right, otherwise he might have told ya that if your car actually started, it wouldn't shut off with the fkn KEY.

You and him are bigger clowns than Laurel and Hardy.  :thumb:

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 14, 2016, 06:31:57 pm
Your right, otherwise he might have told ya that if your car actually started, it wouldn't shut off with the fkn KEY.

You and him are bigger clowns than Laurel and Hardy.  :thumb:

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

 :lmao:

Well, he actually had a bit of a giggle about that earlier...  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 14, 2016, 06:34:05 pm
Well, he actually had a bit of a giggle about that earlier...  :lmao:

He must be friends with your engine builder and doesn't like you either.  :lmao:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 14, 2016, 06:34:49 pm
Once this thread is done.

We can move the party back to the Carb Issues thread...

 :thumb:  :lmao:

OMG, you don't have a CARBURETOR.  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 14, 2016, 06:37:00 pm
YOU DON'T HAVE A CARB .  :lmao:

Tomato, tomato...


Just think of all the good times still to be had if we have to pull the Webers apart...  :thumb: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 14, 2016, 06:39:27 pm
Tomato, tomato...


Just think of all the good times still to be had if we have to pull the Webers apart...  :thumb: :lmao: :lmao:

(http://s.quickmeme.com/img/1d/1d2faf3a4e184f4fc7dbcfb75e253bc1b78aecd52933f3fdd4d3c8b728db87f0.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 14, 2016, 06:49:03 pm
 :therethere:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 03:02:14 am
OK, BEFORE TOUCHING ANYTHING, YOU MUST DO THE FOLLOWING:.

1. ANSWER ALL THE QUESTIONS I ASKED YOU YESTERDAY AFTER YOU MARKED THE DISTRIBUTOR.

2. ANSWER ALL NEW QUESTIONS.

3. EXPLAIN TEST RESULTS IN DETAIL.

4. DO NOT ASK MORE THAN ONE QUESTION PER HOUR.


NEW QUESTIONS

DO YOU HAVE A THERMOSTAT?

DOES YOUR TIMING COVER HAVE THIS SMALL HOLE 40 MM TO THE LEFT OF THE FUEL PUMP MOUNTING HOLE OR DOES IT HAVE A 12 MM DIAMETER POST THAT STICKS OUT 20 MM?


THINGS TO DO THIS MORNING.

TAKE A PHOTO OF THE OTHER SIDE OF YOUR DAMPER FROM AROUND 3 FEET AWAY AS YOU STAND ON THE SIDE OF THE OTHER FENDER.

TAKE A CLOSE UP PHOTO OF THE FRONT OF YOUR TIMING COVER BY THE FUEL PUMP.

TAKE A PHOTO OF THE "CARBS" FROM THE SIDES SO WE CAN SEE THE THROTTLE LINKAGE.

TAKE A CLOSE UP PHOTO OF THE THROTTLE LINKKAGE FROM THE SIDE OF THE CARBS.

IF YOU CAN GET THIS NEARBY TODAY, BUY A US SIZE NUMBER 10 X 24 THREAD BOLT OR SCREW AROUND 3/8" TO 1/2" LONG AND 3 FLAT WASHERS WITH A FAIRLY LARGE OUTSIDE DIAMETER LIKE 10 MM . NUMBER 10 IS THE SAME SIZE AS 3/16".

(http://images.cjponyparts.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/t/c/tcc6.jpg)


.............................................. POST TYPE ON EARLY CARS

..............................(http://diyford.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/143.jpg)


IF YOU CAN SEE A TIMING POINTER EASIER FROM THE OTHER SIDE, I MAY HAVE YOU BUY THIS ORIGINAL STYLE POINTER OR MAKE ONE FROM A COAT HANGER . UNFORTUNATELY, YOUR RADIATOR HOSE MAY OBSTRUCT YOUR VIEW . IF IT DOES, WE CAN MAKE A COAT HANGER ONE AND MAKE IT SO IT IS LONGER AND PUT THE TIMING MARKS ON THE PULLEY IF WE NEED TO.

.......................(http://diyford.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/153.jpg)


THIS IS HOW TO MAKE A TIMING POINTER

1. get a 10 x 24 hex head bolt 3/8" long for the tiny open hole you see in your photo and a flat washer for the screw and a 6" piece of 12 or 14 gauge [small diameter] solid copper wire around two inches long.

2. remove the plastic coating from the wire and put a small loop in one end of the wire just big enough for the screw to go through.

3. put a 90 degree bend in it around 1/2" away from the loop so the end will stick out over the damper.

4. put the washer on the screw then lightly tighten it to see if clears the damper . . bend it until it fits properly then cut the extra length rotate it to the proper position then tighten the screw with moderate force.

Notice that the end of the pointer is slightly to the left of the bolt . . simply rotate your wire until it is close to the same location then put white out on the end.
.



Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 05:55:06 am
.
You have one broken screw and 3 loose screws on the base of the throttle linkage tower.

ARE THESE SCREWS NOW TIGHT?


FROM POST 882 . CLICK ON IMAGE TO ENLARGE IT

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1670/26080766596_670a8d921c_k.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 09:00:55 am
VIDEO ANALYSIS

VIDEO 1

The engine does not have quite enough advance . Around 5 degrees more will make it happy.

I can not hear any backfiring, just a rough idle.


VIDEO 2

Is this with the timing advanced once or twice from the mark on the distributor and block?

This seems to idle a little smoother than video 1 and timing seems to be be almost perfect . It might idle a little smoother with 2 more degrees and it might not . It probably does not need more than 2 degrees more.

I can not hear any backfiring,  just a rough idle.

Your idle will increase a little and smooth out a little once the engine has run for maybe 5 minutes.

It may run a little smoother if we fk with the carbs, HOWEVER, it is NOT going to idle like your new $90,000.00 "semi multi fuel" turbo chraged land cruiser.

The way it idles in video 2 is pretty much how it is going to idle because it i a 'race car" an your previous cam should have been similar but maybe not quite as rough . its hard to say.



.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 15, 2016, 09:19:29 am
     :omg:  It lives ,its alive  :birthday: :banana: :banana: :elefant: :pepper: :fingerx: :cool:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 09:41:41 am
     :omg:  It lives ,its alive  :birthday: :banana: :banana: :elefant: :pepper: :fingerx: :cool:

Yes but now he wants to f'k with it until it doesn't  :lmao:

VIDEO 1

The engine was cold and he had to keep his foot on the gas slightly to keep it running.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vlqmU7uGHU&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vlqmU7uGHU&feature=youtu.be)


VIDEO 2

This was taken 5 minutes later afer I had him advance the timing . I am uncertain how far it is advanced for this test because he has not told me even though I have asked him FOUR TIMES.  :shrug:

It runs a hair smother plus he did not have to keep his foot on the pedal . This is acceptable and very, very close because it will be a tiny bit better after the engine is warm.   :thumb:

We are doing all this WITHOUT a timing lite....don't ask why.  :thud:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InQEJKeuckU&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InQEJKeuckU&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 10:35:14 am
.
oops...looks like we have water injection into the oil and the rear of the intake is leaking.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 15, 2016, 10:38:42 am
But it would be nice to put a timing light on it to see what its doing  :grin: .  Fitzy go buy a timing light if you don't own one .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 10:44:26 am
But it would be nice to put a timing light on it to see what its doing  :grin: .  Fitzy go buy a timing light if you don't own one .

Well, he has a timing lite but cant see the pointer his expert engine builder put on this side of his engine.
:lmao:

This s why I suggested a pointer on the other side.  :thumb:

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1480/25817484923_7a481255d9_k.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on April 15, 2016, 10:50:47 am
If you dont have a timing light, put a vacuum gauge on it and advance the timing till you get max vacuum, you may need to retard it from there  later but this will make it run the best to start with
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 10:53:28 am
If you dont have a timing light, put a vacuum gauge on it and advance the timing till you get max vacuum, you may need to retard it from there  later but this will make it run the best to start with

shaun, see my post above . you must have missed it.

He also has some water in the oil and a leak at the back of the intake, so it looks like it did not seal properly . At least that is the hope instead of the timing cover.
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 15, 2016, 10:57:28 am
Hmm a plastic fan and no fan shroud . You want to see to that so it doesn't over heat in traffic ,whoops I forgot its a race engine .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 11:03:49 am
Hmm a plastic fan and no fan shroud . You want to see to that so it doesn't over heat in traffic ,whoops I forgot its a race engine .

I have never seen a fan with that steep of a pitch either . Must be some top secret race stuff and is made from prefabulated amulite or something . Or perhaps the builder used that type so the blades wouldn't go thru the bonnet when they fly off.

 :lmao:

Also notice the "auxiliary" fan belt sheaves . If the other one wears out in the middle of a race, you can just move the belt forward.  :thumb:

I'm pretty sure his industrial strength alternator bracket won't break though.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 15, 2016, 11:09:44 am
Hardy ha friggin ha  :lmao:  :cry:


It was so good to hear it run, and actually run and not grenade itself...

So i did all the hard stuff right it seems but now something as simple as a leak...

FFS  :ouch: :ouch: :ouch: :ouch:

 :thud:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 15, 2016, 11:10:32 am
I have never seen a fan with that steep of a pitch either . Must be some top secret race stuff and is made from prefabulated amulite or something . Or perhaps the builder used that type so the blades wouldn't go thru the bonnet when they fly off.

 :lmao:

Also notice the "auxiliary" fan belt sheaves . If the other one wears out in the middle of a race, you can just move the belt forward.  :thumb:

I'm pretty sure his industrial strength alternator bracket won't break though.


Anything else ??  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 11:11:50 am
Hardy ha friggin ha  :lmao:  :cry:


It was so good to hear it run, and actually run and not grenade itself...

So i did all the hard stuff right it seems but now something as simple as a leak...

FFS  :ouch: :ouch: :ouch: :ouch:

 :thud:

Well look on the bright side, the inside of your engine has now been "washed" so it's very clean.  :lmao:
.
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 15, 2016, 11:13:21 am
Well look on the bright side, the inside of your engine has now been "washed" so it's very clean.  :lmao:
.
.


Don't forget the $160 in oil..  :thud:


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 11:13:33 am

Anything else ??  :lmao:

Yes, but I thought that was enough for now.  :lmao:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 11:15:07 am

Don't forget the $160 in oil..  :thud:

Oh no prob . Just put it in one of the misses big pans then put it on the stove and heat it to 215 f and all the water will simply evaporate right out of it.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 15, 2016, 11:15:51 am
Alright, well.

Time to go pull the fkn intake back off...


Here i was thinking. Get the timing etc sorted today, dash etc back together and maybe take it for a run next day or so.


And the gods just gave me the fk YOU !!  :cry: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 11:17:09 am
Alright, well.

Time to go pull the fkn intake back off...


Here i was thinking. Get the timing etc sorted today, dash etc back together and maybe take it for a run next day or so.


And the gods just gave me the fk YOU !!  :cry: :lmao: :lmao:

Check a couple bolts first just so you know if they were loose or not.


Hey, this will also give you the bonus of being able to check the pattern on your fancy new dist gear.  :lmao:


MARK WHERE THE ROTOR IS ON THE DISTRIBUTOR SO YOU WONT NEED TO SPEND ANOTHER 4 HOURS TRYING TO GET IT TO RUN.
.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 15, 2016, 11:20:52 am
Check a couple bolts first just so you know if they were loose or not.

When facing the engine.

The leak is coming from the back left, and from what i can see its right in the corner where the head, block and intake meet each other.

From what i can tell anyway.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 11:21:39 am
You taking the piss right ?

No, I already urinated earlier today.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 15, 2016, 11:26:47 am
No, I already urinated earlier today.

Your not serious about cooking the oil
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 15, 2016, 11:33:31 am
Page 48  :cool:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 15, 2016, 11:36:40 am
What,  does it have water in the oil ? By the way Fitzy you have done an amazing job  :thumb: .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GEOFF289 on April 15, 2016, 11:40:17 am
Your not serious about cooking the oil

Even if he is there will be consequences doing what he said that will make the dramas you have faced until now pale into insignificance.

As Glenn said, amazing job. I'm in awe of you taking this on and have learnt a lot, mostly that I'm staying on outside of my engine.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 15, 2016, 11:40:24 am
What,  does it have water in the oil ? By the way Fitzy you have done an amazing job  :thumb: .

Cheers mate,

Yeah, im hoping its the intake.

There is a small leak from the rear left, maybe i didn't seal around the port well enough. I hope that's it and not the timing cover


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 15, 2016, 11:43:02 am
The bolt second from the rear on the left side was i guess loose.

When i say loose it was tight but i could still tighten it maybe a few mm or so.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 15, 2016, 11:52:31 am
Even if he is there will be consequences doing what he said that will make the dramas you have faced until now pale into insignificance.

As Glenn said, amazing job. I'm in awe of you taking this on and have learnt a lot, mostly that I'm staying on outside of my engine.

Thanks buddy.

Consequences ? As in my wife walking in to a big pot of engine oil cooking away on the stove..  :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 12:14:35 pm
Consequences ? As in my wife walking in to a big pot of engine oil cooking away on the stove..  :lmao: :lmao:

...in HER cooking pot....Just trying to help.  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 12:16:43 pm
The bolt second from the rear on the left side was i guess loose.

When i say loose it was tight but i could still tighten it maybe a few mm or so.

ok, then you definitely did NOT follow my instructions exactly, which is obviously kind of a bad thing.

Hopefully there will be something obvious to see.
.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GEOFF289 on April 15, 2016, 12:18:16 pm
Yep, that's what I meant.

Great day here in Melbourne so I'm taking my Mustang and my beloved for a drive up into the hills for a coffee or something. Did you know that you can do that with these cars? Drive them?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 12:19:59 pm
Yep, that's what I meant.

Couldn't help myself.


Great day here in Melbourne so I'm taking my Mustang and my beloved for a drive up into the hills for a coffee or something. Did you know that you can do that with these cars? Drive them?

Cruel!  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 12:22:52 pm
.
Hey Fitzy, maybe you should stat a new thread titled "How do you PROPERLY intstall an intake manifold?".  :bolt:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 15, 2016, 01:05:28 pm
Yep, that's what I meant.

Great day here in Melbourne so I'm taking my Mustang and my beloved for a drive up into the hills for a coffee or something. Did you know that you can do that with these cars? Drive them?


Hope it breaks down Geoff  :toetapping: :lmao:

I just like using mine as a very expensive driveway ornament..  :cry:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 15, 2016, 01:10:45 pm
Alright,

Intake off it is...

Enjoy the drive Geoff....  :thumbdown:  :lol:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 15, 2016, 01:24:21 pm
.
Hey Fitzy, maybe you should stat a new thread titled "How do you PROPERLY intstall an intake manifold?".  :bolt:


(http://i.imgur.com/epmC6YK.gif)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 15, 2016, 01:45:45 pm
So it got water into the sump/ pan  :thud:   So fresh oil and filter needed .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 01:46:30 pm

(http://i.imgur.com/epmC6YK.gif)

HAPPY GILMORE!
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 15, 2016, 01:48:46 pm
Page 49   :thud:  :cool:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 01:49:35 pm
So it got water into the sump/ pan  :thud:   So fresh oil and filter needed .

Hey, try simply bailing it out with one of these . I think 500 gallons per hour should be enough.  :thumb:

(http://www.submarineboat.com/images/rov/bilge_pump.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 01:51:20 pm
.
oops...I forgot to include the wiring diagram.  :smile01:

(http://www.boatus.com/boattech/assets/img/14_A.gif)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 01:59:04 pm
.
If you are on a budget you could try the hand model . A big strong guy like you that can easily turn over a used v8 engine with no plugs in it by hand shouldn't have  problem pumping it.  :bolt:

(http://newcontent.westmarine.com/content/images/catalog/full/2845360.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 15, 2016, 02:17:39 pm
So it got water into the sump/ pan  :thud:   So fresh oil and filter needed .

Yep, happy days..  :thud:  :thumbdown:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 15, 2016, 02:19:25 pm
Hey, try simply bailing it out with one of these . I think 500 gallons per hour should be enough.  :thumb:

(http://www.submarineboat.com/images/rov/bilge_pump.jpg)


Pump it straight onto the driveway...  :bolt:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 02:23:02 pm

Pump it straight onto the driveway...  :bolt:

ummm...you already did that...TWICE . Or aren't you counting the 10 liters of gas you used to try to wash the oil ff with? :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 15, 2016, 02:52:03 pm
ummm...you already did that...TWICE . Or aren't you counting the 10 liters of gas you used to try to wash the oil ff with? :lmao:

Trying to give Deepwater Horizon a run for it's money...  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 15, 2016, 02:57:44 pm
Alright,

Looks like i fk'd up with the intake install..

There's a pool of milky grey oil at the back of the intake valley and where the rtv sits on the china wall.

 :thud:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 03:01:13 pm
Alright,

Looks like i fk'd up with the intake install..

There's a pool of milky grey oil at the back of the intake valley and where the rtv sits on the china wall.

 :thud:

that does not mean anything.

dont take the gasket or any silicone off.

take photos where i told you plus take some of the 4 corners of the intake and the end where the silicone was used for an end seal . you can put it on a box or hang th ends off a work bench one at a time to get these.

clean then photograph the distributor gear also.





Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 15, 2016, 03:12:53 pm
that does not mean anything.

dont take the gasket off.

take photos.

No point,

Parts of the gasket came off with the intake for some fkn reason..

There cactus, ill have to order new ones on Mon.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 03:16:31 pm
No point,

Parts of the gasket came off with the intake for some fkn reason..

There cactus, ill have to order new ones on Mon.

take the photos anyway . you dont know what i am looking for.

you also didn't give me the part number of the gaskets . the same gaskets may do the same thing.

dont take any silicone off either.

take photos where i told you plus take some of the 4 corners of the intake and the end where the silicone was used for an end seal . you can put it on a box or hang the ends off a work bench one at a time to get these.

clean then photograph the distributor gear also.





Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 15, 2016, 03:20:11 pm
take the photos anyway . you dont know what i am looking for.


Welll, ummmm.

Because it ripped a heap of the gasket up.

I've already cleaned a lot of it off...  :thud:  :bolt:


I know, i know....
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 03:27:47 pm
better not get ANY of that gasket in the intake ports or the engine.


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 15, 2016, 03:31:26 pm
better not get ANY of that gasket in the intake ports or the engine.

Blocked all the ports and have rags etc covering everything else..

I used a small vac last time to suck the sh!t up as i was scraping it off
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 03:44:20 pm
Blocked all the ports and have rags etc covering everything else..

I used a small vac last time to suck the sh!t up as i was scraping it off

yes but you cant get it all . put newspaper in the valley also and tuck the edges under the head.

if the last gaskets were .060" thick, i wold use ones that are .090" etc.

you also need to torque them exactly, exactly how i said.



Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 15, 2016, 04:37:38 pm
yes but you cant get it all . put newspaper in the valley also and tuck the edges under the head.

if the last gaskets were .060" thick, i wold use ones that are .090" etc.

you also need to torque them exactly, exactly how i said.

Gaskets were the right ones, Fel Pro 1262. Also had R3 on them.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 15, 2016, 05:30:25 pm
Even though it sounded like a tractor at least i got to hear it run for the first time in nearly 4 months.

And it didn't blow up !!!  :pepper: :lmao:

https://youtu.be/6vlqmU7uGHU
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 05:35:53 pm
Even though it sounded like a tractor at least i got to hear it run for the first time in nearly 4 months.

And it didn't blow up !!!  :pepper: :lmao:

https://youtu.be/6vlqmU7uGHU

ummm read my previous thread . video two is how it will idle with that cam . your timing was near perfect.

 
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 15, 2016, 05:54:53 pm
ummm read my previous thread . video two is how it will idle with that cam . your timing was near perfect.

https://youtu.be/InQEJKeuckU


Ok, it's definitely a bit choppier than the old cam if that's the case.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 06:10:34 pm
https://youtu.be/InQEJKeuckU


Ok, it's definitely a bit choppier than the old cam if that's the case.

ummm, that is the case then .  it has a little more duration at .050" lift and steeper ramps and more lift than the other cam, so in effect, it has more overlap . i think you will be quite happy once you mash the gas pedal. :thumb:

after all, it is a "race car" is it not?  :lmao:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 15, 2016, 06:15:33 pm
.
IS THAT WHAT YOU THOUGHT WAS BACKFIRING?

I STILL NEED THE CRANK DAMPER AND TIMING COVER PHOTOS.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GEOFF289 on April 15, 2016, 08:33:59 pm

Hope it breaks down Geoff  :toetapping: :lmao:



It didn't. 50 something miles through the Dandenong Ranges with the windows down and the exhaust echoing off the hills. Great day out.

Checked the oil and water before I started it and they appeared to be quite separate. You should try that.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 16, 2016, 05:52:41 am
Checked the oil and water before I started it and they appeared to be quite separate. You should try that.

That comment is just inhumane.  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 16, 2016, 07:43:23 am
Hey, if you feel up to it, set your intake on then place around .200" thickness of feeler gauge in the center between the block and intake where the end seal would go to space it up, then take two photos similar to this but from a little more head on of both sides of the intake so we can see the gaps . Use a feeler gauge in the rear also if you have two of them or fold up a piece of a file folder and use that as a spacer etc . Spacing both ends up will help make a more accurate representation of the intake gasket space . We may also be able to tell if your intake is square to the heads etc.

(http://image.hotrod.com/f/66315390+w660+h495+cr1/measuring-china-wall-gap.jpg]http://image.hotrod.com/f/66315390+w660+h495+cr1/measuring-china-wall-gap.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 16, 2016, 07:51:22 am
Page 50  :thud:  :cool:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GEOFF289 on April 16, 2016, 07:53:05 am
That comment is just inhumane.  :lmao:

Geez, look who's talking!

OK, I guess unlike me you are helping him so get to amuse yourself along the way.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 16, 2016, 08:02:08 am
Geez, look who's talking!

OK, I guess unlike me you are helping him so get to amuse yourself along the way.

Exactly...I feel entitled to abuse him some for all the CRAP he has put me through when he does NOT do exactly what I suggested.  :lmao:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 16, 2016, 08:05:35 am
Page 50  :thud:  :cool:

We're going for a new record.  :thumb:

He did ask me if he should take his carburetors off to make the intake lighter and I said NO.  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 16, 2016, 08:14:05 am
   :omg:  :lmao: .Take the carbs off,  NO WAY ,it would take another 10 pages to refit them  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 16, 2016, 08:26:58 am
 :omg: Page 50  :birthday: :elefant: :fantastic: :banana: :pepper: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 16, 2016, 08:42:44 am
   :omg:  :lmao: .Take the carbs off,  NO WAY ,it would take another 10 pages to refit them  :lmao:

I think your estimate is rather conservative.  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 16, 2016, 08:50:46 am
Gone a few hours and the knives are out...  :toetapping: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 16, 2016, 09:03:48 am
Gone a few hours and the knives are out...  :toetapping: :lmao:

We just wanted you to know that you have not been forgotten and that we are thinking of you...poorly. 

:thumb: 

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 16, 2016, 09:14:25 am
We just wanted you to know that you have not been forgotten and that we are thinking of you...poorly. 

:thumb:


We've hit the 1/2 tonne  :flag:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 16, 2016, 09:22:08 am

We've hit the 1/2 tonne  :flag:

Hey, get off the internet and your ass, and get us some intake and damper photos cuz some of us are tryin to get some work done here.  :lmao:

By the way, I was just wondering if the new oil from your intake that leaked onto your new driveway ran downhill any faster than the oil from your disconnected oil pressure hose did now that your drive has been "pre-lubricated"?

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 16, 2016, 09:39:48 am
Hey, get off the internet and your ass, and get us some intake and damper photos cuz some of us are tryin to get some work done here.  :lmao:


By the way, I was just wondering if the new oil from your intake that leaked onto your new driveway ran downhill any faster than the oil from your disconnected oil pressure hose did now that your drive has been "pre-lubricated"?

Page 30, damper.

Pump the brakes, it's 9.30 Sat morning..  :lmao:


Your living in the past...  :lol:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 16, 2016, 09:46:14 am
Page 30, damper.

Totally useless photo because it was not taken from where I asked for it to be taken from, but again, you are certainly free to spend 4 more hours trying to dial your timing in instead of four minutes, and trying to see your current un-seeable timing pointer if that's what you prefer.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 16, 2016, 10:10:26 am
Totally useless photo because it was not taken from where I asked for it to be taken from, but again, you are certainly free to spend 4 more hours trying to dial your timing in instead of four minutes, and trying to see your current un-seeable timing pointer if that's what you prefer.  :thumb:

I'll get some photos shortly..

Sound like my wife this morning. Nag, nag, nag...  :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 16, 2016, 10:19:34 am
.
I am wanting to get some gaskets that have a small water port that matches the head water port fairly closely because they will give you more sealing area so less chance of a leak . Others can see the list also now and offer suggestions.

Pro Port heads . Intake runner 2.00 x 1.125 . Recommended gasket fel pro 1262

(http://dragpartsusa.com/images/F60914108.jpg)


GASKETS

original and current gaskets are fel pro 1262

2.100 x 1.28 x .060

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-1262/overview/make/ford (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-1262/overview/make/ford)

(http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/xlarge/FEL-1262_xl.jpg?rep=False)

Cometic 2.120 X 1.280 X .060 w small water ports aramid fiber . hey aso make hese .094" thick p/n C5652-094

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cgt-c5652-060/overview/make/ford (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cgt-c5652-060/overview/make/ford)

(http://dmpfasteners.com/shop/bmz_cache/0/0305be5be69057143227de13ac1a5ccf.image.640x480.JPG)

Trick Flow 2.250 x 1.40 x .060

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-2855/overview/make/ford (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-2855/overview/make/ford)

(http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/xlarge/TFS-2855_SN_xl.jpg?rep=False)


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-52400922/overview/make/ford (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-52400922/overview/make/ford)

(http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/xlarge/tfs-52400922_xl.jpg?rep=False)



Trick Flow 2.250 x 1.40 x .061

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-52400921/overview/make/ford (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-52400921/overview/make/ford)

(http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/xlarge/tfs-52400922_xl.jpg?rep=False)


Mr Gasket standard 2.130 x 1.200 x .125

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mrg-213/overview/make/ford (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mrg-213/overview/make/ford)

(http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/mrg-213_w.jpg?rep=False)


Mr Gasket standard 2.130 x 1.200 x .063

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mrg-203g/overview/make/ford (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mrg-203g/overview/make/ford)

(http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/mrg-203g_w.jpg?rep=False)


Mr Gasket ultra seal 2.130 1.200 Has non stick coating so silicone may not adhere.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mrg-5831/overview/make/ford (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mrg-5831/overview/make/ford)

(http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/xlarge/mrg-5831_xl.jpg?rep=False)


Accuseal SCE 2.140 x 1.300 x .062

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sce-136102/overview/make/ford (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sce-136102/overview/make/ford)

(http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/sce-136102_w.jpg?rep=False)


Accuseal SCE 2.140 x 1.300 x .062 . Has single side silicone bead.

Oz Ebay

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SCE-Gaskets-Gasket-Manifold-Intake-AccuSeal-Pro-Ford-Small-Block-Set-236102-/390980019884 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SCE-Gaskets-Gasket-Manifold-Intake-AccuSeal-Pro-Ford-Small-Block-Set-236102-/390980019884)

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sce-236102/overview/make/mercury (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sce-236102/overview/make/mercury)

(http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/sce-236102_w.jpg?rep=False)
.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 17, 2016, 09:56:36 am
.
INTAKE INSTALLATION

This has been reposted on the next page.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on April 17, 2016, 10:05:38 am
I use one sealer on intakes, Black Max, around the water jackets, both sides and at each end valley. FE engine I glue the ports as well
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 17, 2016, 11:38:40 am
I use one sealer on intakes, Black Max, around the water jackets, both sides and at each end valley. FE engine I glue the ports as well

Shaun are you referring to the stuff in the link below?

http://www.na.henkel-adhesives.com/adhesives/product-search-1554.htm?nodeid=8797890609153 (http://www.na.henkel-adhesives.com/adhesives/product-search-1554.htm?nodeid=8797890609153)

or this?

http://www.na.henkel-adhesives.com/adhesives/product-search-1554.htm?nodeid=8797922361345 (http://www.na.henkel-adhesives.com/adhesives/product-search-1554.htm?nodeid=8797922361345)

Loc-Tite makes a silicone that is identical to the Permatex Ultra Black but I forgot the name and haven't looked it up yet, however I think it is the 598 above . The Ultra Grey is slightly thicker than the Ultra black and is OEM approved for Toyota so it is likely similar if not the same as their 103 FIPG sealer but at a lower cost.

We can't determine for certain why it didn't seal because he removed the gaskets so there was nothing to take photos of, however, he did find some clear silicone where the head meets the block which is where it was leaking oil so he missed that when he cleaned it because it was clear, but the water leak was pretty massive so I was hoping to get some photos to try and see what happened there . The Fel-Pro gaskets do have a habbit of distorting under pressure so it may be that they distorted around the water jacket area which is an easy fix, but without any photos there is no way to tell.
.


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: shaunp on April 17, 2016, 08:00:01 pm
My bad I meant Ultra Black, I use it for everything pretty much. I also some times use Yammy Bond , now known as 3 Bond some times, they have an orange one I use solid aneiled copper head gaskets on o ringed blocks.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 18, 2016, 01:57:42 am
My bad I meant Ultra Black, I use it for everything pretty much. I also some times use Yammy Bond , now known as 3 Bond some times, they have an orange one I use solid aneiled copper head gaskets on o ringed blocks.

Ok, thanks . Yeah I old him to use Ultra Black but I don't know if he did, but I also mentioned that intakes can be hard to seal even for experienced people.

Do you know where he can get the SCE Accuseal Pro or Mr gasket standard or Cometic or Trick Flow premium gaskets in OZ? . I really, don't want him to use the Fel-Pro 1262's again, and understandably, he wants to get them right away.

It would be nice if he lived close to you or GLENN or boofhead and could bribe one of you guys with some fine, cold, tasty FOSTERS LAGER to come give him a hand with this part. :lmao:




Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 18, 2016, 07:53:53 am
Barnett .Shaun , Boofhead and myself are very lucky we live 2000 Klms /1200 miles away thank you   :grin: .  He is lucky you  are here to help him and only live around  13,000 klms/ 8,000 miles away  :lmao: .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 18, 2016, 09:01:11 am
Barnett .Shaun , Boofhead and myself are very lucky we live 2000 Klms /1200 miles away thank you   :grin:

Yeah, I would definitely be right over if I lived nearby...NOT!  :bolt: 

 
He is lucky you  are here to help him and only live around  13,000 klms/ 8,000 miles away  :lmao: .

The only reason I'm helping him is cuz you guys are too lazy to type more than a sentence or two . Or maybe you're just afraid that all that typing might bruise your typing finger and you won't be able to go Lawn Bowling.  :lmao:

ummm...maybe we should have written our names on the balls.  :lmao:

(http://wisequacks.org/wp2/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/lawnbowling_group08.jpg)


Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 18, 2016, 09:37:39 am
Why should we type all that information when we have you to do it  :grin:  And yes  I have  to look after my fingers and don't want to bruise them  :thumb:  and yes we lawn bowlers are a SPECIAL  bunch of grannies  and gentleman .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 18, 2016, 09:41:35 am
And by the way , we here in Australia like to sleep at night for 7-8 hrs per night . Not like someone we know on here,  BARNETT .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 18, 2016, 10:02:37 am
.
OMG...he is going to use the dreaded Fel-Pro 1262 gaskets again.  :thud:

I guess if at first you don't succeed...fail, fail again. :bolt:

He is having them overnighted so they should be there by Friday.  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 18, 2016, 11:20:28 am
.
Ok happy campers . I told him to order Fel-Pro 1262S3 and 1262R so lets see what happens.

For those of you whom are not engine builders, below is what happens with the Fel-Pro non steel core print o seal gaskets on occasion . No idea if this happened to his but it definitely won't with these others.

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/kwf4112/FFR%20Cobra/P1010749.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 18, 2016, 02:23:41 pm
Barnett .Shaun , Boofhead and myself are very lucky we live 2000 Klms /1200 miles away thank you   :grin: .  He is lucky you  are here to help him and only live around  13,000 klms/ 8,000 miles away  :lmao: .


Jetstar  :thumb:

Brisbane, straight into Williamtown.

1/2 hr to my place, install intake, back in Brisvegas in a few hours...

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 18, 2016, 03:22:34 pm

Jetstar  :thumb:

Brisbane, straight into Williamtown.

1/2 hr to my place, install intake, back in Brisvegas in a few hours...

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

And I thought you liked these guys.

JETSTAR ACCIDENT REPORTS

https://www.aeroinside.com/incidents/airline/jetstar (https://www.aeroinside.com/incidents/airline/jetstar)

Smoke in the cabin.

Can't maintain altitude.

Engine problem.

Hydraulic failure.

Oven catches on fire.

Oil leak forcing emergency landing.

Etc...
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 18, 2016, 03:50:49 pm
And I thought you liked these guys.

JETSTAR ACCIDENT REPORTS

https://www.aeroinside.com/incidents/airline/jetstar (https://www.aeroinside.com/incidents/airline/jetstar)

Smoke in the cabin.

Can't maintain altitude.

Engine problem.

Hydraulic failure.

Oven catches on fire.

Oil leak forcing emergency landing.

Etc...
.


I think i worked on a few of those planes....  :thumb:  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 18, 2016, 04:10:17 pm

I think i worked on a few of those planes....  :thumb:  :lmao:

Well on the positive side, they all had to land before the started leaking water so you did a much better job on those.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 19, 2016, 07:06:15 am
.

FITZY READ THIS CAREFULLY AND ASK ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE BEFORE YOU BEGIN
 

INTAKE INSTALLATION USING FEL-PRO 1262S3 GASKETS


BOLTS

I use grade 8 bolts, grade 8 flat washers and grade 8 lock washers.

If you want it fancy looking, buy ARP bolts or chrome, black or stainless allen/socket head bolts and AN style flat washers.


SEALER TYPE

Permatex Ultra Grey High Torque Gasket Maker and make sure you buy enough . Small bottle of flammable contact cement/glue.


CLEANING

Sealers will not stick to oil or dirt . This includes the oil from your hands . Improperly cleaned surfaces are the number 1 cause of intakes leaking.

Clean the BEJESUS out of all the sealing surfaces with paper towels and flammable brake cleaner or lacquer thinner . Also Clean the outside and inside of the block for 1" down from the top of the end seal area . This will allow the sealer to stick to these areas when it gets smushed out by the pressure from the intake.

ALL colored spots must be removed from the aluminum because they are old sealer . Use a brass or steel toothbrush to do that with . You can and maybe should brush all the sealing surface due to the builder using clear silicone which can be hard to see.

The brushing might create some dust or some of the wires on the brush may fall off during brushing, therefore, place a couple sheets of regular newspaper in the intake valley and push the edges under the cylinder head . Wad up a piece of paper towel and shove it into the intake ports . Vacuum the ports BEFORE removing the paper towel . Fold the edges of the newspaper inward before removing it to prevent and debris it caught from falling into the valley.

Clean the old sealer out from between the head and the block . You might need to use maybe a .020" thick feeler gauge to get between there . Try to locate the head gasket hiding in there . It may have some sealer that needs to be removed so when you squeeze some sealer between the head and the block, it should flow in far enough to contact the head gasket . If it does not, you will have a leak.

Use the long nozzle on a can of flammable brake cleaner to spray between the head and the block to try and remove any oil . See if you can wrap a piece of paper towel around the .020" feeler gauge and ut some cleaner on it then push it into that gap to clean it better.

Use the brush on the intake manifold also.

After all the above is done, clean the bejesus out of it all with paper towels and cleaner again.


TEST FITTING GASKETS TO HEADS

Lay the gaskets on the heads with the pre-made silicone bead facing the intake manifold, not the head . The straight edge of the gasket goes up. towards the valve cover.

Loosely install the 4 studs in each corner of the heads.

The cut out for the water ports is larger than the ports so use a pointed felt pen and outline the gasket hole onto the head.

Take a photo of one of the gaskets laying on the head.

Remove the 4 studs in each corner of the heads.

Hold one gasket with the pre-made silicone bead side on the intake manifolds to make sure the cut outs for the water ports do not extend beyond the intake which would cause a leak.


SEALING GASKETS TO HEADS

Do one head at a time.

Apply around around a 12 mm wide coating of contact glue around the two inner intake ports on only ONE of the heads .

Apply a 12 mm wide coat of glue on the side of the outer ports that face the inner ports.

Apply glue to the top and bottom of the outer ports but do NOT extend it all the way to where the radius is on the ports . In other words, only put in on 3/4 of the port . This means you are only applying sealer 3/4 of the way around the port . Go up to, but not beyond, any felt pen lines around the ports . The reason for this is because there will be silicone sealer on the other side of these ports around the water jacket, and you do not want to put silicone sealer over contact glue because it won't stick well.

Apply glue in the same location on the side of the gasket that will face the head.

Put a 2 mm thick by 6 mm wide layer of Permatex around the water port on the same head . This can be done by putting around a 3 mm wide bead around 3 mm to the outside of the felt pen line around the port, then flattening it out slightly with your finger . You can also remove the plastic nozzle from the tube it you are using it then just place the nozzle close to the head and squeeze it out as you go along . The sealer will not be smooth but as long as there are no super thin or super thick spots it will be fine.

You can also use the plastic nozzle and put around a 3 mm wide bead around 3 mm to the outside of the port or any felt pen line round it . The bead will flatten out once the intake is installed.

Locate the head gasket hiding between the head and the block and squeeze some sealer into the gap so the sealer will seal against the end of the gasket . Make a seal around 30 mm long to try to insure it won't leak there.

Do NOT put silicone on the gasket on the side that goes to the head.

Lightly lay the gasket on the head in the proper location . If the gasket is not in exactly the right location, lift it off then re-position it, do NOT try to slide it.

Once properly positioned, press down on the inner intake ports only to make them stick to the head . Do NOT press on the water port.

Repeat the exact same process on the other head and gasket as quickly as you can.

With the gaskets installed, put a thin layer of Permatex around the water and intake ports on the side of the gasket that faces the intake.


SEALING THE ENDS OF THE INTAKE

Put a 6 mm tall bead of Permatex on the rear of the block where the cork end seals would normally go . Extend it up onto the intake gasket by around 3 mm . See photo below.

Do the same to the front.

Put around a 2 mm thick bead on the intake where the cork seals would go . The purpose for this is to insure there is enough silicone to seal because if you try to make a bead much higher on the block than 6 mm, it may just flatten out under its own weight which might leave a gap, and as you now know, gaps in the silicone are "undesireable".   :bolt:


INSTALLING INTAKE

Install the 4 studs in each corner of the heads.

Ok, here comes the "fun" part . Install your hernia belt then simply GENTLY install the intake EVENLY . Do NOT lift it up after it is down.


INSTALLING INTAKE BOLTS

Use the bolt tightening sequence shown below for every step and use the torque wrench on the bolts you can get to..

Install the bolts by a few threads.

Install the four nuts on the center studs.

Tighten the fasteners to 10 lbs . When you get to a nut, just make it barely slightly tight/snug . Do not tighten the crap out of it. 

After you reach the last fastener, start at the beginning of the sequence again and tighten to 16 lbs . When you get to a nut, just make it barely slightly tight/snug . Do not tighten the crap out of it . When you start this second tightening process, you will notice that the first few bolts are fairly loose . Do NOT worry bout it. 

After you reach the last fastener, start at the beginning of the sequence again and tighten to 22 lbs . When you get to a nut, make it fairly tight this time but don't tighten the crap out of it.

After you reach the last fastener, start at the beginning of the sequence again and tighten to 22 lbs . When you get to a nut, make it fairly tight this time but don't tighten the crap out of it.

Let dry for at least 12 hours before use and before adding coolant . If you do not let it dry this long, you may be very, very, displeased at the results.  :therethere:

After the engine has run for a total of 30 minutes [if it ever does], tighten the fasteners to 22 lbs again because they are sometimes slightly loose after the first heat cycle . When you get to a nut, make it fairly tight this time but don't tighten the crap out of it . You will not have to tighten them again...that is unless you have to do this a THIRD time.  :lmao:

This is about what the bead on the ends of the block should look like . Also notice how it goes onto the intake gasket a little.

(http://st.lowrider.com/uploads/sites/7/2014/12/edelbrock-intake-manifold-install-permatec-black-silicone-06.jpg)


(http://www.mrwrench.com/images/fordv8intake2.jpg)






Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 19, 2016, 01:51:41 pm
.
So after they deliver the gaskets "overnight" on Friday that you ordered yesterday...  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 19, 2016, 03:02:37 pm
.
So after they deliver the gaskets "overnight" on Friday that you ordered yesterday...  :lmao:

 :lmao:

Gaskets just arrived, so bang that up ya..  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 19, 2016, 04:14:43 pm
:lmao:

Gaskets just arrived, so bang that up ya..  :thumb:

Sorry, won't fit, got somethin up there already.  :thumb:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 19, 2016, 04:16:28 pm
.
Are one of the kids around that could read the instructions for ya?  :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 19, 2016, 04:17:22 pm
.
...or better yet...are one of the kids around that can install the intake for ya?

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 19, 2016, 04:35:56 pm
.
 :lmao:       :lmao:          :lmao:                               
 :lmao:       :lmao:       
 :lmao::lmao::lmao:         :lmao:
 :lmao:       :lmao:          :lmao:
 :lmao:       :lmao:          :lmao:
 :lmao:       :lmao:          :lmao:
 

 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 19, 2016, 06:04:48 pm
 :lmao: :lmao:


Have a look at ya..

Just amusing yourself, absolute man child...  :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 19, 2016, 06:07:28 pm
Have a look at ya..

Just amusing yourself, absolute man child...  :lmao: :lmao:

Thats cuz unlike "some" people, I ain't got ta do my intake gasket for the second time so I have a bit of spare time on my hands.  :lmao:
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 19, 2016, 09:42:04 pm
Gee page 51  :thud:  :cool:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 20, 2016, 12:17:32 am
Gee page 51  :thud:  :cool:

We were waitin fur your new page count.  :lmao:

Since Fitzy didn't report back in last night, I'm guessin the install didn't go so well, but they say that the third tine is a charm.  :thumb:
Perhaps he should have bought TWO sets of gaskets  :thud:

 
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 20, 2016, 10:31:05 am
uh oh....Fitzy is MIA.  :shrug:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 20, 2016, 11:49:37 am
uh oh....Fitzy is MIA.  :shrug:

Fear not, just had a few things on..

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 20, 2016, 12:05:41 pm
Pants I hope  :grin:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 20, 2016, 12:13:22 pm
Pants I hope  :grin:

I think he meant these.

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRvBcSkZGazyOY87EZBheUBqyDJiQpHcm1vV8Lrh3UbnBYmGuUf)

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 20, 2016, 12:33:52 pm
Well, this thread just hit rock bottom....  :sick:

Last weeks photo shoot Barn ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 20, 2016, 12:53:51 pm
Well, this thread just hit rock bottom....  :sick:

Last weeks photo shoot Barn ?

Yes, but this is the one of me.

(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRTwr20_GqxlOGs2rxsxztwO6rJQWQfIPlo6bislB1227Y1Me5B)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 20, 2016, 01:07:23 pm
.
REMOVE ALL THIS DARK GREY CRAP WITH THE WIRE BRUSH . LOOKS LIKE THERE MIGHT BE SOME ON THE BLOCK NEXT TO THE HEAD TOO.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1502/26346023962_c9c8b85b84_k.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 20, 2016, 01:12:26 pm
.
Did that photo show up ?

Why yes it did, and it looks like CRAP . You clean like a pansy . I'm guessing that your wife doesn't let you do the dishes.

GET RID OF THE DARK GREY IN THE LEFT WATER PORT AND TOP OF BLOCK NEXT TO HEAD ALSO OR YOU MAY HAVE A LEAK.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1657/26441095372_a2ef5b093f_k.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 20, 2016, 01:17:32 pm
.
WIRE BRUSH THE F'N CRAP OUT OF EVER SINGLE SURFACE AFTER PUTTING PAPER IN VALLEY AND INTAKE PORTS.

BE CAREFUL NOT TO TEAR THE END OF THE HEAD GASKETS UP.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 20, 2016, 01:58:35 pm
I did, and just did it again...

It's stains on the alloy..
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 20, 2016, 02:27:17 pm
I did, and just did it again...

It's stains on the alloy..

ok, xlnt...just remember, cleanliness is next to godliness.  :thumb:

how about on the block by the head where the silicone bead will go
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 20, 2016, 02:59:27 pm
ok, xlnt...just remember, cleanliness is next to godliness.  :thumb:

how about on the block by the head where the silicone bead will go

Yeah i scrubbed the sh1t out of it but i'm gonna have to leave it till tomorrow now..

Dentist appointment..  :sick: :cry:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 21, 2016, 08:56:32 am
What page 52 and the bloody thing so doesn't go  :lmao:  :cry:   :cool:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 21, 2016, 09:00:11 am
What page 52 and the bloody thing so doesn't go  :lmao:  :cry:   :cool:

Well, it was going...

Tomorrow Glenn  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 21, 2016, 09:04:53 am
What just going or going or  :burnout:   And tomorrow I have herd that before ,on about page 15  I think  :lmao:  . Also you will have to get it going because I can't count past 60 .
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 21, 2016, 09:21:01 am
Well, it was going...

I wonder if part of the rough idle was caused by the water being injected directly into the intake ports.  :lmao:

Perhaps one of these will help get the water out of the cylinders.  :thumb:

..................(http://www.cleaningshop.com.au/contents/media/extra_long_cotton_mop_2.jpg)
.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 21, 2016, 12:01:33 pm
Intake done...

Let's join hands and pray..

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1566/26550985485_7b490415bc.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GsdJXP) (https://flic.kr/p/GsdJXP) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/139742767@N02/)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 21, 2016, 12:50:13 pm
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You did get my last message telling you to put contact cement on both sides of the gasket instead of just one didn't you?

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 21, 2016, 01:55:10 pm
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You did get my last message telling you to put contact cement on both sides of the gasket instead of just one didn't you?


Say what ?
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 21, 2016, 01:55:44 pm

Say what ?

 :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 21, 2016, 04:52:13 pm
Hey Fitzy....you can just get a really small felt pen and write "ARP" on the top of that one odd grade 3 bolt.  :lmao:

 
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 21, 2016, 09:30:01 pm
Hey Fitzy....you can just get a really small felt pen and write "ARP" on the top of that one odd grade 3 bolt.  :lmao:

Don't fkn start, it's irritating me already..   :flaming:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 22, 2016, 06:15:52 am
Don't fkn start, it's irritating me already..   :flaming:

Well, then to be helpful might I suggest that you start another thread that says "Does anyone have a spare ARP intake bolt since they only sell them in sets?"?  :bolt:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 22, 2016, 06:17:30 am
What page 52 and the bloody thing so doesn't go  :lmao:  :cry:   :cool:

Hey GLENN....how many pages does it take to degree a cam?

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 22, 2016, 06:58:01 am
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Hey Fitzy, just for reference, here's a video of how your engine should sound when it doesn't have "coolant injection".  :bolt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rny2oXogM4&list=PLeUPeJzxyXwRW-cD-WasDeeqSsQFdEUUr (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rny2oXogM4&list=PLeUPeJzxyXwRW-cD-WasDeeqSsQFdEUUr)
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 22, 2016, 09:44:38 am
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Ok,

1. Fill radiator with whatever you last used to 1" below the top.

2. Remove all the spark plugs.

3. Turn the engine over with the key for 10 seconds . Do not give it any gas.

4. Inspect the plug gap to mke sure none have closed.

5. If the plugs look damp, it is from antifreeze . Spray flammable brake cleaner on dip them in lacquer thinner etc.

6. Reinstall plugs and start normally . Take a video if you want.

7. If it starts, let it run for 60 seconds to get it a little warm.

8. If it idles after 60 seconds, turn it off.

9. Loosen distributor hold down bolt 1/8th turn.

10. Restart engine and let it idle.

11. Turn the distributor clockwise just a LITTLE . If you hear a slight increase in rpm and it does not idle any worse, this is the right direction.

12. If the rpm went up and it idles the same or smoother, turn it clockwise a little more . If it idles rougher, this is too much.

13. If the rpm rpm went up with step 12 and it idles the same or smoother, leave it there ad turn it off then tighten the dist bolt.

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 23, 2016, 06:08:49 am
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TIMING POINTER

If you can install the pointer mounting screw/bolt without removing the lower rad hose, then leave it on.

There are two ways to make this . The first option might be slightly hard to see but you will see it and it will work.


OPTION 1

1. take a piece of thin coat hanger or solid copper wire etc and cut it around 6 inches long.

2. take some needle nose pliers and make the smallest loop you possibly can in one end.

3. cut it so it is  10 mm to 11 mm  long from the center of the hole to the very tip of the wire.

4. paint only around 2 mm of the tip with white paint or liquid white out.

5. put a flat washer in the bolt or screw and then the pointer then screw this into the only hole it will fit into with the end of the pointer to the right of the bolt hole as you face the front of the engine.

6. place it so the tip is only around 3 mm above the damper . no it will not move and hit the damper.
 
6. tighten the screw moderately tight . if the screw bottoms out, simply add a couple washers.


OPTION 2

1. take a piece of thin coat hanger or solid copper wire etc and cut it around 6 inches long.

2. take some needle nose pliers and make the smallest loop you possibly can in one end.

3. cut it so it is  22 mm long from the center of the hole to the very tip of the wire.

4. measure 10 mm to 11 mm from the center of the hole and put a mark there.

5. if you have a vice, clamp the end pith the loop into a vice so that the mark is even with the top of the jaws . if you dont have one, grab it with vice grips etc at the mark.

6. hammer the wire over so it is 90 degrees to the vice or vice grips.

7. remove the wire and bend it just a tiny, tiny, tiny bit more so it is maybe 95 degrees.

5. put a flat washer in the bolt or screw and then the pointer then screw this into the only hole it will fit into with the end of the pointer to the right of the bolt hole as you face the front of the engine.

6. place it so the tip is only around 3 mm above the damper . no it will not move and hit the damper.

7. tighten the screw moderately tight .  if the screw bottoms out, simply add a couple washers.

8. after the screw is tight, you will see that the end of the pointer is not exactly 90 degrees to the damper . simply take some needle nose pliers and grab the wire next to the mounting pad and bend it until the tip is 90 degrees . do NOT bend the tip . AFTER you do this you will see exactly why i had you do it this way and you wont have 20 questions to ask me.

 
DAMPER MARKS

If you left the rad hose on, simply rotate the engine so you can get to the damper marks to paint them . There may be good access from under the car.

1. Put white out on the 14 degree btdc mark and extend the color beyond the end of the line to the end of the damper, then put a 0 to the right of it as you face the engine . This way you will be able to see it AND know what it represents.

2. Make the same line on the 24 degree btdc  mark and put one SMALL dot or the number 1 or 10 immediately to the right of it.

3. Do the same thing at 34 but use 2 dots running parallel to the line or the number 2 or 20.

4. Do the same at 44 but use 3 dots parallel to the line or the number 3 or 30.

5. Do the same thing at 54 but use 4 dots parallel to the line or the number 4 or 40.

Take a photo and post it before you go any further.


This is what OPTION 2 pointer should look like except the whole thing should not be white, just the part that comes over the damper should be white.

(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/6QkAAOSw~oFXGqRE/s-l1600.jpg)

(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/dd4AAOSwiYFXGqRK/s-l1600.jpg)


This is what the line on the distributor should look like.

Where is the distributor hold down clamp?

(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/OTIAAOSwlfxXGqRN/s-l1600.jpg)


Distributor hold down clamp.

(http://www.carid.com/images/mr-gasket/ignition-systems/9860.jpg)





Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 23, 2016, 11:02:08 am
That is whats always been on there, the bolt with the lock washer.

Never really took notice to be honest.


I'll sort a proper clamp
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 23, 2016, 11:06:53 am
That is whats always been on there, the bolt with the lock washer.

Never really took notice to be honest.

I'll sort a proper clamp

xlnt idea.

im afraid to see any more photos.

are you going to make it run today?

.
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 23, 2016, 11:08:18 am
xlnt idea.

im afraid to see any more photos.

are you going to make it run today?

.

Surely nothing suprises you with what they did anymore ?

That's the plan..
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 23, 2016, 11:39:35 am
Surely nothing suprises you with what they did anymore ?

ummm, sadly i keep mistakenly holding out hope that at least one fking thing on it will be right.

i know you were joking when you said they may have simply written the word BAER on the calipers but now im beginning to be a bit more suspicious about that too.

hey....look on the bright side, your $3,000.00 carbs look nice and seem to work fine...well that is from what i could tell for the 16 seconds i have heard it run so far.   :lmao:

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 23, 2016, 02:37:59 pm
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We are now doing the timing [for the last 3 friggen hours for the second time] . Using the previous marks we made on the damper to line it up with [don't ask] . Now waiting for results.

. . . . (http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu164/marysurratt/Decorated%20images/felix_pacing.gif~original)




Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 23, 2016, 03:54:44 pm
 :flaming:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 23, 2016, 04:09:38 pm
:flaming:

hey, you should be happy . i watched the video and it now runs on 3 cylinders . thats 3 more than it ran on last week when it was hurling water into the block and intake, so congratulations on a fine job.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: Fitzy1980 on April 23, 2016, 04:55:28 pm
hey, you should be happy . i watched the video and it now runs on 3 cylinders . thats 3 more than it ran on last week when it was hurling water into the block and intake, so congratulations on a fine job.  :thumb:


3 ??

Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 23, 2016, 05:02:14 pm

3 ??

oops...did i forget to mention that?   :lmao:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: barnett468 on April 24, 2016, 06:49:56 am
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Ok, here's a pop quiz and the winner gets a slab of cold, tasty, Fosters Lager.  :thumb:

How many days does it take to time a car with a timing light and marks on the damper?   :bolt:
Title: Re: Do you have to degree a new cam ?
Post by: GLENN 70 on April 24, 2016, 08:51:21 am
That's easy between 3 to 5 days  depending how smart you are.  :lmao:  And page 53&n