Mustang Owners Club Australia Forum
Technical & General Discussion Area => Technical - General => Topic started by: Speed Demon on February 05, 2015, 06:06:00 pm
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Just wanting to understand the rating of a thermofan in regards to amps.
My current thermofan has a sticker on it which says its a 12V and 80Watt single 14inch thermo. Been looking at a few thermo's and been recommended one or two as well. How do I measure how much current my thermo pulls? Secondly if a 13 inch thermo pulls 23 amps with a shroud could this be considered a powerful unit? Checked out a 16 inch Davies Craig unit and these only pull about 19 amps. It would be surprising to me if a 13inch thermo was in fact more powerful than a 16inch Davies Craig.
After doing a test this morning on another sender, I have come to the conclusion that the current thermo is really borderline in bringing the temp down at all. Compared to my twin set on my Torana its a massive difference between the two.
This is the unit i'm looking at. It delivers 2150 cfm which is also more than the Davies Craig 16 inch.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Derale/259/16926/10002/-1 (http://www.jegs.com/i/Derale/259/16926/10002/-1)
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In very general terms the higher the Amp draw the more air the Fan moves. Use a amp meter inline to measure the Amp draw of the fan under load.
I have used a number of brands and Derale and Spal both have worked well for me. The fan you have linked to I have used in the past and worked fine. It does have a fairly high pitch sound when running though that is not uncommon. It is a smaller diameter than many hence need to run at a higher speed which equals noise. Make sure the wiring can handle the 25 Amp draw it requires. You can melt wire, fuses, fuse boxes/holders etc if not set up or wired correctly. If you can find an appropriate fan at the wreckers then you will save a few dollars.
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Thanks Boof.
If I do decide to get a fan from the wreckers it might be hard to find one that will suit a Mustang radiator, being they are an unusual size. None the less it doesn't hurt to give a few a ring and hopefully I can find one with a shroud. With the location of the trans cooler, it virtually sits right in front of my thermo which isn't ideal at all.
Obviously a 30 amp relay will be fine for a 23 amp draw. As for the fuses and wiring, i'll have to check out that stuff to see what its rated at.
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Best fan you will find is Ford territory single fan. (not the twin fan set up)
They work like a helicopter you can't hold them.
Must be genuine not the Chow copies.
Peter.
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Cheers Peter.
Do they have a shroud firstly? And will they fit on a Mustang radiator? You would have to think there would be a few available at wreckers. Do you know what sort of cfm and amp draw they deliver?
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Yes they have a shroud.
I have not fitted one to a mustang but I reckon they will be ok for size.
CFM... You cant hold them in you hands when operating = plenty.
Brushless motor... current draw means nothing.
Should be plenty at wreckers.
Peter.
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Sounds good.
I am sure I can dig up cfm on the net somewhere and hopefully measurements.
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Yes they have a shroud.
I have not fitted one to a mustang but I reckon they will be ok for size.
CFM... You cant hold them in you hands when operating = plenty.
Brushless motor... current draw means nothing.
Peter is spot on with that last statement. You'd expect a more powerful fan to pull more current but that may not always be the case. If you have a poorly designed fan with an inefficient motor, it'll pull plenty of current & give you stuff all cooling. Find the fan that shifts the most amount of air, that's more important.
Evan.
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I don't think there would be a much more inefficient thermo fan around than the one I have currently. I've got no doubt it's a cheap Chinese bit of junk.
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To roughly work out the current draw (amps), just divide the wattage by the voltage, so 80W/12v=6.66amps
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To roughly work out the current draw (amps), just divide the wattage by the voltage, so 80W/12v=6.66amps
Lol no wonder it struggles. What CFM do you think that equates to?
Is this the Territory fan that you guys are talking about?
http://iautostore.com.au/index.php/ford-bf-fg-falcon-fairmont-territory-sy2-single-thermo-radiator-fan-06-6cyl-v8.html (http://iautostore.com.au/index.php/ford-bf-fg-falcon-fairmont-territory-sy2-single-thermo-radiator-fan-06-6cyl-v8.html)
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Lol no wonder it struggles. What CFM do you think that equates to?
Is this the Territory fan that you guys are talking about?
http://iautostore.com.au/index.php/ford-bf-fg-falcon-fairmont-territory-sy2-single-thermo-radiator-fan-06-6cyl-v8.html (http://iautostore.com.au/index.php/ford-bf-fg-falcon-fairmont-territory-sy2-single-thermo-radiator-fan-06-6cyl-v8.html)
CFM = cubic feet per minute. You need an airflow meter to determine that.
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This is what I installed in my '66 Coupe
2 years ago
16" Chrome Thermatic Fan (BLACK BLADE) SHORT - Part No: 0190
specs are here:
http://www.daviescraig.com.au/Thermatic_Fans-DCSL16__CHROME__BLACK_BLADE__SHORT__12_VOLT___PART_No__0190-details.aspx (http://www.daviescraig.com.au/Thermatic_Fans-DCSL16__CHROME__BLACK_BLADE__SHORT__12_VOLT___PART_No__0190-details.aspx)
Moz
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I bet there's a good reason why Moz's Davies Craig fan is 3x the price of the other one.......
Evan.
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I bet there's a good reason why Moz's Davies Craig fan is 3x the price of the other one.......
Evan.
I dont think I need something much bigger than the one I have, but from what i've read, a 16inch fan cools a lot more than a 14inch.
I wonder what CFM that Davies Craig fan is because its pulls 19 amps, which is the same as the other Davies Craig 16 inch fan. I think the only difference is that one that Moz posted has a chrome grille. $135 extra for a chrome grille, we really do get ripped off here don't we.
I got a quote on the Deral fan from Jegs. They want to charge me $260 for postage, what a bleeping joke.
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Territory Fan.....
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I dont think I need something much bigger than the one I have, but from what i've read, a 16inch fan cools a lot more than a 14inch.
I wonder what CFM that Davies Craig fan is because its pulls 19 amps, which is the same as the other Davies Craig 16 inch fan. I think the only difference is that one that Moz posted has a chrome grille. $135 extra for a chrome grille, we really do get ripped off here don't we.
I got a quote on the Deral fan from Jegs. They want to charge me $260 for postage, what a bleeping joke.
I didn't pay that much, I think from memory it cost me $180 after the discounts my friend gave me who works at an Autospares place.
Moz
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these are good fans
http://www.vpw.com.au/Category/Index/511709 (http://www.vpw.com.au/Category/Index/511709)
the 14" has cfm of 1300 low and 1700 high speed 13.8/23 amps
the 17" has cfm of 1725 low and 2100 high speed 17/23.5 amps
I run a plain black davies craig fan
DC-0066 it has cfm of 2010 and 19amp draw. $181 at vpw
I have a custom width radiator which is about 1'5 inch wider than standared and the 16" fan fits with about 10mm to spare
and only has about 10mm clearance from the pulleys.
If i was to buy a new one i would go the hayden fan for better clearance.
oh and i have a strocked 347 with a bit over 400hp and dont have any cooling issues.
sits on about 84deg normally and about 88deg in 30deg plus days
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The Derale fans are good, but the cfm you quoted is probably free flow ie. no radiator infront of it
the davies craig fan is typical cfm, which is when mounted to a standard radiator.
some of the slimline fans probably like what you have say they have 2500 cfm but put a radiator in front of it and they drop to half that
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Like I said before. The Derale fan not only fits perfect out of the box. It preform's! Made in USA including a Bosch motor. It moves air and draws amps! 40 deg day in traffic no issues with my old 65. I was so impressed that I bought another for my other 65 I am currently building and also fitting a new copper 3 core radiator. It is a 13" fan but it does the job. Some people will try and tell you that a shroud does not make a great difference in performance but it does regardless of how some cars left the factory many years ago. Everything evolves for the better. It also has four relief vents, one in each corner. If you should decide to go this unit ditch the mounting ties that pass through the core and mount it from the radiator side mounts. Of course there are many other fan options. All the best with your decision. Cheers jim
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Like I said before. The Derale fan not only fits perfect out of the box. It preform's! Made in USA including a Bosch motor. It moves air and draws amps! 40 deg day in traffic no issues with my old 65. I was so impressed that I bought another for my other 65 I am currently building and also fitting a new copper 3 core radiator. It is a 13" fan but it does the job. Some people will try and tell you that a shroud does not make a great difference in performance but it does regardless of how some cars left the factory many years ago. Everything evolves for the better. It also has four relief vents, one in each corner. If you should decide to go this unit ditch the mounting ties that pass through the core and mount it from the radiator side mounts. Of course there are many other fan options. All the best with your decision. Cheers jim
:thumb: I did the same including the mounting approach.
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Like I said before. The Derale fan not only fits perfect out of the box. It preform's! Made in USA including a Bosch motor. It moves air and draws amps! 40 deg day in traffic no issues with my old 65. I was so impressed that I bought another for my other 65 I am currently building and also fitting a new copper 3 core radiator. It is a 13" fan but it does the job. Some people will try and tell you that a shroud does not make a great difference in performance but it does regardless of how some cars left the factory many years ago. Everything evolves for the better. It also has four relief vents, one in each corner. If you should decide to go this unit ditch the mounting ties that pass through the core and mount it from the radiator side mounts. Of course there are many other fan options. All the best with your decision. Cheers jim
Jim, I love this thermo as well but $260 for postage is a joke. If you don't mind me asking what did you pay for postage?
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I bought it from Jegs e bay store. It was roughly $230 AUD total to my door.
http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=400830504569&alt=web (http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=400830504569&alt=web)
If you try buy it direct from there web site the postage is crazy for some reason.
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Using ebay stores for Jegs an Summit can result in huge delivery charges saving on big items. Always worth trying to find the items on their ebay stores when it is large. Look at the above for the fan discussed. $44 to deliver. Good value.
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I bought it from Jegs e bay store. It was roughly $230 AUD total to my door.
http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=400830504569&alt=web (http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=400830504569&alt=web)
If you try buy it direct from there web site the postage is crazy for some reason.
Awesome thanks guys. Any problems with the standard Mustang wiring being able to cope with this fan?
Never mind. After checking my wiring its already been upgraded so it shouldn't be a problem.
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That sort of cash would buy you a really nice (tried & tested) mechanical fan & shroud. No wiring required & no need for a big ass alternator. Just sayin'.
Evan.
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Don't want a mechanical fan as they tend to put drag on the engine, and I need every ounce of power I can get because I dont have much :grin:
The Deral fan is bought and paid for, lucky because it was the last one on ebay.
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Electrical energy is not free,
You would be surprised how much horsepower is required to drive an alternator putting out 30 amps. (not far from a belt driven fan!!)
Big current draw fans don't save horsepower.
Brushless Territory fans don't use many amps = low horsepower to drive the alternator = fuel economy (that's why they use them)
Peter.
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Point taken.
Still an engine will have more HP without a mechanical fan than with, that's why I would rather stick with a thermo.
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I agree 100%
The choice of fan is the key.
Peter.
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Just looked up the Derale fan at Summit and according to their website this fan is a 2 speed fan, is that right guys?
Got any pics of how you mounted it guys?
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Just thought Id put my 2 cents in. I had a 17" thermo with a switch that measured temp, adjustable, kicked in blah blah and my mild 302 kept overheating. No shroud mind you, mechanics in the area said the thermos don't need one, I dont agree but that's what 2 of them said. I put a plastic flex fan with original shroud and my cooling issues ceased. Before anyone jumps in, yes the thermo was blowing the correct way. I also have a territory and tried fitting the single fan an didn't have clearance from the water pump on a 302 using a 3 core radiator in a 70 mustang. As for standard wiring, depends where you pull the power from, you may need a relay, my one had one and the fan worked as expected.
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It is a single speed fan. If your not sure go get the PDF instruction manual from the manufacturer. My old one is a single speed unit though accepting they could have changed the product - the PDF shows it is a single speed. Two wires only to the Fan motor equals single speed.
As far as photos - I would need to check to see if I still have some.
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Looks like your right Boof its a single speed fan, ad at summit must be wrong.
I'd appreciate a photo on how you guys installed this thermo fan? Just not sure what you mean by mounting it to the radiator side mounts?
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Took the car out today in 31C weather to confirm for me that this thermo is just not up to it. Driving around the streets, giving the car a bit of stick the engine got to around 95C even though the thermo was set at 90C. So if the weather gets hotter and i'm stuck in traffic looks like I could be in trouble. Good thing i've bought the higher power thermo, it should do the job.
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I agree 100%
The choice of fan is the key.
Peter.
Hi Peter, is the Territory fan fitted on the outside of the radiator pushing air through the radiator or on the inside pulling it through ? It sounds like the ideal fan !
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Looks like your right Boof its a single speed fan, ad at summit must be wrong.
I'd appreciate a photo on how you guys installed this thermo fan? Just not sure what you mean by mounting it to the radiator side mounts?
I just got this new 3 core made and the Derale mounted as pictured. Mounting position top and bottom. You could clip it to the side mount of your existing radiator. Fabricate some bracket's
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And
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Hi Peter, is the Territory fan fitted on the outside of the radiator pushing air through the radiator or on the inside pulling it through ? It sounds like the ideal fan !
It is mounted on the inside.
Try before you buy..Power one up and try to hold it!
Peter.
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I just got this new 3 core made and the Derale mounted as pictured. Mounting position top and bottom. You could clip it to the side mount of your existing radiator. Fabricate some bracket's
I've got bolt holes down the bottom of my radiator which are for auto cooling so it could be mounted to them but I don't have any up the top of my radiator. I'll wait until it comes in and try and work something out. Worst case scenario it will have to be mounted with the plastic zips.
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Hi Peter, is the Territory fan fitted on the outside of the radiator pushing air through the radiator or on the inside pulling it through ? It sounds like the ideal fan !
Was setup for pulling. There wasnt enough room from the water pump pulley to clear the motor for the territory fan. I have a chev (booo right?) with the Ford EL twin thermos as it had the same clearance issues with the waterpump pulley and the single fan motor, the twin el fans work awesome. Cools the car right down, chev isnt a grocery getter either.