1966 Mustang Hybrid - Installing Barra xr6t engine and 6speed auto

[crikeyrob]

Hi all,

This is my first post so hi to all. I was hoping I could tap into the wealth of experience/knowledge/ contacts out there and be pointed in the right direction. As stated in the heading I will be installing a late model XR6 turbo engine and auto transmission into a 66 coupe and will need some advice.

Does anyone know a good fabricator that could assist with the following? 

Modifying some engine mounts with custom brackets
Creating Gearbox adaption plate
Raising Tunnel 1-2 inches to fit gearbox
Welding in of subframe connectors (possible other strengthening)
Possible creation of full rollcage


I plan to have the project complete by the end of the year with the above modifications done in June.

Thanks in advance

[griff]

where are you based mate?

[GLENN 70]

It will go like hell but sound crap ,there is nothing like the sound of a v8 . How will under hood clearance go ,the late 6 turbo seems quite high . Sorry about the crape bit .   

[crikeyrob]

Hi Griff,
Sorry, i have to update my profile. I'm located in Melbourne.

Hi GLENN 70,
I agree it won't sound like a true Mustang but... I  also have a restored 66 coupe with a 302 and twin exhaust that'll scratch that itch if i need it. 

I put the deposit down on my project base car today (picture attached) and pick it up later in the week. It is planned to become my daily driver as well as the occasional track day etc. I'm upgrading all running gear (coil over struts, 4x discs, 3 link rear, power rack etc etc) so it should be a real treat to drive.

Here is a video I found of someone who has already used this engine in a mustang. A really nice build job in my opinion and some of you might even know him (or he could be on this forum)  1TUF65 turbo 6 Mustang - first time in the 9s
 

Rob

[GLENN 70]

I know it will fly ,it will be so much lighter than say a fg xr6t  around 600lbs lighter .The stock fg xr6t autos can run around 12.8 @110 mph ,as 2 of my friends took them to willowbank drag strip and both ran those times and mph . 600lbs means 6ths faster and 6 mph ,without touching the engine . Would be much easier to run a c4 and hi stall ,as a turbo does not need low diff gears so no need for a overdrive .

[crikeyrob]

I once had a late model XR6T and loved the ZF transmission. I have my mind set on having this configuration for fact that the car will also need to be a daily driver and be ready for the track also. It will be quick down the quarter, but not its sole aim.

Once built I plan to get it tuned and with the new exhaust, high flow fuel pump and injectors it should sit at 300rwkw.

Glenn, I think you meant 600kgs instead of lbs.... weight estimates are below.


* FG XR6 Turbo Falcon           1,733 kg (3,812lb)
* Mustang 66 Coupe             1200-1300kg (2,640 - 2,866lb)


I won't be modifying the engine apart from the minor changes listed above as I will be more than happy with this power to weight ratio. The mods will be focused on the suspension/brakes etc.

[wildplum]

I think you will also find that the orange turbo 6 'stang is also LPG powered

[Frank70]

Welcome aboard ! Sounds like a great project.

If you want a cage, then I think any place that does race cars will be able to do that and the other mods. If you watch Gasolene, Glenn had a roll cage put in his Falcon. Did nice work and Melb. Based I think. Check his website.

Cheers,
Frank.

[peter9231]

Fit it with the six speed, great transmission and for an every day driver it will be perfect.
They would be the most underrated powertrain package,
Forget the old saying "you can't beat cubic inches" These things murder cubic inches.
Well mannered great fuel economy and super reliable.
Peter.

[scedd1]

My Frankenstang has run an ED 4.0 & 4 speed auto for 10 years.
I can give you photos if you need.
The motor and box are coming out later this year so all the bits will be for sale for anyone who wants to do this conversion.
Watch your length in a 66.
I cant run a fan in the 68 as the motor is so long.
Steve

[GLENN 70]

yep 600 kg ,  66,mustangs are light and all this late model stuff is so heavy . Why i said a c4 an a hi stall is unless you get a fg turbo set up with the smaller turbo ,in a light mustang it will be harder to spool up . The fg turbos have tall diff gears good for the hwy ,but make the turbo spool up quicker and go .They make something like 550 nm of TQ ,std .

[Shermatt]

crikeyrob

If you want plug and play type of re-enforcement, you cant go past the TCP subframe set up

http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com/support/sub/PKG-SFC-01_AT.jpg

Im running it in K-OTIC and Im very impressed with how it holds the girl together and thats twin turbo and cracking 770Hp at the tread



As for engine mounts, Im running Ron morris adjustable mounts that helped in a big way to over come clearance issues, height and positioning the engine in the bay (forward or backward)

This is something that your going to have to fab up once you have fitted the engine and trans in place (test fit) as your obviously going to need a trans cross member made aswell. If your going to fab either of these up, make them both adjustable

If you need any pics or info on how I did mine and what I used to build it, there's a 7 page article coming out in Street Ford magazine in Australia in the next few days on page 42



I ran a Shelby R front nose cone and fitted the intercooler in the mouth and allthough some purists may hate it, it fits a treat and doesnt look to outa place. On the left hand side wheel arch (front) I fitted the trans cooler. Radiator I used a champion 67-69 3 core and cut away the indents/re-enforcements in the radiator support giving me another 3-4cm of room up front

I would test fit the lot before you start making mounts as scedd has posted his 6 in the picture above, you will be chasing room for cooling/fans

As for the build and engine combo......    AWESOME. Shall watch this build with anticipation

I talked about doing a similar build 3 years ago but using a RB26 Twin turbo so this is kinda cool for me to watch the build

Keep us posted and maybe start a build thread

Matt

[crikeyrob]

Thanks Matt, I will grab that issue and have a good read. I can't wait to get going with the build but the next two weeks will be all about finalizing plans and making the right decisions on the shopping list.


Just found this which helped me understand the Tcp subframe connector.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/1012phr_project_street_fighter_mustang/viewall.html

[nicco]

Wow Rob, you are not messing around:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1966-Ford-Mustang-Selling-All-Running-Gear-Engine-Auto-Diff-All-Susp-Etc-Etc-/181131251427?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D7298869409282901066%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D5%26sd%3D261205649419%26

Does this mean the build pics will start soon?

[Ash]

I think from memory that orange coupe has an AU motor, not the Barra.

I don't know what he has done with his shock towers either. But when I measured an AU motor and compared the engine bay 66 coupe, the BBM needed a further 40mm, off the top of my head, of clearance on the left tower. Perhaps the orange coupe is running an earlier intake, like the one that would be used in the engine bay that Scedd put a photo of.

I have a Territory driveline sitting on mey shed floor at the moment and later this week will have a BA driveline there as well once removed if you want any measurements. Intakes are the same on both but gearbox and sump clearances are different between the Territory and Falcon. All BA era's boxes I have at them moment too are 4 speeds, pretty sure the ZF is much bigger.

[crikeyrob]

Wow Rob, you are not messing around:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1966-Ford-Mustang-Selling-All-Running-Gear-Engine-Auto-Diff-All-Susp-Etc-Etc-/181131251427?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D7298869409282901066%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D5%26sd%3D261205649419%26

Does this mean the build pics will start soon?

Yes Nicco, as soon as i sell the running gear it's game on! :-)

[Ash]

Should have watched the video 

That orange coupe has an aftermarket intake but still has a tower chop. I think it was Atomic doing those intakes?

[Pedro]

I know it will fly ,it will be so much lighter than say a fg xr6t  around 600lbs lighter .The stock fg xr6t autos can run around 12.8 @110 mph ,as 2 of my friends took them to willowbank drag strip and both ran those times and mph . 600lbs means 6ths faster and 6 mph ,without touching the engine . Would be much easier to run a c4 and hi stall ,as a turbo does not need low diff gears so no need for a overdrive .

You're not kidding Glenn, as you know I had a BF F6 followed by an FG F6 and those turbo sixes get up and boogie. So in a light 66 Mustang body that thing will haul arse.

[GLENN 70]

I know pete ,an fg f6 is nearly as quick as my red 66 coupe . Looking forward to seeing this project done ,it will be one hell of a mustang .

[Shermatt]

Just a heads up ...the barra engine mount can be fit into the mustang but you can only use the top half of the mount and you will need to fabricate the lower section. A fella in NSW is currently building an XY with the barra engine and Ive been following his build on facebook to see how he over comes the little hick ups.

Theres a few pics of his build and how hes fitted the transmission and cut the tunnel...may help you/may not

It also has a write up on page 9 of the same Street Ford Magazine

You can order a copy through this mob
http://shop.magstore.com.au/Street-Fords-Performance-s/28.htm

or go to the website
http://www.streetfords.com.au/

Street ford mag posts alot of updates and shares peoples build on their facebook page aswell if you want to add yourself

https://www.facebook.com/groups/streetfords/?fref=ts

[Ash]

There are lots of guys now putting these into E-series Falcons. I think there may be a couple in AU's now too. I'd be looking over the several Ford forums for their write-ups about how they got around the electrics and other things.

I not long ago sold an IRS diff to a guy with an EF who had a Typhoon motor and T56 box in it. He was running the standard PCM where lots of others go to an aftermarket ECU. Not 100% sure how he did it as he wasn't using the BA/BF BEM.

Another issue I know of is speedo pick-up. The Barra runs off one of the ABS pick-ups so no more gear drive unit in the gearbox extension housing. The only BA that didn't do this was some of the XL utes that were not optioned with ABS. They did use the earlier gear drive unit in the extension. The models that didn't, had the hole in the extension housing blanked off so you would have to get around this. This would definitely be the case with the ZF trans as this was not an option in XL's which only came out with 4 speed auto's or T5Z's. I'm not familiar with the ZF trans so it may not even have a position location in the extension housing?

If you don't want to run A/C, get an idler pulley also from the early XL utes that were not optioned with A/C.

[jbrucem1]

very keen to watch this. pretty sure it will need tower mods as well as firewall from memory. The orange 6 is a melbourne car, it would be ideal to try and get in contact with the builder/owner and save the guess work

[Ash]

very keen to watch this. pretty sure it will need tower mods as well as firewall from memory. The orange 6 is a melbourne car, it would be ideal to try and get in contact with the builder/owner and save the guess work

Keep in mind though the guy with the orange coupe is not using a Barra engine. The Barra is a lot larger than the AU.

Also as the FG was mentioned, it is different again with a reverse sump and plastic intake. It also has more integrated electronics compared to the BA/BF. Such as the cluster is now in the security circuitry, to the point where they are coded with the cars VIN.

[jbrucem1]

Keep in mind though the guy with the orange coupe is not using a Barra engine. The Barra is a lot larger than the AU.

Also as the FG was mentioned, it is different again with a reverse sump and plastic intake. It also has more integrated electronics compared to the BA/BF. Such as the cluster is now in the security circuitry, to the point where they are coded with the cars VIN.

yeh thats right ash. the throttle is also electronic to throw more spanners into it

[crikeyrob]

The added size of the Barra will be the biggest drama. I have decided to go with a full double wishbone install with cross member and delete the shock towers. This will give me the width I need to use the stock intake and exhaust manifold/turbo... but it won't help much with the height.

I am about to order the running gear after finding a 2011 XR6T with 4,380kms. I will bundle with a BF engine sump, dipstick and oil pickup. If i run into issues with the sump shape I can then fit this to the FG engine etc.

The wiring will be challenging, however I have an auto electrician lined up who can wire it all to work as a stand alone system (with separate fuse box) as well as remove/flash to reset the security.

Good point about the electric throttle. I have no idea of how the fly by wire throttle system works. Any suggestions on how this will be incorporated? I will make sure i get the accelerator pedal and all other electrics etc.

I have a meeting with the fabricator of the orange mustang on Friday and will have a better idea of the total build then. Thanks again for all of your comments. If you find any threads that you think will help can you please post the link?

Cheers, Rob