Mustang Owners Club Australia Forum
Technical & General Discussion Area => General Chat Room => Topic started by: AussiePhil on July 20, 2022, 07:47:14 pm
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Hey all,
In a previous post Fred and got into a friendly discussion about Climate Change and Australias need to save the World!(my words)
But we live in a beautiful clean country now! (not so much 1890 to 1960’s)
We need to keep it that way!
We add little to Climate Change and the pollution in the world.
Climate Change in Australia is a Business and many benefit from it, Scarring the pants off old people and Brainwashing school chrildren.
Just go to YouTube and look up for yourself, China Pollution - India Pollution.
And just see how we are going! You will be shocked!
Cheers Phil.
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Hey all,
I hope you have taken the time to watch some of these videos.
Now it’s mandated that not fossil fuel powered cars will be made after 2035?
So we go home with our EV’s and plug them into our power grid Powered at night by Black Coal, Brown Coal, Hydro, Gas and a bit of wind! How is that Green!
Look at Australian Energy Market Watch AEMO web site, press on ENERGY MIX, then press where it says CURRENT and use the drop down box to see 24hr, 48hr, 3m and 12m see how Green Power is going at the Moment.
Do you think these poor struggling people in these third world countries will be able to afford these.
Once again we take the pain for the world pollution problems!
The best YouTube I’ve watched is by VICE, “THE DEVASTATING EFFECTS OF POLLUTION IN CHINA” 1&2.
Cheers Phil.
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https://www.worldometers.info/
interesting numbers on this website, they should be fairly accurate.
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Interesting topic.
from what I understand the carbon produced from the manufacture of typical new car is equivalent to carbon emitted in 10 years of tail pipe emissions.
If the life of a modern car is 20 years
I drive a 66 Austin Healey sprite in effect a recycled car so if I drive that car for 20 years and get 9lt per 100km then the new car owner would have to achieve 4.5lt per 100km to compete.
I'm an accidental environmentalist.
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Interesting topic.
from what I understand the carbon produced from the manufacture of typical new car is equivalent to carbon emitted in 10 years of tail pipe emissions.
If the life of a modern car is 20 years
I drive a 66 Austin Healey sprite in effect a recycled car so if I drive that car for 20 years and get 9lt per 100km then the new car owner would have to achieve 4.5lt per 100km to compete.
I'm an accidental environmentalist.
Hey Pete,
Well done, I’m glad your Austin Healey Sprite didn’t end up on the scrap heap like some would like.
I really hate the comparison CO2 per capita. The data out of some countries can not be Trusted.
CO2 per capita per square kilometre or mile is a better indicator of peoples living conditions.
For example, the three big powerhouses (production) and Australia!
8.10 tons of CO2 per capita where the population is 153 per square kilometre for China increasing CO2 emissions
1.92 tons of CO2 per capita where the population is 464 per square kilometre for India increasing CO2 emissions.
13.68 tons of CO2 per capita where the population is 36 per square kilometre for United States of America declining CO2 emissions.
15.48 tons of CO2 per capita where the population is 3.3 per square kilometre for Australia declining CO2 emissions.
IMO I think we may over represent our figures.
Out of these countries where would you rather live and which countries do you think are having a go at Emissions Control.
CO2 emissions per capita of China rose by 1.22 % from 8.10 tons of CO2 per capita in 2019 to 8.20 tons of CO2 per capita in 2020. Since the 0.38 % decline in 2016, CO2 emissions per capita leapt by 7.23 % in 2020.
Chinas population is in 48% of its land mass so the pollution effects on its people may be double what is reported!
In 2020, CO2 emissions per capita for India was 1.74 tons of CO2 per capita. Between 1971 and 2020, CO2 emissions per capita of India grew substantially from 0.38 to 1.74 tons of CO2 per capita rising at an increasing annual rate that reached a maximum of 9.83% in 2009 and then decreased to -6.91% in 2020.
Who is the biggest polluter per capita?
In recent years, China has accelerated past the United States and is the biggest polluter in absolute terms, (which is unsurprising given China's population and fast economic growth. India is also catching up.
A data can be Cherry Picked (Made to look better) to suit their cause!
It is very hard to get consistent data results across the internet!
Cheers Phil
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Hey All,
Thought I’d continue talk about Australia’s Energy production.
Currently there are 2077 absolutely massive wind turbines in operation in Australia.
And at this exact moment they are producing 2% to Australia’s Energy.
Well done!
Cheers Phil.
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Yeah we need more to help get off the fossil fuel train, but we will get there.
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Big problems with calculating and comparing pollution levels though. For example, Developed Countries off-shore its pollution by having stuff made in Developing Countries like China, India, Bangladesh, etc. So all the stuff we buy is manufactured elsewhere, but the pollution caused by the manufacturing processes is really 'ours'.
The figures would look different if we made everything we use here in Oz.
As for environmental poisoning of rivers, land and water tables in those countries, that's due to slack laws and corrupt governments. Though, we have PLENTY of similar comparison in Australia too.
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Hey all,
Must be windy at the moment, wind generation up to 4%.
Well done!
Cheers Phil.
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Here some other interesting numbers:
https://www.cleanenergycouncil.org.au/resources/resources-hub/clean-energy-australia-report
https://www.energy.gov.au/data/renewables
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Hey All,
Coal Powered Electricity Generators hate the uncertainty of solar and especially wind production. Up or none.
Like your car engine there is a sweet spot, say 90kph. 120kpm revving a little harder, poor fuel economy, more heat, more wear, tyres get hotter and wear more etc. 80kph you’ll have to labour it on hills or go back a gear, more wear on the clutch and throw out bearings, gearbox third gear etc. and poor fuel economy!
Running a steam powered turbine/generator is just the same. Pulverised mills, condenser pumps, induction and exhaust fans need to run harder, added fuel causes ash on the boiler tubes, goes on and on.
Running them out of this sweet spot is only deteriorating them faster.
Generators may have to pull a unit offline and slowly rotate the long shafts to keep then straight and then go back online later in the day, time and money consuming!
Coalmines may be told by the Generators, we have enough coal this week so you’ll have to stockpile your coal (expensive dropping it on the ground and then reloading it) or slow production, they do you know, contracts are on a monthly basis, detrimental to Longwall Faces, basically roof weight moving from behind the supports to in front of the supports causing Face, Maingate and Tailgate collapses. Very dangerous! To the point the total longwall face may have to be stopped, supported and a new face cut.
If that would happen, tens of millions of dollars would be lost and it’s an extremely dangerous occurrence.
No wonder Coalmines can’t get Capital Investment.
Just remember everything you have is because of coal, gas and petroleum.
Your Car body, Engine block, electrical, exhaust system, vinyl seats, wheels and tyres, dash pads and upholstery.
Your house, Bricks, concrete, steel girders, the roof, tin or tiles, copper wires, gutters and pvc pipes.
Don’t give up on Coal yet, Yet till we go nuclear, because Solar, Wind and Hydro won’t sustain us!
Cheers Phil.
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As with all technologies something better always comes along.
Winds of change are blowing.
Coal is dead.
Zero emission power generation is the present and the future.
Liberal government held us back for too long with the coal industry in their pockets.
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As with all technologies something better always comes along.
Winds of change are blowing.
Coal is dead.
Zero emission power generation is the present and the future.
Liberal government held us back for too long with the coal industry in their pockets.
Hey Brett,
Sorry to disagree with you.
I worked in both Electricity Generation and Coal Mining.
Technologies are far away to stand alone without Coal. (Not in our, our children’s or grandchildren’s lives), unless we build Nuclear Generators with 15,000Mwh capacity within the next ten years, that is impossible.
Look at the AEMO web site you’ll see the results, go to fuel mix, Current, 24Hr, 48Hr, 3 Months and 12 Months.
And then think how little renewables contribute and remember Black and Brown Coal and Gas production is strangled and limited to make up the deficit of what we need. They could happily produce much more, but renewables are flat out producing what they do.
Liberal government have never been in the coal industries pocket, it’s totally reverse, Labour started as the workers Party!
Without coal we wouldn’t have had the Industrial Revolution.
A saying used by Coal miners for at least one hundred years is “Coal is King”
My Great Grandfather was brought out for the UK in 1878 to help set up State Owned Coal Mining.
My Great Grandfather, Grandfather and my Father all worked at the same Pit.
It supplied controlled price coal to the Railways, Steel and Copper production and household electricity.
Without coal you would not now have the technologies to go to the next step, mainly Nuclear with a mix of pretend power production (Wind and Solar).
I’m happy to continue our friendly different banter.
Cheers Phil.
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Yeah I thought you might of worked in the coal industry.
And of course you have a lot of knowledge on the generating industry and how the current system operates.
I admit that we are grounded in a coal based generating environment currently and that there is going to have to be a generational shift in thinking to advance our options in generating power without producing C02.
To not be forward thinking though isn’t an option and ridiculing small increases in cleanly generated electricity when that small number already has had an effect of reduced carbon output.
I believe that’s why Premier Andrews is starting the State electricity commission again in Victoria to make sure investment is provided by the government to introduce new infrastructure where the private sector cant yet justify the investment required.
Hey it’s a mine field. The challenges are huge, but the way forward is there.
Holding it up are people scared of change, and not accepting their part in the pollution created when they turn power on.
The worst part currently is the next twenty years where the transition occurs and the private sector start shutting down their privately owned generators that governments sold off in the nineties, due to rising pressure on companies creating pollution, and say well find your own power now, we’re out. But that’s a whole different political story.
I was reading Tasmania has already had 100% production of renewable electricity due to the massive amount of hydro generation they have, topped up with solar and wind farms.
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This is from the Age newspaper.
“Electricity generation accounts for half of Victoria’s annual emissions, but the state’s three remaining coal-fired power plants are not counted individually under the safeguard mechanism.”
Aging infrastructure and lack of investment.
I doubt very much anyone will be building a new coal generation plant now.
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Thanks for your message Phil.
Hard to convey a sense of mood when typing out a message, but I respect your experience, knowledge, and opinion on what will be a difficult transition to having reliable base load power from renewable energy.
Like you said, coal is stable and has the ability to reliably maintain supply at all times and we need to rely on it for a while yet.
Unless the company you work for had a mechanical failure after doing maintenance on the bucket wheel drive assembly
of one of the larger diggers in Loy Yang mine.
Luckily we weren’t to blame as a sub assembly gearbox was supplied by the mine, with contaminated material in the oil galleries.
There was much fun with them using front end loaders day and night to keep coal up to the generators.
Anyways, different time.
There are so many machinations to the argument that even from the outside it is impossible to forecast what direction the country will go in.
There will be the requirements that we will actually need and then there will be what we will be delivered.
Governments are great at telling us what’s required from behind a desk.
I’m just looking forward to a time where we don’t have to produce half of the states pollution to generate electricity.
Then we will have to stop buying cheaply made goods from countries doing nothing to help reduce emissions.
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Big problems with calculating and comparing pollution levels though. For example, Developed Countries off-shore its pollution by having stuff made in Developing Countries like China, India, Bangladesh, etc. So all the stuff we buy is manufactured elsewhere, but the pollution caused by the manufacturing processes is really 'ours'.
The figures would look different if we made everything we use here in Oz.
As for environmental poisoning of rivers, land and water tables in those countries, that's due to slack laws and corrupt governments. Though, we have PLENTY of similar comparison in Australia too.
Hey Tang67,
Good point about the stuff we buy, pollution really being ours, but if it was a gift so.
But it’s not a gift it’s an exchange of goods, another way at looking at it, our money had a pollution element to it and there cars we buy have a bigger pollution element.
I don’t have a car made in any of these countries!
Just got to stop buying cheap Chinese rubbish plastic toys from $2 shops would start.
It is a long time tradition that these people pollute their rivers, their streets are polluted because they have grown up that way, monsoons and heavy rains wash this into streams and rivers.
Regardless of industry!
Cheers Phil.
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Hey Brett,
Your comment about Tasmania Hydro and wind must be wrong.
Although this was a comment I found on the net, Wrong!
Is Tasmania self sufficient in electricity?
We are now the first Australian state (and one of few places globally) to achieve 100 per cent renewable electricity generation. That means our island will make enough clean power to meet all of our current electricity needs.
Does Tasmania get power from Victoria?
The Basslink electricity interconnector is a 370 km (230 mi) 500 MW (670,000 hp) high-voltage direct current (HVDC) cable linking the electricity grids of the states of Victoria and Tasmania in Australia, crossing Bass Strait, connecting the Loy Yang Power Station, Victoria on the Australian mainland to ...
Current demand and price at 10pm Monday 20th Feb.
TASMANIA
PRICE $122.19
DEMAND 1193 VS GENERATION 746
And at the moment NSW is the cheapest power followed by QLD.
One very interesting thing on AEMO you can go to Dispatch Overview and you can see which states are feeding other states.
NSW has the highest demand typically.
VIC is currently supplying a stack of power to Tasmania, a bit to SA and a bit to NSW. QLD also supplying a bit to NSW.
Very interesting.
Cheers Phil.
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Hi Phil.
News story says there will be power shortages due closing of coal fired stations and slow investment in renewables causing power shortages in some states by 2027.
Hit on the head with the obvious plank.
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Reading a report on Tasmanian energy production.
Bass link is a two way connector so power generation is bidirectional between the mainland and Tasmania.
Year 2019/2020 had a power export from Tasmania of 1376 Gwh and an import amount of 867 Gwh.
Excess power produced by mainly hydro generation through cooler months exported to mainland, while reduced hydro generation through drier months supplemented by mainland gebpnerated power, which is from Loy Yang in Victoria.
https://www.economicregulator.tas.gov.au/Documents/Energy%20in%20Tasmania%20Report%202019-20.pdf
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Hi Phil.
News story says there will be power shortages due closing of coal fired stations and slow investment in renewables causing power shortages in some states by 2027.
Hit on the head with the obvious plank.
Yes, apparently last night it very close production and demand.
Comalco Aluminium Tomago is a massive user.
https://www.afr.com/politics/newcastles-tomago-smelter-braces-for-possible-catastrophe-20170210-gua1l4
Very political selling off power assets, amazingly Queensland that majority own assets are doing better than those States totally or partially sold off.
Cheers Phil.
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Look at the AEMO web site you’ll see the results, go to fuel mix, Current, 24Hr, 48Hr, 3 Months and 12 Months.
And then think how little renewables contribute and remember Black and Brown Coal and Gas production is strangled and limited to make up the deficit of what we need. They could happily produce much more, but renewables are flat out producing what they do.
Had a look at that website.
Suggest navigating to the data dashboard 'Renewable Penetration' tab.
Based on that, I wouldn't be investing in coal or LNG projects at least for domestic power generation purposes, and definitely wouldn't want kids to go into that sector for job security - coal and LNG is quickly becoming a niche market e.g. metallurgical coal and power generation for developing/emerging countries and those with few natural resources.
Many companies are divesting into other markets because of shareholder sentiment i.e. environmental issues and to accelerate the development of alternative energy. So, it's likely it'll be just a ticking over of existing mines to produce what is needed ... subject to political interference of course ... the catchphrase: 'to maintain employment'.
To be honest, coal mining has a history of pissing people off: chewing up productive farmland, killing river and lake systems, public and private land subsidence, coal dust residue, tailing dams, etc.
The aforementioned 'developing/emerging countries and those with few natural resources' are also critical that new technology isn't given to them - they'd also prefer not to use coal for power generation because of historic air quality/health issues, etc.
If I were in coal mining, it would be a dash for the door to get a hard rock mining job: that'll continue to grow because of the need for minerals and rare-earths. (Had a mate who worked in coal mines and made the switch decades ago, after a while it did his head in because the hard rock ones weren't supported by as many massive anchors and mesh like the coal mines. Eventually it got the better of him and he went back to coal mining! :lol:) Old horse new tricks!
Based on that dashboard, there's a BIG untapped potential for biomass (gas) e.g. every sewage treatment plant could produce 24/7 energy.
Better to have a lot of redundancy in power supplies than all the eggs in one basket.
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Had a look at that website.
Suggest navigating to the data dashboard 'Renewable Penetration' tab.
Funny how “Renewable Penetration” figures which are “best ever” are far different to the “Fuel Mix” tab for twelve mouths, Solar 6% and Wind 14% Engery Produced. (Not Growth)
'Renewable Penetration' growth of 0.2% and 3.9%.
And Fuel Mix was for ONE DAY ONLY Sat, 11 February, 2023, 13:30.
Doctored figures showing a one off occasion.
I also see an inconsistency comparing the two, one measure is Megawatt and the other is Megawatt per hour.
https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/australian-coal-back-in-demand-in-china-20230227-p5cnvv.html
China building coal fired power stations
China is Currently Building Over Half of The World's New Coal-based Power Plants. In 2021, China began building 33 gigawatts of coal-based power generation, according to the Helsinki-based Center for Research on Energy and Clean Air (CREA)
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/8101094/chinas-new-coal-power-plant-approvals-surge-in-2022/
Once again we need 15,000Mwh of Nuclear Power in ten years the rate of Coal fired Power Stations are deteriorating at present! As there is no Investment presently.
Renewable energy will not be stand alone for a long time? Who knows? and we will never produce Steel or Aluminium ever again. Don’t worry about that China would love our Coal and Ores and send it back to us.
It’s too late to panic!
Cheers Phil.
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Hey all,
Coal is not yet dead.
Great news for the Economy! Great royalties flowing back into Australia, great Job opportunities!
Unfortunately it’s not going to help Australia’s Energy Crisis!
And best of all Greenies are going ballistic!
NSW will consider allowing eight new coal mines and expansions this year with the potential to produce millions of tonnes of green house gas emissions once the coal is burnt, according to advocacy group Lock The Gate.
Climate activists say approving any new coal mining projects will undermine NSW's emissions targets.
The largest of the expansions under consideration is the jointly-owned Glencore and Yancoal open cut mine in the NSW Upper Hunter Valley, 24km north-west of Singleton.
If granted permission to continue mining operations until 2050, the project could be responsible for 1.2 billion tonnes of CO2 emissions, doubling current direct output.
Lock the Gate Alliance NSW coordinator Nic Clyde said the government's strategy for approving new coal mining projects had fatally undermined its emissions targets.
"NSW is now staring down the barrel of the biggest climate bomb from coal mine expansions since the Paris Agreement - putting our future at risk," Mr Clyde said.
"When every other sector in the NSW economy is doing their bit to start reducing emissions to address climate change, the coal and gas sector is running in the opposite direction."
All new mining proposals and expansions were assessed against the government's target to reduce emissions by 70 per cent by 2035, as well as impact on the surrounding environment and community, a spokeswoman for the Department of Planning and Environment said.
"This comprehensive assessment considers government policy, community feedback and advice from government agencies, as well as independent experts as required," the spokeswoman said.
According to a spokeswoman for Planning Minister Anthony Roberts, NSW was on track to halve emissions by 2030 compared to 2005 levels.
A Labor spokesman said the party supported the NSW Independent Planning Commission deciding on significant development applications in cases including when there is considerable community opposition.
"There is an independent process to assess all resources proposals, which we support," the spokesman said.
Greens MP Sue Higginson said it was "beyond comprehension" for NSW to be approving coal mine expansions when all major parties have a net zero target for emissions.
"Labor and the Liberals do not consider the emissions of coal that has been exported for burning overseas, rather they only consider the direct emissions of coal that is mined and burned domestically," she said.
"It is a dangerous perspective when we consider that carbon dioxide emitted by Indian power plants that are burning Australian coal are still contributing to the climate crisis."
Cheers Phil.
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so - if the worlds wants countries to move to renewable energy, then they have to make it commercially attractive.
Otherwise, people will continue to buy coal for power gen.
If the world wants us to stop selling coal to countries who want to buy it, then they should compensate us.
Can't have your cake and eat it all the time.
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Hey all,
John Laws is playing a song at the moment!
“Don’t sell your Saddle “
How true is that!
If you’re a cowboy you can’t exist without your Saddle!
If you’re a Government you can’t exist without your assets!
Power Generation and Power distribution, Mines, Poles and Wires, Harbours, Roads etc.
I’ve been “banging on” about this for thirty years!
IMO, We would be far better off now in This Global Energy Crisis if we contained these assets and grow steadily with the income we are earning!
IEA report Globally 2.4 trillion was spent on Renewable Energy in 2022.
Report:
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/07/global-renewable-energy-investment-iea/
Cheers Phil.
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Just one more, then I’ll go away.
European Wind Drought.
https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/europe-wind-drought/
Cheers Phil.
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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-01/rooftop-solar-to-overtake-coal-as-australias-main-power-source/102033740
if no new coal plants will be opened...
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Hey Fred,
I read some of this report and picked up several glaring irregularities.
Firstly it’s by the ABC, then I saw an industry body I’ve never heard of (Sunwiz), so I looked into Sunwiz, it’s a Commercial Solar Consultancy and PV Retailer. Not CSRIO or Independent Body without prejudice or Bias.
Then they talk about a capacity of Megawatts (Mw), In theory I could produce 20,000 Megawatts as they state on a push bike with a generator, But it would take me some time! A lot of time!
A true measurement is Mw/h of Gw/h, and given measurement (w) over and given time (hr), this may because whoever wrote this report knows nothing about Generation.
Obviously if we do not renew or build new Coal Power Plants it is inevitable this report is true.
But you need huge base load of some kind, Base load refers to the minimum level of power required across a set 24-hour period, primarily from equipment and appliances that consume power at a consistent rate.
At night solar itself cannot be a base load.
This is where Nuclear needs to step in, 10Gw/h minimum in the next ten years.
All rooftop solar systems return electricity within the street grid, the power ie. 230v can’t at the moment be retapped through street step down transformers and it would need to be inverted to a usable voltage, at least 11,000 volts.
Not sure that is possible!
You would need a combination of step up transformers and step down transformers. (Inverters).
Power stations by memory produce 32Kv then stepped up to 66Kv transmission lines then back to 11Kv distribution.
Voltage has a voltage drop of 3% per 1000Km.
They talk about the uptake of Solar panels but they don’t mention the replacement of existing solar panels and Inverters,
Panels last twenty years but efficiency lowers with age, Inverters only last ten to twelve years.
Look at reputable reports on YouTube like John Stossel, Matt Ferrell
https://youtu.be/U6JpmDqpzQY
https://youtu.be/f7DQ3SgSg0c
https://youtu.be/BW0UNF3UrxA
https://youtu.be/wPGBCGhk0jI
https://youtu.be/xxXlD4e-wTE
https://youtu.be/Jsff3sNDOFc
https://youtu.be/m3hHi4sylxE
One other alternative is where there are existing Coal Fired plants that had extensions planned like Mt Piper in NSW.
It was built with two units with plans to add another two units in the future.
Get ready in the next few years for rolling Electricity Shortage and total blackouts!
Cheers Phil.
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Hi Phil,
I agree on nuclear, unfortunately nowadays it takes a lot of time to build a nuclear plant, in the near future it would be quicker.
Honestly there is no need for new coal power plants, I believe we can find better alternatives, including battery storages for all these solar panels (night use) and gas plants as back up for peak periods.
Solutions are out there already, we just need competent governments to decide to use them.
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Hey Fred,
Just to clear up things with everyone, I no longer work and have not worked for some time (ten years) in the Coal Industry or Power Industry and do not stand to make any benefit by my opinions. It is a fascination I have looking into the subject!
Modular Nuclear plants (SMR) has a projected construction time of three to five years, while a large reactor takes six to 12 years.
It wouldn’t surprise me if there are Asian Companies out there waiting for the Global Energy Crisis to worsen then buying existing Coal Power Plants at rock bottom prices then step in and manufacture Thermo Power (Coal or Small Modular Nuclear) using the existing distribution facilities and making a huge profit because AEMO will be begging for Power at any cost.
This has all been the result of Governments obligating there responsibility to provide basic needs (Electricity, Water, Roads, Gaols etc.) to the nation privatising assets to Companies who like all Companies want to make money for shareholders. This is for a quick rush of money from the sale of assets is so that Government can say we did this, but in the long term it is detrimental.
Electricity needs in remote locations are usually small and variable, making them suitable for a smaller plant. The smaller size may also reduce the need for a grid to distribute their output.
This could have been done in Tasmania and South Australia taking them off the Eastern Grid saving money on the Basslink project $875 million. (It’s a distribution cost not a production of Power)
A report boasted Tasmania stood alone supplying enough Power for their State using Solar, wind and Hydro, it you look at AEMO, It hardly doesn’t rely on Basslink. Go to AEMO dispatch overview and you can see how power is distributed state to state and incredibly at present Tasmania is standing alone, hahaha. Update, just checked again 15 minutes later it’s drawing 218Mw.
Rooftop Solar systems at the moment can’t be measured due to the inability to Re-tap through the street substation, the output is a guesstimate, these panels get dirty, age, the inverter may not supply as new or shutdown without you knowing, (the only way is to regularly check your inverter is working) and do supply less than new. An inverter will just switch to grid power and you wil be non the wiser until you get your next power bill.
So, All Rooftop Solars systems need to be connected through smart meters connected through the internet to AEMO as a correct measure.
I had Solar on my last house, it was only 18 months I sold the house and within a week the realtor rang me about it not working, luckily it was the inverter and was under warranty.
My new house has a white colorbond roof (Surfmist) and there is no way I’m going to put up ugly black panels, jutting out at the ends looking like old roof racks on a new car.
We are in a new development and not many new houses have Solar. I think the hype is over!
At the moment Battery Storage is only useful for non renewable sources as the renewables are flat out through the day supplying day power to store overnight power. Wallerwang ex Power Station is a great location to store excess power from Mount Piper Power Station which is misused as Base load power.
Cheers Phil.
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It always makes me shudder when the 'nuclear' option is mentioned - can’t believe how ill-informed/miss informed many are about nuclear energy. People need to stop thinking along the lines of one type of generation – that’s old school thinking - there are many flavours that we in Oz are lucky to have available: coal, natural gas, thermal, abundant wind and solar opportunities, currently untouched tidal options, hydro, etc. They’ll simply be switching on/off at different times of the day and managed that way much the same way it is already done – no biggie.
Simple facts about going nuclear, and why it currently doesn’t make sense for Oz:
1. Small/mobile reactors: they aren’t only inefficient, they produce more waste and have a very short life-cycle compared to the big reactors. So they are very costly to run and then leave highly contaminated, long lived waste
2, Big nuclear: getting a new nuclear power station off the ground has been estimated to take 20 years, and since most only have a life-cycle of 30 years, they are prohibitively expensive to build, maintain, and then create HUGE volumes of contaminated, long lived waste – not only the spent fuel rods, just about every metal, plastic and concrete widget in the place needs to be isolated and/or buried FOREVER. And, the site itself needs to be managed in caretaker mode indefinitely. That’s one of the reasons China is investing in more coal fired power stations.
3. Location and Coolant: Most, but now all, reactors need plentiful supplies of water or some other coolant, and need to be built near populated areas to avoid loss – Australia is a dry continent. Using sea water creates other issues. Then, try to pick a place on the Eastern Seaboard where a coastal community will agree to one being built – good luck with that. Also, we are known world-wide for having ‘clean & green’ crops and seafood … see that go out the window for trade.) Then there is always the looming prospect of New Zealand going ‘pop’ and we get the resultant tsunami … just like Fukushima.
4. Infrastructure – nuclear energy was a by-product of the Manhattan Project. In a somewhat unique scenario, they had this thing and needed to find a use for it = ‘Hey Mr Oppenheimer, this stuff will heat water really quickly, reckon we just came up with a use for it other than blowing big holes in the ground!’ Jokes aside, the countries involved in the Atomic/Nuclear industry have a history going back to the 1940’s, and the dirty, dangerous legacy that goes with it. To set up that type of full scale industry here is not only ridiculously expensive, it would pollute pristine environments for little to no net gain. The major problem is with our Politicians being wined & dined by the USA/UK/French fraternity just so they can make money at our extreme expense - like the coal lobby.
5. Transparency: the nuclear industry is anything but transparent and honest. In democratic, advanced economy countries, nuclear energy should be managed and operated by the Federal Government. History has shown, private companies cannot be trusted with it, particularly when their sole function in life is to cut corners and make money. Most exist because they are highly subsidised by their Governments.
6. Besides the monetary, health, and environmental costs, nuclear energy is NOT carbon neutral – there are no free lunches: mine operations and the machinery needed to dig uranium out of the ground, transport it to a processing plant to create yellow cake and then into rods for the reactor. It all takes fossil fuels, large volumes of water, and ironically huge volumes of electricity, AND THEN, creates enormous volumes of low/medium/high radioactive waste that then needs to be transported somewhere for dumping – yes, it is effectively dumping crap into a deep hole and hope it doesn’t get disturbed for millennia.
7. Cost and Efficiency: a recent article in the Financial Review, about a CSIRO report, found: ‘… a small reactor typically costs as much as $16,000 per kilowatt-hour, 50 to 100 per cent more than large-scale nuclear. By contrast, wind and solar come in under $2000 per kilowatt-hour …’. So, nuclear is more than 8X expensive and then leaves a filthy legacy for future generations. Improvements in technology for wind/solar and others are happening almost on a monthly basis, increasing generation and storage/capacity.
8. Fusion energy: optimistic at best. So far, pie in the sky.
If it comes to burning coal or going nuclear, I’ll take coal every time, breakfast, lunch and dinner.
The future of power generation in Oz will simply be a mix of things (sans nuclear), with an ever decreasing reliance on coal and gas. If they ever create so-called ‘clean coal’ then we’re gonna be extremely lucky!
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Thanks Phil and Tang for sharing these info, very interesting points of view :thumb:
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Hey tang and Fred,
Of course my first choice would be clean coal production.
But in this Green climate it’s unmentionable.
An earlier post was about dirty dust belching Coal power Stations, we are far from the grate fed Power Stations like Balmain, Whitebay and early Wangi Wangi.
All modern Coal Fired Power Stations use pulverised coal for an instant clean burn and use precipitators (extraction of fly ash).
That is a byproduct that causes concern, in the old days with bag precipitators it would be blended with cement products etc. and used in toothpaste. Now the slurry is pumped into valleys and set to dry.
The coal that Mt Piper has been receiving for a few years has been rubbish and should’ve been blended better with very good Clarence coal.
It’s amazing Asian and Indian Power Station freight coal from Australia and we can’t freight it from Ulan area and make a profit.
But, the Global Energy Crisis hasn’t hit as hard as it will.
I’m just giving my view that Solar and Wind don’t have a chance of delivering what we need.
Again the previous Governments are at fault! And we shouldn’t even be having these discussions.
They don’t seem to be to concerned about it like we are.
I was unaware of the problems you have brought up about Nuclear, but I will look into it.
The water situation should be addressed by harvesting, we’ve just had floods everywhere and no one talks about capturing it to reuse. For heavens sake we can’t lift Warragamba dam wall.
I heard a little about tidal but thought it dropped of the earth, I now see some on YouTube, I’ll watch later.
Once again transmission lines would be a consideration.
We should not be all forced to put Solar panels on our houses to pull the previous Governments out of the muck they got as into. They said populate or perish, dry continent, how can that work.
My Solar experience has been that successful.
Cheers Phil.
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Hey,
Just gets regurgitated and those who can do something don’t do anything and seem not to care!
https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6321909007112
Cheers Phil.
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Hi all,
Another ex-asset sells for record price.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/sep/19/private-owners-net-millions-in-sale-of-ageing-coal-fired-power-station-in-nsw
Cheers Phil.
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Hi all,
Another ex-asset sells for record price.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/sep/19/private-owners-net-millions-in-sale-of-ageing-coal-fired-power-station-in-nsw
Cheers Phil.
That’s bad…
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Hey all,
I found this off the web interesting,
In Sydney and Perth, summer days are only around 14 hours long, although winter days last for 10 hours. In tropical Australia, the length of the day is close to 12 hours all year around.
It is 7.30 am at the moment at the start of Autumn and Solar from AEMO is 1%.
But, if you look on AEMO at the variance over 12 months Solar does not dramatically increase / decrease through winter to summer.
Cheers Phil.
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Hey All,
You must find this interesting, otherwise you won’t clicked on this.
Two more interesting talks!
This one talks about,
Slave labour Congo required rare minerals!
When you plug you’re EV or device in?
Fossil fuels and synthetic fuels.
Clayton talks about Scrubbers (passing the exhaust gasses through water and detergent) which is very impractical.
The next useless thing is particle filters trapping the nitrates (NO2) into a mass, this mass is dangerous in itself, localising it in the filter and then the need to dispose it safety and ridiculously impractical.
Both used more so in large Diesel fleets.
https://youtu.be/1J61TPKNlls
Vulnerable countries like the Congo, East Africa and Micronesia and Ukraine have high volumes of minerals like lithium, cobalt etc, and the countries are also have high levels of corruption or as Ukraine at war.
These countries can dig it up but can not process it, China can, the rest of the world must counteract this.
World instability!
This lady has a strong accent so listen closely!
https://youtu.be/za6dE5JrNB0
Also we (Or Greenies) use the general term is “SAVING THE PLANET”
No the planet will survive after we’ve all died, the term should if anything say “SAVING OR MAINTAINING CIVILISATION AS LONG AS WE ARE ALLOWED BY THE EARTH AND THE UNIVERSE”.
The planet will reset itself when we’re all gone, inevitably!
I agree we need to save Civilisation as long as we can but we can’t control forces of the Universe!
Cheers Phil.
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Hi all,
You’re back again!
https://youtu.be/uGzCQZUrs2k
Cheers Phil.
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Sourcing minerals for electric cars from decent countries has always been an issue, and it will be for the foreseeable future.
Also in European countries or Australia or US having an electric car is not so "green", as you need to drive 100,000km or more to be able to offset the production of the car itself, assuming you can charge the car with renewable energy only.
These days Europe is considering using nuclear power again to be able to transition to renewable in the future, also including small reactors. If you understand italian here is an article: https://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2023/03/16/net-zero-industry-act-ce-anche-il-nucleare-nella-proposta-ue-sui-fondi-allenergia-pulita-via-libera-ai-reattori-di-piccole-dimensioni/7099266/
It will be interesting how this will work with Italy, as they banned any nuclear after Chernobyl. Back then there were 3 nuclear power plants active, which have been closed after the referendum (referendum based on fear). Of course the ban includes nuclear weapons, but interestingly enough Italy has American nuclear weapons on its soil, stored in US military bases. So Italy is acting against its on Constitution.
Another funny fact is that Italy imports nuclear energy from France and there are nuclear plants around Italian borders with France, Slovenia and Switzerland.
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Thumbs up Fred!
My son takes delivery of a Tesla soon.
I can’t talk him out of it and it’s driving me crazy or crazier.
I’m betting his wife and kids will get car sick in it!
There are plenty of Hybrids I’ve recommended but na!
Cheers Phil.
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I believe most of the Tesla drivers have that car because it's fashion and almost a status symbol, not because they care about the environment.
Just to be clear, I'm not judging Tesla or other electric cars owners, they can buy whatever they please; but I don't accept when they say "I buy an electric car because I'm green" and then they produce a ridiculous amount of waste at home and/or buy fast-fashion crap.
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Hey Fred,
Yep, couldn’t say it Better myself.
Cheers Phil.
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Cheers Phil.
https://youtu.be/wClqYX-PGIQ
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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-01/electric-vehicle-battery-waste-projections-uts-research/102417114#
Ups…
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/03/electric-vehicles-early-adopter-petrol-car-ev-environment-rowan-atkinson
Never, ever does anyone talk about the dust to dust cost of these things. Hint, it's astronomical!
Especially compared to my maintained, 58 year old Mustang that's yet to see it second "dust".
As an aside, I used to do a lot of work in China. Even in the regions, you could not even go for a run outside in the early hours of the morning without getting into breathing difficulty.....
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/03/electric-vehicles-early-adopter-petrol-car-ev-environment-rowan-atkinson
Never, ever does anyone talk about the dust to dust cost of these things. Hint, it's astronomical!
Especially compared to my maintained, 58 year old Mustang that's yet to see it second "dust".
As an aside, I used to do a lot of work in China. Even in the regions, you could not even go for a run outside in the early hours of the morning without getting into breathing difficulty.....
Hey, thanks for your input,
I grew up in Lithgow, NSW. Back during the settlement of Lithgow coal, copper ore, iron ore was discovered and Lithgow had copper production in 1874 and iron and steel production (first in Australia) in 1886 to 1928.
With this the Sulfur in this production killed most of the landscape trees and vegetation.
Without this copper, steel, iron and cement from nearby Portland much of Sydney would not exist!
These industries died out due to the lack of local ore, transport was at its infancy.
Many would joke that’s not a bad thing, hahaha!
The hills around the valley were bare of vegetation, you can see from old photos.
Recently coal fires and boilers (Donkeys) in the area were replaced by wood heaters and better gas heating and gas hot water.
One hundred years after this the trees and vegetation has grown back as before!
My wife grew up near Wollongong, the Steel Works was much improved and grew with time.
In the 1980’s Wollongong was a dirty town.
But now days it is a beautiful city, with magical beaches.
And I bet others have the same story about Newcastle and other areas!
Newcastle harbour and beaches are of the best.
Unfortunately Newcastle iron and steel did not survive to build on environmental developments?
So this shows we (Australians) have improved its effect on the environment and we need to pressure others to clean up their own backyard.
One thing though, our roadsides, rivers and streets are cluttered with tins, bottles, shopping trolleys and fast food rappers from lazy bastards, particularly shopping trolleys in our rivers, little minds must get a kick out of being stupid!
Unfortunately a lot of industries died off before they could benefit from better technologies.
Cheers Phil
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Hey all,
Talk around Bathurst and Oberon is the forestry commission is investigating wind farms in with the Pine plantations in the hills around Oberon.
What industries are in Oberon?
Particleboard, MDF and melamine manufacturing facility. Borg's Oberon facilities boast Australia's newest and largest particleboard line and pine harvesting through Australian Panels and Plantation Pine Products.
So there would need to be much clearing (reducing forested Pine) increasing fire risk and the usual blight on the landscape, increasing noise pollution, neighbourhood restlessness, Sun / Shade flicker on households.
Let’s hope commonsense prevails!
Cheers Phil.
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Hey all,
Apparently China and India are not the only polluters!
https://youtube.com/shorts/2TY_5zu7eGE?feature=share
Cheers Phil.
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Hey all,
Update on China, this time a massive amount of EV cars catching on fire and going unreported as usual!
https://youtu.be/yOA7qKMcjcE
https://youtu.be/1SEfwoqKRU8
Cheers Phil
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Hey All,
Toyota is the largest manufacturer of motor vehicles and not going to EV as this report.
https://youtu.be/DK7MjajHMAY
VW is the second largest manufacturer of motor vehicles and this report says sales of EV cars is flat.
This is is one of many about VW on YouTube at the moment.
https://youtu.be/L3E7Z4bOxjg
Cheers Phil.
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Hey all,
Here is another one, this time about Hyundai.
This YouTube posting sounds more like a sales advertisement.
But all through this they speak about discounts and Government incentives.
https://youtu.be/mtVr8JHXQH4
Australia along with Europe and other countries want total change to EV by 2035, USA later I believe, California still plans 2035, these Green Authority groups need to wake up to the false hype of EV’s are Green and Safe.
Cheers Phil.
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Hey all,
Just another post, hope you’re not getting sick of them, but they keep popping up on my YouTube.
And I find it fascinating those controlling our Car, Electric, Heating, Cooking, (referring to Gas) choices aren’t in the same world as “Normal People”
https://youtube.com/shorts/XV9ijKAubfU?feature=share
I must disclose that my son has a Tesla, it’s a fad, he’s a computer geek, he’ll grow out of it!
Cheers Phil.