Seat belts 66 Coupe

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Offline Hompas

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Seat belts 66 Coupe
« on: May 06, 2021, 02:43:45 pm »
Hi All,
Newbie to the world of Mustangs here, I have a 66 Coupe and need to put seatbelts in. I assume that originally lap sash style belts were used in the front but for piece of mind and safety I was looking at putting in 3 point seatbelts. If you have put them in, where have you mounted them in the roof or under the rear window?
Many Thanks

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Seat belts 66 Coupe
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2021, 03:01:47 pm »
Hi Hompas,
I was thinking the same thing a few years ago, I put in four point race harnesses and they look great but are stupidly complicated to get into! They're for sale if anyone wants them!
I've gone back to the original lap belts, but am very interested in what people come up with!
Cheers Phil.
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Offline GEOFF289

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Re: Seat belts 66 Coupe
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2021, 04:28:02 pm »
My three point belts are mounted under the window line on the B pillar, as per this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC6Uk5g9y6o

I got the mounting kit from CJ's and the Australian complianced belts from https://www.seatsafe.com.au/, who were very helpful in making sure I ordered the right thing. You have to pay particular attention to the angle of the retractor.

To head off a question I'm often asked, no they don't slip of your shoulder.

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Seat belts 66 Coupe
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2021, 06:51:53 pm »
Hey Geoff,
Just watched this and I'm sold, seems like a great fit, I'll fit one in time! :thumb:
Cheers Phil.
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Offline Megzee67

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Re: Seat belts 66 Coupe
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2021, 07:10:43 pm »
Hi Phil,
I ordered an AGI 4 point roll cage for my 67 and your 4 point belts would suit the mounts perfectly.
How much do you want for your set?
Do they have a certified expiry period.
Cheers
Mike
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They listen with the intent to reply.

Offline Hompas

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Re: Seat belts 66 Coupe
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2021, 01:35:03 pm »
Thanks for your reply's, Geoff289 Thanks for the link. Looks nice and neat and not too much mucking around.

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Seat belts 66 Coupe
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2021, 05:18:57 pm »
Hi Phil,
I ordered an AGI 4 point roll cage for my 67 and your 4 point belts would suit the mounts perfectly.
How much do you want for your set?
Do they have a certified expiry period.
Cheers
Mike

Hey Mike,
That's one nice car, there's nothing like old model race cars!!! :omg: :coolpic:
Raw muscle!,,
Cheers Phil.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2021, 05:28:19 pm by AussiePhil »
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
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Offline Megzee67

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Re: Seat belts 66 Coupe
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2021, 09:01:13 pm »
Hi Phil,
Yep, cool car and great story behind it.......Holman/Moody build from the late 60's....I posted a link on the full story a few months ago....great read......
Hence, I have changed my build plan to replicate the low, wide TransAm look...Now trying to tuck 15 x 8's on the front end..
Plus, just scored a set of 4 point harnesses from you know who.. :grin:
It's all coming together....
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They listen with the intent to reply.

Offline GEOFF289

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Re: Seat belts 66 Coupe
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2021, 01:18:45 pm »
Thanks for your reply's, Geoff289 Thanks for the link. Looks nice and neat and not too much mucking around.

As I often say, if I can do it anyone can. Bit psychologically daunting drilling holes in your car.

Couple of other bits of info from my experience of fitting them. Firstly, be very careful about the placement of the holes for the retractors on the floor. On mine they ended up a little too close for comfort to the rear seat which came within a feeler guage of stuffing up the angle on the retractor which as I said before is very important for them to actually retract properly.

Secondly, the CJ kit (may be Scott Drake, can't remember, but I got it from CJ's) provides for a threaded stud on the "B pillar" with the belt secured to this with a nylock nut. The belts I got, however, are intended to be used with a thin headed bolt into a captive nut. They come with little triangular plastic covers that then slide up over the fitting making it all look nice and neat. These covers wouldn't go over the stud and nut in my set up. I just got some stainless dome nuts to put on top of the nylocks to tidy things up, looks reasonably neat and in my view anyway looks more period correct than the plastic covers would anyway. 

Offline 67FBGT

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Re: Seat belts 66 Coupe
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2021, 12:22:15 pm »
Quote
be very careful about the placement of the holes for the retractors on the floor.
Yes. The retractors need to be positioned well back so as not to compromise seat adjustment. Not only practical but an ADR requirement IIRC.

One comment, and this came from a medical opinion I heard back when I upgraded my '67 FB from factory lap belts to 3 point inertia reels.
Fixing the seatbelt to the structure below the side window - as in that youtube video - is all very well and neat, but it does mean that the seatbelt angles down off the users' shoulders to that point. Meaning that in an impact the user's skeletal system is possibly pulled downwards not just restrained. Which can't be good.
Hence I used the roof rail for the 3rd fixing, in the very same location as Ford did themselves when they installed 3-point belts in the '68 cars.
My 2c worth anyway.

Offline Gallop

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Re: Seat belts 66 Coupe
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2021, 12:47:35 pm »
I will start be saying I could be wrong.

I thought in Aust the seat belt anchor point had to use a bolt with a specific thread size and diameter that then threads into a nut.

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Seat belts 66 Coupe
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2021, 01:00:32 pm »
Hey Geoff,
Great video!
Your Quote; Bit psychologically daunting drilling holes in your car.

Yes, I was a bit surprised seeing that big drill going through, could have damaged things and paint work!
I would make a spigot and start with a smaller drill, then get bigger to suit drilled from outside the car!

Cheers Phil
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Offline GEOFF289

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Re: Seat belts 66 Coupe
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2021, 04:09:41 pm »
I will start be saying I could be wrong.

I thought in Aust the seat belt anchor point had to use a bolt with a specific thread size and diameter that then threads into a nut.

I don't pretend to be any sort of expert about either engineering or legalities. I just shared how I went about replacing the dubious lap belts in mine with three point retractables. Up to others whether they go down the same path.

Yes. The retractors need to be positioned well back so as not to compromise seat adjustment. Not only practical but an ADR requirement IIRC.

One comment, and this came from a medical opinion I heard back when I upgraded my '67 FB from factory lap belts to 3 point inertia reels.
Fixing the seatbelt to the structure below the side window - as in that youtube video - is all very well and neat, but it does mean that the seatbelt angles down off the users' shoulders to that point. Meaning that in an impact the user's skeletal system is possibly pulled downwards not just restrained. Which can't be good.
Hence I used the roof rail for the 3rd fixing, in the very same location as Ford did themselves when they installed 3-point belts in the '68 cars.
My 2c worth anyway.

I have also read that but I've also read that the "B pillar" is way stronger than the roof in these old cars. Modern cars tend to have higher waist lines than old Mustangs but some modern convertibles must  have the top mount under the window line. My partner had a VW Eos, hard top convertible, for many years. She's short enough that the top mount was above her shoulder but when I drove it the top mount was below my shoulder line. Someone will be able to tell us what the go is with current Gen 6 Mustang convertible seat belts.

I also note that four or more point racing harnesses typically have the over the shoulder straps secured behind the driver and below the shoulder line.

I will start be saying I could be wrong.

I thought in Aust the seat belt anchor point had to use a bolt with a specific thread size and diameter that then threads into a nut.

See above. The Aussie belts had the same diameter hole as the CJ stud, don't know about the thread pitch. If you were keen you could easily make up a plate and weld a captive nut to it and use the bolt that came with the local belt. I actually thought about doing this when I realised the plastic cover wouldn't fit but decided my welding wasn't really something I wanted to rely on for something like seat belts.

Hey Geoff,
Great video!
Your Quote; Bit psychologically daunting drilling holes in your car.

Yes, I was a bit surprised seeing that big drill going through, could have damaged things and paint work!
I would make a spigot and start with a smaller drill, then get bigger to suit drilled from outside the car!

Cheers Phil

Too right Phil! That's what I did, also taped up the drill site

Offline Dwayne

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Re: Seat belts 66 Coupe
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2021, 05:15:05 pm »
Someone will be able to tell us what the go is with current Gen 6 Mustang convertible seat belts.

They have a hook on the seat to prevent the belt from sliding down below the shoulder level.

My 66 has the belt in the same location as you, that's why I'm going with 2018 vert seats instead of coupe ones (plus the rears don't have the split)


Offline GEOFF289

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Re: Seat belts 66 Coupe
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2021, 06:00:11 pm »
Cheers Dwayne. As I said earlier in this thread, mine don't slip off my shoulder. I'm just a plug gap over 6 feet. I think the physics of this is that the taller you are the more the potential for them to slip off.

One of the effects of having the belts like this is that they tend to stay tighter than the conventional ones in our other cars when you're wearing them. They don't slip off. At all, Ever.

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Seat belts 66 Coupe
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2021, 07:21:42 pm »
Hi all,
Watching the CJ Pony video again Bill talks about 68 on Mustangs can have the top anchor point attached to the roof line!
I've felt through the my roof lining and found a slot and hole were a plate could fit in and attach an anchor point.
But that way the belt would hang down past the rear window and ruin the look of two window open look and would flap in the wind!
There for I think it would be better fitted on the non B pillar under the window line as per the video!
The possibility that the belt may slip off your shoulder is far less important to me than ruining the look of the two window open look!!!
Cheers again Phil.
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Offline GEOFF289

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Re: Seat belts 66 Coupe
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2021, 09:05:36 pm »
The roof isn't really the right spot either. Having it up this high makes the belt cut into your neck rather than going across the shoulder. That's why things like this are often seen in pillarless applications.

https://www.seatbeltking.com.au/product/seat-belt-drop-links-for-coupe-and-two-door-vehicles-seatbelt-droplinks/

Offline 67FBGT

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Re: Seat belts 66 Coupe
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2021, 02:55:45 pm »
Quote
I've felt through the my roof lining and found a slot and hole were a plate could fit in and attach an anchor point.
The same hole is there on my early '67 FB, all I had to do was add an anchor plate, which was slipped inside the rail and rivetted in place. It's not used for the very end of the belt but is used for a droplink (same thing as in the link posted above), so the belt itself is slung down closer to my shoulder level.
So the belt in fact uses 4 fixing points, the two installed by the factory for a lap belt (the one on the tunnel being for the wand), the new one in the roof rail, and a new one for the inertia reel as far back on the sill as practicable.

I just don't like a seatbelt angled less than horizontally off my shoulder to the fixing point. Seems wrong. But of course with a CV there's no option.

To each his own. The most important thing is that we all upgrade our cars from lap belts to 3 point belts, however they are done is surely a big leap forward in old vehicle safety.  :thumb:
« Last Edit: May 14, 2021, 03:53:23 pm by 67FBGT »

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Seat belts 66 Coupe
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2021, 08:49:50 am »
Hi all,
Just finished off fitting my 3 point retractable seat belts on my 68 Mustang.
I ended up using the roof mounted existing slot and hole with a threaded anchor plate, a 250mm drop link and custom made anchor plates on the floor closer to the door edge. Really happy with the finish, it sits well seated and at rest!
I'll post photos later! Can't post photos of the floor anchor plates as I've put everything back together!
Cheers Phil
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Seat belts 66 Coupe
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2021, 08:50:33 am »
How it sits!
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Seat belts 66 Coupe
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2021, 08:53:35 am »
Roof anchor slot and hole!
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Seat belts 66 Coupe
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2021, 09:44:21 am »
Hi all, finished job!
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Offline GEOFF289

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Re: Seat belts 66 Coupe
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2021, 03:34:38 pm »
Nice job Phil. How did you secure the top mount to the car?

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Seat belts 66 Coupe
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2021, 03:59:59 pm »
Hey Geoff,
I used 1" x 3/8" x 1 1/2" long steel bar with 7/16" UNF threaded hole, not longer or it won't fit into the channel through the slot.
I initially made these to slip up the door channel and anchor without drilling through the other side as Bill did in the CJ Pony video.
I just used contact cement to hold it in place! Contact cement was a bit sticky,  I'd used silastic next time.
Cheers Phil.

If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Seat belts 66 Coupe
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2021, 04:16:50 pm »
Then I used those grandma seat belt cushions to protect the seat from the belt.
I won them once and I then found at the bottom draw! Who would think they'd come in handy!
Cheers Phil.
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!