Small block versus BIG BLOCK

[BLKPNY]

Someone mentioned that the FE can be 460ci +, and Ford do a 520ci? It isn't the FE big Block, that is the 429/460 truck engine. If you were going a big block for power, that would be the choice. The FE is not a very strong engine, generally, and has little support, by comparison, in the aftermarket.
The Windsor is a smaller lighter package, with great support in the aftermarket, and good inherant strength. I would be a lot more comfortable, building 500hp in a 351w block, than an FE. Cheaper, too.

If you want BIG power, BIG cubes, and reliability, and want to drive it normally on the road, I would always choose a 429/460 block. I don't know how they go in 67's though.....
If you want to drive it like a sports car, then definately, stay with a 302 style block, or maybe a 351w, with alloy heads/manifold/waterpump etc.

Ask Ash about the 460 engines, or Nez Demaj. They run a lot of 460's, from 532ci upto 604ci, and are running in the 7's on the racetrack, reliably, naturally aspirated, and in 1/2 chassis cars.

Summary, IMHO, without choosing aftermarket blocks:
302 stroked to 331 for high RPM, good turning and balance
302 stroked to 347 for street engine, good turning and balance
351 stroked to 393 for reasonably high RPM, all alloy accessories, for good handling Streeter
351 stroked to 408/418 for low RPM, Good handlng Streeter
If it fits (Wishlist)
429/460 for big power, street handling
429/460 Stroker for huge power, with street handling.

FE for originality.

YMMV

[BLKPNY]

The clevo, and the Modified, is considered a big block by some, due to the large physical size of the assembled engine. The deck height on the 351c is actually less than the 351w, but the heads follow the profile of the block, making them very wide, where the 351w heads become vertical after the mounting pads for the head bolts. The W exhaust ports come in from the side, the C ports point down on the 45 degree.
The Modified (351m & 400m) is taller than both the 351w & C.

A Windsor with Clevo heads (Boss Style) is a lot bigger than a W with W heads. A 351w Boss style would be massive!

A 351c is not much smaller than a 429/460, which is why they are fitted to so many Aussie Falcons, with not much more hassle.

[non member]

390 is an FE, same block as a 428. All FE engines fit in a 67, just you cannot work on them once they are in.

http://www.mercurystuff.com/fe-engine-specs.html

[Thirsty428]

Originally posted by ozbilt
390 is an FE, same block as a 428. All FE engines fit in a 67, just you cannot work on them once they are in.

http://www.mercurystuff.com/fe-engine-specs.html

Yes, I'll admit changing the spark plugs took me about 5 hours. It was fun to say the least!!
We have done plenty of work on the motor in the car. But overall, motors got to come out for many things a windsor stays in for.

I end it with, the sound of that big block is enough for me to keep on taking out whenever I can.

[BLKPNY]

Originally posted by ozbilt
390 is an FE, same block as a 428. All FE engines fit in a 67, just you cannot work on them once they are in.

http://www.mercurystuff.com/fe-engine-specs.html

I didn't dispute that, I said the 429/460 were not FE Big Blocks.

[non member]

Originally posted by BLKPNY

Originally posted by ozbilt
390 is an FE, same block as a 428. All FE engines fit in a 67, just you cannot work on them once they are in.

http://www.mercurystuff.com/fe-engine-specs.html

I didn't dispute that, I said the 429/460 were not FE Big Blocks.

That was not directed at you, just info in general.

Edit, When I direct someting, I "quote" them first.

[shaunp]

Originally posted by ozbilt
390 is an FE, same block as a 428. All FE engines fit in a 67, just you cannot work on them once they are in.

http://www.mercurystuff.com/fe-engine-specs.html

With the correct heads I think, I think some 390 Gal motors have heads which don't work in a 67 exhaust port angle is wrong.
Stroked windsor is best option in my book, you are just looking for a long conrod and over all cubes. The World manowars 460s etc are all just Windsors, I think the Shelbys are to, albeit in an alloy block, still just a windsor thats got long rods, that what you get if you buy a new GT500.
light wieght , big cubes is the go.

[shaunp]

Oh and don't worry about plugs in any engine these days, just fit some iridium plugs they are good for 100k km. Set and forget

http://www.worldcastings.com/products/engines/small-block-ford-engines/

[mach70]

Originally posted by Thirsty390

Originally posted by ozbilt
390 is an FE, same block as a 428. All FE engines fit in a 67, just you cannot work on them once they are in.

http://www.mercurystuff.com/fe-engine-specs.html

Yes, I'll admit changing the spark plugs took me about 5 hours. It was fun to say the least!!
We have done plenty of work on the motor in the car. But overall, motors got to come out for many things a windsor stays in for.

I end it with, the sound of that big block is enough for me to keep on taking out whenever I can.
 

Sound like you need to install a Quick Release for you motor. :+

[usa289]

Originally posted by stangLover

At the end of the day, cost might be the deciding factor.:(

Hey stanglover,

Heaps of great advice here but frankly and quite simply mate ... what is your budget?

So you already have the springs and discs and some "donated" parts, but how much have you allowed and are willing to spend to change the complete drive train??

I think this will help determine whether you go big block or small?  

Cheers,

[Macka]

If you have some extra bits left over from the build, sell what you can of the big block bit and put them towards a stoker.  Looks all original and performs better than a big block.  Trust me.  Or you can organise to coime for a ride.

;3

[stangLover]

I never mentioned price as I know the skies the limit.....
But now that you mention it, can one compare the price of a 351w stroker to a stock 390big block?
Or am i confusing things now?......again, for the frustrated, don't feel you have to contribute, this is a learning curve for us non engine dudes.;w

[stangLover]

.........if we really must put a budget on it, lets say about 10grand......what would be the best option for that sort of $$
No need to worry about brakes or suspension.
Just motor and say a matching gearbox.

[68pony]

Originally posted by shaunp
Mate you want as little weight in the front of a mustang as possible, so small block is the go. If you want big block cubes you stroke a 351 windsor. Also you can buy really good parts for windsors for way less than for FE engines etc, the windsor stuff is off the shelf. Any good 351 block will go 393, an aftermarket block will go to 460, but it is still in a windsor small block package.

Baz shaup has just answered your question , more weight means bigger brakes , stiffer springs , poorer handling as well as a  <b>[Censored]</b> to fit extractors , pain in the arse to work on(no room) , if its cubes you need its simple 351 STROKER don't rush do it right the first time.
cheers chris

[eri67]

Originally posted by stangLover
.........if we really must put a budget on it, lets say about 10grand......what would be the best option for that sort of $$
No need to worry about brakes or suspension.
Just motor and say a matching gearbox.

nice  windsor, cam, extractors  and 5speed.

for that money I think you should really look at getting a 4  barrel intake and carb, a set of headers ( exhaust etc) a a nice tremec or toplader your current motor is not about to fall over yet on you and with some small changes will have a significant improvement in power

[BLKPNY]

You can't draw a comparison.
My old mild 351w dynoed 150 rwkw, thru a 2500rpm convertor. thats about 200hp at the wheels, in the old money. Thats about 275hp at the fly, thru a hi-stall, in the car. 295's on the rear, single wheeler diff, 2.8 gears. Stop the car, in the dry, take foot off the brake and floor it (no brake) and it would smoke first gear, click second, and keep smoking some more (about 70 - 80mph on the speedo) then it would start getting traction, drop down to about 40mph on the speedo and accelerate off.
I sold that engine turn key for $2000 - $2500 (I can't remember exactly).
Extractors, $500, full 2.5" mandrel bent stainless system, $1200, convertor, under $1000, mild reco of the c4 $1000.

The 390 is only of value, if it was originally in the car, and you want to keep it original.

[68pony]

Originally posted by stangLover
.........if we really must put a budget on it, lets say about 10grand......what would be the best option for that sort of $$
No need to worry about brakes or suspension.
Just motor and say a matching gearbox.

Baz talk to chris sinclair , its not just about how much the motor is , you have to factor labour costs aswell , chris can give you a ball park figure on a 351 stroker fitted , then you can go from there , when i hurt my 351w there was no way i was going to stay 351 , in came the 408 and i LOVE IT! , if you don't have the funds ,then wait till you do ,there is nothing wrong with the donk in it now so whats the rush
Oh i know you herd all those big motors on sunday at la perouse , that can have a bad effect on a man's sanity :w

[stangLover]

hehe....Spot on Chris, driving to these events is seems to be more about "what's under the hood"....
But I am patient and I will wait for the right momment just like I did to transform the rust bucket into what it is today.
I posted this as I value many of your opions and expertise and when the time is right, I wanted to be confident that I made an informed decision:(

[non member]

Originally posted by stangLover
.........if we really must put a budget on it, lets say about 10grand......what would be the best option for that sort of $$
No need to worry about brakes or suspension.
Just motor and say a matching gearbox.

10K will not do it. You have to buy the big block, trans (auto I am now assuming) auto X member, 9" rear. Then you get to rebuild all 3 main pieces, along with the carby & distributor, none of them cheap as they are US based parts. Also get new driveshaft (tailshaft) made, new exhaust system. I do not see much change out of 20K (if any) as you need someone to do the work & it is specialised.

If you got the 289 (in the car now I assume) rebuilt to sound tough, solid lifters, cam etc., so it sounds like a K engine, then the rest of the drivetrain can stay as it is. Lets face it, you are not going to race it, just the pose factor, so stroking is irrelevant to you (I meant that in the the sense of stroking the engine, for all the deviates out there..:*)

Last bonus by rebuilding the current engine, you don't have to change the engine #, so no visits to the RTA.

[BLKPNY]

If you want to be the tuffest kid on the block, use an aftermarket 289/302 block and build a 380 cube motor.
Will look the same as every one elses 289/302/330/347 but more! You may want to revise your budget though...


Is a 9" required for just a 390? I would think the 8" with an LSD would be more than up to the task.

[MustangMedic]

I'm reading you Kerry, thats the direction I will probably go(most likley with Nuts help) the 289 can still push the car along and still sound good if done and planned the right way.
Baz has learned a lot from this thread but I'll be betting he is not the only one. C'mon fellas fess up every day is a school day. Kerry check your emails I'v sent you one.
Cheers.
Medic

[68pony]

Originally posted by ozbilt

Originally posted by stangLover
.........if we really must put a budget on it, lets say about 10grand......what would be the best option for that sort of $$
No need to worry about brakes or suspension.
Just motor and say a matching gearbox.

10K will not do it. You have to buy the big block, trans (auto I am now assuming) auto X member, 9" rear. Then you get to rebuild all 3 main pieces, along with the carby & distributor, none of them cheap as they are US based parts. Also get new driveshaft (tailshaft) made, new exhaust system. I do not see much change out of 20K (if any) as you need someone to do the work & it is specialised.

If you got the 289 (in the car now I assume) rebuilt to sound tough, solid lifters, cam etc., so it sounds like a K engine, then the rest of the drivetrain can stay as it is. Lets face it, you are not going to race it, just the pose factor, so stroking is irrelevant to you (I meant that in the the sense of stroking the engine, for all the deviates out there..:*)

Last bonus by rebuilding the current engine, you don't have to change the engine #, so no visits to the RTA.  

Kerry is right baz , you will need a bigger exhaust and definatly a stronger TAIL SHAFT , as for nine inch i dont have one, but this one was rebuit about 3 years ago and mines a auto , autos are less savage on the drive line, spend that 10k on your engine , cam , comp , and exhaust will give it that tough sound you want and dress it up with abit of crome

[FST68]

if you have to factor in labour 10K wont be enough for the big block conversion. and also likly still fall short on a 351 storker as well.

something to consider is the purchase of a crate motor from Jegs or similar in the us it often worsk out cheaper / better to import someting and fit it them to do major works on an existing motor.

I will give you an example a few weeks ago Jegs were advertising 408 500hp strokers 50 of for $7k a piece, it costs about $800 for shipping plus import duties which will basically equate to 10k

if you were to go down the line of getting a decent performance shop to build you a strong 408 they would charge the likes of 12 - 15k+ and you have all the uncertanty of additional machining because they encountered a problem etc.

[shaunp]

Also have you considered freshing the 289, and banging a Paxton Blow through kit on it, look good, sounds good goes good, and has a Wow factor when you pop the hood and it has a nice polished blower on it. These will cost abot $4k for the kit, plus a 650 DP and a freshen up on the 289. You coould run it with your current box or stick a TL behind it pretty easy, be less than 10K all up and you can say Mate it's got a paxton blower on it, which was a Shelby option in 60's.
It will have nice fat torque of the line and if you don't give it heaps of boost the engine dosen't need to be very trick at all. The blower kit will work on other small blocks you may fit down the track. You could even buy a cheap roller 302 engine out of a Falcon and smack it on that
http://www.paxtonauto.com/product.php?id=111

[stangLover]

i hear you all, but I heard it from the "horses mouth", I was qouted $10k to build me a 408!