EFI to Carb

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Author Topic: EFI to Carb  (Read 10597 times)

Offline DV8

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EFI to Carb
« on: July 07, 2009, 12:02:40 am »
Just thought I'd share a couple of lessons learned.
1. I recently bought a clapped-out 5.0 EFI short block (no EFI) and am in the process of assembling after machining. I want to run this engine with a carburettor so I need to change the timing cover to accept accept mechanical fuel pump ( best advice was to go mechanical). This also means I need to fit an eccentric to the cam to drive the fuel pump. Ford had two designs, an early one piece and later a two piece design. I figured the two piece would best suit the later model engine I have, unfortunately I have also fitted an aftermarket timing set and the diameter of the boss on the cam sprocket doesn't allow the two piece design to work, so now I have fit the one piece eccentric (cheaper than machining the sprocket).
:_:_

2. Tom Monroe's "bible" on how to rebuild Ford smallblocks tells me to fit the oil slinger onto the crankshaft, which puzzled me because I didn't remove one when I dis-assembled the engine. A quick check on the Ford Muscle forum reveals that they weren't used on late model EFI engines with a few stating "you don't need them, they're only needed to lubricate mechanical fuel pump eccentrics......"
:_:_
There still seems to be some question as to whether the oil slinger will even fit with the double row timing chain, I guess I'll find out soon.

Mike :o:2

Offline soc123_au

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« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2009, 09:01:58 am »
If it were me, I would go with a Holley Blue fuel pump & use the existing timing cover & assemble the bottom end as it was. Why did they advise mechanical fuel pump? I am interested in the reasoning behind this. Sometimes I think it better not to reinvent the wheel.

Offline DV8

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« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2009, 09:10:15 am »
Can't off hand remember all the reasoning, got it from a few sources. Thought it would be simpler not having a regulator and emergency cut-off, and not having the pump run every time ignition is switched on. In theory it wasn't supposed to be re-inventing the wheel, just applying proven technology to a modern block. In hindsight you could be right, at least I can still go down that path.

Cheers,
Mike.

Offline 66FBK

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EFI to Carb
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2009, 09:11:09 am »
Mike, I am running a 5l roller motor and used an early one piece timing chain cover with the cam eccentric for the fuel pump. I didn't use an oil slinger and things are fine. I suppose there would be plenty of oil being thrown around by the chain to lubricate the fuel pump cam. I did see a neat setup on the weekend on a 5l motor that kept the original water pump but used a much shorter serpentine belt. It went around the crank to alt, underneat the water pump pulley up to the A/C and back to the crank with a tensioner in there somewhere. You still need an electric fuel pump though. I like old school. Simple, cheaper easy.
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Offline DV8

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« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2009, 09:21:04 am »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure I also need to locate the dipstick at the front to suit "front" sump that I need to use, which requires a change in timing cover anyway.

Mike.

Offline non member

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« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2009, 09:35:08 am »
Yes true, the dipstick needs to change to the front. Don't forget to plug the old dipstick hole. I have seen many that forgot.

Easy to do when the sump is off as the timing case casting was still the same without the hole.

Offline 66FBK

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« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2009, 09:36:38 am »
I used the original 5l sump as it was the right shape. It depends on what the motor came out of. Some 302 blocks have the dip stick coming out of the lower block, some have the stick coming out of the timing chain cover also. If you use the oringinal sump you with need to bend the dip stick a little and modify the bracket as they swing out fairly wide. The dip stick is the only tell tale sign that the motor is a roller 5l  if I spot one.










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Offline 67TTCoupe

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« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2009, 10:11:45 am »
so whcih models im assuming falcons came with the rolla cam etc.....

66FB the engine picture is that a rolla cam version?

im looking at getting one for my 67. getting mixed info on which one of the 5L came with rolla cams. AU XR8 s3, tS50 etc or how the wreckers say the 220kw donk which apperently came out in few models...? ? ?

i would go electric pump any day. that mech conversion seem like a big pain in the backside to me.

most holley pumps come with regulator expecialy the above mentioned holley blue. also they quite affordable and rebuildable afterwards.






Offline 66FBK

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« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2009, 10:34:47 am »
They started the roller cam motor in the US in about '85. These were basic EFI units. Australian Falcon/ Fairlanes from '93 (I think )were roller motors. These were all US made 5L EFI motors. If you can pick up an AU Tickford motor, they have some goodies like yellatarra rollor rockers ( not to be confused with a roller cam, they are all roller cam) etc. The roller cam motors have a 50oz extn balance not 28oz for early Windsors) and use the 351W timing order so be careful when changing the flex plate/ harmonic balancer setup.
My motor is from a '94 Fairlane. You can pick up these for around $900 and have original bores for you to play with form the next 20 years. They also spin better. The change over to the older water pump & manual fuel pump setup takes about an hour & a new timing chain & water pump is something you would do anyway before re-installing. Keep in mind the original 5L water pumps spin the opposite way to the older windsor types so you will have to figure out a belt setup to run the new type.
He, with the most toys wins.

Offline DV8

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« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2009, 11:55:52 am »
The engine I bought was a real "dog's breakfast". It came with a 2 barrel manifold "sitting" on top. Double hump sump was loosely bolted on, oil pump shaft floating around inside, oil pump loosely bolted & no pickup.
As near as I can tell, motor came from F100 or similar.'89 casting date, roller style block but NOT fitted with roller cam, which I believe was normal practise for "truck" engines. Appears dipstick entry is through the block on the left hand side towards the rear, not thru the sump as on 66FKK's photo's. In hindsight, probably not my smartest purchase but I'll still get it running for less than a reco'd 302 crate motor and have the engine spec I want.

Mike.

Offline 67TTCoupe

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« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2009, 11:58:17 am »
cheers 66fbk so the tickford one is to go for. cool.

i can pick up a low km i think 66k 220kw tickford out of Au3 xr8 for 2.5k with all wiring and electrical etc.... gbox i think was little bit extra.but im sure i can get the box thrown in if im more persistant.


Offline dndhot

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« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2009, 02:07:21 pm »
I got  a 96 xr 8 roller cam motor it was cheap but i did a full rebuild with a 347 stroker kit and also new cam etc.  you   should be able to get a sump like this. as for the fuel pump it is better and easier to go electric. Try a carter fuel pump the lower spec ones don't need a regulator and a much quieter than a holley pump. unless you are running really big hp that is all you would need.  
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Offline hybrid

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EFI to Carb
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2009, 02:55:40 pm »
Yeah I wouldn't stuff around converting to a mechanical pump personally. Its a step backwards in my opinion.
Holley pumps are noisey bastards.
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Offline Mylittlepony1966

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Re: EFI to Carb
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2023, 07:48:08 am »
Good morning  all.

Ack this is an old thread. I am in process of building a Roller myself. I am getting so much conflicting info.
Currently have 289
Purchased 5.0L Roller (GT40P heads)
Want to keep carby set up
No serpentine belts
AC & PS
Behind C4 Auto
Need to change timing cover
New Dizzy
Fuel pump either manual/elect
Block dipstick
Balancer/flexplate

Been told C4 won't handle a stroker ???
Issues with timing marks due to the change???
Anything else?
Starting to wonder if the Roller is worth it.

Offline 1965 fastback

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Re: EFI to Carb
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2023, 08:19:00 am »
I’ve done this swap and I think you have covered nearly everything.

Reverse water pump might affect your radiator hose input/output location but I’m sure you can find a solution.

I think the roller swap is worth it. Remember it is a 30 year newer block and still an almost identical windsor. That counts for something.

Offline GEOFF289

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Re: EFI to Carb
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2023, 12:56:29 pm »
Good morning  all.

Ack this is an old thread. I am in process of building a Roller myself. I am getting so much conflicting info.
Currently have 289
Purchased 5.0L Roller (GT40P heads)
Want to keep carby set up
No serpentine belts
AC & PS
Behind C4 Auto
Need to change timing cover
New Dizzy
Fuel pump either manual/elect
Block dipstick
Balancer/flexplate

Been told C4 won't handle a stroker ???
Issues with timing marks due to the change???
Anything else?
Starting to wonder if the Roller is worth it.

I have those heads on mine. Just be aware that the plug angle makes the already tight between the shock towers situation of a '66 even tighter. You need very specific headers for this application. I have the relevant JBA ones on mine, I can get the part number if you want it. Original or repo hipo manifolds will fit too. Nothing else will. Put some iridium plugs in it so you pretty much never have to change them.