Answer found!: No spark with ICE ignition & points short out ignition wires and

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Author Topic: Answer found!: No spark with ICE ignition & points short out ignition wires and  (Read 4342 times)

Offline Edz

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I'm having trouble getting my motor running after fitting an MSD Atomic efi. It only handles fuel and the ICE ignition handles spark.

Part A:

The ICE ignition was running perfectly when the motor was running 12 months ago before I fitted the MSD.

Wiring: I have a brand new ICE ignition wiring harness connected externally to take this out of the equation. It has 2 wires running to the coil, 3 wires on a plug to connect the distributor and an earth to the engine block. I also have a second brand new ignition box to test with. I have a direct wire feed from the battery to take that out of the equation, pink wire long gone.

When I kick it over, I get spark once (timing light and external spark plug). She fires and then shuts down after about 2 or 3 seconds. Then when I crank it again I get nothing. I then wait 5 minutes and it repeats this.

I've left the ignition on and checked the temp of the hall effect switch in the dissy and it's 21 deg max.

I've connected a Bosch coil I had (at Michael from ICE's recommendation), same thing happens.

Part B:

Now I've put a Motorcraft Points dizzy in to test if it's the ICE playing up and I'm having trouble with that.

I have the Bosch coil wired to the positive and negative wires coming off the points.

My problem is, when I put positive to the positive terminal on the coil with the points closed I get a dead short. The wire going into the dissy starts to smoke and it even trips a 30amp breaker?

I've tested the points out of the dissy and they don't short internally?

I'm pulling my hair out!
« Last Edit: February 19, 2023, 12:10:46 am by Edz »
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Offline jiffy

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the last situation you describe suggests that the coil is expecting a ballast resistor to be in series with the coil specifically to prevent this occurring.

Is the electronic module you have for the distributor also expecting 12v, or about 7v (i.e. is it expecting a ballast resistor too?)

This is unlikely to solve the starting issue but should resolve the fuse-blowing issue.
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Offline Edz

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the last situation you describe suggests that the coil is expecting a ballast resistor to be in series with the coil specifically to prevent this occurring.

Is the electronic module you have for the distributor also expecting 12v, or about 7v (i.e. is it expecting a ballast resistor too?)

This is unlikely to solve the starting issue but should resolve the fuse-blowing issue.

I've tried 3 coils, two Boschs and an MSD and all have the same problem. None of them are the 'R' type so they don't want a resistor?

The electronic module is a complete ICE ignition package. I bench tested it and it produces a hot spark so I'll put it back in the car and try again.
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Offline jiffy

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Are you sure that having a 'R' means they don't want a resistor?

I would have thought that an 'R' means they HAVE a resistor in them, therefore, don't need one.
Not having a 'R' would imply that a resistor is needed (externally, or in the harness).

also would explain what you're seeing with the fuses blowing
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Jiffy,
The ICE wiring details that you must NOT use a ballast resistor circuit, their system needs full voltage.

Edz,
have you talked to ICE ignition about how to correctly wire an MSD atomic in with their system ?   Reading the instructions on the MSD there are some wiring concerns about how to connect the coil dependant on what sort of ignition you are running. It does say failure to setup correctly could damage the MSD ECU.   Id be checking with Michael and the guys at ICE , you may have wired the MSD atomic up incorrectly.

Mark

Offline Edz

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Jiffy,
The ICE wiring details that you must NOT use a ballast resistor circuit, their system needs full voltage.

Edz,
have you talked to ICE ignition about how to correctly wire an MSD atomic in with their system ?   Reading the instructions on the MSD there are some wiring concerns about how to connect the coil dependant on what sort of ignition you are running. It does say failure to setup correctly could damage the MSD ECU.   Id be checking with Michael and the guys at ICE , you may have wired the MSD atomic up incorrectly.

Mark

Checked the coils I have and they are non-resistor type.

I've given up on the points dizzy.

Talked to Michael when I first had problems and he suggested I try the Bosch coil I had (pic below of the type I tried). I wanted to make sure it wouldn't damage the ICE ignition computer.

The ICE is very easy to wire, two wires labelled for the coil, one 3 pin plug for the distributor and an earth wire that must go to the engine. There are 2 other wires on mine for tacho and two-step rev limiting.

I initially thought it might be the harness I had wired in so now all my testing is with a brand new, spare harness I have and no change.
I'm connecting the coil/ICE Ignition power feed to a direct feed from the battery.

I've pulled the dizzy and connected it to a sparkplug that was sitting out and earthed.
If I connect it to the coil and spin the dizzy, I get a continuous series of fat sparks (the coil/box uses 7 amps).

If I just connect the plug to a lead from the dizzy, I get a single spark every rotation.
Now the dizzy is in, I still get the single spark for each rotation during cranking.

Now that I've put it all back, when I kick it in the guts, it fires up once each time and then shuts off straight off. I can hear the fuel pump kick in and shot off when the computer turns it off.
At least now I get spark all the time.

I checked the diagnostics on the MSD hand controller and it says all ok?

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Offline Edz

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So I thought I'd post the solution to my problem to help others who end up in the same place?

So after 3 1/2 months of frustration, my Mustang finally fired into life with the MSD Atomic EFI 2910 Throttle Body, thanks to the help of my mate Craig in the ACT Street Machine Car Club.

I'm running the MSD Atomic EFI 2910 Throttle Body and ICE ignition and for the last few months it would fire once and shut off and wouldn't fire for 5 mins. Michael at ICE kept telling me to pull the efi off and use a carby since it was running with a carby before.

I fitted the spare ICE harness I had, one kick and shuts off. But at least it would continually do this, obviously I've damaged the original ICE harness with cutting and lengthening it to try and mount it in the car away from water.

I fitted the carby this week and it fired right up so I know the ICE wasn't the problem.

However, when I removed the throttle body, the 3 wires in the tach in and out plug fell out of the plug, this explains why it was getting no signal.

I refitted the efi and again, fires once, then dies, no timing signal, even though it was wired up. I back probed the plug and found a high resistance through the plug so I pulled out the tach pin and plugged it together outside of the 3 pin plug. Fired up, showed a tach signal, but as soon as I let the starter button go, it died, no signal. Bought a Jaycar Multimeter that measures HZ and same thing, no signal once I let the start button go.

I hotwired everything directly to a battery - MSD, coil, ICE - no difference.

Then I rang my mate Craig who's installed 20 of these and he said 'run the msd tach wire directly to the negative of the coil'. I did it while he was on the phone as I was leaning over the engine bay and it fired up and ran!

I'll be blowed!

So now rough wiring in the new second ICE harness.
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