Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?

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Author Topic: Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?  (Read 6792 times)

Offline DGC66

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Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?
« on: December 12, 2022, 06:02:17 pm »
hi,

Im in Melbourne and have had my 66 coupe for many years, about 7 years ago it was painted and after bringing it home and putting some wheels back under it, progress came to a halt and it has been dormant while life has been in the way. I'm finally getting back onto it to finish the job.

As the topic states, I am hoping some experienced people can advise me about new brake and fuel hard lines for my car.
I have been out of it for a long time now, but what i do remember from when i was working on the car, is that it was really hard to find properly fitting, quality reproduction parts for these cars.

I am hoping anyone who has purchased and fitted the pre-formed and flared lines, can share their experience. Where did you source them from, what make are they, did they fit properly or not?
This is a ground up restoration (good quality but not worried about full concourse). So I just want to work out whether the pre-made lines fit to the car at least as well as the originals did or if i need to go down the path of making them up from scratch?

cheers,

Dan

Offline pmb0186

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Re: Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2022, 12:58:31 pm »
I had a look into it and the price of tools turned me off.
There is a place in Adelaide that will flare and fit ends to shaped lines or you get ends fitted then shape.
does anyone remember laughter

Offline Dwayne

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Re: Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2022, 07:30:46 pm »
I had a look into it and the price of tools turned me off.
There is a place in Adelaide that will flare and fit ends to shaped lines or you get ends fitted then shape.

Is that PBR in Gilles Plains?

Offline Dingo80

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Re: Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2022, 11:02:10 am »
I bought a complete classic tube kit from US. Can't remember if it was from Summit or direct from Classic Tube. Came all folded up in box and labelled where it was folded for shipping. Good quality product but I didn't like the way some of them ran mainly from brake booster to front RHS along firewall. I used the rear line across diff and the line from rear to firewall, then I made made the rest myself. I splashed out and bought a trade quality flaring tool. Cost me $400 I think. Finished all my lines etc and then sold it for $350. $50 to get a quality job done is worth it in my opinion. Those flaring block jobs are crap I reckon in repetitive quality and I am a fridgy by trade so flaring is something I do all the time.

Offline jiffy

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Re: Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2022, 02:13:49 pm »
Damn - I just bought one of those crappy clamping flare jobs yesterday! Wish I’d seen this post beforehand…😞
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Offline Dingo80

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Re: Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2022, 02:22:28 pm »
They can be ok depending on how good they clamp the line but you usually find they don't and there is not a lot of leverage so it is easy to stuff the flare up too.
 The vice mounted ones are best similar to below
https://aeroflowperformance.com/af98-2048-single-and-double-flare-tool

I tried a hydraulic kinda hand pump one too but didn't get as consistent flares.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2022, 02:24:10 pm by Dingo80 »

Offline DGC66

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Re: Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2022, 03:50:36 pm »
Thanks for the feed back.
As I want to upgrade to a non boosted dual bowl master cylinder, I will have to make up some of my own lines anyway.
Any recommendations on a good tube bender?
Can anyone tell me what the correct dual bowl master cylinder would be for non boosted factory disc/drums in a 66 coupe?

Offline Reborn67

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Re: Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2022, 05:40:03 pm »
Hey there, l have no idea how to post links ( love anyones advise on that one) but look up west coast classic cougars YouTube site and click onto their videos, there is one about Power brake boosters etc for Mustangs/Cougars, if nothing it’s an interesting watch, Reborn..,

Offline Reborn67

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Re: Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2022, 05:45:48 pm »
Sorry there, just done a quick look to refresh my memory and it’s for 67 onward so it’s probably not appropriate, still on interesting watch..,

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2022, 06:07:56 pm »
Hey there, l have no idea how to post links ( love anyones advise on that one) but look up west coast classic cougars YouTube site and click onto their videos, there is one about Power brake boosters etc for Mustangs/Cougars, if nothing it’s an interesting watch, Reborn..,
Hey Reborn.
YouTube, go SHARE, COPY LINK, then paste where you want!

I can’t copy photos with my new IPad, old Samsung no problem, it’s got something about apple and jpg.?

Cheers Phil.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2022, 06:21:46 pm by AussiePhil »
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But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

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Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2022, 06:19:05 pm »
Hey all,
I know they are expensive but RIGID are fabulous double and single flaring tools.
Cheap benders are ok, use a lubricant to stop scouring.
CheersPhil.
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Two for one is good but four for two is better!

Offline DGC66

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Re: Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2022, 08:23:39 pm »
I'll be checking out those flaring tools, thanks for the tip about bending.
I've seen a few videos (from usa) showing brake line and master cylinder upgrades. They're pretty informative but I haven't been able to get any specific details to spec the appropriate master cylinder yet. They generally just refer to them by year of mustang they came stock on.
But I will watch the video about the 67 when I get the chance anyway, the more info the better.

Cheers

Offline Dingo80

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Re: Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2022, 09:06:05 pm »
I installed a XA-XC dual master cylinder with gemini booster as have disc front, drum rear. Only issue is the fittings are on the RHS so custom lines are a must and my rocker cover was very close before the custom lines. Needed to use 90 degree banjo fittings. In my opinion benders are benders and Rigid are not entirely necessary unless doing all day, every day. I have a cheap set of 1/4" and 3/16' bender that have worked really well. I don't believe it is the benders, it is understanding where the centre of the bend will be according to the die. Practise a few bends first before doing the real ones. I have marked my bend centre line on die in texta to make sure I get it every time. Flaring tool is far more important. Also buy more brake line than you need as it is cheap. I admittedly remade one line 3 times as I wasn't happy but OCD does that.

Similar to this and it has worked fine
 https://www.catch.com.au/product/ab-tools-bergen-brake-pipe-bender-bending-tool-3-16-1-4-5-16-3-8-at146-2910105/
« Last Edit: December 14, 2022, 09:08:03 pm by Dingo80 »

Offline DGC66

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Re: Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2022, 10:16:00 pm »
Your set up looks great. Nothing wrong with OCD.
What happens with push rod length, distribution block and proportioning valve when changing to the Gemini booster with that master cylinder?


Offline pmb0186

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Re: Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2022, 10:42:29 pm »
Correct PBR
does anyone remember laughter

Offline Dingo80

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Re: Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2022, 10:59:20 am »
Your set up looks great. Nothing wrong with OCD.
What happens with push rod length, distribution block and proportioning valve when changing to the Gemini booster with that master cylinder?

I am not 100% sure about pushrod length as my 65 coupe came with XF disc front and the gemini booster already, can't remember the master on it. I can't remember why I took it to a brake joint in Perth but they suggested the XA-XC master. They gave me the booster back with master fitted. I believe the master already has the proportioning valve in it and has 3 ports. 2 side ones you can see in picture with banjo's are for the front and there is one that comes out the bottom to go to the rears.

Offline DGC66

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Re: Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2022, 12:21:12 pm »
Ok that makes sense now. I like the idea of the simplified plumbing.
I am wondering, as my car has never been registered in Australia, what are the rules regarding modding the brake system when it comes to getting it on the road? Am I asking for trouble going away from stock? Maby engineer report required? (I assume this is a state (Vic) specific issue)

Offline Gallop

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Re: Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2022, 02:30:09 pm »
Regarding a dual master cylinder, many of the suppliers will have one for a non-boosted factory disc/drums in a 66 coupe.

For example: https://www.npdlink.com/1965-1973-mustang/brake-wheel/master-cylinder/dual-bowl-master-cylinder-conversion?year=1966

Australian suppliers will probably have the same.

Offline Edz

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Re: Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2022, 11:00:56 pm »
Adding a dual circuit master is a great safety upgrade.

However, if you do it, you legally then do need engineering because you have changed the braking system.

As for brake lines, first time around I bent mine and then took them to a brake place to have the flares done, wasn't that expensive.

Last time I had a mate do them all at my house who used to work in a brake place. He had the $800 hydraulic flaring kit and it did a beautiful job.
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Offline SMH00N

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Re: Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2022, 03:44:05 pm »
I did buy one of the good flarers like the Aeroflow one (note; many many suppliers sell this same type so as long as it looks like that one with the dies, buy the cheapest one available).
I then made up all my lines. As I used a Falcon MC on the original booster, the original lines were not an option, and cutting, flaring and bending myself was a must.
It's a skill to bend them as Dingo states, but tube is cheap.
I also have a hand-held bender similar to what's been suggested and they work very well. Nice sharp bends if needed, or smooth curves when not.
For the fuel, I bought alloy pipe from Rocket/Aeroflow and ran that through. Not needing originality but diameter. 1 piece did my supply and return (I have Holley Sniper EFI)

I have a new, fitted once-to-test 69-70 dual line MC here looking for a new owner if you are in the market for one :)

I did get the Classic Tube kit when I was looking at keeping the original MC, but for some reason I didn't rate them but it was some years back I did it.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2022, 03:46:29 pm by SMH00N »

Offline DGC66

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Re: Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2022, 04:05:35 pm »
After considering everyone's advice, i think my best option is to get the pre made lines and just modify/make new ones to suit the m/c to distribution block and proportioning valve. With the stock set up I had, all mounted in original positions, the manual dual cct m/c shouldn't change things too much. I am thinking of going to a 3/8 fuel line from tank to pump though. Not because it will need it, but just for future proofing and so I don't waste the money spent on the 5/16 if I ever do decide to upgrade.
Can anyone tell me if the common securing fasters for brake and fuel line together will still work with the 3/8 line?

Cheers

Offline trav68

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Re: Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2022, 03:17:29 pm »
Copper nickel tube akso makes the job easier although bit more expensive. Flares and bends easily.

Offline jiffy

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Re: Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2023, 11:35:11 pm »
where's the best place to buy the brake line from?
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Offline AussiePhil

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Re: Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2023, 06:05:48 am »
Hey jiffy,
Do you have a Brake Pro near you.
I’ve found them very good.
Cheers Phil.
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Two for one is good but four for two is better!

Offline Clubman7

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Re: Brake and Fuel Hardline Advice?
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2023, 12:36:46 pm »
Have bought brake tubing from Repco in the past.