302 windsor from el falcon in my 66 gt

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Author Topic: 302 windsor from el falcon in my 66 gt  (Read 4911 times)

Offline jezzas

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302 windsor from el falcon in my 66 gt
« on: September 14, 2022, 01:04:01 pm »
Hello brains trust !
Ive had a 302 roller engine out of an el falcon rebuilt almost ready to go into my 66 coupe
The heads seem to be the  E7TE-PA 5.0L so a set of try y headers with a drop down bracket for my power steering should be fine
Am going to use electric fuel pump to avoid engine alterations
The builder cannot put the engine in so im trying to iron out a few things b4 i take it to another mechanic to install
My questions are
1:what do i need to consider with the timing gear and cover as i would like to use my orginal alternator and power steering pump
2:apart from a new 50 oz balancer what do i need to consider for using my orginal starter motor to hook this engine up to my orginal c4 auto
thanks
no worries easy as  5 minute job baha

Offline GEOFF289

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Re: 302 windsor from el falcon in my 66 gt
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2022, 07:05:20 pm »
I think your engine originally ran a serpentine belt system with the water pump running in reverse compared to the 289 your car rolled out of the factory with so you'll need a different timing cover and associated bits and pieces. Presumably you're running a carb rather than the Falcon EFI? If so I'm not sure an electric fuel pump is the best idea. They generally pump way more than the carb will need and would need to be regulated down quite a bit.

As well as a 50 ounce balancer, which your EL engine will have come with, you'll need a matching flex plate at the other end of the crank.



« Last Edit: September 15, 2022, 07:04:44 am by GEOFF289 »

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: 302 windsor from el falcon in my 66 gt
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2022, 08:24:58 pm »
Hey Jezza,
Yes, Geoff is right, they did run serpentine belts and reverse flow water pumps.
You will need the Australian 5L Timing chain cover, but you should be able to run a normal rotation water pump to suit your brackets. I’ve seen a few XR8 engines in mustangs with V belts.
Technically a normal rotation water pump flows better with these covers, Ford never bothered to correct the water flow path of the cover. If you look into it you’ll see what I mean! You’ll find it easy to find water pump gaskets, I needed to get mine from the US.
I’ve got the American engine, they are different timing chain covers.
The later 5.0 Windsor engines also have 351W ignition firing order, 13726548.
I use a Low pressure 5-7 psi Goss GE393 to supply my surge tank, you may be able to use one of those. (Mr Gasket or Carter, same thing) You’ll need to run it close to your fuel tank!
Hope I’ve helped not confused.
Cheers Phil.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2022, 08:31:02 pm by AussiePhil »
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

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Offline AussiePhil

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Re: 302 windsor from el falcon in my 66 gt
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2022, 08:50:07 pm »
Hey Jezza,
If I was to ever do another late model 5L engine again I would change it to Carburettor also.
Firstly the ECU can’t adjust to modifications, no sensors to fail and the intake manifolds on these engines are butt ugly.
And arguably it’s cheaper to get good Horsepower.
Cheers Phil.
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Two for one is good but four for two is better!

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: 302 windsor from el falcon in my 66 gt
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2022, 06:04:56 am »
Hey Jezza,
This is the timing chain cover for FORD FALCON EB - AU 5.0lt 5.8lt WINDSOR BRAND NEW TIMING COVER # F1SE-6059
But now not sure you can fit a normal rotation water Pump?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/143978526954

You may have to see if you can fit an early 302 timing chain cover?

My cover is rf-e5ae-6059-fa, no pointer or mechanical fuel pump.

PM Bigal, he will know for sure!

Cheers Phil.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2022, 06:29:44 am by AussiePhil »
If you've never buggered anything you've never done anything!
But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

Two for one is good but four for two is better!

Offline jezzas

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Re: 302 windsor from el falcon in my 66 gt
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2022, 10:43:04 am »
thanks PHil and everyone else .
I have confirmed with the engine builder he has fitted the front of the engine to suit the old style roation for v belt setup
Now looking at headers and just wondering if my old exhaust manifold would just bolt on ?
I did have a set of tri y headers sorted using a drop down bracket for my power steering ram , but now wondering if my orginal ones will fit
no worries easy as  5 minute job baha

Offline GEOFF289

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Re: 302 windsor from el falcon in my 66 gt
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2022, 08:49:02 am »
thanks PHil and everyone else .
I have confirmed with the engine builder he has fitted the front of the engine to suit the old style roation for v belt setup
Now looking at headers and just wondering if my old exhaust manifold would just bolt on ?
I did have a set of tri y headers sorted using a drop down bracket for my power steering ram , but now wondering if my orginal ones will fit

Will depend on what heads the engine has, I'm not sure what EL Falcons came with. One possibility is that it has GT40P heads like mine in which case the original cast manifolds won't fit due the plug angle and virtually all aftermarket headers won't fit either. I have some JBA headers on mine specifically made for those heads in a '64-66 Mustang. I can get you the model no. if it turns out you have these heads. Your only other option is the original hipo manifolds, repops obviously as real ones will be very exy.

Offline jezzas

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Re: 302 windsor from el falcon in my 66 gt
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2022, 09:33:47 am »
Thanks Geoff , have confirmed the heads are not the gt40p heads , they are stamped PA E7TE .
I got the tri ys anyway and hope i can work something out with them .

Been reading through the forums and one of the last little things im looking for is the correct flex plate . I have the old green dot c4 with everything in it standard and keep hearing i need an adapted smaller diameter flex plate ? in any case how is this going to affect my starter motor ! gees im down the rabbit hole now lol , i probably should have engaged with an installer that had more exp in old cars haha but its damn hard to find anyone to put this thing in lately !

i have a quick fuel carby that suggests starting at 6.5 psi , i found this fuel pump https://www.tuffcarparts.com.au/aeroflow-97gph-7-psi-red-electric-fuel-pump-af49-1
Its 7psi , should i go larger and buy a regulator so i could change carbys later on and thus enable to do more adjustment ?

Cheers again
Jezza

i think im almost there lol !
no worries easy as  5 minute job baha

Offline GEOFF289

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Re: 302 windsor from el falcon in my 66 gt
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2022, 11:15:22 am »
I should have read what you said about your heads in the first post. I think your old cast manifolds will fit on those.

If by green dot C4 you mean the large dot/small dot arrangement you just need a 157 tooth, 50 ounce flex plate. A quick bit of googling turned this up which I don't reckon is a bad price.

https://www.carmodsaustralia.com.au/157-tooth-50oz-external-balance-flexplate-ford-302

I still reckon an electric fuel pump is unnecessary and more trouble than its worth, lots of people find them too noisy unless they're an in tank one. You need all the wiring, including a device to kill it if the car is inverted in a prang, and you'll have to ensure your alternator can keep up with it. You'll never need more than 7 PSI for any carb. I don't know what Quick Fuel you've got but most people (including me) have more CFM than this little Windsors need unless they're built for very big hp.

Offline jezzas

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Re: 302 windsor from el falcon in my 66 gt
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2022, 03:53:51 pm »
Aaesome cheers for that , yes i think i was looking at the same flex plate , good to know .
The reason i was planning on using an electric fuel pump was the engine was originally efi and being a roller cam i was under the impression some mods would need to be done to run a mechanical fuel pump ., i will hunt down an enertia cutitoff switch
The quick fuel carby i have is a 430 cfm so yes quite small .
Now hopefully i can just put a bronze gear on my old distributor and use that then upgrade later
Cheers again
no worries easy as  5 minute job baha

Offline GEOFF289

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Re: 302 windsor from el falcon in my 66 gt
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2022, 04:55:38 pm »
Aaesome cheers for that , yes i think i was looking at the same flex plate , good to know .
The reason i was planning on using an electric fuel pump was the engine was originally efi and being a roller cam i was under the impression some mods would need to be done to run a mechanical fuel pump ., i will hunt down an enertia cutitoff switch
The quick fuel carby i have is a 430 cfm so yes quite small .
Now hopefully i can just put a bronze gear on my old distributor and use that then upgrade later
Cheers again

Um, see if others agree but I think you need a steel distributor gear for a roller cam engine. A bronze one will be too soft and you'll be replacing it. In any event I'm not sure your old dizzy will fit. I think there are differences in shaft length and the size of the hex that mates with the oil pump. If you do get a new dizzy you'll need to bypass the ballast resistor in the ignition circuit.

I promise this is my last word on the electric fuel pump - surely if the engine guy has set it up for a v belt setup it'll have the provision for a mechanical fuel pump that will need a block off plate.

430 cfm is pretty much right on the money for a mild engine this size.

Offline jezzas

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Re: 302 windsor from el falcon in my 66 gt
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2022, 11:39:47 pm »
yeah Geoff sorry youre correct , i meant to say a steel gear for the roller cam \on the dizzy
WHen i orginally had this engine built i was fed some bs about him not wanting to do the mod to run a mechanical fuel pump
Since then ive learnt that it would just need a pump eccentric put on the  front of the cam , so now i need to check that the timing cover has a pump mount , if not ill get another one .
Just pssd me off when i asked for an engine that used a mechanical pump in the 1st place and now im gonna have to pay someone else to fix it to the way i want it .
THe reason this went on for so long as i was waiting for the builder to install it which never eventuated .
My new installer responded to questions about elec pump nad the likes with " ask the parts supplier , im not an expert on old cars " , so looks like im looking at another installer all over again ffs ....
no worries easy as  5 minute job baha

Offline jezzas

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Re: 302 windsor from el falcon in my 66 gt
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2022, 08:52:22 am »
Stop the press !
I've found a new mechanic that has done heaps of 5 litre roller windsors into my exact setup with mech fuel pumps and can do it soon !!
Hope my next update are pics with everything in and the old girl running again .
Thanks to everyone for the advice
no worries easy as  5 minute job baha