What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?

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Offline Monologue0442

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What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?
« on: July 12, 2022, 04:01:40 pm »
Guys, I'm looking at a 71 Mach 1, apparently matching numbers 429 CJ-R, 4 speed, power steering, sports interior option. Was restored a decade ago, resprayed a different colour, power windows and air con added, magnum 500s (not sure if real/fake), 9" LSD, looks to be a couple extras added (rear/front spoiler, side stripes, centre console, front seats retrimmed). Asking price is $140k. Frankly I have no idea if this in the ballpark or not. A quick search on Carsales suggests it's too high, so I thought I'd ask here.

Offline GEOFF289

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Re: What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2022, 07:23:13 pm »
All prices are high at the moment.

I don't know what it's worth but if by CJ-R you mean it has the Ram Air set up there weren't that many of them sold in '71, like low double digits. Notwithstanding the colour change, which I guess can be reversed, if its otherwise legit and the numbers match it could actually be a bargain.

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2022, 08:06:45 pm »
Hey Mono,

Agree with Geoff about car prices at the moment, but classic car prices may not go down like newer car prices.

Are you happy with the new colour?

A little dearer and my preference would be this one. IMO.
There is a few things IMO opinion I don’t like about 71 and up!


1970 Boss 302.
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/ford/mustang/boss-badge/

Cheers Phil.
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But if you've buggered a lot maybe you're not very good at it!

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Offline AussiePhil

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Re: What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2022, 08:14:17 pm »
Hey Mono,
Here is a cheaper Boss 302 at Broken Hill.

https://brokenhill.chaosads-australia.com/item/532081/

Cheers Phil.

Sorry, this is an old add!
Cheers Phil.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2022, 08:17:21 pm by AussiePhil »
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Offline GLENN 70

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Re: What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2022, 04:03:26 pm »
Even tho it’s a rare model ,429 manual ,the problem is it’s been repainted a different colour and the seat trim is wrong . Looks like a very nice car ,but cannot pull the high money because of these issues.  Value is up to the buyer on this one .

Offline jiffy

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Re: What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2022, 04:11:21 pm »
depends - a colour change can be a good thing, if the original colour was not a 'hero' shade (Grabber Blue, red, Black, Pewter etc) and was comparatively unloved (like spring-time yellow, or Ginger) then the colour change typically isn't a huge issue.

Same with the interior - maybe it was originally ginger, or Red, and someone changed it to black or white. Those things don't really HURT the value.

a 4-spd 429 is a cool car, check it's not a SCJ (3.91 or 4.11 rear axle ratio) because they're worth more.

$140K is a lot of money for one of those, but it depends on what spec it is now, and how nice condition it is...

Finally - there is NO WAY that this car https://brokenhill.chaosads-australia.com/item/532081/ is a legitimate sale, check out the surroundings, they aren't Broken Hill...
« Last Edit: July 14, 2022, 11:07:50 am by jiffy »
Black '69 CJ 4SPD car under construction (425/504)
Black 2002 SVT Cobra - 2003 Terminator Clone (575rwhp/716rwtq - SOLD)
Black ‘63.5 Galaxie 4SPD fastback (just you wait...)

Offline Monologue0442

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Re: What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2022, 08:16:14 am »
Thanks for the replies all. The car was originally light pewter metallic and has been repainted bright red. It's also had the side stripes and front and rear spoilers added - I don't have a problem with this. It was optioned with the mach 1 sports interior and it appears to be all original except for the front seats which have been retrimmed with red highlights - I'd want to restore these to the original trim. Diff was a 3.5 open according to the marti report but has been changed to a 3.5 LSD.

This car is advertised as matching numbers too. I've seen pics of the VIN from the chassis and dash - these match. The numbers off the engine and transmission match with the exception of the last digit - the actual VIN ends in 1 while both these end in 3. I'm not sure what to think here - I asked on another forum and was told that the engines/transmissions were poorly stamped, often with mistakes, illegible or missing digits. Has anyone else heard this? Given the it's just the last digit is incorrect I'm leaning towards it being original.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2022, 08:56:03 am by Monologue0442 »

Offline jiffy

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Re: What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2022, 11:13:18 am »
If the digits on the engine/trans are one digit off, then it's not numbers matching.

the fable about stuff being incorrectly stamped is largely that - there were the odd things that changed or were got wrong, but if BOTH engine and trans have the same number, then the drivetrain has been swapped. The Ford factory will not have got this wrong, it's a huge issue if a car leaves the factory with the wrong engine in it (from a warranty perspective - as a minimum).

you can get a Marti report on the VIN number that currently exists on the engine/trans and that will tell you the story.

However, these cars are YEARS old, and the vast majority have had their drivetrain swapped out and it's not a huge issue and will only have a marginal effect on your cars value - just don't be mis-informed about the stamping anomaly.

shame about the colour change - one man's trash is another man's treasure - I really like Pewter Metallic.

However, some people like Royal Maroon on a '69 and I change mine from that to Black, so each to their own.



Black '69 CJ 4SPD car under construction (425/504)
Black 2002 SVT Cobra - 2003 Terminator Clone (575rwhp/716rwtq - SOLD)
Black ‘63.5 Galaxie 4SPD fastback (just you wait...)

Offline Monologue0442

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Re: What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2022, 12:08:39 pm »
Thanks for the info on the matching numbers. I think i'll let this one go. I'm happy to make concessions, but not for the price they're asking.

Offline hux

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Re: What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2022, 09:52:07 am »
This car is up on Carsales - I am guessing Kevin Marti will produce a new Door Sticker for you with whatever you ask as the colour is 3 - Bright Red where the production order shows light pewter.
Interesting about engine and trans numbers being out by 2 digits….it would be hard to imagine someone could find the car with the exact same engine and trans combo and be only 2 cars apart in VIN…that would be amazing.  Dealer might have ordered 2 identical cars at same time for stock blown engine so swapped over but even that you would think is unlikely?

The fold down seat is a fairly rare option in 71 - from memory the numbers of sports desk fold downs dropped dramatically from 69 onwards.  And adding to a 71-73 is not straight forward.

Offline Monologue0442

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Re: What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2022, 06:12:32 pm »
Yeah it's up on Carsales, heres the link: https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/1971-ford-mustang-mach-1-cobra-jet-manual/OAG-AD-20835404/?Cr=6

So what do you guys think it's worth? Colour changed, wheels changed, front seats retrimmed in wrong colour. Those are the glaring issues I can see. Engine bay looks fairly original, although from comparing photos with other ram air cars, the air cleaner might not be original either.

Offline fredm666

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Re: What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2022, 08:17:18 pm »
The ad’s description says car is in Perth, ad’s header says “NSW”.
Probably not a $139k car with all those changes…

On carsalses there is a very similar one at $175k. But another ‘71 Mach 1 (not cobra jet) at $93k, and a ‘73 Mach 1 at $70k
fred

Offline Monologue0442

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Re: What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2022, 10:03:49 pm »
I think $100k would be fair, but i doubt they'd drop it $40k.

The one for $175k was advertised at $195k for a few weeks and was dropped this week.

Offline hux

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Re: What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2022, 09:27:30 am »
Yeah it's up on Carsales, heres the link: https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/1971-ford-mustang-mach-1-cobra-jet-manual/OAG-AD-20835404/?Cr=6

So what do you guys think it's worth? Colour changed, wheels changed, front seats retrimmed in wrong colour. Those are the glaring issues I can see. Engine bay looks fairly original, although from comparing photos with other ram air cars, the air cleaner might not be original either.

If you could negotiate direct with owner not a dealer you might get it down?  But the VIN is probably more of an issue than colour, seats and wheels.   Red looks great on 71-73, although also a fan of the pewter on them as well.  If its for an investment, I wouldn’t buy it - needs to be 100%, if I just wanted a 429CJ 71 Mach 1 and think it looks great I would think about it.  If I was after an investment Mustang it would be something more like a 69/70 SCJ or Boss for that money.

Offline robster

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Re: What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2022, 07:28:51 pm »
First off, I’ve seen this car as well.  The 1971 Big Block cars are a select group of what we would call the ‘Holy Grail’ of classic Mustangs.  In fact, 1971 was a watershed year for the rarest performance Mustangs with the standard 429’s together with the CJ and SCJ options and the Boss 351 reputed to be the fastest of all the classic Mustangs. The Mustang in 1971 went out on a high at the end of the muscle car era.   And Imo, these 1971 to 1973 Mustangs are the most stunning of all, horn cars didn’t get any hornier than these years, especially if optioned right.

I feel somewhat qualified to give you advice as I have owned several classics including a ’65 vert, ’69 Mach 1 and a ’73 Mach1.  Did a lot of research on the ‘Long Nose Mustangs’ and found them to be better engineered than the earlier cars as the bodies are more solid which supports sturdier suspension mountings thus helping them handle and ride better than the earlier cars as well.  A bit more modern too as you would expect after six years of development.

This write up is taken from the ‘Mustang Specs’ website –
‘With the 427 and 428 engines history by 1971, the replacement 429 CJ engine was called for duty as the top Mustang engine. The 429 belonged to the Ford 385 Engine Series and as such, no parts were interchangeable with the older 428. Wider, larger, and heavier, the 429 would not readily fit into the 1970 Mustang engine compartment, which is one of the reasons why the 1971 Mustang got bigger. The cylinder block was a variation of the 429/460 block, of which the Boss 429 was also based on; the cylinder heads were similar to the 351 Cleveland in design. You could describe the 429 as a large Boss 302.
As equipped in the Mustang, the 429CJ came with four-bolt mains, forged rods and pistons, 11.3:1 compression ratio, a hydraulic cam, (similar to the Boss 429’s) very large ports and valves, and all 429CJs came with aluminium valve covers. The 429CJ came with a Rochester Quadrajet four-barrel carburettor, and some early units had adjustable valve trains.
The 429CJ became a 429SCJ if the Drag Pack option was ordered.  It consisted of a 3.91 or 4.30 rear axle ratio with Traction Lock or a 4.11 ratio with a Detroit Locker rear. It used a new thin wall casting block to keep the weight down, high-flow BOSS 302 style canted valves, and it could be bored out to over 500 cubic inches to keep professional racers happy. Some Mustangs with the Drag Pack also included an external engine oil cooler, though of a different design than previously used. The SCJ engine came with a Holley 780 cfm carburettor rather than the Rochester Quadrajet, a mechanical lifter camshaft and adjustable rocker arms'.

Production numbers make this a rare model -
J-code 429-4V CJ Ram Air V-8: 958 total
- 251 4-speeds:     7 hardtops, 1 Grandé, 9 SportsRoofs, 230 Mach 1's, 4 convertibles.  With only 230 Mach 1 specced like this, how many are left is a question, but this makes this car even more valuable and collectible guaranteed.

In terms of value, perfect cars, read concours are around US$100,000 (see link).  Convert that to Australian dollars with the exchange rate around 70 cents compared to the US dollar and you’re looking at a mint ’71 429CJ around mid $140k odd.  Import one and the price landed in Australia may be around $160k.  ’71 429SC Jet’s would be even more citing the above condition caveats.

https://www.topcarrating.com/1971-ford-mustang-mach-1-429-cobra-jet.php

So there you have it.  It seems this is a genuine ’71 429CJ car that’s priced reasonably.  Appears there are minor details that need attention but nothing that would dissuade me from looking further into this car.  The numbers matching aspect look ok but the drivetrain single digit anomalies would need further investigation.  Again, if it were me, I’d talk to a Mustang Owner’s Club of Australia Western Australia representative to look at it and ask questions although experts in the ’71 to ’73 cars are not as prevalent as people knowing the early cars.  The Victorian club president owns a ’72 and I have built up a fair degree of knowledge as I did a hell of a lot of research on these cars prior to purchasing my ’73 although we’re in Melbourne but would assist if I were in WA.  Funnily enough, I was only looking for Bright Red or Pewter Metallic cars myself as these colors really compliment that sleek design, moreso the fastbacks and verts.   Settled on a Bright Red ’73 Mach 1 also.

Hope that helps and good luck with the car if you wish to go further, I would suggest more research is needed as this may be a car that really is worth the trouble.  Certain these ‘Holy Grail Mustangs’  will be good investment material too if that’s your motivation as well.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2022, 07:31:12 pm by robster »

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2022, 08:41:47 pm »
Hey Guys,
You want a rare car here is a 429 Boss in the US in very poor condition, cost you as much to do it up.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304575361404

How does a car so rare get into this poor condition.

Cheers Phil.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2022, 06:10:02 am by AussiePhil »
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Offline fredm666

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Re: What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2022, 10:42:33 pm »
Hey Guys,
You what a rare car here is a 429 Boss in the US in very poor condition, cost you as much to do it up.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304575361404

How does a car so rare get into this poor condition.

Cheers Phil.

Rich owner that didn’t care?
fred

Offline fredm666

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Re: What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2022, 04:53:50 pm »
Yeah it's up on Carsales, heres the link: https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/1971-ford-mustang-mach-1-cobra-jet-manual/OAG-AD-20835404/?Cr=6

So what do you guys think it's worth? Colour changed, wheels changed, front seats retrimmed in wrong colour. Those are the glaring issues I can see. Engine bay looks fairly original, although from comparing photos with other ram air cars, the air cleaner might not be original either.

they dropped the price to $129k
fred

Offline fredm666

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Re: What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2022, 01:02:22 pm »
not a '71 as per original title, but here we have a '69 Boss 429: https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/1969-ford-mustang-boss-429-manual/OAG-AD-20686795/?Cr=60

but why a $500k car has that cheap radio?!?!?
fred

Offline GEOFF289

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Re: What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2022, 03:13:51 pm »
not a '71 as per original title, but here we have a '69 Boss 429: https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/1969-ford-mustang-boss-429-manual/OAG-AD-20686795/?Cr=60

but why a $500k car has that cheap radio?!?!?

I guess anyone with that sort of money could probably manage an upgrade to the sound system from the original but since its pretty much too valuable to actually drive anywhere I don't think I'd bother if I fell into that category.

This car is well known but rarely seen down here. The current owner has a few bob to his name and has or has had a number of very nice cars.

Offline fredm666

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Re: What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2022, 03:21:26 pm »
I guess anyone with that sort of money could probably manage an upgrade to the sound system from the original but since its pretty much too valuable to actually drive anywhere I don't think I'd bother if I fell into that category.

This car is well known but rarely seen down here. The current owner has a few bob to his name and has or has had a number of very nice cars.

If I fell in that category I'd change the radio with a NOS radio of the period, or at least a perfect reproduction.  :lol:
fred

Offline Monologue0442

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Re: What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2022, 08:20:46 am »
Anyone know much about this one https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/1971-ford-mustang-boss-manual/SSE-AD-5824328/?Cr=3

Genuine, restored Boss 351 and it's cheaper than the Mach 1. Not the original engine though.

Offline jiffy

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Re: What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2022, 09:56:04 am »
Great looking car and appears to be really good.

Dunno about the PO's assertion regarding the relative collectability of the car with a std-bore non-original engine compared to taking the original unit out to +0.030, but it wouldn't be a show-stopper for me with the car in this condition. Pricing would depend upon your appetite.
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Offline fredm666

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Re: What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2022, 02:41:33 pm »
Anyone know much about this one https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/1971-ford-mustang-boss-manual/SSE-AD-5824328/?Cr=3

Genuine, restored Boss 351 and it's cheaper than the Mach 1. Not the original engine though.

That car has been on the market for a year at least, I’m wondering why….
fred

Offline robster

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Re: What's a 71 Mach 1 worth?
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2022, 08:17:10 pm »
Yes, like fred666 said, it’s been on the market, not sure for a whole year, but I think it’s been on and off in that timeframe.  Don’t know if the seller is testing the market or there’s something more to it, like something’s wrong with the car.

For me, the Boss 351 is the Holy Grail of classic Mustangs, reputed to be the fastest factory Mustang down the quarter mile of all the classics.  And it was fitted with the best of everything Ford could put in it performance wise for one year only in 1971.  And it was styled and kitted out to look the business.  Or there was an equivalent in 1972 as well if you include the R code which was a Boss 351 without the name, perhaps to move the leftover Boss 351 parts after the insurance industry and stricter government legislation killed the pure performance cars from this era.  Much like the similar story we had here with the RPO83 Falcons after the Phase IV was killed off early in its development and the Phase parts were quietly transferred over to the RPO designated cars.

What interests me is that the seller boasts this is a show winning car as follows;
 ‘Multi award winning BOSS on two continents. Purpose built documented full up ground restoration. Built to original manufacturers spec’s and built to be a show winner. Three Gold MCA wins including last show in America 689 out of possible 700 points’. 
That alone would pique my interest and I would at least like to have a look at it and then drive it.
 
Like I said in my previous post, these Mustang years 1971 to 1973 are the best driving classic Mustangs and the Boss 351, if this one is as mechanically sound as it’s advertised, would be even better still.  However, I note the original engine has been replaced and appreciate the seller’s honesty as matching numbers cars are terribly important in this rarified atmosphere of real collectible Mustangs.  Not too unusual in the day, as US manufacturers like Ford had a propensity to replace original engines that failed early under warranty with a period correct motor but I would prefer an original as factory drivetrain the way it originally came out.

So for that money, I would prefer to look at genuine all original Boss 351’s in the US, top, matching numbers ones have cracked $100k US but there are Bosses that span $80k to $90k US and import one of those.  Am guessing but with importation costs including exchange rate conversion, stamp duty, handling fees etc it may come out similar in price to the yellow one you have pointed out here.  I last imported my ’73 Mach 1 in 2009 so appreciate if anyone with more recent expertise can help out here.