Engine rebuild

[barnett468]

Here's some reading for you but I am not endorsing any of these.

http://forums.corral.net/forums/5-0-5-8-engine-tech/1314481-your-347-combo-dyno-results.html

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=567210

http://www.hardcore50racing.com/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-50683.html

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/engine/mmfp-0103-ford-347-stroker-engine-build/

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/engine/mmfp-0712-ford-small-block-stroker-engine-build/

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/1110phr-testing-three-cams-on-a-347-ford/

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-1003-ford-347-engine-build/

http://347strokerkit.com/how-to-build-a-347-stroker.html

[GEOFF289]

Start here:
https://www.mustangtech.com.au/Content/pa=showpage/pid=27.html

The best advice you will ever get.

(I guess someone has removed the restriction on links to the other forum, which is good to see)

[Reborn67]

 I can say without doubt that l will be sourcing/using the parts that you guys have suggested, your knowledge and experience is very much appreciated and will still be pestering for advise as l go..,Thanks again 

[Reborn67]

 Yes I read that article {by Boof} the other night, amazing stuff, l had to lie down afterwards with a brain ache, will no doubt read it again more and more...,

[barnett468]

I can say without doubt that l will be sourcing/using the parts that you guys have suggested, your knowledge and experience is very much appreciated and will still be pestering for advise as l go..,Thanks again 

Then why don't you just tell us exactly what your goal is and we can post exact parts. There are many different rods and cranks and pistons and lifters and timing chains and heads etc that are good quality and reliable that will get the job done but some are better than they might need to be for a particular app, so buying the best ones is sometimes overkill and a waste of money.

[Reborn67]

 So as I said when i started, I have a 67 289, to be completely rebuilt, Would like 350 hp , if l can get a bit more by stroking it and not having to rev its ring off, Bonus. 
 So new machining to block,
 Cast Scat stroker crank and  scat I beam rods,
 Pistons???
 Heads AFR 1388 [185 58cc]
 Voodoo 272 cam
 The rest is yet to be decided...,
 Before the deck can be machined i assume they want the crank and pistons to know tolerances?

[barnett468]

So as I said when i started, I have a 67 289, to be completely rebuilt, Would like 350 hp , if l can get a bit more by stroking it and not having to rev its ring off, Bonus. 
 So new machining to block,
 Cast Scat stroker crank and  scat I beam rods,
 Pistons???
 Heads AFR 1388 [185 58cc]
 Voodoo 272 cam
 The rest is yet to be decided...,
 Before the deck can be machined i assume they want the crank and pistons to know tolerances?

in your case, i would build a 347.

yes on the parts you mentioned. eagle cranks and rods are cheaper in the us than scat, but i have no idea on prices in oz but shaunp can tell you all of that.

same thing with the pistons. i typically use 4032 material and prefer mahles or srp's.

i use the longest rods i can to reduce side loading on the pistons so the engines last as long as they can. i sometimes have custom pistons made to be able to use some rods.

i would use the standard morel or lunati or howards roller lifters. the lunati and howards standard roller lifters are morels but sometimes cost less because it does not say morel on them.

you can get a rollmaster timing chain with a thrust bearing. nice upgrade but a bit of overkill in your case imo.

i would use an eddy rpm or air gap intake.

i typically prefer cams with 110 lsa's. they hit a little harder than a wider lsa cam if all the other cam specs remain the same.

yes they need the crank, rods and pistons in their hands first.

cometic gaskets are one of the best but they are a bit expensive but that's what i would use. i would also use the .035" thick ones in your case.

you will need a good high perf damper . i prefer ati but have used pro comp sfi rated ones. powerbond also makes one and they are based in oz. innovators west also makes a high quality one.

i also drill a .5 mm hole in both front oil galley plugs.

high perf oil pump drive.

for your app, the arp main studs are overkill but they are an xlnt upgrade.

baffled oil pan if you race it.

standard scorpion rockers will hit some standard height valve covers and some shelby style valve covers. if you use this type of valve cover i would use the scorpion endurance series rocker but they cost more.

i use thick wall push rods like howards .118" wall chromoly.

If you use a standard block (not a 5.0) i would have it machined to use a 1 piece rear main seal. you will be much happier.

[shaunp]

So as I said when i started, I have a 67 289, to be completely rebuilt, Would like 350 hp , if l can get a bit more by stroking it and not having to rev its ring off, Bonus. 
 So new machining to block,
 Cast Scat stroker crank and  scat I beam rods,
 Pistons???
 Heads AFR 1388 [185 58cc]
 Voodoo 272 cam
 The rest is yet to be decided...,
 Before the deck can be machined i assume they want the crank and pistons to know tolerances?

You need to know the current bores size of the block you have so you know what to buy. Piston clearance / deck height depends on the pistons you buy. Forged pistons will want about 4 thou of side clearance for example

[barnett468]

yes, the bore size. the less it is bored the better.

if it is standard now, i would only go to .020" over. if it is .030" now, the block is junk because it will need to go to at least .040" in which case it will be impossible to cool properly unless you install a massive rad which is a problem unless you heavily modify your core support or move the engine rearward slightly etc.

[Reborn67]

 You say that 40 thou over will give you cooling issues, does that mean that 20-30 thou over would also have cooling issues to some degree , and is there measures to help this during rebuild stage, l know its only early in my case but l like the serpentine belt setup with thermo fans and what ever rad is needed, hopefully without having to "chop" to get it in, thoughts on whether this belt set up is more look  than function or perhaps expensive overkill, does it actually fit if you need a larger radiator, in a 67 hardtop,
 Have the engine out now and plan to start pulling it apart this weekend, all to be revealed,

[Dwayne]

You say that 40 thou over will give you cooling issues, does that mean that 20-30 thou over would also have cooling issues to some degree , and is there measures to help this during rebuild stage, l know its only early in my case but l like the serpentine belt setup with thermo fans and what ever rad is needed, hopefully without having to "chop" to get it in, thoughts on whether this belt set up is more look  than function or perhaps expensive overkill, does it actually fit if you need a larger radiator, in a 67 hardtop,
 Have the engine out now and plan to start pulling it apart this weekend, all to be revealed,

Probably worth starting a new thread so we can all follow along.

[Reborn67]

 Probably didnt want to get to carried away at this stage, just curious about overbore limitations, once l get the heads off l hopefully confirm my belief that the engine is original, and the block itself is useable, go from there. l know it has been sitting in someones back shed for the best part of 20 years and never driven on Aus soil, ex californian, the rest is anyones guess....,

[barnett468]

You say that 40 thou over will give you cooling issues, does that mean that 20-30 thou over would also have cooling issues to some degree , and is there measures to help this during rebuild stage, l know its only early in my case but l like the serpentine belt setup with thermo fans and what ever rad is needed, hopefully without having to "chop" to get it in, thoughts on whether this belt set up is more look  than function or perhaps expensive overkill, does it actually fit if you need a larger radiator, in a 67 hardtop,
 Have the engine out now and plan to start pulling it apart this weekend, all to be revealed,

if you have a 67 then you can run a big rad without having to chop anything. a good 24" with good fans will work fine unless it is .040" over.

contrary to what some self appointed "experts" believe, the more you bore it, the greater the demand on the cooling system but there is a big difference between trying to cool a .040" 289 than there is a .030" 289 because it crosses a certain threshold.

it is a good idea to get any block sonic checked before building it to make sure the walls are thick enough because the block can also have core shift and/or be rusted thin from inside the water jackets.

also, the less you bore it, the more bores you have left to go if you need to rebuild your recently rebuilt engine like fitzy has to now. 

[barnett468]

if you are on a budget you don't have to zero deck it and probably won't need to line bore it either.

[shaunp]

The issue with thin wall is you get mirco boiling on outside of the bore. 67 car go straight to a factory 24" rad with opposite inlet/outlet, use a set of twin EL falcon fans for example.

[barnett468]

...i also use fan controllers.

[ralph66]

if you have a 67 then you can run a big rad without having to chop anything. a good 24" with good fans will work fine unless it is .040" over.

contrary to what some self appointed "experts" believe, the more you bore it, the greater the demand on the cooling system but there is a big difference between trying to cool a .040" 289 than there is a .030" 289 because it crosses a certain threshold.

Can you explain this comment further? how is there more demand on the cooling system?

[BAC]

Can you explain this comment further? how is there more demand on the cooling system?

See Shaun's comment 3 posts up.

[ralph66]

See Shaun's comment 3 posts up.

Thanks Brian, what's the theory behind this? higher temperature at the cylinder wall because it is thinner?

[mcarnage59]

Thanks Brian, what's the theory behind this? higher temperature at the cylinder wall because it is thinner?

Yep transmits the heat into the water jacket quicker. Or in other words less wall thickness to absorb the heat and stop it’d transfer to the water.

[shaunp]

Having said that I've had 40 thou blocks which were fine, but I always have good cooling, 24" rad with plenty of fan. A 347 at 30 with a 24" rad factory shroud and 5 blade fan will run below 70 c  if you dont have thermostat in Brisbane no issue, Never get hot, put an 82 in it and thats where it will run.

[shaunp]

Yep transmits the heat into the water jacket quicker. Or in other words less wall thickness to absorb the heat and stop it’d transfer to the water.

This is also a reason for a high volume pump, not just to move more water but to build more block pressure. The 5.0 blocks are thinner everywhere not just the bore. The heat made by the engine is the same overall, combustion is no different, just more prone to gassing on the outer cylinder walls

[barnett468]

Having said that I've had 40 thou blocks which were fine, but I always have good cooling, 24" rad with plenty of fan.

yup, same here. a big enough rad and fan will cool most anything

[barnett468]

micro boiling can be greatly reduced by using straight antifreeze but that creates other issues.

[shaunp]

micro boiling can be greatly reduced by using straight antifreeze but that creates other issues.

Yeah makes them run hot like that Evans waterless stuff does.