Engine Pulleys

[unilec5544]

are you saying that some mfg makes a water pump that has the shaft in a different location than the 289 302 and 5.0 pumps?

I bought one of these nasson GMB water pumps and the distance from the back to the top off the pulley flange was 9mm longer and threw out all my pulleys, so I sent it back, wish i had taken other measurements when i had it, just worth a try to contact someone who rebuilds original pumps for a measurement.

[sms777]

This is the correct pump for a 66. The only way to fix your problem is to get matching set of pulleys to suit this pump. However now you have a four bolt balancer which makes it more complicated. If it was dual pattern problem would be easy fix.

[barnett468]

I bought one of these nasson GMB water pumps and the distance from the back to the top off the pulley flange was 9mm longer and threw out all my pulleys, so I sent it back, wish i had taken other measurements when i had it, just worth a try to contact someone who rebuilds original pumps for a measurement.

ok, so the shaft itself was in the right location then

[BAC]

This is the correct pump for a 66. The only way to fix your problem is to get matching set of pulleys to suit this pump. However now you have a four bolt balancer which makes it more complicated. If it was dual pattern problem would be easy fix.

CVF racing make pulleys to suit small blocks with 4 bolt cranks and 289/302 style water pumps.

[big al]

Reklaw,

I have read all the comments, and one serious problem you have that everyone, including yourself may have overlooked is your timing mark. 1970 and onwards motors had the timing pointer on the R/H side of the motor. That is consistent with all the  4 bolt harmonic balancers on 302 and 351 Windsor and 351 Cleveland. Your timing pointer is now on the L/H side. Now I also notice that your engine may still be sitting on top dead centre. If so, how are you going to time it as your timing marks on the balancer do not line up with the new timing cover? This too is a reason why the later water pump inlet is on the L/H side of the engine. To allow for timing.

Scott Drake make a balancer that overcomes this issue, as long as your engine is at 50oz. balance. Then you can buy the correct pulleys that will all line up like a factory 289/early 302 and will should be honkey dorey.

It's entirely up to you, and it may be a bit more expensive, but it may save you a lot of grief down the track

Al

[barnett468]

I have read all the comments, and one serious problem you have that everyone, including yourself may have overlooked is your timing mark.

But he doesn't need a timing mark if he tunes it by ear.

[sms777]

As Husky pointed out earlier Pro Race balancers are degreed for left and right timing pointers and they are also drilled for 3 and 4 bolt pulleys. They are the only balancers I use these days for mild engines.

[Reklaw]

Thanks Big Al.
I was aware of the timing marks issue so made my own up on the balancer. This was done before the heads went on, using a degree wheel and dial indicator etc. If you look at the original pic, you can just see the white line on the little protrusion on the timing cover. TDC and the other marks I put on the balancer line up with that white line.

Thanks again Chris. The machine guy confirmed this morning that the balancer was not modified during the balancing process, so I can change the balancer if need be. Would just like to check out the water pump centre line position before I do anything.

Here's a pic of the balancer. The marks may be out a degree or two but maybe Barnett might like to fly over to Oz to tune it by ear for me.

[barnett468]

The marks may be out a degree or two but maybe Barnett might like to fly over to Oz to tune it by ear for me.

Gladly just as long as you can get me a round trip ticket and a case of FOSTERS LAGER...Austral......on second thought, just the round trip ticket will be enough. 

[BAC]

Gladly just as long as you can get me a round trip ticket

Maybe we should all chip in and get Barney over here for a world tour of Oz. 

He could hold workshops in each capital city where we'd come and have our cars tuned by ear, followed by meet and greet sessions where he can tell us everything we've done wrong...

[mcarnage59]

Maybe we should all chip in and get Barney over here for a world tour of Oz. 

He could hold workshops in each capital city where we'd come and have our cars tuned by ear, followed by meet and greet sessions where he can tell us everything we've done wrong...

Sort of like one of those retired president Tours! I think Obama coming next year. Perhaps Fosters would be keen to be a major sponsor of the tour.

[barnett468]

 

[BAC]

I was only half joking...   

[barnett468]

I was only half joking...   

Which half? 

[Husky350]

As already stated, I don't understand why it doesn't fit if it did before. I didn't think the different water pumps and timing covers changed the center of the water pump.
Sorry to clarify, but are you 100% hand on your heart positive that the rear groove of the water pump pulley didn't line up with the rear groove of the crank pulley?

[BAC]

Which half? 

The half that would have had to come up with some money... 

Aren't you due for a nice vacation anyway?

[Reklaw]

As already stated, I don't understand why it doesn't fit if it did before. I didn't think the different water pumps and timing covers changed the center of the water pump.
Sorry to clarify, but are you 100% hand on your heart positive that the rear groove of the water pump pulley didn't line up with the rear groove of the crank pulley?

Hi Husky.
The problem is not with groove alignment, that can be fixed with spacers etc. This was a running engine before I pulled it out. Now, with a new timing cover and water pump, the upper and lower pulleys hit each other. Tomorrow I'll be comparing the distance between the top mounting bolt and the water pump shaft on mine and another water pump. Will be interesting to see if there's any difference.

[Dwayne]

I'm a bit simple and very inexperienced, so forgive me if this is way off ... Have you tried fitting the water pump pulley first, and then fitting the crank pulley?

The pictures look like the pulleys won't hit when water pump goes on first.

[Reklaw]

Hi Dwayne.
At over 900 posts, I think your a hell of a lot more experienced than me. I'm fairly well versed with Chevs, but first real experience with a Ford. No matter how you go about it, and I've tried all ways, the pulleys still hit on each other.

[Dwayne]

Don't confuse quantity with quality 

[barnett468]

Hi Dwayne.
I'm fairly well versed with Chevs,

Well there's the problem right there. 

[barnett468]

Well there's the problem right there. 

 

[barnett468]

Perhaps one of these would help.

[stormin]

Sort of like one of those retired president Tours! I think Obama coming next year. Perhaps Fosters would be keen to be a major sponsor of the tour.
[/FOSTERS !!! That's where the word Piss came from
Stormin
quote]

[Reklaw]

So here's the upshot of all this pulley nonsense.

Unilec5544, I contacted Itchyolfella today. He says he hasn't come across any pumps with the spindle not in the right place. Not that he knows of anyway.

I knocked up a Boganjig today, see the pic below. Using my recently acquired pump, the snout of the pump goes into a hole on the base of the Boganjig and a 5/16 bolt passes through the top hole of the pump and into the drilled hole. Simples.
My pump was removed and another pump placed into the Boganjig. There was only about 1 mm difference.

Conclusion, the pump that I have is OK, so buggered if I know what has changed to make the pulleys hit.

As advised by all, placed an order today for a balancer with 3 & 4 bolt pulley mounting.

This story should now have a happy ending. Thanks all for your input.