'66 power steering conversion

[FickleLife]

USA66, can you please post the pics? Have been googling around but can't find a good photo of it installed in a 66 RHD

[Dingo80]

I bought the RRS power rack, pump, etc maybe 8 years ago (when I had $$, no wife and kids) and have only now just fitted the rack as my 65 has been stripped to bare metal. Install of the rack was very straight forward and requires a small amount of drilling and that's about it, then it's bolt in. The pump is another story. I believe everything is basically VT commodore ish? Not sure if it is my setup but the supplied brackets don't allow pulley alignment. I have basically just gone to a saginaw pump as the reservoir is part of the pump and they are cheap. Early ford was an option too but the saginaw pumps I got was a bargain and fit nicely.

PS RRS customer service absolutely sucked. Not sure if it still does, but they are quick to take your money and extremely slow to produce the goods. Like 8 months I think it was!

Can't say how it performs though as my 65 has just gone to panel beaters.

[USA066]

Mine is LHD, but RHD installation should be basically the same. Here are some pics

[Dingo80]

Couple more photos. Sorry not the best but all I have on my phone. I have fitted the notch plates and the front struts also.

[shaunp]

Just remember that unless, you use the total RRS package the turning circle is crap, if you are going to just cruise and not race it look at TCP. The RRS rack and most others are Holden Camira / Deawoo racks from GM J car platforms.

[unilec5544]

There's a lot of work involved in fitting a rack as well as the cost and you still need to remove the engine. The two critical areas with the xf box is getting the position and angle correct and the drag link correct. If both are done properly the handling can be made the same if not better than original.

[USA066]

You don't need to remove the engine, my rack was installed with the engine in.

[shaunp]

There's a lot of work involved in fitting a rack as well as the cost and you still need to remove the engine. The two critical areas with the xf box is getting the position and angle correct and the drag link correct. If both are done properly the handling can be made the same if not better than original.

John Greene at Probe has retired now but is still in his works shop, he may make a drag link and give you the templates to drill the rails. The templates line up with the LHD bolt holes you cant go wrong. You'd need to give him a mustang drag link and a falcon one xw-xf

[Reklaw]

His car is already RHD, he's just trying to convert to Power Steer instead of Manual, so the rails will already be drilled and, I assume, tubed.

[shaunp]

His car is already RHD, he's just trying to convert to Power Steer instead of Manual, so the rails will already be drilled and, I assume, tubed.

Ok then that's different, it depends then if it has a pre XA box of XA on then. Do what you have to do.

[FickleLife]

Thanks Dingo, I've been speaking to a lot of people and doing quite a bit of research - one thing I have heard on the RRS is because of the way the rack is designed the angles on the universal joints on the steering column can bind easily - but this is for RHD conversions where who knows how they did the conversion -  In my instance being a RHD, there is a risk that is not present on a LHD.

Do you have any pics of the steering shaft with uni joints going through the firewall perchance?

I am collating my notes, I'll post back here my thoughts on the various options which currently are: TCP, RetroRack, RRS, XP steering box, Borgeson steering box, and something that hasn't been discussed - Kirby Bishop steering box (this is in my old mans 66 convertible... will get that up on jacks and have a good look at the setup)

[Dingo80]

Thanks Dingo, I've been speaking to a lot of people and doing quite a bit of research - one thing I have heard on the RRS is because of the way the rack is designed the angles on the universal joints on the steering column can bind easily - but this is for RHD conversions where who knows how they did the conversion -  In my instance being a RHD, there is a risk that is not present on a LHD.

Do you have any pics of the steering shaft with uni joints going through the firewall perchance?

I am collating my notes, I'll post back here my thoughts on the various options which currently are: TCP, RetroRack, RRS, XP steering box, Borgeson steering box, and something that hasn't been discussed - Kirby Bishop steering box (this is in my old mans 66 convertible... will get that up on jacks and have a good look at the setup)

Sorry mate I don't. Mine is still LHD. If I get time this weekend I will try and throw the column and rack back in and take a photo. I do remember the angle not being awesome but gave it a few test rotations and seemed ok. Guess it depends on where you shorten the column also.

[FickleLife]

At the moment, 2 options are at the top of my list

Retrorack

• Good reviews, including from mustang specialists
• Fully adjustable, so less risk of things not fitting correctly
• It is a mid-level price at 3500 ish (who am I kidding, it's a full 350% higher than I thought I could do this job for) which is a lot more than I planned to spend initially, but I could fit this myself
• It will be modern steering
• It will be relatively quick to install (this mustang is my daily driver and I have my kids in it, etc)
• I don't plan on selling this car ever (baring any financial event!) so it will be my daily driver for a very long time, I want to do it "right"

Borgeson power steering pump
Admittedly I need to do more research, but:

• If it's a bolt in for RHD, it will be cheaper than retrorack
• The steering quality will be just as good apparently
• May still need a custom drag link, but this install will be cheaper than retro rack so can sacrifice some time if saving money
• Did I mention I need to do more research? If anyone could chime in with experience with RHD and bores box that would be great

And I've decided not to pursue these options (unless anyone can give me amazing reasons why I am silly not to!)

XF Power steering

• Everyone says this is the best way to go but....
• ...Everyone I have spoken to, to do it "right" they recommend taking the engine out, nick the chassis rail, custom drag link... which is a lot of work and is probably beyond me, I'd have to get the professionals in which means $$$
• Taking the engine out could open a can of worms
• It will take a long time (my mustang is my daily driver)
• It is the cheaper option, but not by much. it also carries some risk with drag links not aligning, engine goes back in but something else is wrong, etc
• I wish this option was easier to do "right" for my particular scenario, I would have gone with it for sure if I was restoring the car and already had the engine out

RRS:

• Too many reviews of the steering column uni joints binding
• Spoken to too many mustang specialists who say they have had problems
• Documentation says loss of turning circle of 8% but hearing people reviews it seems like more
• Many reviews of poor support - last thing I want if I hit issues is difficulty in this area

Total Control

• Cost. It's just too much - even though it's got great reviews

Old Kirby Bishop power steering box

• If I'm going to do it, I'd like to have good results and no play in the steering... so this is out.

What do you think about my conclusions so far?

[shaunp]

I thought there was bad reports on the Retro rack? Most racks will need the LHD steering mount holes which may have been welded up so you still may need to pull the engine yet.

[FickleLife]

Thanks Shaun, the LHD holes are still there so I hope I am OK on that front.

I'm about to reshuffle my conclusions above :) will update in the next few days.

Regarding the Kirby Bishop option, here are some photos of my old mans setup on his RHD 66 Mustang. This conversion was done about 24 years ago in Thomastown, VIC. Full album here https://imgur.com/a/2188E but some photos:

No cuts in the chassis rail, spacer on the bottom


Images of the box from above - says "Kirby Bishop Variable Ratio"


Can't make out the pitman arm number, will prob have to get it on the hoist


While there is some play in the steering wheel, there is minimal bump steer. I am not sure what car the Kirby Bishop came out of.... googleing around it looks like they were used in Holden and Fords from the 70s. maybe I can find a part number somewhere but I can't seem to find too much info on this box...

[shaunp]

Thats a falcon box, these were used and are all the same from XA no matter who made them, most are Bendix though as they designed them. They will be the same as a Bendix, The chassis cut is not to do with box but the way the car was converted and the drag link made, thats all. There is no need to cut the rail. HQ on use a similar box but the pitman arm faces the rear as the are mounted forward on the front end. as for the spacer some are a little fatter in the casting, some you can just tap the rail in a few mm. I space them just incase you get an exchange box that is different.

[shaunp]

With respect to the LHD holes you are supposed to plug them so that drit/water doesn't get into the rails, I weld them up because I want the car to look like it was always RHD.
I would personally try a falcon box in your car assuming the drag link is ok and it was not set up for a pre XA box it should be fine. Do you have pictures of your current set up. Again the rail only needs to be cut if the car is not converted correctly in the first place.

[FickleLife]

So, an update. I have found someone with a heap of experience who will convert to XF power steering, incl the chassis rail and xrayed drag link.... so this is the way I'm going to go. He says that he doesn't have to remove the engine - he's done it several times before on '66s.

I'll report back as to how it turns out in several weeks....

[coops]

I would love to know how this is going?

[FickleLife]

OK so I thought I better bring some closure to the thread! The job has been done for a while now and the car handles very well. Below is the story.

Here's a gallery of the outcome: https://imgur.com/a/aP2SVPd which is basically the same as my old mans mustang that I posted higher up in this thread.

What was done:
1) XF box
2) drag link welded
3) Open tracker roller bearing spring saddles
4) King springs KFFL57
5) KYB Excel G shocks
6) Power Steering Pump

While the conversion was done, I knew I had to replace the spring saddles as they were worn so those were done at the same time. I decided to spend a bit more and get OpenTracker bearing saddles as there's been many good reviews about them reducing bind. The conversion took about 3 weeks to the installers credit. The box has a support plate welded on the reverse side of the chassis rail to strengthen it. Also put a hole where you can adjust the steering box if needed. No cutting of the chassis rail.

When I got the car back I was pretty worried - the bump steer was massive. I thought I was in a bit of trouble as I assumed the geometry was all out of whack. A few months passed of me driving it on and off and I decided I needed to get it addressed - I couldn't live with it.

Speaking to the installer as well as Matt @ Hendersons suspension I got some great advice - the car was moving a huge amount vertically on braking but especially acceleration. Matt theorised that slack, old springs combined with the bearing based spring saddles (which are designed to free up the suspension from binding so it can do its job better) was extending the steering geo way further than designed causing the bump steer. In went the King Springs KFFL57 (based on recommendations on the forum) and KYB Excel G and the difference was night and day, and the bump steer is gone - that said, I don't notice any bump steer anymore after driving it around for a few months.

To give you some idea of how far gone the old springs were - the KFFL57s are designed to lower the front end of the car, but they actually RAISED it... by about a cm. So the old spings had had it. The car still looks good, it's low enough for me at the front. 

It''s a pleasure to drive. The car already had a 1 inch sway bar but it stays pretty flat and I feel I can go almost twice as fast in cornering. The King springs made a huge difference to the enjoyment I get out of the car, not to mention the power steering. If anyone has old springs still in their Mustang, definitely go for the King Springs.

All in all a great outcome, very happy.


 

[shaunp]

Hmm
I think it still has bump steer, as you have not changed the actually geometry but, you are just masking it, with the stiffer springs. The toe will still be changing but as the travel is less you are not going to extremes. I suspect the drag link is wrong if the car was ok before.

[FickleLife]

Thanks Shaun, you're right - it is still there but it's very minor. One big give away is near where I live there are "plastic" speed bumps. Before I did the springs, rolling over these the front tyres would squeak loudly against the plastic (as they would toe in as the suspension was extended/compressed), but the rears wouldn't (of course they're straight)

After the springs, the front tyres still squeak going over the speed bump, but you really have to listen - it's really minor compared to before - but it is there so there is probably some tiny amount of toe. It's so minor I just can't detect any bump steer anymore - it tracks straight over bumps, when I accelerate hard it stays straight....

[shaunp]

Thanks Shaun, you're right - it is still there but it's very minor. One big give away is near where I live there are "plastic" speed bumps. Before I did the springs, rolling over these the front tyres would squeak loudly against the plastic (as they would toe in as the suspension was extended/compressed), but the rears wouldn't (of course they're straight)

After the springs, the front tyres still squeak going over the speed bump, but you really have to listen - it's really minor compared to before - but it is there so there is probably some tiny amount of toe. It's so minor I just can't detect any bump steer anymore - it tracks straight over bumps, when I accelerate hard it stays straight....

where you see it is if you jack the car in the center and lift both front wheels off the ground they will point in odd directions. I suspect the drag link is at the wrong height, or he has use used a falcon link, and there for the tie rod mounts are not the correct distance apart.

[Reklaw]

Ficklelife,
I'm backtracking a bit here. Did you end up using that Borgeson P/S pump bracket and Saginaw style pump?
If so, what did you think of the bracket set up?

[FickleLife]

In the end a custom bracket was made (down the the guy who did the conversion preference) and used this pump https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/371031364677

Further update: discovered the bump steer issue was worn lower ball joints, replaced those and handles real nice now.