289 2V -> 4V on a budget again!!

[barnett468]

I love this forum such great support thanks everyone.

I wonder how much trouble I can get myself into doing this job

Well the worst that can happen is the the intake will leak oil outside the engine and water on the inside and will have an air leak and the carb will flood, so not too much to worry about. Just ask Fitzy!

 

[barnett468]

here's the summit racing carb

[mcarnage59]

Ok so we spent the last two days doing the change over to 4bbl

Installed performer manifold
Installed Autolite 4100 I purchased all reconditioned from forum member
Sat it on a stock 1” Aluminium spacer that includes the PCV valve pipe connection
Installed new petronix dizzy
Installed new choke tube (at least the top one as the bottom one is still broken off in the stove. But we think the top should function ok until the new stove arrives from the US. Maybe just a little slower to warm up as it continually draws fresh air through the stove rather than recirculating heated air via the bottom return pipe.

Problem: Very rough idle, seems to run ok at 2000 rpm but idle is rubbish

Any leads/suggestions for my mechanic so we can chase it down? If we cant I’ll trash the carb and buy something new

We are using the baseline flame thrower coil that was driving the igniter in the old dizzy no problems and I believe it is suited/matched the the base petronix dizzy.

We also installed the newly reco’d power steering canister that I had painted and polished only to have it piss oil at the return pipe joint which was obviously fractured . So ripped it out and silver soldered it before another repaint and hopefully successful install on Monday

[shaunp]

air leak maybe, or just some crap in in the carb, 4100 is very reliable what gaskets did you use on the intake. did you bypass the ballast wire to the coil.

[evan]

air leak maybe, or just some crap in in the carb, 4100 is very reliable what gaskets did you use on the intake.

I reckon Shaun's onto something. You need to be very careful with which gaskets you use between carb & spacer & spacer & manifold. Standard 4 barrel Holley gaskets won't do & will give you severe vacuum leaks. If you're using the original Ford spacer, ensure that your gasket definitely covers the whole surface & it needs to be quite thick (correct gaskets are available from the US IIRC).

Evan.

[GEOFF289]

You can spray some WD40 or starter stuff around the gaskets while its running. If the idle picks up when you spray a certain spot you've found a leak. You have the inlet manifold gasket and two carb gaskets to look at. Also spray any manifold ports where a fitting has been screwed in like for the brake booster.

You have got all the unused vac ports on the carb and manifold plugged, haven't you?

[BAC]

I know you are keen on originality, but once the decision was made to go with the Performer intake I would have gone for a modern carby with an electric choke... 

[mcarnage59]

Ok  thank you for responding, in answer to all of the above.
Coil ballist? Not sure there was one. System was running with an igniter on the 2bbl.
Gaskets came from local mustang parts dealers along with the spacer which is SD not original. Will try the leak detection process Monday. Hopefully that will provide some results. Evan what was that gasket supplier?
Thanks again.

[mcarnage59]

I know you are keen on originality, but once the decision was made to go with the Performer intake I would have gone for a modern carby with an electric choke... 

Actually not so stressed about originality anymore, but do like simple features that work well like the rod kick down and choke. Evan and others had indicated 4100 as a simple reliable option and I was comfortable with that recommendation but if it continues to be a problem I’ll ditch the carb and go for new Holley or other recommendation.
Ultimately I’m looking for a smart, tidy engine bay with moderate performance improvement that I can get with simple manifold carb and eventually exp manifold change.

Open to suggestions.

[BAC]

Open to suggestions.

I still reckon the Summit Racing remanufactured 600CFM is the go - amazing value at $199 USD with electric choke and Ford kickdown support. 
Then you can ditch the old cast iron exhaust manifolds and get yourself some nice headers... 

[mcarnage59]

Do you still have yours in the box? Selling?

[BAC]

Do you still have yours in the box? Selling?

Yep, still in box.  Will probably need it at some stage so unfortunately not for sale.  Just checked on Summit's site and that carb is out of stock with no estimate of availability, plus their international shipping prices have returned to eye watering levels.

Here's a Street Avenger 570CFM factory refurbished by Holley for a tick under $450 delivered:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/351542418857

Or a brand new Quick Fuel Slayer 600CFM with electric choke and Ford kickdown support for $470 delivered:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/332443925180

[Soaring]

I can second the Street Avenger 570. Had one on my 289 for 10 years now. Has worked flawlessly, after a jet change during a dyno tune. (Also something I highly recommend)

[Dwayne]

their international shipping prices have returned to eye watering levels.

Their shipping prices change a fair bit. 

I had my shopping cart ready to go and knew shipping price, but last night went to buy and shipping price had nearly doubled.   Half an hour later, the cheaper freight was listed again 

[shaunp]

Haven't you swapped the disy as well?  If so make sure you bypass the resistive ballast wire under the dash, lots of electronic units need 12v , sometimes the ignitor 1 will work ok sometimes it wont. Generally causes crap idle.

[mcarnage59]

Haven't you swapped the disy as well?  If so make sure you bypass the resistive ballast wire under the dash, lots of electronic units need 12v , sometimes the ignitor 1 will work ok sometimes it wont. Generally causes crap idle.

Ok I can check that but I had an igniter 1 running in the old dizzy

[GEOFF289]

Mark, don't make the mistake I did and assume you have 12 volts at the coil because it ran before. My old engine had a pertronix kit in the distributor and I assumed it must be getting 12 volts to run with that but after installing my new engine it wouldn't idle at all below about 1,500 rpm. If I turned the idle down it just died.

Eventually after exhausting every other possibility I checked the voltage and found I only had 9 or so. It seems that whatever model pertronix the old engine had was happy with that but the MSD in the new engine wasn't.

Check the voltage at the coil with the engine running. If you check it with the ignition on but engine not running it will show 12 volts. The resistor drops it back to 9 or so after the engine starts.

[GLENN 70]

It could be crap in the carby , could be a vacuum leak , block all vacuum ports and see what happens but could be the intake gaskets or even the carby base plate and spacer plate gaskets .  If it has not got 12v it will run crap at idle and run ok over  around 1500 rpm .  Start engine let idle then turn head lights on and foot on the brake and see if it dies from low voltage .

[mcarnage59]

Ok I can check the voltage easily I’ll do that first thing tomorrow. Is the bypass easy to do?

[GEOFF289]

My suggestion is this. Go to Jaycar or somewhere and get a normal Bosch-type relay with the 4 numbered blades for connectors - only  few bucks. Connect it up as follows:

30 - connect 12v power from your solenoid battery post here
87 - wire that will carry 12v from the relay to your coil "+" post
86 - connect the wire that was originally powering your coil "+" post
85 - suitable eartch

The relay is effectively an electrically powered switch. Wired up like this the original ignition circuit is simply closing the circuit in the relay. So you turn the key, power flows to 86 which closes a circuit between 30 and 87 and allows a full 12 volts to flow from battery to coil.

This approach allows easy return to stock set up if that was ever wanted and avoids having to stuff around under the dash trying to bypass the resistor at the ignition switch.

[shaunp]

Just hot wire the coil to the battery and see if that fixes it easy.

[evan]

Evan what was that gasket supplier?

Mark, pretty sure that the gaskets I use between carb & spacer are Fel-Pro 60059. The spacer to manifold is a little more difficult. I got one from Performance Carburetor in Canada (ebay seller backintheday1970). They were called 'Autolite Insulator Base Flange Gasket For Model 4100' on ebay. I also bought a 5 pack of Autolite 4100 carb gaskets off him but they were the wrong size & failed soon after starting engine.

Evan.

[mcarnage59]

Mark, pretty sure that the gaskets I use between carb & spacer are Fel-Pro 60059. The spacer to manifold is a little more difficult. I got one from Performance Carburetor in Canada (ebay seller backintheday1970). They were called 'Autolite Insulator Base Flange Gasket For Model 4100' on ebay. I also bought a 5 pack of Autolite 4100 carb gaskets off him but they were the wrong size & failed soon after starting engine.

Evan.

Thanks Evan,
So far we have checked the Carby for leaks and it looks ok. He also pulled it down a little to check the idling circuit and again looks good. He bypassed the ballast wire to ensure 12v, still car is running terrible. Mechanic has hooked it up to his diagnostics gadget and it is indicating ignition problems. He will put my old dizzy back in and see what happens. If is resolves then he his thinking it might be coil incompatibility problem. Although that coil was running the original igniter i without issue and I beloeve it is a match for the stock look petronix dizzy that I purchased. It is a base flamethrower 40,000V 1.5ohms

[mcarnage59]

Well the saga continues. New dizzy, old dizzy no difference in performance, running terrible. 

Leaves the manifold and Carby as the only other change points . Both been triple checked for leaks without identifying any problems. Later today we will fit Holley 600 (electric choke BAC will be happy) which is on its way and will jet it down. Hopefully that will isolate the problem.

[Gallop]

A few years ago I tried using an Autolite 4100 (rebuilt - paid a tidy sum) with a Edelbrock performer intake on my 289 auto. I tried numerous different gaskets without success. No matter what I tried I always had a vacuum leak. In the end, out of frustration, I put an Edelbrock carb on the car.  The vacuum leak problem was solved.

I kept researching though and found the Boss 302 carby spacer appeared to be a better option than the one inch aluminium spacer. The boss spacer appears to cover more of the performer intake that the aluminium spacer. Although I have the Boss spacer, I have never fitted it with the Autolite.  I will get to it one day, just as an experiment to test my thinking.