289 2V -> 4V on a budget

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Author Topic: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget  (Read 19121 times)

Offline BAC

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Re: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2016, 09:03:33 pm »
It has the wrong steering wheel but I think I have a real Cougar wood grain one if you want to make it more correct.
And the hood springs are probably rusty as well...  But seriously, did you mean one like this:



If so, we'll talk once the car gets here (about 2 months away).


I like the wheels but yes it needs to be dropped 2 inches/ 50 mm.  Just get it here 1 st . Rodney 69 ish will wet his pants when he gets on . Well maybe not  :grin: .
Yep - it sits too high.  I like the wheels too, so they're staying!


I have an Edelbrock F4B intake manifold you can have for $150 ....located in melbourne ...if you are interested...cheers John
Cheers, will keep it in mind.  :thumb:
Cheers,
Brian

Offline barnett468

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Re: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2016, 09:07:10 pm »
And the hood springs are probably rusty as well...  But seriously, did you mean one like this:



If so, we'll talk once the car gets here (about 2 months away).

Yep - it sits too high.  I like the wheels too, so they're staying!

Cheers, will keep it in mind.  :thumb:

Well I should still have the bitchen 67 3 button wood grain wheel and may still have a 68 one . I will let you know when I get to the shop in a week or so.


Offline Fitzy1980

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Re: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2016, 09:08:39 pm »
I don't mind a cougar  :drool:

Offline mwizz

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Re: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2016, 09:09:03 pm »
Good find

Offline BAC

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Re: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2016, 09:12:37 pm »
The more I see it the more I LIKE IT  :thumb:

I don't mind a cougar  :drool:

Good find

Thanks guys, really appreciate it!  :thumb: 

Would have ideally liked something with a bigger donk in it (390 would have been nice) but as with Mustangs the nice big block cars go for a lot more money and I fell in love with the colour scheme on this one.  It was originally Glacier Blue with the interior you see in it now. 

Cougars can look a bit like a grandpa car in some colours (Lime Frost comes to mind) but black ones look tough and I was interested to find one that had something other than a red or black interior.  Took a little while for the light blue to grow on me but it has now.  The fact that it's the original trim colour is a bonus.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 09:24:28 pm by BAC »
Cheers,
Brian

Offline barnett468

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Re: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget
« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2016, 09:22:25 pm »
since you like  those wheels you might have to like it jacked up too because the tires will likely hit if you lower it.

Offline BAC

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Re: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget
« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2016, 09:29:07 pm »
since you like  those wheels you might have to like it jacked up too because the tires will likely hit if you lower it.

You may be right - will see when it gets here... 

Oh and cheers for the heads up on the spacer and the intake gaskets.  I already bought a 1" phenolic after seeing the positive effect it had on the 351W in the Mach 1 and I will definitely pick up a set of those gaskets when the time comes.  :thumb:
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 09:37:07 pm by BAC »
Cheers,
Brian

Offline boofhead

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Re: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2016, 10:04:57 pm »
Your in good company BAC, I have a 67 XR7 in my stable. Your 68 looks great.

I have not had any issues with stealth intakes - you need to check every aftermarket manifold for fit. Most of the time the Vic Jr and Snr need to be milled in my experience.

The 600 Holley can work fine on the stock engine after minor adjustments though you will get better engine  response with a 500 (hence my choice) though you can still get a Holley 425 factory replacement but the dollars really start to go up.
The edys are fine and tend to just work - I have a 600 on one of my cars - it is only when you have problems your in more trouble because people in general do not know them. As I hinted I would use a Holley style in a more performance oriented setup. No known problem with the Summit Carbi (I have only looked at them not tuned them [eg the Holley rip off version]) I was just looking for a smaller carb.

 

Offline BAC

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Re: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2016, 10:23:03 pm »
Your in good company BAC, I have a 67 XR7 in my stable.

Mate, I love the XR7s and the '67s in particular have those screw in ribs in front of the rear wheel arches that look like claw marks...  :drool:


The 600 Holley can work fine on the stock engine after minor adjustments though you will get better engine  response with a 500 (hence my choice) though you can still get a Holley 425 factory replacement but the dollars really start to go up.
The edys are fine and tend to just work - I have a 600 on one of my cars - it is only when you have problems your in more trouble because people in general do not know them. As I hinted I would use a Holley style in a more performance oriented setup. No known problem with the Summit Carbi (I have only looked at them not tuned them [eg the Holley rip off version]) I was just looking for a smaller carb.

I think I'm pretty sold on the Summit 600 which as you point out is a Holley 4010 / Autolite 4100 knock-off with a few improvements.  Seeing as how quite a few people swear the 4100 is still the carby of choice for small block Fords I figure you can't go too far wrong with a modern copy of it.

Still not sure on the intake - there aren't any cheap Weiand 8020's that I can find out here and it is a higher rise manifold than the 8124 isn't it?  I am planning to add a 1" phenolic spacer into the mix so it may be better to stick with a low rise manifold.

As for the Weiand 8124 vs. Eddy Performer debate, everyone has their favourite but one thing that's supposed to be pretty consistent in dyno comparisons of the two is the 8124 produces a few HP more than the Eddy across the entire rev range.  That and the fact that it's also a bit cheaper is swaying me more in favour of the 8124 at the moment.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 10:32:30 pm by BAC »
Cheers,
Brian

Offline GLENN 70

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Re: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2016, 10:39:58 pm »
On ebay at the moment 2 edelbrock RPM and 1 performer intakes in your state . Even the RPM will work ok . I prefer the 570 because they are easier to set than the others you are talking about .  A little more expensive but I think better in the long run .  My thoughts only .

Offline boofhead

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Re: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2016, 10:54:33 pm »
You know your Cougars - the 7 ribs do look great.


The Performer manifold is really a direct copy of the factory iron manifold. The Stealth is very similar to the RPM. Weiand are a little less expensive than the Edelbrock manifolds. You know all variables really now. 

Offline mert

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Re: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2016, 12:39:14 am »
Nice car.... always like the Cougars... the "deluxe/luxury" upgrade version to the Mustang in the Ford/Mercury stable of the day...

Thanks for the note on the OEM/Performer and Stealth/RPM, knew they were similar but not clones of the same base items.
8R01S, 8R03S, 8R01C-Cal Special, 8F01X - EXP500 Repli-bute

Offline barnett468

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Re: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2016, 06:26:33 am »
YNo known problem with the Summit Carbi (I have only looked at them not tuned them [eg the Holley rip off version]) I was just looking for a smaller carb.

Hi boofhead, where have ya been . hope things are well on your end.

Just some novelty info for ya . the summit carb is not a holley rip off . it is a holley . summit bought the rights to it . the body is cast in china but it is machined and assembled in the us by holley . holley sold the rights due to slow sales.

good to know the stealths fit ok now.

« Last Edit: March 09, 2016, 07:11:42 am by barnett468 »

Offline barnett468

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Re: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2016, 06:29:57 am »
You may be right - will see when it gets here... 

Oh and cheers for the heads up on the spacer and the intake gaskets.  I already bought a 1" phenolic after seeing the positive effect it had on the 351W in the Mach 1 and I will definitely pick up a set of those gaskets when the time comes.  :thumb:

no prob, you're welcome.

if you buy the gaskets in oz, you might only find fel pros . they come in different port sizes so you need to get the ones that most closely match your ports but they cost $10.00 usd more so i was just trying to save you some money.


Offline barnett468

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Re: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2016, 06:49:59 am »
Mate, I love the XR7s and the '67s in particular have those screw in ribs in front of the rear wheel arches that look like claw marks...  :drool:

I think I'm pretty sold on the Summit 600 which as you point out is a Holley 4010 / Autolite 4100 knock-off with a few improvements.  Seeing as how quite a few people swear the 4100 is still the carby of choice for small block Fords I figure you can't go too far wrong with a modern copy of it.

Still not sure on the intake - there aren't any cheap Weiand 8020's that I can find out here and it is a higher rise manifold than the 8124 isn't it?  I am planning to add a 1" phenolic spacer into the mix so it may be better to stick with a low rise manifold.

As for the Weiand 8124 vs. Eddy Performer debate, everyone has their favourite but one thing that's supposed to be pretty consistent in dyno comparisons of the two is the 8124 produces a few HP more than the Eddy across the entire rev range.  That and the fact that it's also a bit cheaper is swaying me more in favour of the 8124 at the moment.

INTAKE

there is absolutely nothing wrong with a performer intake for your app . i mean ZERO, NADA, ZILCH

Do NOT go solely by dyno results . i have been doing this for 40 years as a living, not part time as a hobbyist, so i have seen it all and then some . if you had ever been in a 271 hi po mustang with that similar crappy little intake, you would not even consider a stealth.

as far as running a stealth on it, yes it will perform ok but you will in fact have more bottom end with the eddy with a spacer . the difference will not be huge and some people are willing to give up a little power in the rpm range they want it in to have something that looks a bit more racey and cool and there is ZERO wrong with that . so these are the facts and you can use them to make your decision . i personally think the eddy performer looks like crap, but imo, it is still the best intake for your app, but again, the difference won't be huge.

if you want a medium rise intake, i would get the summit stage I or the weiand street warrior . they are the same height which is slightly shorter than the stealth.


GEARING

I am going to tell you the same thing i tell everyone which is the exact same thing that GENNN and boofhead and shaunp and every other knowledgeable builder will tell you, and it is this . if you want quicker acceleration, install numerically higher gears, or a bigger engine or a supercharger or nitrous.

the 271 hi po engines haul ass with the puny little intake, but the only reason they haul ass is because of the gears they come with . the standard gear for those is 3.50 . you can NOT special order a 271 with numerically lower gears because it will be a pig off the line so ford figures if you want numerically lower gears, you should just order the standard 4 barrel.

unless you have ghetto size tires, the best overall gearing for moderate performance without making it rev fairly high on the highway is 3.25 and every knowledgeable person will tell you this also.


CARBURETOR

as far as the rebuilt summit carb vs the new summit carb goes, i would take the rebuilt one due to the cost PLUS, they go thru and fix anything that was wrong with it so you know the thing is most likely going to be perfect . the problems are sometimes just metal shavings that didn't get cleaned out and got stuck in a port etc.


SPACER

You do not need a 1" spacer on a high rise for your app because it has sufficient plenum area. you can simply buy a 5 mm thick paper gasket or 5 mm phenolic spacer to help insulate the carb from heat.


EXHAUST

If the exhaust is stock, you will gain a little power with headers . if you want headers, the short style are fine and easier to deal with sometimes than the long ones . if you don't like headers, you can buy copies of the original 271 hi po exhaust.


« Last Edit: March 09, 2016, 10:42:25 am by barnett468 »

Offline GLENN 70

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Re: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget
« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2016, 09:35:28 am »
Yes the summit carb was a Holley . I remember when the new style holley came out and it was a flop ,not because of to many problems and summit fixed  them anyway ,it just didn't look like a holley . They are suppose to be ok but not common in Australia as the older original type holley . The edelbrock performer is a  replacement for the ford  4 B  cast iron intake . Great intake on a stock engine and a 1 inch spacer makes it ok for a mild engine . On my earlier sleepers I ran them with a notch out of the divider and fitted a spacer and ground off the writing and painted them blue . No one ever noticed and thought they were stock ford intakes  :grin: .

Offline boofhead

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Re: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget
« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2016, 12:30:41 pm »
Just some novelty info for ya . the summit carb is not a holley rip off . it is a holley . summit bought the rights to it . the body is cast in china but it is machined and assembled in the us by holley . holley sold the rights due to slow sales.
Thanks Barn - always happy to learn something new.

Offline barnett468

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Re: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget
« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2016, 01:26:34 pm »
Thanks Barn - always happy to learn something new.

No prob . Yeah, that was a brilliant move by Summit because they actually sell a boat load of those carbs and it's a real Holley that was actually improved a little from the orig design, but part of the deal was that Summit could not call them Holley's.


Offline BAC

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Re: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget
« Reply #43 on: March 09, 2016, 02:01:13 pm »
No prob . Yeah, that was a brilliant move by Summit because they actually sell a boat load of those carbs and it's a real Holley that was actually improved a little from the orig design, but part of the deal was that Summit could not call them Holley's.

I have trawled the web and the worst thing that anyone has said is they run a little rich out of the box in some applications.  They sound like extremely good value and I'm thinking that's the way to go.

Would the carby be jetted OK for the 289 out of the box or would I need one of their jet kits as well?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2016, 02:06:02 pm by BAC »
Cheers,
Brian

Offline barnett468

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Re: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget
« Reply #44 on: March 09, 2016, 02:18:45 pm »
Would the carby be jetted OK for the 289 out of the box or would I need one of their jet kits as well?

It will be very close and may be ideal . You just need to try it . You must use Holley jets if you need and and they are pricey in oz . if you get any jets, i would get a pair of 65 and a pair of 69 for the front and maybe a pair of 71 for the rear.

i would also get a secondary spring kit so you can tune those for optimal performance.

the distributor spring kit i mentioned is only $6.00 usd so it makes no sense not to get it.
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Offline Pinto Pete

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Re: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget
« Reply #45 on: March 10, 2016, 09:58:30 pm »
Thanks Glenn!  If I say something nice about your not-a-'69 Mach 1, can I stay?  :bow:
You're not allowed to make shit up so NO.... :grin: (suprised your mum didn't learn you about fibs) anyhoo really nice looking non mustang there bloke sooo,.... I reckon you can stay, anyway it's a lot bloody closer to a stang than a Fairlane...
« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 10:02:37 pm by Pinto Pete »
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Offline BAC

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Re: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget
« Reply #46 on: March 10, 2016, 11:27:06 pm »
it's a lot bloody closer to a stang than a Fairlane...

Yep - it's pretty much a Mustang in a dinner suit...
Cheers,
Brian

Offline BAC

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Re: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget
« Reply #47 on: March 14, 2016, 07:15:20 pm »
CARB SPACER
Buy a 1" phenolic spacer and try it with and without it, but with it it will be the same as the stock height . The phenolic will also insulate the carb and greatly reduce the potential for the gas to boil.

INTAKE GASKETS
Use the soft type and install the small steel plate that comes with them to block off the heat cross over in the intake.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-51400921/overview/make/ford
I've decided on the Summit 600cfm carb and Weiand street warrior 8124 intake.  Getting ready to pull the trigger on my Summit order due to the dollar being up a bit at the moment and was wondering about intake gasket selection.

Barnett suggested the Trickflow 514008921, but there is also the Fel-Pro Printoseal gasket available for the 289 for around 10 bucks more.  Anyone had experience with either?  Is the printoseal worth the extra money or is it just a gimmick?

In either case, there are multiple versions for different port sizes.  Based on Barnett's link, I assume I need the 2.00 x 1.20 inch size for a stock 289?

And on the carb spacer, does anyone have a gut feel on what type would work better on a 289 with a 4 barrel carb and low rise dual plane intake: open or 4 hole?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2016, 07:23:01 pm by BAC »
Cheers,
Brian

Offline 69ISH

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Re: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget
« Reply #48 on: March 14, 2016, 07:20:37 pm »
The printoseal gasket failing with the chinese manifold and the engine builder not using sealant caused my engine to totally destroy itself. I would talk to Shaunp before purchasing printoseal gaskets as he dismantled what was left of my 347 and built the new 408 which has not missed a beat.
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Offline BAC

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Re: 289 2V -> 4V on a budget
« Reply #49 on: March 14, 2016, 07:24:07 pm »
The printoseal gasket failing with the chinese manifold and the engine builder not using sealant caused my engine to totally destroy itself. I would talk to Shaunp before purchasing printoseal gaskets as he dismantled what was left of my 347 and built the new 408 which has not missed a beat.

Thanks, I will stick with the Trickflows then.  Any idea if 2.00 x 1.20 inch is the correct port size for a 289?
Cheers,
Brian