Well - enough now.

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Author Topic: Well - enough now.  (Read 33528 times)

Offline 428 Cobra Jet

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« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2011, 10:21:37 pm »
Quote from: boss 427 link=topic=16249.msg163366#msg163366
Quote from: 428 Cobra Jet link=topic=16249.msg163357#msg163357
Hi guy's,

The car in question is mine, it was featured in AM&F No 5, I have been going from Webers to F/I and back to webers, anyway if anyone wants more photos there is a link to my ( photobuckethttp://s1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff429/greenxr8/), anyway the car is for sale at $75,000 firm. It is a great car, 4 speed with Vintage Air, March pulley system, Power brakes (discs on front) and the list goes on.

412hp@rear wheels & 862ft/lbs torque (Street set up) see dyno sheet



70 Fastback Mach 1
427 s/o stroked
428 cj Crank, 428 rods
Crower Stage 5 hyd Cam
390 GT heads to Med riser, then ported,polished
Manley S/S Valves
Ford Racing shaft mounted rockers,
Weber Bblue Thunder Manifold, port matched
4 x 48IDA Webers
Engine has ful ARP studs and bolt, weshers and nuts installed.
Ford Racing Hi performance oil pump (blueprinted) chrome moly shaft installed
Canton 7 qrt Sump

See spec sheeet for remaining features.





412 HP and 863ft/lbs. Whose leg are you trying to pull. N/A those figures don't add up. More like 363 ft/lbs. I think you miss read the figures.
48 IDA,s are way to small. You would need a min. of 60mm. IDA,s. Street set up?????? Whats the difference? What else are you b/sing about?


I am so glad that we have Gurus on this forum, I suggest you guy's spend more time doing rather than talking, It absolutly astounds me the rubbish I read on these forums. I certainlty do not need to justify matters, however anyone who wants a copy of the Dyno Sheet, drop me a line and I will forward to you, that and enlighten you on building a strong FE, there are 32 more of similar Fe's built mainly US sourced Cobra's and GT40's members. Oh and let this blow your mind, this is a 10-1 comp and Hyd camed engine. (Oh this cannot be true surely, really???)    Darryl  
1970 428 Cobra Jet Mustang, 427 S/O block 428 crank & rods, 4 x 48 IDA Webers, 4 speed Top Loader, 3.89 Traction LOC, Currie 31 spline 9", Caltracks, 15"Prostars.

Offline 68pony

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« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2011, 10:44:50 pm »
Mate i wasn't havn a go at you, you have taken me the wrong way i was defending you just saying your hp figures sound correct but dynos do not give a accurate torque figure only a engine dyno and the drag strip will do that, and i was not being sarcastic when i said i hope my 427 does a simular number i hope it does, again you took me the wrong way.
Ah well good luck with it bud.
:golf:

Offline Ash

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« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2011, 10:47:00 pm »
Quote from: 428 Cobra Jet link=topic=16249.msg163396#msg163396
Quote from: Ash link=topic=16249.msg163361#msg163361
Hi 428 Cobra Jet,

I have a 69 428 CJ as well and have been looking at how to hide the A/C in the engine bay. Yours looks very neat and tidy, great work! Where may I ask is your A/C compressor mounted?

Cheers :thumb:
Ash, I ran a March Pulley system, it locates the A/C comp under the alternator. Great set up.

Darryl


Thanks Darryl, that set-up looks great! Just had a bit of a Google and they do a few variations which is good to see. Thanks for that!

Ash
"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Kernel Sanders

Offline 428 Cobra Jet

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« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2011, 11:40:18 pm »
Pedro,

Well what can we say, it seems you have stirred the pot with the dyno figures from Motocarb on the 427 Mustang, There are so many things that come to mind about the guru's that preside over forums like these, after 35 years in Motorsport from L-34's to Cosworth Engineering and F1 to 7.4 ltr Can Am Engines, to Grp C Sportcars (Porsche) to Nascar and Grp A & V8 Supercars  building and developing these engines, I have done my time listening to the likes who have far too much time waffling on about all their greatness.

The thing that annoys me about these forums, and it is whatever forum you are on, because they all have a select few that beleive that they have a god given right to pervey their wisdom upon all.  If anyone wants a copy of the dyno sheet contact me and I'll send it to you. If you want to discuss matters again please contact me and I am more tham happy to enlighten you. I am NOT any have Never portrayed myself to be a Mustang guru, however I can tell you that the engine in question was built by me in 1993 at Taylor Engines in California as have 31 other FE engines that have or currently reside in AC cobras, GT40's of a similar spec. The engine dyno used was a Froude (Heeman-Froude) and the engine ended up at 601hp @ 5860rpm. I still have the engine sheet, however the dyno calc sheet which had the Torque number, Air Temperature, Atmospheric Pressure, Barometric Pressure needed to equate the final HP figure has been misplaced over the years, however the fact is it did produce 601hp with 2 x 4bl and 2 x 735's, the engine was never dynoed with the webers until I got the car back last year. The DynoLog chassis dyno was checked and calibrated 2 weeks prior to the test being carried out. The car actually produced 443hp at the wheels before it was backed off for a more street friendly tune.  the torque figure was 851@ 1750rpm stayed to 4350 where it jumped to 862 to drop to 700@6000rpm whereby there was no point pushing it to its 6400rpm cutout.

Anyway I've had my beef, It would be great if this forum would break the mould and have like minded people offering positive advice, assisting each other and asking questions instead of the current carry on by a select few. I am sure there are many more guy's out there that have a wealth of knoweldge that they sit on and not comment because of the way the forums are conducted by these selective few.

Darryl          
1970 428 Cobra Jet Mustang, 427 S/O block 428 crank & rods, 4 x 48 IDA Webers, 4 speed Top Loader, 3.89 Traction LOC, Currie 31 spline 9", Caltracks, 15"Prostars.

Offline 428 Cobra Jet

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« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2011, 12:14:01 am »
Quote from: 68pony link=topic=16249.msg163402#msg163402
Mate i wasn't havn a go at you, you have taken me the wrong way i was defending you just saying your hp figures sound correct but dynos do not give a accurate torque figure only a engine dyno and the drag strip will do that, and i was not being sarcastic when i said i hope my 427 does a simular number i hope it does, again you took me the wrong way.
Ah well good luck with it bud.
:golf:


Buddy, "but dynos do not give a accurate torque figure only a engine dyno" hate to say it but you are wrong. Sorry.
1970 428 Cobra Jet Mustang, 427 S/O block 428 crank & rods, 4 x 48 IDA Webers, 4 speed Top Loader, 3.89 Traction LOC, Currie 31 spline 9", Caltracks, 15"Prostars.

Offline jiffy

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« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2011, 05:32:39 pm »
Whatever the story - nice looking car, and anyone with a 427SO block with a 428 crank is doing it right in my eyes.

Anyone wanna buy a 2002 Cobra 4.6ltr DOHC/5spd driveline?

Nah, thought not...
Black '69 CJ 4SPD car under construction (425/504)
Black 2002 SVT Cobra - 2003 Terminator Clone (575rwhp/716rwtq - SOLD)
Black ‘63.5 Galaxie 4SPD fastback (just you wait...)

Offline 428 Cobra Jet

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« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2011, 06:35:57 pm »
Quote from: jiffy link=topic=16249.msg163458#msg163458
Whatever the story - nice looking car, and anyone with a 427SO block with a 428 crank is doing it right in my eyes.

Anyone wanna buy a 2002 Cobra 4.6ltr DOHC/5spd driveline?

Nah, thought not...
 What about the webers, surely we can't forget the webers on a FE, let alone a 427 s/o.  Darryl
1970 428 Cobra Jet Mustang, 427 S/O block 428 crank & rods, 4 x 48 IDA Webers, 4 speed Top Loader, 3.89 Traction LOC, Currie 31 spline 9", Caltracks, 15"Prostars.

Offline Pedro

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« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2011, 10:28:10 pm »
Quote from: 428 Cobra Jet link=topic=16249.msg163410#msg163410
Pedro,.....................Well what can we say, it seems you have stirred the pot ...........
Darryl          



Yeah,
Sorry Darryl.
I was so impressed with your car, I thought I'd post it up here for others to admire ...... LOL

Offline 428 Cobra Jet

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« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2011, 10:42:31 am »
Quote from: Pedro link=topic=16249.msg163485#msg163485
Quote from: 428 Cobra Jet link=topic=16249.msg163410#msg163410
Pedro,.....................Well what can we say, it seems you have stirred the pot ...........
Darryl          



Yeah,
Sorry Darryl.
I was so impressed with your car, I thought I'd post it up here for others to admire ...... LOL


Pedo, thanks for the kind thoughts, the car is exceptional and the motor has tuned out to be a bit of a freak. It is a shame that some members carry on the way they do, anyway, I look forward to catching up soon.  Darryl
1970 428 Cobra Jet Mustang, 427 S/O block 428 crank & rods, 4 x 48 IDA Webers, 4 speed Top Loader, 3.89 Traction LOC, Currie 31 spline 9", Caltracks, 15"Prostars.

Offline 68pony

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« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2011, 10:44:38 am »
Quote from: Pedro link=topic=16249.msg163485#msg163485
Quote from: 428 Cobra Jet link=topic=16249.msg163410#msg163410
Pedro,.....................Well what can we say, it seems you have stirred the pot ...........
Darryl          



Yeah,
Sorry Darryl.
I was so impressed with your car, I thought I'd post it up here for others to admire ...... LOL

And we did, its just someone took it the wrong way, a great car, i had a view he didn't agree on so be it, i never said his hp figures were wrong they sound spot on for that set up, i just have a different view on how torque is measured on a chasis dyno thats all.
I wasn't trying to stir the pot, i hope the sale goes good for you its a great looking car and the engine bay looks awesome.
cheers chris.

Offline HEVEN67

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« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2011, 06:14:21 pm »
I admit its quite a neat looking car, do you drive it?
I personally would like to see it go down the quarter and settle this once and for all! (preferably with me driving of course!)
After all as they say "the BS stops when the pedal drops" and by the way thats just a quote I borrowed, that I have to agree on! And I luv this forum, its got some great folks and real carecters, dont blame the forum for being what it is, people make a forum, good bad and wankers alike.
Its a FORUM.
LUVHEV
A successful man is one who makes more money than his wife can spend. A successful woman is one who can find such a man.




Real muscle cars have 3 pedals. Where theres smoke theres Tyres

Offline blackthunder1970

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« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2011, 06:43:42 pm »
hi guys
i am calling bullshit on the torque output
851 at 1750 and i am the pope
post the dyno sheet
it is a very nice car and well built
i was going to stay out of it
but that figure is way out there
double the torque to hp
i have a few fe cars
and had over 25 years experience
barry
1970 brandy wine  427 cammer mach ch 1
1970 blue 428 cj mach 1
1970 blue 428 scj w code mach 1
1970 r code convertible 1 of 12
1970 gt 500 convertible replica
1969 shelby gt500 real one
used to own
2 66 fastbacks
69 boss 302 original paint yellow
69 boss 302 project
69 mach 1 428cj blue
69 mach1 428 scj red auto
69 mach1 428 scj black 4 speed
69 mach 1 351 4v auto
70 mach 428 cj matching number j white stripe
70 mach 1 428 cj grabber orange
70 mach1 428 cj auto white
70 mach1 428 cj auto white fully optioned
70 mach1 428 cj auto yellow original paint should have keep it
70 boss 302

Offline boss 427

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« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2011, 07:40:07 pm »
Quote from: blackthunder1970 link=topic=16249.msg163589#msg163589
hi guys
i am calling bullsh#t on the torque output
851 at 1750 and i am the pope
post the dyno sheet
it is a very nice car and well built
i was going to stay out of it
but that figure is way out there
double the torque to hp
i have a few fe cars
and had over 25 years experience
barry



Barry, Thank you. It makes everything he says unbelievable.
It also makes it very hard for respectable engine builders. He is just making a fool of himself. He must have two, he could not get that silly playing with one.

Offline HEVEN67

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« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2011, 09:54:22 pm »
Barry...or sorry..... your pontiff, your note the pope, I am..

luvhev
A successful man is one who makes more money than his wife can spend. A successful woman is one who can find such a man.




Real muscle cars have 3 pedals. Where theres smoke theres Tyres

Offline 428 Cobra Jet

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« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2011, 08:56:19 am »
Quote from: boss 427 link=topic=16249.msg163600#msg163600
Quote from: blackthunder1970 link=topic=16249.msg163589#msg163589
hi guys
i am calling bullsh#t on the torque output
851 at 1750 and i am the pope
post the dyno sheet
it is a very nice car and well built
i was going to stay out of it
but that figure is way out there
double the torque to hp
i have a few fe cars
and had over 25 years experience
barry


Gees, Barry You hurt my feelings, oh and by the way do I care what you think (I dont think so), why dont you usu me and i'll send you the dyno sheet and the contact details inc ph no. and name of the company who dynoed the car. Barry, maybe you need more than 25 years experience, I know I am always learning with over 35 years in Motorsport.  Darryl  


Barry, Thank you. It makes everything he says unbelievable.
It also makes it very hard for respectable engine builders. He is just making a fool of himself. He must have two, he could not get that silly playing with one.
\
1970 428 Cobra Jet Mustang, 427 S/O block 428 crank & rods, 4 x 48 IDA Webers, 4 speed Top Loader, 3.89 Traction LOC, Currie 31 spline 9", Caltracks, 15"Prostars.

Offline 428 Cobra Jet

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« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2011, 09:03:00 am »
Quote from: boss 427 link=topic=16249.msg163600#msg163600
Quote from: blackthunder1970 link=topic=16249.msg163589#msg163589
hi guys
i am calling bullsh#t on the torque output
851 at 1750 and i am the pope
post the dyno sheet
it is a very nice car and well built
i was going to stay out of it
but that figure is way out there
double the torque to hp
i have a few fe cars
and had over 25 years experience
barry



Barry, Thank you. It makes everything he says unbelievable.
It also makes it very hard for respectable engine builders. He is just making a fool of himself. He must have two, he could not get that silly playing with one.


Boss 427,  Are you stating YOU are a respectable engine builder, because if you were you certainly would not let matters get personal, only small minded fools act in such a childish fashion, grow up Buddy, Read the above comment to Barry, USU me and i'l send the same to you, you might learn to be a bit humble to others acheivments.  Darryl  
1970 428 Cobra Jet Mustang, 427 S/O block 428 crank & rods, 4 x 48 IDA Webers, 4 speed Top Loader, 3.89 Traction LOC, Currie 31 spline 9", Caltracks, 15"Prostars.

Offline 428 Cobra Jet

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« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2011, 09:35:30 am »
Better Still,

Anybody want to look at the dyno figures, see photobucket link, http://s1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff429/greenxr8/ anybody want to check on validity, call Craig at Motocarb on ther number on the dyno sheet. I can't be more honest than that.  To Black Thunder and Boss 427, maybe its time to rethink your responses to other members, who also share a mustang fetish, not everyone is a wanker, not everyone is a fool, but I suggest you be carefull with all of your wisdom.  Darryl
1970 428 Cobra Jet Mustang, 427 S/O block 428 crank & rods, 4 x 48 IDA Webers, 4 speed Top Loader, 3.89 Traction LOC, Currie 31 spline 9", Caltracks, 15"Prostars.

Offline blackthunder1970

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« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2011, 06:26:22 pm »
hi
thanks for showing dyno sheet
lets do the test in top gear (1 to 1) instead of 1.36 and see the true figures
not multiplied by third gear ratio of 1.36
also the high rear gear helps the torque figures
simple maths  862 devided by 1.36 = 633
say if you had 3.25 diff ratio instead of 3.89
3.89 devived by 3.25 =1.19
so 633 devided by 1.19 = 531.9
so a lot of variables come into play
also  what info was programmed into dyno to give the figures
thats were i leaving it at
darryl you have a nice car and well built engine
and best of luck with sale of car :thumb:
barry


 
1970 brandy wine  427 cammer mach ch 1
1970 blue 428 cj mach 1
1970 blue 428 scj w code mach 1
1970 r code convertible 1 of 12
1970 gt 500 convertible replica
1969 shelby gt500 real one
used to own
2 66 fastbacks
69 boss 302 original paint yellow
69 boss 302 project
69 mach 1 428cj blue
69 mach1 428 scj red auto
69 mach1 428 scj black 4 speed
69 mach 1 351 4v auto
70 mach 428 cj matching number j white stripe
70 mach 1 428 cj grabber orange
70 mach1 428 cj auto white
70 mach1 428 cj auto white fully optioned
70 mach1 428 cj auto yellow original paint should have keep it
70 boss 302

Offline Ash

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« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2011, 07:00:42 pm »
Daryl, what clutch are you running is this? What is it like to use and how long has it been in?
"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Kernel Sanders

Offline boss 427

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« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2011, 08:05:35 pm »
Darryl
I agree with Barry. From the photo's it looks like a nice car. Is it a genuine 428 Cobra Jet? If so it is a very cheap car.
The HP figure is pretty acurate, about 480 @ 6200 @ the flywheel.
Realistic torque would be aprox 420 ft/lbs @5100
I used to have an identical engine but with 427 medium riser heads and manifold and a 850DP holley. It produced 580 HP @ 6800 plus a 250 HP shot of nitrous. it was pretty wild in it's day about 38 years ago. The 390 heads, manifold and the Webers would be holding yours back. I think I have said enough on this so I will bow out.

Offline 428 Cobra Jet

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« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2011, 04:45:26 pm »
Quote from: Ash link=topic=16249.msg163969#msg163969
Daryl, what clutch are you running is this? What is it like to use and how long has it been in?


I'ts a Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch/Pressure Plate, plus a Centerforce 30lb Steel Flywheel, this ended up is a really smooth unit, it has been in the car since the engine went in, in 1993, car has 1062ml on the clock currently. However I did fit roller bearings to the clutch mechanism to stop the pedal hanging up as some do, this also made for a very smooth take up of the pedal. I've done this on many street/drag/ bracket race cars in the US in the 80/90s.  Darryl

Darryl    
1970 428 Cobra Jet Mustang, 427 S/O block 428 crank & rods, 4 x 48 IDA Webers, 4 speed Top Loader, 3.89 Traction LOC, Currie 31 spline 9", Caltracks, 15"Prostars.

Offline 428 Cobra Jet

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« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2011, 04:56:23 pm »
Quote from: blackthunder1970 link=topic=16249.msg163966#msg163966
hi
thanks for showing dyno sheet
lets do the test in top gear (1 to 1) instead of 1.36 and see the true figures
not multiplied by third gear ratio of 1.36
also the high rear gear helps the torque figures
simple maths  862 devided by 1.36 = 633
say if you had 3.25 diff ratio instead of 3.89
3.89 devived by 3.25 =1.19
so 633 devided by 1.19 = 531.9
so a lot of variables come into play
also  what info was programmed into dyno to give the figures
thats were i leaving it at
darryl you have a nice car and well built engine
and best of luck with sale of car :thumb:
barry


 
Buddy, the dyno sheet has Gear/Ratio, the ratio dialed in was 3.89, it was not in 3rd gear, we have enough trouble hooking the dam thing up as it is, in 3rd gear we cannot keep it from jumping around even with the diff tied down with 2 x 2500lb staps, and only 16lb in the tyres. (we stretched both straps to a point I bent a rear shock, never seen that before), anyway buddy, you can think what you like, however I suggest you get you nose out of the books and get some practicle experience because you cannot find that in books.   Darryl
1970 428 Cobra Jet Mustang, 427 S/O block 428 crank & rods, 4 x 48 IDA Webers, 4 speed Top Loader, 3.89 Traction LOC, Currie 31 spline 9", Caltracks, 15"Prostars.

Offline 428 Cobra Jet

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« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2011, 05:44:29 pm »
Quote from: boss 427 link=topic=16249.msg163974#msg163974
Darryl
I agree with Barry. From the photo's it looks like a nice car. Is it a genuine 428 Cobra Jet? If so it is a very cheap car.
The HP figure is pretty acurate, about 480 @ 6200 @ the flywheel.
Realistic torque would be aprox 420 ft/lbs @5100
I used to have an identical engine but with 427 medium riser heads and manifold and a 850DP holley. It produced 580 HP @ 6800 plus a 250 HP shot of nitrous. it was pretty wild in it's day about 38 years ago. The 390 heads, manifold and the Webers would be holding yours back. I think I have said enough on this so I will bow out.


You are a fool, you need to call me I'll give you the contact details of 20+ motorsport companies here and overseas  that need to TODAY, just think we can sell all the engine dyno's and just have you tell us the HP and TQ figures on engines you have never seen, let alone know the full engine specificaion to. You truely are a GURU. Secondly how can you even think of comparing a 427 s/o with M/R heads, with a 850 4bl to the engine in question. You certainly have not stroked one, certainly not 38 years ago, what pistons did you use, come on tell us all, because this will certainlty bring you undone.  So do not insult this form with your comparisons buddy, I would certainly like to see a 427 with M/R heads and a 850 4bl that put out 580Hp 38 years ago, I can assure you Holman & Moody, Shelby, Mickey Thompson, and a half dozen other guys were not getting that out of their 427s with a single carby. And that is a fact.

As to the GT 390 heads, manifold and webers would be holding it back, You are truely a fool, how can you write that, you have no idea what porting, polishing & machining work have been done to the heads, you have no idea what they now flow, you have no idea what has been done to the manifold or webers for that matter, more random baseless statements by a guru. You need to take stock buddy, you are making a fool of yourself. I strongly suggest you think before you pervey all of your wisdom on us, I for one have had enough of it.   Darryl  
1970 428 Cobra Jet Mustang, 427 S/O block 428 crank & rods, 4 x 48 IDA Webers, 4 speed Top Loader, 3.89 Traction LOC, Currie 31 spline 9", Caltracks, 15"Prostars.

Offline blackthunder1970

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« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2011, 07:19:18 pm »
hi darryl
the dyno sheet shows third gear
by the way i read books and also have built fe s
i have grown up with 428 cj since i was thirteen
i own 6 fe powered 1970 mach1s
1 with all ali 427 sohc stroker (482 cubics):cool:
1 w code 428 scj  1 0f 26 made
4 428 cj mach1s
i have owned around 15 big block machs
so i think i have learned a thing or 2
barry
s  
1970 brandy wine  427 cammer mach ch 1
1970 blue 428 cj mach 1
1970 blue 428 scj w code mach 1
1970 r code convertible 1 of 12
1970 gt 500 convertible replica
1969 shelby gt500 real one
used to own
2 66 fastbacks
69 boss 302 original paint yellow
69 boss 302 project
69 mach 1 428cj blue
69 mach1 428 scj red auto
69 mach1 428 scj black 4 speed
69 mach 1 351 4v auto
70 mach 428 cj matching number j white stripe
70 mach 1 428 cj grabber orange
70 mach1 428 cj auto white
70 mach1 428 cj auto white fully optioned
70 mach1 428 cj auto yellow original paint should have keep it
70 boss 302

Offline boss 427

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« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2011, 08:16:11 pm »
Quote from: blackthunder1970 link=topic=16249.msg164064#msg164064
hi darryl
the dyno sheet shows third gear
by the way i read books and also have built fe s
i have grown up with 428 cj since i was thirteen
i own 6 fe powered 1970 mach1s
1 with all ali 427 sohc stroker (482 cubics):cool:
1 w code 428 scj  1 0f 26 made
4 428 cj mach1s
i have owned around 15 big block machs
so i think i have learned a thing or 2
barry
s  



Barry
I wouldn't waste my time answering him. He's a wanker.